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Bow to your remaining Tactical Destroyer Overlords

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Hengle Teron Just Another Corp XIV 43324	Posted - 2015.03.20 23:08:26 - [31] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Interesting that the weapons bonuses are 5% damage and 5% ROF for the Jackdaw; as well as 5% ROF and 7.5% tracking speed for the Hecate. Currently, the Confessor is 10% damage and 10% reduced activation cost; and the Svipul is 10% damage and 10% optimal. Are we seeing signs of an early nerf coming to the Confessor and Svipul with these slightly reduced numbers for the Jackdaw and Hecate? What your seeing is called "variety." Whats the point in making 4 different t3 dessies and giving them all exactly the same tactical options? Someone mentioned that images may be released today as well. Did that ever happen? Haven't seen them, and I cant find where I originally read that. So I must have been mistaken. I think they said they'll show the models at Art & graphics panel
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34988	Posted - 2015.03.21 00:07:05 - [32] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: What your seeing is called "variety." Whats the point in making 4 different t3 dessies and giving them all exactly the same tactical options? Same tactical options? How do you figure that. Hengle's post may be spot on and CCP see small missiles/rockets and small hybrids as more powerful than small projectiles and small energy turrets, but the stats aren't related to variety, which comes from the type of weapon bonused, not the level of bonus. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1232	Posted - 2015.03.21 00:13:12 - [33] - Quote BTW, want to touch on this real quick. Now that I've seen the stats, I feel this would apply equally to all four without ruining the concept they represent (which a lot of people are apparently too stupid to wrap their heads around). The three ways that I would nerf Tactical Destroyers. 1. Increase the cooldown of switching modes to 20 seconds. 2. Restrict the ability to fit 10mn prop mods. Just get rid of that completely. 3. Lower the across the board damage bonuses provided by the Tactical Destroyer skill. For number 3, I'd say lower the damage bonus on the Svipul to 7.5% and the damage bonus on the Confessor to 5%. Keep the other bonuses the same. Number 2 can either be done with fitting restrictions or just straight up preventing the modules from being used. Number 1 increases the risk of switching modes, but maintains the ability to change modes relatively quickly. Just my two cents. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 92	Posted - 2015.03.21 00:22:08 - [34] - Quote VERY surprised it's a missile boat! But i'm glad it is
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 66	Posted - 2015.03.21 00:41:25 - [35] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: What your seeing is called "variety." Whats the point in making 4 different t3 dessies and giving them all exactly the same tactical options? Same tactical options? How do you figure that? Hengle's post may be spot on and CCP see small missiles/rockets and small hybrids as more powerful than small projectiles and small energy turrets, but the stats aren't related to variety, which comes from the type of weapon bonused, not the level of bonus. Unless I'm missing something. You seem to be implying that a 10% bonus to one attribute indicates a greater increase in potential than a 5% increase to a different attribute on a different weapon system. The effect per percentage is not relative and implying that the lower % on the newer T3's indicate less potential is therefore invalid. The fact that the bonus applies to different attributes does however create greater tactical variety by assigning different strengths and weaknesses to each hull class. Daemun of Khanid
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 66	Posted - 2015.03.21 00:49:00 - [36] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: BTW, want to touch on this real quick. Now that I've seen the stats, I feel this would apply equally to all four without ruining the concept they represent (which a lot of people are apparently too stupid to wrap their heads around). The three ways that I would nerf Tactical Destroyers. 1. Increase the cooldown of switching modes to 20 seconds. 2. Restrict the ability to fit 10mn prop mods. Just get rid of that completely. 3. Lower the across the board damage bonuses provided by the Tactical Destroyer skill. For number 3, I'd say lower the damage bonus on the Svipul to 7.5% and the damage bonus on the Confessor to 5%. Keep the other bonuses the same. Number 2 can either be done with fitting restrictions or just straight up preventing the modules from being used. Number 1 increases the risk of switching modes, but maintains the ability to change modes relatively quickly. Just my two cents. 1. Would essentially eliminate having the different modes to begin with. Fights don't typically last long enough to make a 20+second cooldown viable. 2. I hate the 10mn fits as well however the only way to restrict them without doing a massive amount of re-coding would be to decrease PG/CPU allocation on each ship which would then also create far too much restriction on other fitting possibilities that don't involve a 10mn. 3. Nothing is wrong with the damage output. It is greater than frigs, lower than cruisers and comparable to dps fit t1/t2 dessies; right where it should be. Especially for a ship that costs 4 times that of a cruiser and takes double the training to fly effectively. Your suggestions would essentially make them useless to fly and pointless to own. Might as well get rid of every ship class but frigates and put everyone in a tormentor. Daemun of Khanid
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1233	Posted - 2015.03.21 01:07:02 - [37] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Ned Thomas wrote: BTW, want to touch on this real quick. Now that I've seen the stats, I feel this would apply equally to all four without ruining the concept they represent (which a lot of people are apparently too stupid to wrap their heads around). The three ways that I would nerf Tactical Destroyers. 1. Increase the cooldown of switching modes to 20 seconds. 2. Restrict the ability to fit 10mn prop mods. Just get rid of that completely. 3. Lower the across the board damage bonuses provided by the Tactical Destroyer skill. For number 3, I'd say lower the damage bonus on the Svipul to 7.5% and the damage bonus on the Confessor to 5%. Keep the other bonuses the same. Number 2 can either be done with fitting restrictions or just straight up preventing the modules from being used. Number 1 increases the risk of switching modes, but maintains the ability to change modes relatively quickly. Just my two cents. 1. Would essentially eliminate having the different modes to begin with. Fights don't typically last long enough to make a 20+second cooldown viable. 2. I hate the 10mn fits as well however the only way to restrict them without doing a massive amount of re-coding would be to decrease PG/CPU allocation on each ship which would then also create far too much restriction on other fitting possibilities that don't involve a 10mn. 3. Nothing is wrong with the damage output. It is greater than frigs, lower than cruisers and comparable to dps fit t1/t2 dessies; right where it should be. Especially for a ship that costs 4 times that of a cruiser and takes double the training to fly effectively. Your suggestions would essentially make them useless to fly and pointless to own. Might as well get rid of every ship class but frigates and put everyone in a tormentor. 1. They flip modes too quickly. I agree with the idea that managing the modes is the proper way to fly these things, and a straight doubling of the cooldown is extreme. But it needs to be lengthened in some way. Fights might not last long enough to make a 20 second cooldown viable (I'd argue that) but they damn sure last long enough to make a 10 second cool down be mildly over effective. 2. Changing the fitting requirements of the ships is too heavy handed. I'd rather 10mn and 100mn prop mods just not be allowed on the hulls. Don't know how difficult that would be on the coding, but if they can restrict a mod from all hulls except a few (micro jump drives, for example), then they should be able to restrict a hull from using a specific mod (let's not talk about the 100mn Tengu ....we're supposed to be in a brave new age here) 3. Reducing the damage puts more focus on micromanaging the modes, and would give more usefulness to the sharpshooter mode as damage application would be a more meaningful choice. Both of those are good things for the ship class without reducing their engagement profile to any great degree. And I say all this as a guy who really only has an interest in flying D3's. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34988	Posted - 2015.03.21 01:16:41 - [38] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: [quote=Scipio Artelius]You seem to be implying that a 10% bonus to one attribute indicates a greater increase in potential than a 5% increase to a different attribute on a different weapon system. That wasn't my intention, though easy to read that into what I wrote. Wording it differently. Svipul: 10% damage bonus to small projectiles Confessor: 10% damage bonus to small energy turrets Fozzie during the game design panel on day 1 of Fanfest, in response to a question about power creep went straight to the current T3 destroyers with a comment about how they are a bit too powerful (not his exact words, but same meaning). Next day the next two T3s are outlined Jackdaw: 5% bonus to damage for small missiles/rockets Hecate: 5% ROF bonus to small hybrid turrets (which is slightly better than 5% damage bonus at expense of cap use) So it was simply a question whether we are seeing early signs of a slight need to the Confessor and Svipul coming, nothing more. There is plenty of variety between the hulls aside from that. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 65	Posted - 2015.03.21 04:14:27 - [39] - Quote Soon the frigates will be used only as role/support ships. ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
Elisk Skyforge Night Raven Task Force Eternal Pretorian Alliance 67	Posted - 2015.03.21 06:59:56 - [40] - Quote So why are they due for release in June and July? that's too late almost a year after the first T3 destroyer.

Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 505	Posted - 2015.03.21 08:28:17 - [41] - Quote Elisk Skyforge wrote: So why are they due for release in June and July? that's too late almost a year after the first T3 destroyer. Likely because they want to release the sov changes around the same time and they have a lot easier to balance T3 dessies when they have a years worth of data to compare but moe likely because art as always already has it's hands full on fitting dreadnought guns to noobships.
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1242	Posted - 2015.03.21 12:40:38 - [42] - Quote Pics or it didn't happen Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1684	Posted - 2015.03.21 12:48:25 - [43] - Quote Only two lows, only 33% bonus speed in propulsion mode with likely a higher base mass and lower base agility... Don't get too hyped too fast, it won't be able to keep up with frigates for long enough to kill them. Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12222	Posted - 2015.03.21 12:50:20 - [44] - Quote Altrue wrote: Only two lows, only 33% bonus speed in propulsion mode with likely a higher base mass and lower base agility... Don't get too hyped too fast, it won't be able to keep up with frigates for long enough to kill them. The Caldari one isn't the one people are freaking out about. It's the Hecate that continues the tradition of Gallente dominance, what with being able to fit probes and enough dps to be a solo pwnmobile. Oh and conceivably structure tank. That ship will be nuts like squirrel dreams. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Arronicus Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1473	Posted - 2015.03.21 12:54:08 - [45] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Ned Thomas wrote: Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Oh my god, they gave it missiles. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? Ugh. The Hecate though...my inner black metal teenager is pleased. Well it was either go missiles for Caldari and Hybrids for Gallente or Hybrids for Caldari and Drones for Gallente. It's not like they were going to give two of them the same weapon system. That'd just be silly. Catalyst+Cormorant, Corax+Talwar, Dragoon+Algos. That's actually the kind of pattern I was expecting again. Ah well, we'll see how they suit up, once we have the full details. I'm pretty sure CCP just didn't want to get burned at the stake like if they made the Hangpaw a rail boat instead of missiles.
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1242	Posted - 2015.03.21 13:16:31 - [46] - Quote Altrue wrote: Only two lows, only 33% bonus speed in propulsion mode with likely a higher base mass and lower base agility... Don't get too hyped too fast, it won't be able to keep up with frigates for long enough to kill them. I'm sure it will find a way. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
Sniper Smith Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 319	Posted - 2015.03.21 17:20:35 - [47] - Quote Only think that I don't like about the Gal one, is the MWD Only bonus. I'd rather a general Propmod bonus, so I can 10mn AB it, like my Confessor :) Caldari one.. 2L.. no.. Also a little light on the DPS too.. And again, as with all missile systems, I RAGE over the fact that hardwires Specific to the Missile Type, unlike Lasers/Projectiles/Hybrids which go for the whole range in that size.. ( Large Hybrid Damage, vs Torp Damage, and Cruise Damage)..
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 324	Posted - 2015.03.21 17:54:15 - [48] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Soon the frigates will be used only as role/support ships. Well those of us who can't afford to pay T3 Destroyer prices for funships won't be abandoning frigates.
Iain Cariaba 1171	Posted - 2015.03.21 17:56:31 - [49] - Quote Altrue wrote: Only two lows, only 33% bonus speed in propulsion mode with likely a higher base mass and lower base agility... Don't get too hyped too fast, it won't be able to keep up with frigates for long enough to kill them. Light missiles in sniper mode... warp in at range, burn away, shred everything moving towards you, then burn back to watch the rest run away. Edit: not every d3 needs to be an in your face brawler. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better.
Nomistrav Aliastra Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2015.03.21 19:22:23 - [50] - Quote Though I supremely doubt they will, I really hope they open up to changing the art assets on the hecate... Thing looks so bland and uninspired to me; betrays a lot of the gallente architecture. It looks like they tried to make it a mix between a catalyst and a nemesis hut failed to give it the charm of either, let alone any typical Gallente flare. Third Place Winner Pod and Planet Fiction Contest YC114

Arthur Aihaken Narada 4154	Posted - 2015.03.21 19:35:34 - [51] - Quote Nomistrav wrote: Though I supremely doubt they will, I really hope they open up to changing the art assets on the hecate... Thing looks so bland and uninspired to me; betrays a lot of the gallente architecture. It looks like they tried to make it a mix between a catalyst and a nemesis hut failed to give it the charm of either, let alone any typical Gallente flare. Surely you jest? The Hecate is a really cool design - probably my favourite. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Droidyk Maniacal Miners INC 76	Posted - 2015.03.21 19:50:56 - [52] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Nomistrav wrote: Though I supremely doubt they will, I really hope they open up to changing the art assets on the hecate... Thing looks so bland and uninspired to me; betrays a lot of the gallente architecture. It looks like they tried to make it a mix between a catalyst and a nemesis hut failed to give it the charm of either, let alone any typical Gallente flare. Surely you jest? The Hecate is a really cool design - probably my favourite. It is indeed awesome, and on the contrary the design fits Gallente in many ways in my opinion.
Sniper Smith Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 322	Posted - 2015.03.21 23:39:41 - [53] - Quote Droidyk wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: Nomistrav wrote: Though I supremely doubt they will, I really hope they open up to changing the art assets on the hecate... Thing looks so bland and uninspired to me; betrays a lot of the gallente architecture. It looks like they tried to make it a mix between a catalyst and a nemesis hut failed to give it the charm of either, let alone any typical Gallente flare. Surely you jest? The Hecate is a really cool design - probably my favourite. It is indeed awesome, and on the contrary the design fits Gallente in many ways in my opinion. Indeed. The Gal are nice in that they don't really have a solid design style. Imicus, Nemesis, Catalyst, Vexor, Megathron, Thanny. Can you find one design element that persists between them? Now excluding Carriers, the only common thread they seem to have is some smooth lines.. Which the Hecate has too. Is it my favorite design? Nope. I actually like the other concept piece for the Gal Dessy -- http://i.imgur.com/1tKWeue.png?2 -- Even if it does have a Tengu-Legion flare.. Also not a fan of how little actually changes, vs the other ones.. And it looks more like it should be a fighter/bomber than a Destroyer.. but with that said, even without a paintjob or anything, if I saw it, my first thought would be that's a Gal ship.
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1260	Posted - 2015.03.22 00:04:35 - [54] - Quote Just wait till they give us SKINs for these things. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
Nomistrav Aliastra Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2015.03.22 09:20:41 - [55] - Quote Droidyk wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: Nomistrav wrote: Though I supremely doubt they will, I really hope they open up to changing the art assets on the hecate... Thing looks so bland and uninspired to me; betrays a lot of the gallente architecture. It looks like they tried to make it a mix between a catalyst and a nemesis hut failed to give it the charm of either, let alone any typical Gallente flare. Surely you jest? The Hecate is a really cool design - probably my favourite. It is indeed awesome, and on the contrary the design fits Gallente in many ways in my opinion. It's a Nemesis without the signature glowy-face plate. It's a Catalyst without the gaps in the frame. It's quite literally two airplane wings bolted together with some little bits that extend upward whenever it changes modes. I think Gallente, I think of the Hyperion, The Megathron, The Vexor, The Tristan. All very unique looking ships that show a sense of beauty as well as militaristic prowess. That's something they had going with their concept sketches and then it looked like someone was drunk out of their mind and pointed to the lamest sketch in the line-up whilst staggering to keep their balance. "Blurggh..... That one... L-looks like it can't fly... How does spaceships fly if they don't has aerodynamics..?" Third Place Winner Pod and Planet Fiction Contest YC114
Fenris Orion Rapid Withdrawal 30	Posted - 2015.03.24 00:37:51 - [56] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Wording it differently. Per level: Svipul: 10% damage bonus to small projectiles Confessor: 10% damage bonus to small energy turrets Next day the next two T3s are outlined Jackdaw: 5% bonus to damage for small missiles/rockets Hecate: 5% ROF bonus to small hybrid turrets (which is slightly better than 5% damage bonus at expense of cap use) So it was simply a question whether we are seeing early signs of a slight nerf to the Confessor and Svipul coming, nothing more. There is plenty of variety between the hulls, which is a good thing. But Hengle may be spot on that energy turrets and projectiles needed additional damage bonuses compared to missiles/rockets and hybrids. I'm afraid you missed the 5% RoF bonus on the Jackdaw, on top of the 5% damage. That leaves only the Hecate to lag behind it's peers by 5% damage per level. Or.... Guess what possibility that leaves available? That's right, there's still a possibility that CCP might sneak 10-20MHz DRONE BANDWIDTH to keep the Gallente Tactical Destroyer in the lead for DPS potential. Like two Comets welded together. Let the tears flow! #LIBERTYorDEATH
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1285	Posted - 2015.03.24 00:46:14 - [57] - Quote If it gets a drone bay, I'll need to buy new tear jars Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
Ila Dace Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 12961	Posted - 2015.03.24 01:16:22 - [58] - Quote Nomistrav wrote: Droidyk wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: Nomistrav wrote: Though I supremely doubt they will, I really hope they open up to changing the art assets on the hecate... Thing looks so bland and uninspired to me; betrays a lot of the gallente architecture. It looks like they tried to make it a mix between a catalyst and a nemesis hut failed to give it the charm of either, let alone any typical Gallente flare. Surely you jest? The Hecate is a really cool design - probably my favourite. It is indeed awesome, and on the contrary the design fits Gallente in many ways in my opinion. It's a Nemesis without the signature glowy-face plate. It's a Catalyst without the gaps in the frame. It's quite literally two airplane wings bolted together with some little bits that extend upward whenever it changes modes. I think Gallente, I think of the Hyperion, The Megathron, The Vexor, The Tristan. All very unique looking ships that show a sense of beauty as well as militaristic prowess. That's something they had going with their concept sketches and then it looked like someone was drunk out of their mind and pointed to the lamest sketch in the line-up whilst staggering to keep their balance. "Blurggh..... That one... L-looks like it can fly... How does spaceships fly if they don't has aerodynamics..?" If the B-Wing bomber and X-Wing fighter had a baby, it'd look like this. If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg But in purple, I'm stunning!
Fenris Orion Rapid Withdrawal 31	Posted - 2015.03.24 01:53:53 - [59] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: If it gets a drone bay, I'll need to buy new tear jars 6x turrets + 25% RoF = Catalyst dps. Eris gets up to 25% RoF but has 7x turrets + 1x launcher. All three of the other Tac-Destroyers get 6x turrets + 50% dps (dmg/RoF) which puts them way over the dps of their T1 counterparts. Conclusion: Hecate will almost CERTAINLY get a drone bay.
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1288	Posted - 2015.03.24 02:00:17 - [60] - Quote Fenris Orion wrote: Ned Thomas wrote: If it gets a drone bay, I'll need to buy new tear jars 6x turrets + 25% RoF = Catalyst dps. Eris gets up to 25% RoF but has 7x turrets + 1x launcher. All three of the other Tac-Destroyers get 6x turrets + 50% dps (dmg/RoF) which puts them way over the dps of their T1 counterparts. Conclusion: Hecate will almost CERTAINLY get a drone bay. I like the way you think. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout



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