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Loging off petinionable or just lame?

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Elliott Manchild omen.	Posted - 2006.10.21 00:22:00 - [31] Originally by: xenodia Originally by: Elliott Manchild Edited by: Elliott Manchild on 20/10/2006 18:11:21 It does need to be sorted. And all the poeple that say use probes. YOU CAN'T! When some1 jumps through a gate, there agro timer (If they have any from the last system) gets reset. Then they log while cloaked. This means that the decloak time (around 30seconds?) still counts down. When they come out of cloak they just sit there for around 10-15seconds then disapppear. EVEN if you have 10000000 points on it. This meaning they don't have aggro so they just disappear and they are GONE no probes will find them. The time from disappearing is around 30-45seconds. You can't get aggro ONCE you are logged off unless you already have it. This is why freighters always live, ive had 2 different freighters do this to me. If I can find it, I'll send you a link to a video of a freighter that tried this on us and then died. The beauty was we found out later he was carrying about 28 billion isk worth of outpost components for his alliance. Well he must of been a noob if you couldn't even log out right ;)
Trinity Faetal Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.21 02:48:00 - [32] oh my gawd, wait a minute, did someoen just say they where trying to kill someone ? OMFg why would ppl try to kill other ppl
ElCholo Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.21 18:14:00 - [33] No, not petitionable, CCP cannot tell players when they can and cant log on/off. Its game mechanics, till the mechanics get changed, live with it. And how did you web/scramble etc if he never uncloaked b4 logging off ???
TriDane Gallente Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.21 18:24:00 - [34] If a ship has 2 warp core stabilizers you need 3 points on him to stop the guy from warping in game. This is also correct if he logs off. If you keep the 3 points on him he will not warp off if you keep the 3 points on him.
Alferd	Posted - 2006.10.21 21:14:00 - [35] Originally by: xenodia Now the problem comes in when they are really devious, and log in every couple minutes and log right back off (which moves them another 1AU in another random direction). This of course makes it impossible to probe them down, and if they do this repeatedly until their 15 minute pvp flag wears off, they can then log off for the night and get off scot free. Maybe not. I experimented with this. I warped to a gate and logged off, then logged on, then off, etc, for several cycles. I wound up each time between 34km and 36km from the gate. So, it would seem that in reality, logging off may be a good escape mechanism or it may not.
Turas Kain Minmatar Dark Moon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.21 21:36:00 - [36] Edited by: Turas Kain on 21/10/2006 21:39:19 Originally by: xenodia Originally by: Sokratesz Yes, you only get flagged if YOU aggro yourself, not when shot upon. Youre confused. There are 2 completely different flags were talking about here. 1st flag (the 1 minute aggression countdown): This one you only get if YOU commit aggression. It prevents you from jumping or docking. 2nd flag (the 15 minute "pvp flag"): Doesnt prevent you from docking or jumping, but DOES prevent your ship from disappearing from space if you log off. You get this one anytime an enemy activates a module or weapon on you. QFT, this is how it works. Unless they log while cloaked. Edit: And even if the person openly admits to logging off. It is a valid tactic and not an exploit if you ask a GM.
Djerin	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Biznachola I scramble, web and start pounding. He logs off imediatelly before even decloaking Cool, i want to be able to target cloaked ships too.
Biznachola	Posted - 2006.10.22 14:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Biznachola I scramble, web and start pounding. He logs off imediatelly before even decloaking Cool, i want to be able to target cloaked ships too. Read the explanation of Elliott Manchild on the first page about the different "timers" involved the situation like this. The "staying cloaked" after jump and the log-off timer in which you ship remains in space before it disapears after you have loged off... It explains pretty clearly
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.10.22 14:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Biznachola I scramble, web and start pounding. He logs off imediatelly before even decloaking Cool, i want to be able to target cloaked ships too. As soon as the cloaked ship logs he will uncloak and begin warping off. u get 30 seconds to kill the person before he simply disapears. if u scramble him then he logs u get 15 minutes until he disapears. This is why freighters often log before decloaking if they run into a gate camp because you need a dam fleet to kill their structure in 30 seconds. DE
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.22 15:07:00 - [40] Edited by: welsh wizard on 22/10/2006 15:10:03 This thread is awfully confused. 1. Logging at a gate is not considered an exploit, petitioning it will likely result in nothing. If theres repeated behaviour the GM's will take a look at it though. We have to deal with it every day. 2. If the target logged before uncloaking, they logged before you could aggro them so they will simpily warp off to a point approximately 1million km from the point at which they logged. They will then dissapear after about 60 seconds (roughly) 3. If you succeeded in aggressing them (or they aggressed you) before they logged off then they will be aggressed for 15minutes. This means that even though they logged off their ship will stay in space approx 1million km from where they logged off. This is when you break your probing covert out and kill their empty ship, the best kind of kills. 4. Being flagged is something else entirely. Flagging only occurs in empire, EG, If you initiate aggression on someone in 0.1 - 10.0 security status space then you will be flagged to your target. They will gain a killright which lasts 30 days, this means they can kill you anywhere in Eve for 30 days with no fear of repercussion from Concord or gate sentry guns. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.10.22 15:27:00 - [41] Originally by: welsh wizard 4. Being flagged is something else entirely. Flagging only occurs in empire, EG, If you initiate aggression on someone in 0.1 - 10.0 security status space then you will be flagged to your target. They will gain a killright which lasts 30 days, this means they can kill you anywhere in Eve for 30 days with no fear of repercussion from Concord or gate sentry guns. Just to clarify if u initiate aggression on someone then u are flagged to be killed for 15 minutes only. the killrights only kicks in if you kill the target without them firing back at you (i think). DE
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.22 15:28:00 - [42] Edited by: welsh wizard on 22/10/2006 15:30:00 Unless its changed I'm sure killrights were gained for merely opening fire. Then again its been a while since Obe so I can't really remember. Maybe you're right? :P You're definitely right about the 15 minute thing which I stupidly forgot to add though. :P Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Biznachola	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:05:00 - [43] Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Biznachola I scramble, web and start pounding. He logs off imediatelly before even decloaking Cool, i want to be able to target cloaked ships too. As soon as the cloaked ship logs he will uncloak and begin warping off. u get 30 seconds to kill the person before he simply disapears. if u scramble him then he logs u get 15 minutes until he disapears. This is why freighters often log before decloaking if they run into a gate camp because you need a dam fleet to kill their structure in 30 seconds. DE Yes. I never said I locked him before he DECLOAKED. He however LOGED OFF before decloaking. His ship appeared and I locked him and shot him... he warped off. I don't carry probes nor have I ever used them. That is beyond the point of can i find him after that. He did it 2 times so it is safe to assume that this is just what he does when he runs in situation like that and it is a repeat behavior... but anyway.. there are always more targets
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.22 18:31:00 - [44] Originally by: Biznachola Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Djerin Originally by: Biznachola I scramble, web and start pounding. He logs off imediatelly before even decloaking Cool, i want to be able to target cloaked ships too. As soon as the cloaked ship logs he will uncloak and begin warping off. u get 30 seconds to kill the person before he simply disapears. if u scramble him then he logs u get 15 minutes until he disapears. This is why freighters often log before decloaking if they run into a gate camp because you need a dam fleet to kill their structure in 30 seconds. DE Yes. I never said I locked him before he DECLOAKED. He however LOGED OFF before decloaking. His ship appeared and I locked him and shot him... he warped off. I don't carry probes nor have I ever used them. That is beyond the point of can i find him after that. He did it 2 times so it is safe to assume that this is just what he does when he runs in situation like that and it is a repeat behavior... but anyway.. there are always more targets In that case he'll just dissapear after about 60 seconds. Frustrating isn't it? Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Jurskjeld Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:35:00 - [45] I'll just say what has been said already a few times... live with it. God forbid CCP would ever do anything to the benefit of pirates as a whole. I see sniping as "lame as hell", you see delogging as "lame as hell". WELL THEN, we kind of disagree. I've yet to see any proper suggestion for actual CHANGE - it's "we don't want this!" rather than "hey, I think we should do this instead". -- Amarr scum be pushing gas, Caldari dogs are kissing their ***. Gallente and Minmatar together stand forever as the holy band.
Sexorella hotz	Posted - 2006.10.22 23:30:00 - [46] So I was pondering a good analogy for what makes logging off so lame, here I go. You're playing a game of chess, and you're getting your ass kicked, and it is clear you're going to lose. So what do you do? Well, the logger would swipe his hand across the board in a fit because he couldn't win and therefore just let the came come to an end, as a child would, no one wins and everyone's worse off for having played the game. The decent player would acknowledge the mistake that put him in the predicament he was in, and realize that logging off is just taking advantage of the game in such a way that he doesn't have to pay for his mistake. I've never logged when i've jumped into a gate camp because it was my fault I jumped into the gate camp. Yes, at that point the odds are clearly against me, but that still doesn't justify taking advantage of game mechanics, the mistake was already made.
Shwehan Juanis	Posted - 2006.10.23 13:00:00 - [47] Getting caught in a gatecamp is lame ? If its lame to get caught in a gatecamp, then how lame are the people populating the gatecamp, waiting for the lamers to get caught ? Gatecamps are a risk, getting caught and not escaping is down to individual skills on either side of the firefight, but to simply start slagging people off for what is an almost permanant occupation in EVE for a lot of 'pierats' seems a little harse. ================================== Yes, I did try warping out - but Ferox's are not known for thier willingness to obey helm controls. ============
oodin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.23 13:43:00 - [48] be careful not to follow him to much.he might petition you for griefing
Belhorn Battlebeard Turbulent	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:08:00 - [49] Originally by: Shwehan Juanis Gatecamps are a risk, getting caught and not escaping is down to individual skills on either side of the firefight Dude, there ARE NO skills involved in logging, any stump with a mouse can click the big cross in the corner of the screen. Gatecamping requires skills such as making sure you have decent Sig Analysis skills to target quick enough, fitting the right amount of SB's etc etc..... as I've said before, if someone was getting mugged in the street, they can't just close their eyes (log) and the attacker goes away. The inability of CCP to petition logging is understandable because, as most have said, it's hard to prove actually what happened... doesn't make it right though. I suspect those with any self-respect will just admit their fate, and the cowards can feel free to log and feel all "good" about themselves, LOL>
Seeker Ash Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.10.23 14:58:00 - [50] Edited by: Seeker Ash on 23/10/2006 14:59:48 Originally by: Sexorella hotz So I was pondering a good analogy for what makes logging off so lame, here I go. You're playing a game of chess, and you're getting your ass kicked, and it is clear you're going to lose. So what do you do? Well, the logger would swipe his hand across the board in a fit because he couldn't win and therefore just let the came come to an end. I think it's more like walking away from the game than ruining it. And remember that when you start a game you don't give your opponent the option of refusing to play. To continue your metaphor, it's like walking up and hitting someone with a chessboard and demand they play and follow rules that you made up yourself - although to be fair you are doing this at a chess tournament. I think it's only fair that the opponent can walk away from you. _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues."
Alferd	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:36:00 - [51] There's a lot of chatter here about how lame you are if you get caught in a gate camp, how you can avoid it if you just use common sense and the "tools" available to you. OK, I can see that's true in the case of a camp on the approach side of a gate. But, so far as I am aware, there is no way to see what's on the other side of the gate. Or is there? If so, please illuminate.
Jenjuan Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:53:00 - [52] I can tell you that when I was going through 0.0 in my Iteron V, I came upon a gate camp and Cloaked, then changed directions. I then waited about a half hour or so and logged in with my Alt to check if the coast was clear, when I saw it was, I then logged in only to find myself in my pod. I never had an aggro timer, (which If I did, I wouldn't be able to Cloak to begin with) and as far as I'm concerned, it's a PERFECTLY JUSTIFIABLE way to avoid getting popped. If you want to fight me when I'm in my HACK or BS, NP you name the place and time and I'll be there. At any rate, I'VE ENTERED A PETITION, to recoup my loss, since I don't feel that I should have been destroyed since I had no Aggro Timer at the time I logged off. [url=http://profile.xfire.com/jenjuan][/url]
Sexorella hotz	Posted - 2006.10.23 20:31:00 - [53] Originally by: Seeker Ash Edited by: Seeker Ash on 23/10/2006 14:59:48 Originally by: Sexorella hotz So I was pondering a good analogy for what makes logging off so lame, here I go. You're playing a game of chess, and you're getting your ass kicked, and it is clear you're going to lose. So what do you do? Well, the logger would swipe his hand across the board in a fit because he couldn't win and therefore just let the came come to an end. I think it's more like walking away from the game than ruining it. And remember that when you start a game you don't give your opponent the option of refusing to play. To continue your metaphor, it's like walking up and hitting someone with a chessboard and demand they play and follow rules that you made up yourself - although to be fair you are doing this at a chess tournament. I think it's only fair that the opponent can walk away from you. Apparently I made the rules of EVE...I never said you couldn't leave the game, I'm just commenting that its lame, unfortunately its not petitionable. On side thought...I think all ships should be left in space a bit longer though...just long enough that a prober can find them, say 5 minutes. The prober would only be able to track him down in that time if he knew exactly where the person logged, such as when he logs to escape. how do all you whiny carebears resolve this issue, you don't jump into gate camps, nuff said. They are easily avoidable.
Sexorella hotz	Posted - 2006.10.23 20:32:00 - [54] Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 23/10/2006 20:34:20 Originally by: Jenjuan I can tell you that when I was going through 0.0 in my Iteron V, I came upon a gate camp and Cloaked, then changed directions. I then waited about a half hour or so and logged in with my Alt to check if the coast was clear, when I saw it was, I then logged in only to find myself in my pod. I never had an aggro timer, (which If I did, I wouldn't be able to Cloak to begin with) and as far as I'm concerned, it's a PERFECTLY JUSTIFIABLE way to avoid getting popped. If you want to fight me when I'm in my HACK or BS, NP you name the place and time and I'll be there. At any rate, I'VE ENTERED A PETITION, to recoup my loss, since I don't feel that I should have been destroyed since I had no Aggro Timer at the time I logged off. Its not about just a fight...its about playing the damn game, and hauling has its risks. Yeah, you're outmatched, maybe you should've done your homework and not popped up in the camp, its that simple...I hope your petition fails. Checking your map along your route is a good way to avoid gate camps, if people and ships are being shot down there, then perhaps its camped? Or even just very treacherous, find another route perhaps? Or wait till the system clears up, or get some friends...its an MMO afterall.
Sexorella hotz	Posted - 2006.10.23 20:35:00 - [55] Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 23/10/2006 20:43:53 Whoops, repeat post
Turas Kain Minmatar Dark Moon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:01:00 - [56] I think we should just remove all weapons from Eve - that way everything would be a lot safer and no one would log.
Seeker Ash Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.10.24 00:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Sexorella hotz Apparently I made the rules of EVE...I never said you couldn't leave the game, I'm just commenting that its lame, unfortunately its not petitionable. To clarify, I'd say you make the rules when you choose the equipment of your ship and when and where to engage your opponent. And seeing as you've probably played a whole lot longer than me it's equalient to stacking your side of the chessboard with 16 queens. Yeah, totally lame for me to not put up with that. (Sarcasm.) _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues."
Jaedar Metron Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.24 09:46:00 - [58] I was happily looking for a kill in my Caracal and found a Skiff on the scanner. I scanned him down to a belt and warped there. I landed 22km's away and got in range for the scrambler a few seconds later. Then I started pounding on him with my missiles. Then he disappeared. :( As I'm fairly noob this would've been a great kill. 30 more seconds and I woulda had him. I wish CCP would increase the time a ships stays if logged off in space to about 5 mins -JM

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