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Do we need more sand?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:48:00 - [1] DEVs tend to say that we need more sand in the EVE sandbox - i want to discuss this because i think we dont need more sand, we need a better game in the sandbox. If you guys remember the days where you played in sandboxes, you also know that you can play a lot of things in a sandbox: - bake sand cake (very boring) - built a sand fortress (ok, but destroying is better) - throw sand at the girls (much better) - play with plastic tanks and soldiers (top) What i want to say is: do we really need more sand or a better game? Do we need more shiptypes and new asteroids and new structures? Or do we need better rules how those can be destroyed? I do not want to flame CCP - i just want this one question discussed: does more sand make a sandbox game better??? From my view it does not improve the game your kids play if you double the m¦ of their sandbox. It¦s ok to have double m¦ sand, but the real fun is the type of game they play. Don¦t get too much into details - this should just be a general discussion about sandboxes. Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Ydyp Ieva Caldari Romarrian Empire	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:52:00 - [2] Let me put it this way: you have your sandbox and are playing in it alone. Enough sand around for you to build your own sandcastle. Now a buddy sees you have fun and joins in, he loves to destroy your sandcastle, so still no complaints here. But now a fully new group joins up and what now, you don't even have the place to move around or build a sandcastle of your own sinse the others have used up all sand. What do you ask for? Indeed more sand ;)
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Ydyp Ieva What do you ask for? Indeed more sand ;) But you should know, who gets the new sand: The big alliances. Solar system defences, POS overhaul, etc. I dont see that much new sand for the average player, that is not a part of a huge alliance(Which sux anyways). The alliances are greedy(Hi LV, ASCN?), and will take all the sand from everybody else, if they can. Yet i look forward to the new exploration, which seem to nerf the big alliances grinding in the complexes.

kieron	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:58:00 - [4] Not only are we trying to give you more sand (8 new regions), but more shovels, buckets and other toys to play with (Tier 2 and 3 ships, contracts, boosters, etc.). The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:00:00 - [5] Originally by: kieron Not only are we trying to give you more sand (8 new regions), but more shovels, buckets and other toys to play with (Tier 2 and 3 ships, contracts, boosters, etc.). The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? I indeed agree that there is comming alot of new sand. But my fear is that the big alliances are kinda trying to get their dirty hands on all this new, and make their part of their sandbox, with their sandcastles, even bigger. How are you gonna make sure, that the average player, will get their share on the sand?
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:01:00 - [6] Originally by: kieron The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? thats the problem nowdays, people seem to want to be directed in games , instead of making them up as they go. / hmm, damn i feel old now sayin that -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Gonada Originally by: kieron The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? thats the problem nowdays, people seem to want to be directed in games , instead of making them up as they go. / hmm, damn i feel old now sayin that Yes, the average WoW player wants that. Its not the case in Eve tho. If you cant handle freedom, you get bored pretty fast.

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:03:00 - [8] I wanted to make a reply involving water and girls, but kieron is sitting to close to me. Trapped in Signature Factory. Send help (but dont kill pandas) - Eris pink Dread

News Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:04:00 - [9] Edited by: News on 20/10/2006 12:04:40 Originally by: Templer Relleg How are you gonna make sure, that the average player, will get their share on the sand? CCP's job is to provide the sand. Who gets to play in it, is entirely up to the players, and what they are willing to do to get their hands on it.
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:07:00 - [10] Edited by: Templer Relleg on 20/10/2006 12:08:59 Originally by: Eris Discordia I wanted to make a reply involving water and girls, but kieron is sitting to close to me. Water and girls? Exotic dancers by any chance? Thats fine. But water tend to have the effect on water, that sandcastels collaps. For instance, when you are building a sandcastle on the beach, and after a few hours, the sea level rises, and all of a sudden, the water hits the sandcastle, and it breaks. That is no good. Oh god, all the hours i have been crying over my sandcastles broke, when i was a kid

Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:07:00 - [11] New toys are always fun but where is the fun when the server acts strange (lag, bugged, whatever)? On the other side, where is the logic behind an expension without no toys or features? A balanced mix of new features and fixed problems comes to mind. Ship lovers click here
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:09:00 - [12] Originally by: News Edited by: News on 20/10/2006 12:04:40 Originally by: Templer Relleg How are you gonna make sure, that the average player, will get their share on the sand? CCP's job is to provide the sand. Who gets to play in it, is entirely up to the players, and what they are willing to do to get their hands on it. But this will make it even better, for big alliances. If they keep doing like this, i guess we will see 5-6 huge alliances, fighting for everything, and eventually the idea of a small corp/alliance, be gone.
Druid R Murder of Crows	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:12:00 - [13] i think the original idea has been missed somewhat. although your are adding more 'sand buckets and spades', the rules with which we can play with them are still the same, the op i think was looking for a change in the style of play, to what im not sure (perhaps nothing - its just a discusion). so not extra content, but a re-look at the mechanics of the game, the rules of the sandbox if u like.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:17:00 - [14] Edited by: Bhaal on 20/10/2006 12:18:34 Problem is, the sand density is to great for effective game play. The sandbox needs to be redesigned IMO before more sand or plastic shovels are added. It's like someone stuck in a few Quick-Crete bags & some water, now the sand is too hard and our plastic shovels break when we try to dig into the sand... Making the sides of the sandbox taller only solves the density crisis for so long, eventually after more sand is added, the sides will need to be increased in height once again, eventually making the sides too tall for the kids to even see the sand, let alone climb into the box and play... CCP needs to think outside the sandbox for the longevity of this game... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Badhan	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Eris Discordia I wanted to make a reply involving water and girls, but kieron is sitting to close to me. Don't let Kieron bully you say what you want to say!
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:29:00 - [16] Actually i agree with Lifewire here. How about working on the professions abit more. Pirates, Bounty Hunters, Producers desperately need work and chances to get income. Various serious combat flaws like agression timers and logging off need desperate fixing. A huge balance patch needs to be made quickly(ish) to fix long overdue weapon issues (for all races) and problems with Electronic warfare. Some existing ships need looking at because they are underused, bellicose or logistic ships anyone ? Lowsec and 0.0 Space need more population, a new exodus drive must be found to fill those areas and hence offer more drama and combat to eve. Currently highsec is just too fat and filled. All the above and i guess many more stuff needs fixing. Fixing which no new toys will overshadow because some of the issues simply ruin the gaming experience no matter if youre in a t1 frig, a carrier or a shiney t2 ship.

Oveur	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:32:00 - [17] How more philosophical can you get. I'm just waiting for someone to say "There is no sand" "Think outside the sandbox" would actually be quite close. Anyways, whether you are looking for new rules for the sandbox, more sand or uhm ... bikinis, we're doing all of it regularly. Kali 2 will for example have lots of new "rules" changed in warfare, more sand to work with these new rules and we'll put in some bikinis and volley balls too. Senior Producer EVE Online


Oveur	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Kcel Chim Actually i agree with Lifewire here. How about working on the professions abit more. Pirates, Bounty Hunters, Producers desperately need work and chances to get income. Various serious combat flaws like agression timers and logging off need desperate fixing. A huge balance patch needs to be made quickly(ish) to fix long overdue weapon issues (for all races) and problems with Electronic warfare. Some existing ships need looking at because they are underused, bellicose or logistic ships anyone ? Lowsec and 0.0 Space need more population, a new exodus drive must be found to fill those areas and hence offer more drama and combat to eve. Currently highsec is just too fat and filled. All the above and i guess many more stuff needs fixing. Fixing which no new toys will overshadow because some of the issues simply ruin the gaming experience no matter if youre in a t1 frig, a carrier or a shiney t2 ship. Let's analyze what you just said: How about working on the professions abit more. Pirates, Bounty Hunters, Producers desperately need work and chances to get income. We are. Producers, Harvesters, Researchers, Explorers, Archeologists, Hackers, Pirates (through tracking down explorers) are all getting worked on in Kali 1. Don't forget shipwreck Salvaging. Various serious combat flaws like agression timers and logging off need desperate fixing. We're working on it, the solution isn't just that simple without affecting the whole playerbase because these rules do indeed affect everyone. A huge balance patch needs to be made quickly(ish) to fix long overdue weapon issues (for all races) and problems with Electronic warfare. Some existing ships need looking at because they are underused, bellicose or logistic ships anyone ? You should really check out Kali 1 balancing changes. Lowsec and 0.0 Space need more population, a new exodus drive must be found to fill those areas and hence offer more drama and combat to eve. Currently highsec is just too fat and filled. Enters Kali 1 with Combat Boosters, COSMOS Constellations, 8 new regions, Exploration ("the fat is out there"), Salvaging (boy, them fleet battle fields will be juicy) and Contracts. All the above and i guess many more stuff needs fixing. Fixing which no new toys will overshadow because some of the issues simply ruin the gaming experience no matter if youre in a t1 frig, a carrier or a shiney t2 ship. You should read up more on what's coming, that's all I can say. Senior Producer EVE Online

FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:38:00 - [19] There was once a sandpit at the school I was at. But too many cats used it for 'cat business' and they had to fill it in with concrete. Toxoplasmosis is a wonderful thing. As far as sandboxes go. Everyone loves more sand (except when that sand is the size of the Sahara and you've just survived a plane crash). It's be nice to have more sand and more toys. I mean, one time we were all using those little buckets shaped like a castle to make our sandcastles; and this kid came along with one shaped like a rubber duckie, man that was cool. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:39:00 - [20] Edited by: Eilie on 20/10/2006 12:41:09 There is no sand.

Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Oveur Anyways, whether you are looking for new rules for the sandbox, more sand or uhm ... bikinis, we're doing all of it regularly. Kali 2 will for example have lots of new "rules" changed in warfare, more sand to work with these new rules and we'll put in some bikinis and volley balls too. Im looking forward to that
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Eilie There is no sand. Think outside the sandbox. I have a suggestion! We need to stop all those whining minmatar bastwards, and remove their projectile gun, and give them... Sand cannons!
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:42:00 - [23] Just responding on something lifewire and Oveur just spoke about... "getting people into 0.0". New resions, new complexes, new toys won't get 'more' people out into 0.0. It will just encourage alliances to have a tighter grip on them. Hopefully though the sovreignity changes in Kali1 will. I'm hoping it'll encourage alliances to have a righter grip on smaller regions of space. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Templer Relleg Originally by: Eilie There is no sand. Think outside the sandbox. I have a suggestion! We need to stop all those whining minmatar bastwards, and remove their projectile gun, and give them... Sand cannons! Hey hey. I love minmatar! I don't whine! It's the amarr that whine too much. Maybe now they'll ask for sand lasers that do explosive damage!
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:45:00 - [25] Originally by: FireFoxx80 New resions, new complexes, new toys won't get 'more' people out into 0.0. It will just encourage alliances to have a tighter grip on them. EXACTLY my point. Small players will have no influence on all this new 0.0 stuff, as alliances will have such a HUGE grip on the resources and systems, that small players will have no chance. It will only make more players join huge alliances, and thus more blobs.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:46:00 - [26] Sorry oveur if my opinions offended you. No need to get all defensive about it. The professions you named are mostly splitoffs of the existing Agent profession, no ? For pirating a "ransom" ability would be cool or an improvement to scan cargoholds quicker / without a mod. This way mindless killing would simply be downgraded and pirates could go for "real loot". Ontop Npc convoys should be reestablished so there would be even a "pirate vs npcs" possibility open. As for the rest of your post. It is a damn great thing if you put all of that stuff into Kali and ill be well on my toes to test and experience it. But I and many others feel that youre delaying important fixes or workarounds far too long. Its nice to know that ull one day look at ECM or Projectiles but up to that day my gameplay is borked if im minmatar (or whatever race is waiting on this and that) specced. Just look how long it takes to "fix poses" and especially the lag surrounding them. Its been there for 6 months atleast. Same applies to various other known issues which need urgent fixing not because i want to point fingers or because i think ure slacking or because ive doubts that kali will be anything less then a blast but because they make often enough the game less enjoyable "right now".
Druid R Murder of Crows	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:47:00 - [27] for the new allainces, get yourself a sniper ship (if they havent been nerfed too badly) and get on the gates going into them, fire at all the haulers carrying in pos's to claim space, scoop and enjoy
Isyel Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Templer Relleg Originally by: Eilie There is no sand. Think outside the sandbox. I have a suggestion! We need to stop all those whining minmatar bastwards, and remove their projectile gun, and give them... Sand cannons! Yay! So we can shoot you caldari and your delicate electronic components with wet sand! Bring it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Originally by: Jim McGregor All the nodes are belong to us!
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:53:00 - [29] More sand = more subscribers = more profit. I think that is what we're finding out... The kids in the sandbox will put up with whatever toys are there, mainly because there is only one sandbox right now... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
darklegionca	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:11:00 - [30] Wait theres sand in space i demand to see a pic of this or i call hacks on joo darklegionca - One name. One legend.



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