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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:48:00 - [1] DEVs tend to say that we need more sand in the EVE sandbox - i want to discuss this because i think we dont need more sand, we need a better game in the sandbox. If you guys remember the days where you played in sandboxes, you also know that you can play a lot of things in a sandbox: - bake sand cake (very boring) - built a sand fortress (ok, but destroying is better) - throw sand at the girls (much better) - play with plastic tanks and soldiers (top) What i want to say is: do we really need more sand or a better game? Do we need more shiptypes and new asteroids and new structures? Or do we need better rules how those can be destroyed? I do not want to flame CCP - i just want this one question discussed: does more sand make a sandbox game better??? From my view it does not improve the game your kids play if you double the m¦ of their sandbox. It¦s ok to have double m¦ sand, but the real fun is the type of game they play. Don¦t get too much into details - this should just be a general discussion about sandboxes. Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Ydyp Ieva Caldari Romarrian Empire	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:52:00 - [2] Let me put it this way: you have your sandbox and are playing in it alone. Enough sand around for you to build your own sandcastle. Now a buddy sees you have fun and joins in, he loves to destroy your sandcastle, so still no complaints here. But now a fully new group joins up and what now, you don't even have the place to move around or build a sandcastle of your own sinse the others have used up all sand. What do you ask for? Indeed more sand ;)
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Ydyp Ieva What do you ask for? Indeed more sand ;) But you should know, who gets the new sand: The big alliances. Solar system defences, POS overhaul, etc. I dont see that much new sand for the average player, that is not a part of a huge alliance(Which sux anyways). The alliances are greedy(Hi LV, ASCN?), and will take all the sand from everybody else, if they can. Yet i look forward to the new exploration, which seem to nerf the big alliances grinding in the complexes.

kieron	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:58:00 - [4] Not only are we trying to give you more sand (8 new regions), but more shovels, buckets and other toys to play with (Tier 2 and 3 ships, contracts, boosters, etc.). The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:00:00 - [5] Originally by: kieron Not only are we trying to give you more sand (8 new regions), but more shovels, buckets and other toys to play with (Tier 2 and 3 ships, contracts, boosters, etc.). The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? I indeed agree that there is comming alot of new sand. But my fear is that the big alliances are kinda trying to get their dirty hands on all this new, and make their part of their sandbox, with their sandcastles, even bigger. How are you gonna make sure, that the average player, will get their share on the sand?
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:01:00 - [6] Originally by: kieron The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? thats the problem nowdays, people seem to want to be directed in games , instead of making them up as they go. / hmm, damn i feel old now sayin that -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Gonada Originally by: kieron The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? thats the problem nowdays, people seem to want to be directed in games , instead of making them up as they go. / hmm, damn i feel old now sayin that Yes, the average WoW player wants that. Its not the case in Eve tho. If you cant handle freedom, you get bored pretty fast.

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:03:00 - [8] I wanted to make a reply involving water and girls, but kieron is sitting to close to me. Trapped in Signature Factory. Send help (but dont kill pandas) - Eris pink Dread

News Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:04:00 - [9] Edited by: News on 20/10/2006 12:04:40 Originally by: Templer Relleg How are you gonna make sure, that the average player, will get their share on the sand? CCP's job is to provide the sand. Who gets to play in it, is entirely up to the players, and what they are willing to do to get their hands on it.
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:07:00 - [10] Edited by: Templer Relleg on 20/10/2006 12:08:59 Originally by: Eris Discordia I wanted to make a reply involving water and girls, but kieron is sitting to close to me. Water and girls? Exotic dancers by any chance? Thats fine. But water tend to have the effect on water, that sandcastels collaps. For instance, when you are building a sandcastle on the beach, and after a few hours, the sea level rises, and all of a sudden, the water hits the sandcastle, and it breaks. That is no good. Oh god, all the hours i have been crying over my sandcastles broke, when i was a kid
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:07:00 - [11] New toys are always fun but where is the fun when the server acts strange (lag, bugged, whatever)? On the other side, where is the logic behind an expension without no toys or features? A balanced mix of new features and fixed problems comes to mind. Ship lovers click here
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:09:00 - [12] Originally by: News Edited by: News on 20/10/2006 12:04:40 Originally by: Templer Relleg How are you gonna make sure, that the average player, will get their share on the sand? CCP's job is to provide the sand. Who gets to play in it, is entirely up to the players, and what they are willing to do to get their hands on it. But this will make it even better, for big alliances. If they keep doing like this, i guess we will see 5-6 huge alliances, fighting for everything, and eventually the idea of a small corp/alliance, be gone.
Druid R Murder of Crows	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:12:00 - [13] i think the original idea has been missed somewhat. although your are adding more 'sand buckets and spades', the rules with which we can play with them are still the same, the op i think was looking for a change in the style of play, to what im not sure (perhaps nothing - its just a discusion). so not extra content, but a re-look at the mechanics of the game, the rules of the sandbox if u like.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:17:00 - [14] Edited by: Bhaal on 20/10/2006 12:18:34 Problem is, the sand density is to great for effective game play. The sandbox needs to be redesigned IMO before more sand or plastic shovels are added. It's like someone stuck in a few Quick-Crete bags & some water, now the sand is too hard and our plastic shovels break when we try to dig into the sand... Making the sides of the sandbox taller only solves the density crisis for so long, eventually after more sand is added, the sides will need to be increased in height once again, eventually making the sides too tall for the kids to even see the sand, let alone climb into the box and play... CCP needs to think outside the sandbox for the longevity of this game... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Badhan	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Eris Discordia I wanted to make a reply involving water and girls, but kieron is sitting to close to me. Don't let Kieron bully you say what you want to say!
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:29:00 - [16] Actually i agree with Lifewire here. How about working on the professions abit more. Pirates, Bounty Hunters, Producers desperately need work and chances to get income. Various serious combat flaws like agression timers and logging off need desperate fixing. A huge balance patch needs to be made quickly(ish) to fix long overdue weapon issues (for all races) and problems with Electronic warfare. Some existing ships need looking at because they are underused, bellicose or logistic ships anyone ? Lowsec and 0.0 Space need more population, a new exodus drive must be found to fill those areas and hence offer more drama and combat to eve. Currently highsec is just too fat and filled. All the above and i guess many more stuff needs fixing. Fixing which no new toys will overshadow because some of the issues simply ruin the gaming experience no matter if youre in a t1 frig, a carrier or a shiney t2 ship.

Oveur	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:32:00 - [17] How more philosophical can you get. I'm just waiting for someone to say "There is no sand" "Think outside the sandbox" would actually be quite close. Anyways, whether you are looking for new rules for the sandbox, more sand or uhm ... bikinis, we're doing all of it regularly. Kali 2 will for example have lots of new "rules" changed in warfare, more sand to work with these new rules and we'll put in some bikinis and volley balls too. Senior Producer EVE Online


Oveur	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Kcel Chim Actually i agree with Lifewire here. How about working on the professions abit more. Pirates, Bounty Hunters, Producers desperately need work and chances to get income. Various serious combat flaws like agression timers and logging off need desperate fixing. A huge balance patch needs to be made quickly(ish) to fix long overdue weapon issues (for all races) and problems with Electronic warfare. Some existing ships need looking at because they are underused, bellicose or logistic ships anyone ? Lowsec and 0.0 Space need more population, a new exodus drive must be found to fill those areas and hence offer more drama and combat to eve. Currently highsec is just too fat and filled. All the above and i guess many more stuff needs fixing. Fixing which no new toys will overshadow because some of the issues simply ruin the gaming experience no matter if youre in a t1 frig, a carrier or a shiney t2 ship. Let's analyze what you just said: How about working on the professions abit more. Pirates, Bounty Hunters, Producers desperately need work and chances to get income. We are. Producers, Harvesters, Researchers, Explorers, Archeologists, Hackers, Pirates (through tracking down explorers) are all getting worked on in Kali 1. Don't forget shipwreck Salvaging. Various serious combat flaws like agression timers and logging off need desperate fixing. We're working on it, the solution isn't just that simple without affecting the whole playerbase because these rules do indeed affect everyone. A huge balance patch needs to be made quickly(ish) to fix long overdue weapon issues (for all races) and problems with Electronic warfare. Some existing ships need looking at because they are underused, bellicose or logistic ships anyone ? You should really check out Kali 1 balancing changes. Lowsec and 0.0 Space need more population, a new exodus drive must be found to fill those areas and hence offer more drama and combat to eve. Currently highsec is just too fat and filled. Enters Kali 1 with Combat Boosters, COSMOS Constellations, 8 new regions, Exploration ("the fat is out there"), Salvaging (boy, them fleet battle fields will be juicy) and Contracts. All the above and i guess many more stuff needs fixing. Fixing which no new toys will overshadow because some of the issues simply ruin the gaming experience no matter if youre in a t1 frig, a carrier or a shiney t2 ship. You should read up more on what's coming, that's all I can say. Senior Producer EVE Online

FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:38:00 - [19] There was once a sandpit at the school I was at. But too many cats used it for 'cat business' and they had to fill it in with concrete. Toxoplasmosis is a wonderful thing. As far as sandboxes go. Everyone loves more sand (except when that sand is the size of the Sahara and you've just survived a plane crash). It's be nice to have more sand and more toys. I mean, one time we were all using those little buckets shaped like a castle to make our sandcastles; and this kid came along with one shaped like a rubber duckie, man that was cool. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:39:00 - [20] Edited by: Eilie on 20/10/2006 12:41:09 There is no sand.
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Oveur Anyways, whether you are looking for new rules for the sandbox, more sand or uhm ... bikinis, we're doing all of it regularly. Kali 2 will for example have lots of new "rules" changed in warfare, more sand to work with these new rules and we'll put in some bikinis and volley balls too. Im looking forward to that
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Eilie There is no sand. Think outside the sandbox. I have a suggestion! We need to stop all those whining minmatar bastwards, and remove their projectile gun, and give them... Sand cannons!
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:42:00 - [23] Just responding on something lifewire and Oveur just spoke about... "getting people into 0.0". New resions, new complexes, new toys won't get 'more' people out into 0.0. It will just encourage alliances to have a tighter grip on them. Hopefully though the sovreignity changes in Kali1 will. I'm hoping it'll encourage alliances to have a righter grip on smaller regions of space. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Templer Relleg Originally by: Eilie There is no sand. Think outside the sandbox. I have a suggestion! We need to stop all those whining minmatar bastwards, and remove their projectile gun, and give them... Sand cannons! Hey hey. I love minmatar! I don't whine! It's the amarr that whine too much. Maybe now they'll ask for sand lasers that do explosive damage!
Templer Relleg Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:45:00 - [25] Originally by: FireFoxx80 New resions, new complexes, new toys won't get 'more' people out into 0.0. It will just encourage alliances to have a tighter grip on them. EXACTLY my point. Small players will have no influence on all this new 0.0 stuff, as alliances will have such a HUGE grip on the resources and systems, that small players will have no chance. It will only make more players join huge alliances, and thus more blobs.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:46:00 - [26] Sorry oveur if my opinions offended you. No need to get all defensive about it. The professions you named are mostly splitoffs of the existing Agent profession, no ? For pirating a "ransom" ability would be cool or an improvement to scan cargoholds quicker / without a mod. This way mindless killing would simply be downgraded and pirates could go for "real loot". Ontop Npc convoys should be reestablished so there would be even a "pirate vs npcs" possibility open. As for the rest of your post. It is a damn great thing if you put all of that stuff into Kali and ill be well on my toes to test and experience it. But I and many others feel that youre delaying important fixes or workarounds far too long. Its nice to know that ull one day look at ECM or Projectiles but up to that day my gameplay is borked if im minmatar (or whatever race is waiting on this and that) specced. Just look how long it takes to "fix poses" and especially the lag surrounding them. Its been there for 6 months atleast. Same applies to various other known issues which need urgent fixing not because i want to point fingers or because i think ure slacking or because ive doubts that kali will be anything less then a blast but because they make often enough the game less enjoyable "right now".
Druid R Murder of Crows	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:47:00 - [27] for the new allainces, get yourself a sniper ship (if they havent been nerfed too badly) and get on the gates going into them, fire at all the haulers carrying in pos's to claim space, scoop and enjoy
Isyel Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Templer Relleg Originally by: Eilie There is no sand. Think outside the sandbox. I have a suggestion! We need to stop all those whining minmatar bastwards, and remove their projectile gun, and give them... Sand cannons! Yay! So we can shoot you caldari and your delicate electronic components with wet sand! Bring it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Originally by: Jim McGregor All the nodes are belong to us!
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:53:00 - [29] More sand = more subscribers = more profit. I think that is what we're finding out... The kids in the sandbox will put up with whatever toys are there, mainly because there is only one sandbox right now... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
darklegionca	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:11:00 - [30] Wait theres sand in space i demand to see a pic of this or i call hacks on joo darklegionca - One name. One legend.
Ryan Scouse'UK	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:31:00 - [31] With all the new changes , starter corps / empire is still safe for the carebears yes ? Some of us just want to fly around in are Faction BS kill a few Rats throw snowballs & call it day , am to lazy to pvp 24/7
Rab	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:32:00 - [32] 0.0 - where the sand has been blowtorched by alliances into glass palaces, fragile and yet never returned to that raw sandiness, however much you shatter them, more survive and are burned in. Low sec : Where the sand has crabs, play but expect itches. Empire space: full of people that want to play with Kindergarten sand. Always fairly clean, never anything too scary under the surface, except in that Jita corner where lizards lurk. At least there is some sand for most people, more is what everyone wants, providing its for them. Sand for others is not a common cry from protestors. - In an infinite universe, everything is definite. -
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:32:00 - [33] WTF? This topic is a DEV-post spawn!!! More sand is good, no doubt. But we all know that you can play boring games in a sandbox like sand cake baking (Jita sandbox). From my view new ships for example is just "more sand". While salvaging is a new rule and a real game improvement! It is good that the DEVs at least bring 1 really good new improvement with Kali. I just wonder why every patch in the last 3 years has so much "sand-focus". What we need is better rules how plastic soldier A can kill plastic soldier B. Or rules why plastic soldier team A should have 4000 soldiers, while platic soldier team B has only 10. We need rules how tank A can hit tank B on 150 cm. Or we need rules for destroying a sand fortress. And we need to handle plastic soldier thieves, because the whole game is crap if one of the kids just plays it to steal other kids plastic soldiers by cheating. Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Aqautica	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:51:00 - [34] Everytime I go near sand it gets in places I can only dream of!!!! or in my sandwhiches
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.20 14:09:00 - [35] Originally by: Templer Relleg Originally by: FireFoxx80 New resions, new complexes, new toys won't get 'more' people out into 0.0. It will just encourage alliances to have a tighter grip on them. EXACTLY my point. Small players will have no influence on all this new 0.0 stuff, as alliances will have such a HUGE grip on the resources and systems, that small players will have no chance. It will only make more players join huge alliances, and thus more blobs. Argh someone from BoB kicked sand into my eyes! staggers around in blind agony, treading on a few sandcastles I suspect that alliances will have to take more people on in order to strengthen their grip on resources; we'll see that constellation/region control requiring huge amounts of resources in order to reap their benefits; and hence the end of monolithic alliances. So this will open up space for more people, but they will be the 'have nots' with regards to these new resources. Unless they have the military muscle to take a piece of the pie. Oops, went of the sand analogy there a little. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:04:00 - [36] Quote: 0.0 - where the sand has been blowtorched by alliances into glass palaces, fragile and yet never returned to that raw sandiness, however much you shatter them, more survive and are burned in. Low sec : Where the sand has crabs, play but expect itches. Empire space: full of people that want to play with Kindergarten sand. Always fairly clean, never anything too scary under the surface, except in that Jita corner where lizards lurk. At least there is some sand for most people, more is what everyone wants, providing its for them. Sand for others is not a common cry from protestors. I agree that EVE has not only 1, more like 3 sandboxes: hgh sec, low sec and 0.0. But the question was more about if we need more sand in these 3 boxes or better and new rules for the games that are played in these 3. Lets pick high sec as example - is it good how in this low risk sandbox the industrial players create hubs like Jita? Instead of adding new items to produce, wouldnt it be wiser to do something against the high sec hub problem? Or lets take a look at 0.0 - is it fun to shoot a POS for hours and then have the node crash when the defenders come with 300 ships? Instead of adding new structures, wouldnt it be wiser to fix the blob problems? Now we got into details - wich is bad, because i just want this one question to be discussed: more sand or more and better rules? Our DEVs that we pay have a limited time to code new stuff - what should be done? New sand or better rules? From my view improving the game (i dont talk of bugs, i talk of general balancing and the CCP dream to get a player driven universe) is much more important than some new ships, more mission types and 8 new regions. We get a $hitload of "sand" in Kali, really a $hitload! But will it improve the game and make me think: wow, this roxors! I want to play EVE 23/7!!! Sorry, but i am not sure... Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Lifewire - bake sand cake (very boring) - built a sand fortress (ok, but destroying is better) - throw sand at the girls (much better) - play with plastic tanks and soldiers (top) Best analogy ever. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:15:00 - [38] Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 20/10/2006 17:14:52 /me signs. More sand is allways welcome but frankly to make a sand castle the sand must be of such quality that it can be done. Cant be to dry nor to wet.
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:17:00 - [39] Sand doesn't lag when you try to crush your buddy's castle. ---
Amira Silvermist Ubiqua Seraph	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:46:00 - [40] Originally by: Oveur more sand or uhm ... bikinis Ah! More bikinis is always a good thing but remember: "Less is sometimes more"
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:47:00 - [41] I like more sand to play with except when tux drops a water bomb on my castle
Victor Valka Caldari Terra Incognita	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:55:00 - [42] Originally by: Amira Silvermist Originally by: Oveur more sand or uhm ... bikinis Ah! More bikinis is always a good thing but remember: "Less is sometimes more" Words of wisdom! Words of wisdom!
Ilya Murametz Caldari Hybonashi Industries	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:19:00 - [43] Edited by: Ilya Murametz on 20/10/2006 19:21:40 Originally by: kieron Not only are we trying to give you more sand (8 new regions), but more shovels, buckets and other toys to play with (Tier 2 and 3 ships, contracts, boosters, etc.). The rest is up to you. What games do you want to play with the new toys and greater volume? More sand that a neighbors dogs relieved it self on and more broken shovels and buckets with holes and other not so functional toys does not in reality make things better, some of us "kids" would rather have one shovel that works and a bucket that does not leak... now theres an idea Translation = .....fix before feature gents. _____________________________________________ Originally by: some nub ..aka recovering WoW person What lvl can I start PvP ?
Viqer Fell Minmatar Trinity Nova	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:27:00 - [44] Edited by: Viqer Fell on 20/10/2006 19:29:20 I think from my perspective what I would like to see is not more sand or less sand or indeed even different sand. You see i do read the blogs Oveur so I know what you are trying to do to fix things and don't get me wrong I am in no way suggesting that you are doing anything less than your utmost to fix matters. The thing is that EvE really caught my imagination. 3 1/2 years ago i'd never even played an MMORPG or any variation thereof. Along comes Eve and for some reason it caught my eye like neverquest etc really didnt. I met some great people and between us we have had, i like to think, a real positive effect on the games RP aspects albeit less so in the last 6 months or so since we took a less active rp role. I am not ashamed to say that Eve has taken a huge amount of my life and it has been a love/hate relationship in many ways affecting both my fiance, my family, my job etc. I always joked that I'd be the last person to switch off the lights when they close the servers down and sadly i am probably not far off. I have the T-shirts, the CCG, the posters and heck lets face it the only reason I've not made the fanfests is that I've sold my soul buying store stuff through the years. But to get back to the point I would like to see it so that when you decide to play in your sandbox the sand doesn't take some random time between "instant & unlikely to reply ever" to your instructions. When we were approaching Castor and the server used to die at around 11k people we all were astounded when castor and its associated hardware rolled out and we saw 15k and no lag "mainly". but quickly we hit 18-20k and lag returned. It seems that the hardware in Eve is always just enough to cope and always 3 months after its needed. The server right now is in some areas brilliant and in others frankly a waste of logging in. with the new hardware i imagine that the game will become playable everywhere again. But for how long? It seems the upgrades only bring capacity back to a sliver above what is needed. I think the shame is that i know that what i want from ccp is unattainable. Because what i want is a lag free server that can handle any demand. Real life dictates that this cannot happen because it would mean having far too much extra and wasted capacity on the server because real life demands will mean that ccp accept that at certain points they cannot meet demand no matter how much they'd like it otherwise. I think the danger of talking about sandboxes and what we want out of them (from my perspective as a +three year old player ) is that we dream of the day when the sandbox is not only free but where it is infinitely wide and can serve every sand related desire. That we want not only sand castles but sand aeroplanes and sand submarines and perfect sand economy's and for that matter we want to be secure in the knowledge that people cheating by wetting the sand will be punished but instantly and without recourse but that those that were just caught playing with their wet sand " caused by the rain " will be safe from the banstick. We not only want sand physics to be great we want sand that actually feels fun, we want to not only enjoy the look of those sand aeroplanes but we want them to fricking damn well fly too and god forbid the economist who tells us that its not feasible just yet. Sad thing is I suspect many of you feel the same way in that no matter how much new sand we get we just want the existing sand to perform better but we'll still enjoy the new sand and we'll still curse the sand providers for getting their priorities wrong but we trust in them to eventually get the perfect sandbox designed and we all want to have sandbox access rights at that moment. Click here to visit our site
Madorthene	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:29:00 - [45] Where is the sand, man? Aren't we all, in the end, sand? Totally. We need to get more peace into the box to make way for the cosmic sand that brings happiness. Oh, and the walls of the sandbox could use strengthening, to stop node crashes.
Ilya Murametz Caldari Hybonashi Industries	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Viqer Fell Edited by: Viqer Fell on 20/10/2006 19:29:20 I think from my perspective what I would like to see is not more sand or less sand or indeed even different sand. You see i do read the blogs Oveur so I know what you are trying to do to fix things and don't get me wrong I am in no way suggesting that you are doing anything less than your utmost to fix matters. The thing is that EvE really caught my imagination. 3 1/2 years ago i'd never even played an MMORPG or any variation thereof. Along comes Eve and for some reason it caught my eye like neverquest etc really didnt. I met some great people and between us we have had, i like to think, a real positive effect on the games RP aspects albeit less so in the last 6 months or so since we took a less active rp role. I am not ashamed to say that Eve has taken a huge amount of my life and it has been a love/hate relationship in many ways affecting both my fiance, my family, my job etc. I always joked that I'd be the last person to switch off the lights when they close the servers down and sadly i am probably not far off. I have the T-shirts, the CCG, the posters and heck lets face it the only reason I've not made the fanfests is that I've sold my soul buying store stuff through the years. But to get back to the point I would like to see it so that when you decide to play in your sandbox the sand doesn't take some random time between "instant & unlikely to reply ever" to your instructions. When we were approaching Castor and the server used to die at around 11k people we all were astounded when castor and its associated hardware rolled out and we saw 15k and no lag "mainly". but quickly we hit 18-20k and lag returned. It seems that the hardware in Eve is always just enough to cope and always 3 months after its needed. The server right now is in some areas brilliant and in others frankly a waste of logging in. with the new hardware i imagine that the game will become playable everywhere again. But for how long? It seems the upgrades only bring capacity back to a sliver above what is needed. I think the shame is that i know that what i want from ccp is unattainable. Because what i want is a lag free server that can handle any demand. Real life dictates that this cannot happen because it would mean having far too much extra and wasted capacity on the server because real life demands will mean that ccp accept that at certain points they cannot meet demand no matter how much they'd like it otherwise. I think the danger of talking about sandboxes and what we want out of them (from my perspective as a +three year old player ) is that we dream of the day when the sandbox is not only free but where it is infinitely wide and can serve every sand related desire. That we want not only sand castles but sand aeroplanes and sand submarines and perfect sand economy's and for that matter we want to be secure in the knowledge that people cheating by wetting the sand will be punished but instantly and without recourse but that those that were just caught playing with their wet sand " caused by the rain " will be safe from the banstick. We not only want sand physics to be great we want sand that actually feels fun, we want to not only enjoy the look of those sand aeroplanes but we want them to fricking damn well fly too and god forbid the economist who tells us that its not feasible just yet. Sad thing is I suspect many of you feel the same way in that no matter how much new sand we get we just want the existing sand to perform better but we'll still enjoy the new sand and we'll still curse the sand providers for getting their priorities wrong but we trust in them to eventually get the perfect sandbox designed and we all want to have sandbox access rights at that moment. Amen thy brotha, pretty much what i said in the post above yours just in lessers words i'm just not so bright _____________________________________________ Originally by: some nub ..aka recovering WoW person What lvl can I start PvP ?
Vanlade Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:34:00 - [47] Originally by: Eris Discordia I wanted to make a reply involving water and girls, but kieron is sitting to close to me. Kieron is in Iceland atm? I thought he was working from the USA? - Vanlade
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:36:00 - [48] Imo, sand should be put to the the background after this round of "Revelations". Instead, fix, replace, improve the tools we have to build stuff with it. That comes down to more features that work and less content that adds only temporary improvement of the kind that does not involve giving players more possibilities to make their own content. I mean, nice, 8 new regions, 223 new ships, 588 new missions, what the hell does it change ? Contract systems, sovereignty changes, gang improvements, fixing obvious design-errors like logoffski and scanning limitations, that's where the gravy is at. Old blog
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:32:00 - [49] Originally by: Lifewire DEVs tend to say that we need more sand in the EVE sandbox - i want to discuss this because i think we dont need more sand, we need a better game in the sandbox. Quite funny that YOU mention this. You and your corps favorite playstyle is gate sniping in lowsec. No wonder you get bored.
icechip	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:38:00 - [50] What they need to do is Limit the size of a Alliance say 10 corps. They w/ more teams you have more actions because you have more alliances fighting for space. They w/ the resources you only have 10 locations or so .. but 50 alliances.. then makes a good game.. to dominate the areas.. Its be nice tho if they made it that you could walk around the stations and land on planets. Inter act somehow there.
Shabesa	Posted - 2006.10.20 21:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Rod Blaine I mean, nice, 8 new regions, 223 new ships, 588 new missions, what the hell does it change ? You kidding? That's 8 new regions for Player Owned Lag, 223 new ships to petition for and 588 new missions to ... whatever. I'd say that changes a lot. Balance is the key. They have 80ish thousand customers to satisfy and although bell curve is probably peaked around lag there're still many out there that couldn't care less if warping to POS got you permakilled.
Azrael Bierce Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2006.10.20 21:23:00 - [52] Dunno about the sand, but we definatly need to spawn more overlords.
dailyhazard Caldari Cosmic Fusion	Posted - 2006.10.20 21:25:00 - [53] Problem is they seem to be accomodating for the chav kids who like to hang around in groups all the time and wont engage anything alone, rather than the normal less retarded kid who wants to fight whatever the numbers.
Araxmas Caldari Imperial Space Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.20 21:39:00 - [54] Might need something to stop people urniating in the sandbox like they did in my school. -------- The only way i'm sexy on a sig is when im hidden behind fancy effects.
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.20 21:42:00 - [55] Quote: Quite funny that YOU mention this. You and your corps favorite playstyle is gate sniping in lowsec. No wonder you get bored. I was also 2 years in 0.0 and didnt find the roleplay- and playerdriven parts of EVE. Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Lo3d3R Implant Liberation Front Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.20 21:56:00 - [56] Edited by: Lo3d3R on 20/10/2006 21:56:29 A good measure wich will effect also some of my chars...all lvl 4 agents spread out in low sec, all good lvl 3 agents spread out in low-sec, we need more players in the low-sec ~~sexbox~~ sandbox. ___________________ Eating Chopped Bear:
Scoundrelus Unseen Jihad	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:04:00 - [57] If by sand they mean T2 BPOs then I agree. =============================================== We are Watching You.
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:07:00 - [58] Fix the servers so we all stop falling out of the sandbox. Hidden in this signature is a secret message. Send me isk, Caracals cost money.
Pickaname	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:20:00 - [59] So...sandboxes are fun...when it's not raining out. I understand the plight of the dev team. So much to do, not enough time/resources to do it. Gotta manage adding new content to keep players happy, but at the same time...if bugs and issues go left unfixed for so long, it becomes a huge drag on the game. 8 new systems is nice...but there's up to 30k players on at one time....8 is such a small small part of the game. There needs to be sand, yes, but there also needs to be that person standing outside of the sandbox going "Hey I think you would have fun building a sandcastle...why don't you try it?" I'm sitting in a hanger waiting for the next 30 days while my training skills finish. I can rat, mine, repeat missions over and over, and chat. That gets old after a while. After i get to 00 I can add pvp to that list...but fleet battles get repetative if there's nothing there to provoke/change them besides player politics. There's gotta be more to it. Adding new ships n things, excellent. Adding new places to visit, excellent. But there needs to be more drive in the game - by the game itself-, and not leaving everything up to the players...factional warfare might be a push in the right direction...but there needs to be more game involvement in the game.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:37:00 - [60] The number of complicated analogies in this thread are mind blowing -----------------------------------------------
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.20 23:00:00 - [61] Originally by: Oveur We are. Producers, Harvesters, Researchers, Explorers, Archeologists, Hackers, Pirates (through tracking down explorers) are all getting worked on in Kali 1. Don't forget shipwreck Salvaging. wait... does that mean we pirates cant track down the harvesters and producers? just explorers? er, anyways, i like throwing sand at the girls I'M IN YOUR SYSTEMS. I'M KILLING YOUR MANS!!!

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