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What is the logic behind making the T3 Caldari BS a gunship?

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Lorn	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:13:00 - [31] I've waited 3 years for a shield tanking rail platform, and someones wants a what? a slightly more missiley raven
Alpine 69 Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:13:00 - [32] Originally by: Shabesa And what will you train now that you pretty much maxed missile skills? ehh lets say he has 6m missiles maxed is 21m thats a 15m difference and thats not pretty much maxed imo mods feel free to have random discussions in my sig :P
FyreStrike	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:56:00 - [33] I too am a missile character, thatÆs where the vast majority of my weapon training has been for the Raven, Cerberus and Nighthawk with just shy of 7m sp in missile launcher op. And I gotta say the Rokh is a great idea...as people have pointed out it is the logical next step for Caldari BSÆs as the other ship classes already have gunboats. I wouldnÆt say it screws over missile users, just because itÆs Tier 3 doesnÆt make it vastly superior to the raven in the same way the raven isnÆt vastly superior to the Scorp...theyÆre all used for different things and only any good at what theyÆre designed to do. The Rokh is obviously designed for sniping which means tracking and damage mods and only a very limited tank if any at all, so get up close to it and it isnÆt going to last long, it will have its strengths and weaknesses just like every other ship in the game. Lastly lets not forget we havenÆt even had chance to test it yet, so all this is just speculation...
Xasz Unemployment Office	Posted - 2006.10.22 20:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Raivotar You ask logic , you shall get it. Griffin - Blackbird - Scorpion Kestrel - Caracal - Raven Merlin - Moa - Rokh Done. Next? :) QFT.
marioman Caldari Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.23 01:08:00 - [35] Personally I can't wait to try out a set of Neutron Blaster Cannon IIs on the Rokh myself. Hey it works for the Eagle lol Anyway one thing to note: even with the Rokh getting 8 turrets (maybe) it wont do as much damage as a mega. Megathron with BS 5 is like having 8.75 guns. The only way you might be able to out damage a mega would be under Spike L range, where the Rokh could use a higher damage ammo to hit the same distance. Which afaik is the way all the tier 3 ships go comparing gal to cal (IE Moa has more range but less damage than the Thorax, etc). Anyway I started out as caldari, flew a raven for a long time, trained up to medium t2 hybrid skills and realized nothing I could use large on with caldari so i worked on Gal. Atleast now we will have a BS sized gunboat to match the other 2 base ship sizes.
Hex'Caliber Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.23 03:03:00 - [36] The reason for a Caldari rail boat is simple, caldari fleet pilots have complained that missiles are useless for fleet engagements where their intended target is often dead long before their missile salvos could possibly hope to reach the intended target. Caldari have always had some ships with hybrid bonuses and turret mounts, so why the big surprise? ItÆs just a pity the other races donÆt seem to be getting the same attention to balance. The Gallente really have no need for a dedicated blaster boat, initially it (Rohk) was nothing more than a vindicator by another name until Gallente pilots raised merry hell here on the forums. I donÆt much like the current proposals and the new change, the fact it is the only new battleship without a tanking bonus stinks imho. I would have rather seen a Gallente EW battleship, to help round out ship roles, perhaps a ship that is mid slot heavy relying on EW for protection. /sarcasm on In a perfect world, I would have introduced an anti missile platform given that the biggest threat to Gallente in eve lore are the Caldari, but I guess that applying real world design logic to a game like eve has no place. Unfortunately we are stuck with the current ôoh that sounds cool lets do thatö design ôcoughö logic ôcoughö. I would also have warp disruptors/scrams affect a given mass instead of the stupid points system and have warp stabs add extra mass to a ship, thereby circumventing the whole mess that it is currently causing. However, what do I know, I seem to be afflicted by applying common sense to problem solving and design decisions. /sarcasm off Regards HexCaliber
Teg Khanid	Posted - 2006.10.23 04:00:00 - [37] One question, though: Where'd you get all this info? I've seen the picture of the new BS, but haven't managed to find the stats anywhere. Could someone toss me a link?
Hex'Caliber Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.23 06:52:00 - [38] Some of the details were released in a dev blog a while back Linkage others have surfaced in the ships and modules forum. Note the second bonus mentioned for the Hyperion has been changed ala my first post it is now going to be a mass reduction, to improve speed and acceleration or some other equally useless nonsense . I am sorry but really believe the Hyperion is getting the short end of the stick, the megathron has proven itself a more than adequate blaster boat. Add a "crappy locking range" <- (Tuxfords own words not mine) smaller drone bay than the megathron and lack of tanking bonus that the other new ships are getting and we are left with a ship that will be almost useless in fleet engagements. Reducing it to solo or small gang pvp where ranges are very seldom that great to begin with, thus negating any possible value the lower mass might afford it. Regards HexCaliber
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.23 08:14:00 - [39] Out of sheer interest. You state you dislike it using Rails. What do you want it to be then? A bloody Raven on steroids? Like it isnt good enough yet? Think, then post. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.23 08:16:00 - [40] Originally by: Calio As understand the offensive boni for the Roc, they are all related to turret weapons. Presumably it will need BS lev 5 to fly. Any Caldari pilot with lev 5 BS skill is probably flying a Raven and has 4-5 mil in missle skills (I have 5+), since there is no point in training large turrets for a missle ship. Does CCP really expect Caldari pilots to now spend another 5 mil SP just to fly a Caldari T3 BS? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm probably going to pass on it. What they're doing strikes me as about as logical as making the T3 Amarr BS a pure missle boat. Merlin -----> Moa -----> Roc All range boni ships. Could it just be. And I'm just speculating here. That there is a consistency there. And Caldari have always been a Railgun race... Mind control and tin hats
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.23 08:21:00 - [41] I know a lot of Amarr specialists who would give their right arm to have a choice of three completely different battleships. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Dano Sarum Giants in the Playground Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.23 08:32:00 - [42] You realise they've given the caldari now who didnt have a fleet battleship possibly THE best sniper ship now? Seriously would you rather have a slightly different raven with an extra low or something and make the raven redundant? Honestly you have no idea how many skills Minmitar or Amarr need to train to be even the least bit usefull or use all of their ships, stop whining. You've got a superb new USEFULL bs that doesnt make other ships redundant. I'm failing to see how the Amarr or Minmitar BS's are going to be used in place of the Geddon / Tempest. ========== -Dano GitP Recruitment
EvilNate Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:00:00 - [43] You do realise that Caldari are a rail-gun using race too right? Merlin, Moa, Ferox (yes, this is actualy a rail-boat) and now the rail-gun dedicated caldari users are finally getting a rail-boat BS. You have your raven and you are finally getting a missile boat BC, please stop moaning. Nate.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:00:00 - [44] "a FEW caldari ships with railguns" Grrrr... ECM: Griffin -> Blackbird -> Rook/Falcon -> Scorp Misiles: Crow -> Hawk -> Caracal -> Cerberus -> New T2 BC -> Nighthawk -> Raven Rails: Raptor -> Harpy -> Moa -> Eagle -> Ferox -> Vulture -> Rokh Just because you only fly the missile line of caldari ships doesn't give you an excuse to be ignorant about the rest. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:05:00 - [45] Has anyone considered how this beast is going to work as a mission runner? I personally think that a fit with 8x ion cannon II might work quite well. Without going into it too much, I would think that range would be about 20km with lead (yes, I know blasters are made for antimatter, but sometimes you need the range!) And if you push it to tungsten? 30km range with blasters? wtf? ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." ----------------------------------------------
Paigan Amarr Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Calio Any Caldari pilot with lev 5 BS skill is probably flying a Raven and has 4-5 mil in missle skills (I have 5+), I always wonder how people can spend so much SP in one category. I have 2 mil SP. And that gives me T2 Siege launchers, even citadel launchers, and all relevant skills at 4, giving me almost max damage. I don't need T2 rockets or other crap. Who needs T2 CMs if you already have Javelin Torps. And spending weeks over weeks just to get the last crappy percent out of my launchers is utter nonsense. So w(here)tf did you squander all those SP? Activate your brain before skilling and switch to more useful stuff (rails?) instead of killing SP and creating whine threads. -- This game is still in beta stage
MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:17:00 - [47] I can't belive I see people complaining about the tier 3 BS being a rail platform. Not only does it make perfectly good sense but any real caldari players would have trained hybrids a long time ago if they actually intended to use all the ships. Personally I have 7 mill in gunnery and 6 mill i missiles but even half of that would make both the Raven and the Roc efficient enough. Besides, unless you intend to fly the Raven alone and nothing else, this opens to fly The Gallente ships aswell. guy being attacked by a pirat in a complex Originally by:* Noluck Ned Notify Concord is on their way to help you, just hang in there, they are waiting for the gatekeeper to respawn
Satura Caldari Four Rings Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:19:00 - [48] I am a raven pilot. Not good skills in missiles, but enough to be able to rat and do "some" damage in close engagements. Since i moved to 00 in my new corp, i started training gunnery more than anything. Trying to snipe in a raven is dumb. I rather fly a ferox and HIT something, than fly a raven and don't hit anything. Everytime i lock something, i only have time to start target painter and lauch a salve of missiles, after wich, the target pops. Rokh is my wet dream at the moment, and it is the only thing that keeps me from training for Megathron. Glad to see some Caldari pilots who <3 Railguns. YOU are NOT alone. My only question is...when do we get teh mighty Rokh??
Loka Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:39:00 - [49] Gal BS lv 5, training just right now Caldari lvl 4. Guess why? Yeah the Rokh. The Rokh will be an alternative for every Pilot without T2 mounted guns or skills to mount that guns, to attain at long range fleetbattles. Right now every pilot who cant hit at 180km+ is forced to use a frig or a cruiser for support to be usefull in fleetbattles or to shoot at all. Rokh will be a cheaper plattform and an alternative for ppl without T2 guns in fleetbattles. Als T2 Large Neutrons will just rock on the Rokh. So yes the Rokh will rock. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Kazaam High 8x 425mm Railgun II ( or 350mm Railgun II ) Med 2x Sensor Booster II 2x Tracking Computer II 1x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 1x Invunerability Field II 1x XLarge Shield Booster II ( or Large Shield Extender II ) Low 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1x Damage Control I 1x 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1x Medium Armor Repairer II ( or another Rolled Tungsten ) I am htinking this would be a fleet setup or just pirate ganking in low sec? either way it is a real bad idea to tank both arm and shields m8 just stick with one and sicne there is an abundance lows and mids u can increase ur sniping capabilites to the max . I would go for the following Mids: 3 X Sensor Booster T2 3 X Trackign comp 1 X Mwd Lows: 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1x Damage Control I 1x 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1x Medium Armor Repairer II ( or another Rolled Tungsten ) Or Mids: 2 X shield Extender 2 X invul Field 2 X Sesnor booster 1 X AB or mwd Lows: 3 X Mag stab 2 X tracking enhancer. As for the OP , its realy simple caldari doenst have a turret based BS so the Tier 3 should have added soemthign new to the flavour also goign with the race 2nd weapon system. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
El Berto Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:57:00 - [51] Originally by: Paigan Originally by: Calio Any Caldari pilot with lev 5 BS skill is probably flying a Raven and has 4-5 mil in missle skills (I have 5+), I always wonder how people can spend so much SP in one category. I have 2 mil SP. And that gives me T2 Siege launchers, even citadel launchers, and all relevant skills at 4, giving me almost max damage. I don't need T2 rockets or other crap. Who needs T2 CMs if you already have Javelin Torps. And spending weeks over weeks just to get the last crappy percent out of my launchers is utter nonsense. So w(here)tf did you squander all those SP? Activate your brain before skilling and switch to more useful stuff (rails?) instead of killing SP and creating whine threads. Just because you don't want them, doesn't mean their not useful (who wants to pvp in a BS all the time). However, thats not really the point. To the op: Support gun skills apply to three different weapon systems, the SP needed to get specialised T2 gear is higher but damn its worth it. I've spent month or so already training up for this damn things. I now have the skills to fly gallente ships as well; if you only want to shoot missiles all your eve-life then good for you, some of us enjoy the variation of flying EW, missiles and rails. As it is its going to be a devistating long range platform in groups... I recon it will be a one trick pony though (even if that trick is the big one missing from the caldari repertoire). I say to you why should the rohk simply be a mission runners wet dream?
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.23 10:05:00 - [52] I can't help but laugh when I see people moan about this. Imho having 5 million SP in missiles and not even being able to use T1 large hybrids is so damn stupid that they deserve no better. What is the point of training stuff like some missile spec 5 for a 2% gain when you can train the use of a whole new line of weapons in a mere fraction of that time? Diversification 4tw and excess specialization 4tl! That goes for both Caldari missile nerds and Amarr laser pigheads. Don't blame the game for your sub-optimal training decisions. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Ortu Konsinni KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.10.23 10:10:00 - [53] I think you're not complete as a Caldari pilot until you have good gunnery skills AND good missile skills. For me it was a source of frustration not to have a reason to train Large Hybrids to 5 after I got Medium Hybrids to 5. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
Jazz Bo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.23 11:09:00 - [54] All the old skool Caldari pilots will have Railguns trained anyway. Caldari battleships used to have Rail bonuses, until they were changed into missile/EW ones. And you need to stop thinking you must use it because it's tier 3 and the Raven is tier 2. If all you want is a better Raven, save up and buy a Navy Raven. Quote: Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew... squishhh
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2006.10.23 11:16:00 - [55] It's a ship that enables people with less than 6m SP in gunnery to participate in fleet fights at >150km, and as such it's a very good idea. Fit named T1 rails and a rack of mag stabs.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.23 11:22:00 - [56] Originally by: Calio As understand the offensive boni for the Roc, they are all related to turret weapons. Presumably it will need BS lev 5 to fly. Any Caldari pilot with lev 5 BS skill is probably flying a Raven and has 4-5 mil in missle skills (I have 5+), since there is no point in training large turrets for a missle ship. Does CCP really expect Caldari pilots to now spend another 5 mil SP just to fly a Caldari T3 BS? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm probably going to pass on it. What they're doing strikes me as about as logical as making the T3 Amarr BS a pure missle boat. Hes probably referring to the skillpoints you need to invest in large hybrids! I'm willing to wager that you'll see more Gallente pilots in Rokhs than Caldari pilots. Training Caldari bs to IV or V will take significantly less time than training large railgun spec to IV (which many Gallente pilots already have). A few more skills to fit large extender II's and maybe some shield hardeners and Bob's your uncle. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.

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