Okay devil's advocate time: some of the new players who get ganked are ganked because it was very profitable to do so, meaning that they have unusual wealth for a new player, probably from plexing, showing an increased willingness to give CCP money, e.g. for subbing. The stats don't just show a get ganked -> stay in EVE causal link.

But almost everyone who stuck around has a positive story to tell that starts with adversity, and rats don't provide that.

Okay devil's advocate time: some of the new players who get ganked are ganked because it was very profitable to do so, meaning that they have unusual wealth for a new player, probably from plexing, showing an increased willingness to give CCP money, e.g. for subbing. The stats don't just show a get ganked -> stay in EVE causal link.

But almost everyone who stuck around has a positive story to tell that starts with adversity, and rats don't provide that.

Ganking new players is never profitable unless they fill a t1 hauler full of crap they bought with the isk they got from selling PLEX..

Imagine Eve single player. Would you or anyone else play it?

Correlation does not imply causation

That's the scenario I was talking about, although not necessarily a T1 hauler. Shuttles full of PLEX, frigates with 1000x their value in fittings...

Just to be clear this isn't hypothetical, I have retained a fair few new players who did this.

getting smashed up by marmite gatecampers who dock up at the first sign of a fair fight is certainly not good for eve. And it seems that the CSM vote tallies confirmed that.

Except that the ones who get ganked and curb stomped by Marmite have the highest retention rates.

Which makes the rest of your statement an obvious lie.

Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong

completely false, of course. No way to wardecc npc or 1 man corps...no payment to concord will let you shoot at me...only way is by committing a crime.

Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong



Please highlight in the above quote what exactly that was a rebuttal against?

Please show us your data. Here's my data .. sadly anecdotal .. every indy/carebear looking character I see in space belongs to a corp/alliance that is or was recently dec'ed by Marmite, Deadly Fingertips and the like. This might be a good lesson in the realities of EVE, but it might also be a lesson that they should just go back to WoW. After all the wimps go back to WoW,who will you fight? Not each other, there seems to be a rule against that.

All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior.

Which is why we need can flipping too.

I absolutely agree with you, there is no way the Marmites can do it alone!

No noob left behind! Let's lead the collaboration, Veers!

Yes, everyone knows about the old eve, where new players were exposed to nonstop griefing and curbstomping by bittervets. Guess what? It was bad for business, bad for new player retention, and got chucked out the window.

Go shoot up the newbie systems and let CCP know your opinions of the matter. Highsec is designed to be lawful, and nonconsensual PvP is a criminal act there.

Yes ganking is a criminal act and sine they neglected to bribe concord they are dealt with by that entity. What's your point? However if you pay off concord like a good law abiding citizen then the non consensual PvP is legal not criminal. Your statement is wrong

Lets skip back a little here.


To which I rebutted by saying


Then suddenly 'Highsec' became Veers Belvar?

That about sums it up no?

The point is that the game is already designed to make it impossible to shoot at you in highsec without concord intervention UNLESS you voluntarily elect to join a player corp and not drop when wardecced. There is no general consequence free nonconsensual pvp by paying concord off.

All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior.

The part about neglecting to bribe concord, as if as long as you pay the fee highsec PvP is 100% allowed. Which is completely belied by the ability to be in an NPC corp, where no bribe to facilitate PvP is possible - the only way to engage in it is through criminal activity.

All Marmite are effective at doing is getting people to drop corp and stick to npc/1man corps. Stifling social interaction in highsec is not a victory, rather it the height of counterproductive behavior.

I agree with Veers, we should be able to war dec the NPC's too. Even if its at a higher rate than other normal alliances.

Completely untrue. You should be more specific in your assessment of the situation there Veers. I believe the correct way to say it is Marmite is effective at making YOU drop corp and stick to npc/1 man corps. But...let's be fair here...any corp that decs you will cause you to drop corp. I have tested this theory on more than one occasion..either by me, an alt, or a friend. THIS is what the problem is. CCP has allowed the risk averse to to dodge the inevitable in a game that is based around inevitable space conflicts.

There are ways to survive a war with a foe that is larger or better than you....and I mean more than just dropping corp, hiding in station, not logging on, or doing your business with an alt for the duration. I shouldn't have to spell it out for you. If you do not know what these things are, that is a problem..and exactly why the risk averse continuously have issues with wars and ganking. Step up and learn the game.

TBH, until you have stepped into the shoes of a PvPer and actually done something, you really don't have a right to complain about it imo. It does not make someone a "hero" to try to be an advocate for or speak against something they know nothing about. In fact, it makes one look foolish. It's easy to point fingers and blame others..but the real blame lies on yourself. The question is, will you keep running and blaming others...or will you take responsibility for your own mistakes and do something about it. hmmm?

....and this isn't just directed at you...