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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1907
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Posted - 2015.03.25 09:14:15 -
[121] - Quote
I really dislike the concept of NPC couriers. Why on earth would you add this when there are already courier corps? Logistics should be a player solved problem.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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GeeShizzle MacCloud
582
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:33:59 -
[122] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Alexis Nightwish wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
yah cause if i have a RL emergency that keeps me away from the game for days and my super is moored onto a L structure, itd be great to come back after say a week of being in hospital to find my super was taken from under me just because something unfortunate happened in the real world and hostile attacked that pos.
Yahh that's a fun game. Go back and rethink your argument in a way that doesn't penalises people for not playing 23.5/7.
As I understand it, your alliance mates are perfectly capable of moving the super to a safe location during your absence. so you're advocating account sharing? i think you'll find thats against the EULA/TOS. ... and i do hope that your whimsical disregard for such a breach of the rules of play isn't indicative of you or your corp / alliance mates activities. At what point did supers get locked to accounts? Moor super at structure. Eject. Log out. **** happens. Ally boards super. Ally gets super to safety. Where in the above is the EULA breach?
The bit where you realise you need to keep the the f**king context of the discussion and not assume that someone can do that from a hospital bed in an unconscious state with broken arms etc... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1025
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:52:30 -
[123] - Quote
For getting stuff out of a station perhaps expensive emergency mooring and storage containers could be built. In the event of a station going down the mooring jump bridges itself and any ship moored to it to a safe spot and cloaks up. The jump drive would need to be fuelled up to operate and would only be a one way jump to a pre-determined set of co-ords or a random location stored under planetary launches. On arrival the mooring would cloak or simply not be visible on d-scan but still visible if someone happens to fly near it.
This gives players a means to save their stuff if away from the game but at a cost. The location would be stored in their planetary launches tab to allow a player who is away from the game to go back and grab their stuff. Other players could locate their stash by tracking down the player in space. |
thatonepersone
Son's of Plunder The Marmite Collective
14
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Posted - 2015.03.25 13:02:15 -
[124] - Quote
There should be no asset safety except on xl structures in so null. Anything more than that and you might as well be in a high sec war dec Corp. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2028
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Posted - 2015.03.25 14:34:28 -
[125] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I really dislike the concept of NPC couriers. Why on earth would you add this when there are already courier corps? Logistics should be a player solved problem.
Problem is there is no ship in game that can scrrop a capital ship that was in the hangar and was spilled into space!
There is no way to solve it with current mechanics, unless you allow peopel to board things that are inside a container.... but I bet ccp do not want to implement that.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Masao Kurata
Z List
200
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Posted - 2015.03.25 17:12:50 -
[126] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Zappity wrote:I really dislike the concept of NPC couriers. Why on earth would you add this when there are already courier corps? Logistics should be a player solved problem. Problem is there is no ship in game that can scrrop a capital ship that was in the hangar and was spilled into space! There is no way to solve it with current mechanics, unless you allow peopel to board things that are inside a container.... but I bet ccp do not want to implement that.
They already implemented that, you can do that with SMA, orca, carrier, super and titan wrecks. |
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
97
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Posted - 2015.03.25 17:15:43 -
[127] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:To me, this looks like a lot of time to move some or all of your assets out, even if you can't play 23/7. To me it looks like 3 or 4 days. So if I'm a guy who plays only on the weekend, I could come back every time to a pod floating in space with all my assets gone. Nevermind if I take a few weeks or months off from the game. |
Masao Kurata
Z List
201
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Posted - 2015.03.25 17:18:31 -
[128] - Quote
I realised that if a secure/insecure split for accessibility with a delay on getting things in or out, like I suggested, was implemented, it should actually have a significant delay on putting things into long term storage, although it should be possible to queue things to go in or out remotely. I'm thinking 28 hours to secure items, which can be cancelled at any point in that time, 20 hours to extract items ready for use.
For a physical explanation of what's going on, let's say the items are being physically sealed off by whatever tech that we don't use in spaceship manufacturing because of Reasons, and when you want items out the workers inside move them then seal off that area before breaching the outer wall. |
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
97
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Posted - 2015.03.25 17:22:03 -
[129] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:EDIT: Well I should've read the whole thread, the secure/insecure split was suggested earlier, although not with the ready for use mechanic that I'm suggesting, and later there's an inaccessible protected mode mentioned, although for the entire hangar. I like my solution best of course but I'm biased.
It's a lot like my "space elevator" idea -- secure items on planet surface, insecure items at the orbital structure, and some substantial delay involved in moving assets between the two. My idea also has the benefit of giving the DUST players something to see on the horizon.
Quote:Say, lieutenant, what's that potato-shaped lump over there with the camo webbing over it?
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Idgarad
Yulai Guard Yulai Federation
9
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Posted - 2015.03.25 18:18:20 -
[130] - Quote
Report from old thread:
Simple solution for the "structure destroyed, what to do with everyones ****" solution. Throw it into impound and charge a per m3 free to get it out of impound with the first 50,000m3 free of charge (or whatever m3 value is appropriate). They can go to any station and get their stuff but charge a fee to prevent creative item transferring over a distance. Moored ships fair game.
To further temper the impound solution have it transfer only Xm3 per hour. Someone with 300,000,000m3 of cargo in a station might have to pay (say for argument and easy math 10isk per m3) would fork over 3,000,000,000 isk to get it all out but only 1,000,000m3 per hour so you'd be looking at 3000 hours (128 days) to get it all out of impound. (Obviously tweak those numbers to something appropriate).
It prevents someone loading up a crap ton of capitals and blowing their own POS up to quick move stuff around while giving people the ability to get their loot from a station that got whacked while there were gone.
Think of it as Interbus handling the salvaging of the massive wrecks. Hell let those on the killmail get a % cut of the impound fee as compensation.
Moored ships I would assume are normal fair game but this seems a simple, lightweight solution and compromise. Nothing worse then someone who only plays say in the winter, and comes back after 4 months. |
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Tessaline
Tessaract Industries
0
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Posted - 2015.03.25 18:34:07 -
[131] - Quote
I do not like the idea of limiting the time that players have to rescue their stuff after a station has been destroyed.
There are many players, like me, that leave and return to EVE after months or even years. Sometimes we are torn away from EVE suddenly unwillingly because of RL. Like when my my first child was born with medical complications that necessitated him/us living within a hospital in another state for 8 weeks... (He's perfectly normal now all because we were able to relocate him to a center of excellence for his condition. Had we not done that, his life would have been plagued by health issues and never have been able to play athletic sports because the local (cowboy/hack) doctors would have left him with hips only capable of waddling...) Also think about people in the military who sometimes have to leave for long periods with relatively short notice.
Aside from that, I know there are a lot of players that leave and return to EVE sporadically. I STRONGLY suggest you research subscriber statistics before implementing anything that has a timer.
My brother came back a few months ago and found that his 0.0 player built station, containing a large amount of assets, had changed hands multiple times. He was at least able to jump clone into it and sell most of his things on the local market. Even with a mechanic that permanently relocated his items somewhere in the solar system (like a deep safe), he would not have been able to get to them for a long time because he no longer belonged to a corp. Even if he did, he didn't have station access so he would have had to spend weeks cautiously ferrying (losing) some his stuff on the way to high-sec (through wormholes if he was lucky). He's told me that he would not be playing anymore if he would have lost a large amount of what his 10 year old character had accumulated/stashed there. When he left, stations were invulnerable. What if he came back after the upcoming structure patch to find his stuff completely gone due to some timer he'd never heard about?
Though personally moving your stuff should be possible, I think that you should at least be able to pay a PLEX or something to have your stuff relocated to a chosen station. To prevent abuse the transfer service would have to only be available when the station is destroyed, otherwise rich people/alliances could use it to safely move trillions of isk/items very cheaply.
We want more people and content in 0.0... |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2163
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Posted - 2015.03.25 19:12:19 -
[132] - Quote
why not have some sort of anomaly like a wreckage feild for each personal hangar? If the structure dies you have the normal single loot point that everyone has access to, then after a period of time the wreck disperses throughout the system. The locations of these personal loot sites remain unknown (and as far as server is concerned, non-existant) until you accept some sort of time or memo in your journal which then creates a location in space with your own wreck. So you have all the time in the world to come back and get your belongings, but you wont have to be perfectly safe either. This would mostly apply to subcapital ships and items. Not exactly sure how it might affect capital ships and such.
Quick layout: - Structure dies - Single wreck spawns with everyone's belongings - after a period of time (anywhere from a week to a month) the main wreck vanishes and each character gets all of the assets transferred to the 'loot cloud' (kind of difficult to explain - players then get a notice in journal of location of personal wreck site - player acknowledges or accepts the memo - wreck site spawns as a warpable site for the player and a scannable location for everyone else - only the owning player has access to wreck - player can then get to wreck and grab what he can with the safety depending on factors normally attributable to operating in space you lost
and a similar process for corp/alliance hangars. You dont permanently lose your belongings, but your access is restricted for a period and then easier to get to later on. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1907
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Posted - 2015.03.25 20:20:30 -
[133] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Zappity wrote:I really dislike the concept of NPC couriers. Why on earth would you add this when there are already courier corps? Logistics should be a player solved problem. Problem is there is no ship in game that can scrrop a capital ship that was in the hangar and was spilled into space! There is no way to solve it with current mechanics, unless you allow peopel to board things that are inside a container.... but I bet ccp do not want to implement that. I was talking about this bit from the dev blog under Market and Office Hubs:
dev blog wrote:Finally, we are considering adding Interbus Shipping abilities, which could reduce logistic hassle for small volume of items to fit a ship, but at a specific cost: a NPC convoy would spawn and manually move to the destination, being highly susceptible to disruption from other player groups. Very artificial and takes away player roles. Bad.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Sky Cloud Austrene
KISIN Enterprises
7
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Posted - 2015.03.25 20:34:32 -
[134] - Quote
Why can't assets in destroyed stations just be transfered to an NPC station, in order to protect players who only play casually, instead of daily or players that are away from the game due to some other RL reason? I know CCP might like it, but fact is there is no incentive to store anything in these destructable structures. At least the current mechanics provide a safety net, because although you may lose a station, it will only be your access to the items that is stopped, you don't actually lose anything. But, if do proceeded with this very bad idea; How will you avoid people exploiting the proposed jettison can system by utilising the hell camp senario ? I cant see any way you could reasonably stop that, given if, by chance, the first time someone warps to a can to retrieve their stuff, & they get scanned down, bingo hostiles bookmark it & they then know where exactly to camp & wait for the person trying to get their stuff to come back, before not only killing them but also their stuff.
I would also like to know, what happens in the case's like B-R, where sov was dropped and every thing became instantly vunerable ? There would be no warning, no time to plan & mount a defence & no time to evac, because there isn't any freeport timer. Upon logging in, you discover what has transpired & that bang, you have lost your stuff, all thanks to the first hostiles/ drop bears, that decided to kill the structure instead of going for sov.
Sorry, but cant see this mechanic benefiting anyone, except those that are saying they want to blow structures up in order to gain loot and looking through the replies to the thread it seems most people do not want this in its current proposed form. |
Memphis Baas
260
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Posted - 2015.03.25 21:03:24 -
[135] - Quote
My suggestion is:
Upon structure destruction, put every user and all their items into a "fortified escape bunker" and warp it to orbit the nearest planet. Send out an in-game mail to everyone that has stuff in the bunker that their stuff will be destroyed in a week unless they pick it up.
Give them the option to extend the duration by another week or two by paying storage fees based on the value of the stuff they have (this can be an ISK sink or a payment to the owners of the solar system).
Let anyone dock so they can pick up their stuff or set up contracts or fire sales to get rid of their stuff, but with a limited number of visits, contracts, or market orders, so that the bunker isn't used as an alternative to a regular station.
The idea is that people who have stuff inside get a reasonable amount of time to get their stuff out, with the option to pay to extend the time a little, then the bunker explodes and it's all gone.
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Tessaline
Tessaract Industries
2
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Posted - 2015.03.25 22:59:18 -
[136] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:My suggestion is:
Upon structure destruction, put every user and all their items into a "fortified escape bunker" and warp it to orbit the nearest planet. Send out an in-game mail to everyone that has stuff in the bunker that their stuff will be destroyed in a week unless they pick it up.
Give them the option to extend the duration by another week or two by paying storage fees based on the value of the stuff they have (this can be an ISK sink or a payment to the owners of the solar system).
Let anyone dock so they can pick up their stuff or set up contracts or fire sales to get rid of their stuff, but with a limited number of visits, contracts, or market orders, so that the bunker isn't used as an alternative to a regular station.
The idea is that people who have stuff inside get a reasonable amount of time to get their stuff out, with the option to pay to extend the time a little, then the bunker explodes and it's all gone.
A man finally logs back into EVE after 9 months. What a perfect way to immerse himself and pass the time. The following is his impression upon logging back into eve.
Dear patriot, CCP has the utmost respect for your service to your country. In true EVE style, we wanted to say thank you by destroying your dread, carrier, and everything else you had in this station. You see, we think that this game is at least as important as real life, and we design it that way. You should have thought about that before you signed up for the army reserves and could be called to active duty on short notice. I know you wish you could have been deployed longer, but that IED had other plans for you and your leg. At least you now have all the time in the world to start over, while coping with agonizing rehabilitation and thoughts of suicide. Welcome back to Eve Online. Please accept our this generous gift of a newbie ship and one tritanium to speed you on your recovery both in and out of game! |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4909
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Posted - 2015.03.25 23:12:50 -
[137] - Quote
Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2028
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Posted - 2015.03.25 23:29:53 -
[138] - Quote
Gathering pieces from what others suggested, woudl make sense if everythign was spilled in spac ein cans. They stay there for a time.
THEN they are relocated to the PLANETS in the system ( you know.. gravity does stuff) fromt here you can still retrieve them, but you will need more effort. FOr example deploy an exploration probe and check every planet or moon in system then use appropriated devices to retrieve them.
That is a place where things can stay FOREVER! Because they will be bothering no one and breaking no immersion.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2028
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Posted - 2015.03.25 23:30:40 -
[139] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
you are in CODE...a nd kill people that fly by with lage ammounts of wealth in fragile industrials while in auto pilot.
And you still asks that?
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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MicroNova
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
5
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Posted - 2015.03.26 02:23:34 -
[140] - Quote
If you want your stuff to be 100% safe keep it in an NPC station.
If you need some equipment for a deployment, then take what you are willing to risk.
Never fly what you aren't willing to lose the second you undock.
Loot is necessary to help motivate structure destruction, loot fairy takes what she needs, victor gets the rest. |
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w1ndstrike
Strange Energy The Bastion
20
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Posted - 2015.03.26 05:27:58 -
[141] - Quote
MicroNova wrote:If you want your stuff to be 100% safe keep it in an NPC station.
If you need some equipment for a deployment, then take what you are willing to risk.
Never fly what you aren't willing to lose the second you undock.
Loot is necessary to help motivate structure destruction, loot fairy takes what she needs, victor gets the rest.
ok, what do you propose to do for the people on hiatus from the game that have no idea this change is coming?
that is the core of this issue. not the risks in the future, its the risks to past actions made under a completely different set of assumptions that there was no reason to second guess at the time that they might ever change.
whatever happens will need to be carefully considered, UNLESS the devs do a one-time move of assets currently in outposts to "clean slate" the board. at that point nearly any design works because you can present the new set of risks as a choice, instead of an imposition. |
Anthar Thebess
978
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Posted - 2015.03.26 10:28:42 -
[142] - Quote
Probably every region have 1-2 NPC made stations. I assume that they will be still the only ones not destroyable at any point ( good for history and eve law, leaves many possibles open for the future).
When applicable structure is destroyed in region , assets are being transferred : To nearest Alliance Owned NPC XL structure or to nearest NPC made station.
If it is not owned by your alliance - well you will need to take it over.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Tiberius StarGazer
Nerd Panic Brave Collective
456
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:41:34 -
[143] - Quote
I'm all in favour of the simplest option. How about an insurance style rebate?
So at the moment, you fly ship, you can insure it, you lose ship, you get the hull back, but no fittings. So at least your going to be able to buy the hull back. So how about apply the same sort of thing to stations.
Station explodes and all items drop based on a loot table. The player docked in station will if they log in over the next 48 hours will appear in whatever ship they were in somewhere randomly in a safe. If longer they log back in in their usual home station back in highsec in whatever ship they were in.
A mail message pops up explaining the station was destroyed but pend insurance has kindly reimbursed them the insurance value of their ship hulls and (maybe) the war market value of all modules - a %.
As for the loot, it drops and people can salvage and collect as per normal. Maybe eve repurpose the noctus with an ability to specifically salvage items from destroyed stations? Which will then prompt massive salvage operations which will be good fun to fight over? |
Tiberius StarGazer
Nerd Panic Brave Collective
456
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:42:31 -
[144] - Quote
Duplicate post. |
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
70
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:48:00 -
[145] - Quote
There is another solution that could be done, but dont know if its viable..
Planetary storage vaults..
Name pretty much says what im thinking.. |
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
98
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Posted - 2015.03.26 15:55:22 -
[146] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
They want to make all stations destructable. Inevitably they will back off from this, and keep NPC stations in lowsec and highsec. So guess where everybody's going to move their stuff. |
oohthey ioh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28
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Posted - 2015.03.26 15:58:54 -
[147] - Quote
Phig Neutron wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
They want to make all stations destructable. Inevitably they will back off from this, and keep NPC stations in lowsec and highsec. So guess where everybody's going to move their stuff.
I think they are leaving null sec stations as non destructible, just outpost and pos's. |
Marseillefrog
Blueprint Mania
7
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Posted - 2015.03.26 19:07:41 -
[148] - Quote
New hacking mini game on a structure can drop anyone? |
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
99
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Posted - 2015.03.26 20:17:55 -
[149] - Quote
oohthey ioh wrote:Phig Neutron wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
They want to make all stations destructable. Inevitably they will back off from this, and keep NPC stations in lowsec and highsec. So guess where everybody's going to move their stuff. I think they are leaving null sec stations as non destructible, just outpost and pos's.
"Outpost" means "Station" in the current EVE. They are talking about transforming them into destructible structures. They have hinted at wanting to do this in highsec and nullsec, too. (I think they'll back off from this, though.) |
w1ndstrike
Strange Energy The Bastion
20
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Posted - 2015.03.26 22:11:42 -
[150] - Quote
Phig Neutron wrote:oohthey ioh wrote:Phig Neutron wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Why would people bring large amounts of wealth to a destructible station? Strikes me as a silly decision.
They want to make all stations destructable. Inevitably they will back off from this, and keep NPC stations in lowsec and highsec. So guess where everybody's going to move their stuff. I think they are leaving null sec stations as non destructible, just outpost and pos's. "Outpost" means "Station" in the current EVE. They are talking about transforming them into destructible structures. They have hinted at wanting to do this in highsec and nullsec, too. (I think they'll back off from this, though.)
there are two types of structures that most people in eve call stations right now, nullsec player-built outposts, and true stations that have existed since the game was created.
currently the development team have indicated they would like to make changes that would render the player-built outposts only destructible, along with the new structures that will replace both outposts and POSes
the big problem is that there are a LOT of old player assets in these outposts, because of previous game mechanics and CCP indications that these would remain 'safe havens' for player assets
a big part of the design challenge is either designing a system that allows emergent gameplay without causing massive harm to affected players, or doing a one-time "clean slate" of all assets in null outposts to allow for a better design that will then not have to account for unsubscribed accounts/legacy assets. |
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