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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.11.03 04:45:00 -
[1]
LOGS.
This game will DIE without logs. People can NOT keep losing ships, modules and implants and corpses due to game bugs which the CS team responds with "tuff sh!t"
I realize they can't tell who is lying and who is telling the truth, so I do not blame them. CCP needs to implement logs which will say WHEN I crashed, why I crashed, who was shooting at me when I crashed and what color my underwear were when I crashed.
YOu can NOT have a game where you can lose everything and never gain everything back and not have a system to reimburse the player for HUNDREDS OF LOST HOUR because of a GAME fault. Whether it's a CTD, a screen freeze, a server crash, a node death. I don't care, but I do want and expect everyone to be reimbursed for ANY loss that happens due to those circumstances.
And then when you get crap like this and you log back in a pod, you can't even jump OUT of the system. The gate keeps saying GET WITHIN 7500m TO JUMP. Meanwhile you're 4000m away. YOu relog and find your pod 20km away. You approach again and same crap. You relog again and AGAIN you're 20km away. There's no way out. Now I gotta wait for a stuck petition.
This can NOT go on. I am not going to accept "sorry, tough luck" responses to my petitions . Either make a system with good logs or reimburse anyone that lost a ship. Check on Chaos build to see what they had if you need.
But you can NOT have your customers losing 100 of hours worth of their gameplay time on a bug YOU caused and then tell them tough luck, try again.
It's enough to drive a man insane and I'm too close to that edge.
BETTER.... LOGS... NOW!
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.03 07:13:00 -
[2]
I agree entirely. I lost far too many ships to bugs and even when I sent screen shots of the incidents I got nothing back. Thats a shame. IMO, its pure lazyness that prevents them from adding logs like that.
LOGS NOW
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Phoibos
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Posted - 2003.11.03 12:08:00 -
[3]
The devs have told us that they improve the logs all the time but it's difficult. so hopefully this will be better.
/Phoibos
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:03:00 -
[4]
Well if they indeed DID improve the logs all the time, we'd see a decrease in the ****ed off peopel that never get reimbursed. The number is still rising :(
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Domaru
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Posted - 2003.11.03 19:33:00 -
[5]
It is such a pity that a great game as this would loose all of its customers due to poor planning with logs. I have had some minor issues, but I guess I am lucky so far. I would tell you that if I had a major one and got a "tough luck" message, I would drop my sucscription like a hot rock and move to another game. You only get to do that so many times before you have no one left interested in wasting time playing before the next major crash. I am even worred now that if something did happen I would be at a loss, and all of this time and money wasted. I hope to see they are proactive ASAP.
Funny, when I saw this post, I assumed the one thing they needed to fix ASAP was the damn "you cannot navigate while warping against an asteroid for 2 hours like an idiot" feature.
-Domaru
www.mentatalliance.com |
Titanau
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Posted - 2003.11.04 03:09:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Titanau on 04/11/2003 03:11:04
 Quote:
This can NOT go on. I am not going to accept "sorry, tough luck" responses to my petitions . Either make a system with good logs or reimburse anyone that lost a ship. Check on Chaos build to see what they had if you need. But you can NOT have your customers losing 100 of hours worth of their gameplay time on a bug YOU caused and then tell them tough luck, try again
Well Hippey i tend to agree with you, i myself have lost ships due to ctd and server node drop outs and i think that the devs could look into each persons petion a little more closley to find out weather they did actually loose there ship or are just trying to pull a fast one just to get a ship 
Please ccp team fix this problem as i can see lots of ppl leaving this great game that has such potential if little problems like these are not resolved 
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Kunming
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Posted - 2003.11.04 06:30:00 -
[7]
There are actually logs, start the "LogServer.exe" and it will note everything (well maybe not the color of your underwear)...
Intercepting since BETA |
Golden Leaf
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Posted - 2003.11.04 07:30:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Yes, to verify everything is our job. However, our logs do not show us everything, and they never will show us everything. Our logs do not give us enough information to be able to verify your case. However we are constantly improving the logs and in a few weeks time they should be much better. You can think that we did not do our best, but we assure you that we do just that, with every single case that we receive. We are very serious about giving everyone that plays EVE, as good a customer support as possible, we believe you and we want to help you in any way that we can. However we can not always do that because our tools are not quite good enough, yet. We also have a reimbursement policy, that we have to follow strictly, in order to maintain fairness among all players. Unfortunetly we can not reimburse you because we can not verify where your modules went, we can not find them in our logs. We hope that you understand our position and that our hands are tied in this matter. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you.
This is what I recieved from GM a month ago.
Their log should be better soon or NOT.
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Traveler
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Posted - 2003.11.04 09:58:00 -
[9]
I understand your infuriation. But think about the following:
How can a server discover if you crashed or just pulled the plug of your network. For the server it is impossible to detect the difference. It simply will not get any packets from the client and closes the connection on timeout.
The only thing YOU can do is to have the logserver running in combats. It will produce a lot of data but you are able to prove a client crash or node dropdown.
Traveler
Polaris Bug Hunter Lead |
McWatt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 13:05:00 -
[10]
Quote:
The devs have told us that they improve the logs all the time but it's difficult. so hopefully this will be better.
/Phoibos
we have improved ... is seriously in the "trademark by ccp" list.
i m no longer counting the improvements i fail to notice. must be me.
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:58:00 -
[11]
That GM response seems a far cry than 'tough luck' or 'tough sh!t' anyways.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Neslo
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:59:00 -
[12]
Quote:
YOu can NOT have a game where you can lose everything and never gain everything back and not have a system to reimburse the player for HUNDREDS OF LOST HOUR because of a GAME fault. Whether it's a CTD, a screen freeze, a server crash, a node death. I don't care, but I do want and expect everyone to be reimbursed for ANY loss that happens due to those circumstances.
Well I hate to differ with you but welcome to eve where it IS possible and in the EULA, which you agree to on a login to login basis... they always have the decline option there for you to choose if you don't want to click accept.
Nes
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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Neslo
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:03:00 -
[13]
Quote:
I understand your infuriation. But think about the following:
How can a server discover if you crashed or just pulled the plug of your network. For the server it is impossible to detect the difference. It simply will not get any packets from the client and closes the connection on timeout.
The only thing YOU can do is to have the logserver running in combats. It will produce a lot of data but you are able to prove a client crash or node dropdown.
i am fair and balanced with my critism... The server can discover when a "Node Drop" occurs and the server is at fault from the random "server connection closed" which is usually a client side issue. So please YOU can tell which is which.
The Fact that GMs don't like to reimburse for "Node Crash" item loss... that's not the players issue. I would also like to say this was more of an issue before the hardware upgrade as I got a "node crash" every few hours and a "server connection closed" only once a day. I have received neither since then, so either my internet became magically happy or this was a server side issue. Just my two cents though.
Nes
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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Rich Ryobi
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Posted - 2003.11.05 06:28:00 -
[14]
Lost a ship Myself, and replied to My petition 7 times to no avail.
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Qual
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Posted - 2003.11.05 11:53:00 -
[15]
"But you can NOT have your customers losing 100 of hours worth of their gameplay time on a bug YOU caused and then tell them tough luck, try again. "
I will never get this argument. Its a GAME! You get your moneys worth if you are having fun WHILE playing. Fun you have had is never lost.
Might spoil your future enjoyment, but thats a whole different story. (Involving the option to cancel ones subscription...)
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Neslo
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Posted - 2003.11.06 00:51:00 -
[16]
Quote:
I will never get this argument. Its a GAME! You get your moneys worth if you are having fun WHILE playing. Fun you have had is never lost.
Might spoil your future enjoyment, but thats a whole different story. (Involving the option to cancel ones subscription...)
This is an interesting concept however, if this were used in every walk of business then you would have the following scenario:
1) Man walks to Pub
2) Man orders Burger
3) Man eats some of the burger thinking its cooked
4) Man pays bill
5) Man gets food poisioning
6) Man is screwed cuz other customers tell him that his money was spent to "eat at the establishment and have a jolly time then" never mind that he got jacked later on in life by that stupid food poisioning...
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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Nanosoft
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Posted - 2003.11.06 09:52:00 -
[17]
Quote:
I will never get this argument. Its a GAME! You get your moneys worth if you are having fun WHILE playing. Fun you have had is never lost.
i agree!
btw. EVE does log, look here: \EVE\capture\Gamelogs
but i do not think it can prove anything as it can be editet. But in that case use the logserver those logs can't be editet you just have to make sure you have a LOT of ram!
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Nanosoft
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Posted - 2003.11.06 09:54:00 -
[18]
and if you crash eve generates a .dmp file here: "\EVE\logs\" that must prove a crash, but i do not think that the GM's can read it...
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.11.06 11:22:00 -
[19]
Quote:
There are actually logs, start the "LogServer.exe" and it will note everything (well maybe not the color of your underwear)...
When your computer reboots, it will too? (no).
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.11.06 17:25:00 -
[20]
Quote:
The only thing YOU can do is to have the logserver running in combats.
you must be kdding, why don't i have a packet sniffer going while i'm at it.
the POINT is that the functionality the logserver provides SHOULD BE INTEGRATED INTO THE CLIENT with a minimal footprint, i.e. restrict it to things that affect the ship, have it dump its info in some fingerprinted mildly encrypted way, and provide a place to upload it and "attach" it to petitions. All problems solved.
Running the lagserver "in combat?" You mean 24/7, right, since a every jump, roidbelt, undock, and sneeze, there's a chance you may lose your ship..? Do you have any idea what running that monster for every single lousy session for EVERYONE will do?
I'm sorry, i can't believe for an instant you thought that through at all. Do the GMs and Devs really wanna look thru my 3.5 hour lagserver chunk for something that occurred at the end of it..? Is mr. dialup that bought this game 'cause the box said he can gonna upload that beast to anyone in this lifetime :D ?
I don't know why you chose to interpret Hippey's point as being "make the SERVER log client activities," but it's weird o_O
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
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