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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2400
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Posted - 2015.03.29 18:42:11 -
[31] - Quote
Lienzo wrote:We still need a reason to mine veld outside empire.
I prefer the semi-recent changes to nullsec ore yields granting them more of the highsec minerals. For instance, there is no reason to mine veldspar or scordite when spodumain is available, no matter how low megacyte is in value, simply because spodumain yields more tritanium and pyerite.
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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Lienzo
Amanuensis
58
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:12:49 -
[32] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I prefer the semi-recent changes to nullsec ore yields granting them more of the highsec minerals. For instance, there is no reason to mine veldspar or scordite when spodumain is available, no matter how low megacyte is in value, simply because spodumain yields more tritanium and pyerite.
http://ore.cerlestes.de/#site:ore
Spod is still worth less per m3 than Veld, though only slightly, by about 6.5% or so. |
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:41:56 -
[33] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Moreover, when you say "looking for compressed ores to import", what do you mean by that? Do you want to say that you buy all the compressed ores in High sec and import them with a JF? If that is your activity, than this change ought never to happen to discourage your disgraceful behavior. You live in Catch, which is Amarr space, which offers all the Ores that you could ever need for procurement of all minerals necessary for production. By importing these ores from elsewhere, you are hurting your own miners. If you do not have proper mining organization, change that. Your miners cannot mine in peace? Provide them with peace. You are a 15k man alliance, which ranks among the most active, make them have fleets to protect your miners against roamers and PVP and all sides gain from that.
Brave has the largest nullsec mining corp, Bovril, and they always have a defense force up to defend their miners--It's beautiful, actually. But they cannot possibly provide the industrial output matched by highsec miners to supply thousands of people whelping ships.
In this instance, I'm buying minerals because we're deploying near Delve, and there will be no opportunities to safely mine there.
Auduin Samson wrote:Snarkiness aside, diverse ores are great for industrialists, especially on the lower end. You mine for what you need. Every ship and item in the game requires different amounts of each mineral. If, for example, whatever you're building doesn't need mexallon, then you shouldn't be wasting mining time on bringing in mexallon. If you're just mining to sell ore and minerals, check Eve Central for whatever is selling the highest and mine that. It's a diverse market, and we shouldn't simplify it into stagnation because you can't find the info tab.
If you don't need Zydrine, then you just have to know not to go for Crokite--that won't change. The diversity in the types of minerals that you're talking about already exists in the fact there's are sixteen ores specialized for the various compositions. This change is in the spirit of CCP's Tiericide efforts, because if one of the better ores is available, there's no reason to not go for it--it's a false choice.
Max Deveron wrote:Hey, Brave NOOBIE......
Learn the Game Brah!!
Seriously, climb the ladder of EvE education as the rest of us have done.
IF you are unable to figure it out by learning how to use your UI to gather the information already present or by using google.....then please refrain from doing anything intelligent and go be a F1 line grunt instead.
-1
Ignoring the Ad Hominem (I've been playing the game on and off for three years), Brave is building caps now. Having Tritanium at GëÑ8 isk in nullsec (as it usually was in GE-) hugely increases the cost of caps, so trying to pick the best compressed ore to ship in a JF to minimize costs is only natural. That said, this change does help the new players, since ores are yet another thing adding unnecessary complexity.
Telling someone to learn the compositions of sixteen types of minerals is bad enough, telling them to learn three variants of each (making 48 types, plus Compressed) is ludicrous--that means 96 different items of ore, and 96 different markets, for just 8 types of minerals. |
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2015.03.29 19:43:23 -
[34] - Quote
I feel bad for anyone who believes a more complex game is better because of the complexity. Maybe they prefer we all quit our jobs so that we have more time to memorize flash cards with yields of internet space rocks. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel
The Kadeshi
1299
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Posted - 2015.03.29 20:14:09 -
[35] - Quote
You do not need to memorize. We linked you several pages which take the forced memorization from you and allow you to let the knowledge trickle in gradually. There are also ore reprocessing calculators available on the internet, which take over the task of calculating mineral outcomes of harvested ore.
Several different ore classes are also by far not complexity for the sake of complexity. It is 3 variations of ore, nearly all modules have a whole lot more variations, even when excluding faction/deadspace/officer/cosmos. The variations also add more reward to lower security status systems and give miners there better yield than the standard ore roids in higher security status systems.
If that is complexity for the sake of complexity in your (general you (I hate English for this ambiguity. -.-)) opinion, you clearly are not fit to play the game.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2402
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Posted - 2015.03.29 20:15:05 -
[36] - Quote
That's messed up. Clearly the nullsec ore yield of highsec minerals is far too low, if Arkonor (which is uncommon even in the deepest reaches of nullsec) is cheaper than Veldspar. Ships use a lot of tritanium, there should be a lot of it coming out of the right ores. Miners in nullsec shouldn't ever find Veldspar or Scordite to be more valuable than ABC or Spodumain.
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel
The Kadeshi
1299
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Posted - 2015.03.29 20:21:54 -
[37] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:That's messed up. Clearly the nullsec ore yield of highsec minerals is far too low, if Arkonor (which is uncommon even in the deepest reaches of nullsec) is cheaper than Veldspar. Ships use a lot of tritanium, there should be a lot of it coming out of the right ores. Miners in nullsec shouldn't ever find Veldspar or Scordite to be more valuable than ABC or Spodumain.
That is because dense Null sec players crashed the market when the first ore rebalance pass hit the game. They had nothing better to do than to reprocess all their ABC and flood the high sec market with it. Guess what happened. A hint: it's not the ore's fault that it's a lot less valuable now. 
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Lienzo
Amanuensis
60
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Posted - 2015.03.29 23:27:17 -
[38] - Quote
It's not the players' fault that ABCs are messed up. They are responding rationally to a lack of demand. You could increase the price of megacyte 1000%, and it would only increase the price of a typical t1 ship by 1%. However, if you increased the price of mexallon just by 10%, the price of a ship would go up ~3.5%.
All ore is abundant and is acquired at near uniform rates. The value of ore is largely governed by the logistical demand of transporting it vs demand. Trit could easily hit 20isk/unit if conflict were pitched up. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
1067
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Posted - 2015.03.30 00:28:35 -
[39] - Quote
Meh, I don't see this as that big of a problem. A quick check of the in-game description often clears it right up. Does make for a messy overview though.
If you are talking about removing something from the game it is best to first figure out why it was done this way in the first place. It was obviously a design decision back in the early days, though one might wonder about its purpose. Maybe because back in 2003 and mining barges weren't around, that 10% actually mattered. Mining the 10% variant might save you quite a bit of time if all you have to mine with is a cruiser. Today the variants of ore types do seem a bit redundant, though, since most belts tend to get stripped of anything valuable at record breaking speeds.
In the interest of removing unneeded complexity I'd say yes, take it out. But in the interest of nostalgia and keeping at least some old artifacts around in the game, I'd so keep it in. There's a case to be made for both honestly. Maybe do a compromise, where you take out the variants but add more new basic ore types in return.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
40
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Posted - 2015.03.30 02:19:44 -
[40] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:That's messed up. Clearly the nullsec ore yield of highsec minerals is far too low, if Arkonor (which is uncommon even in the deepest reaches of nullsec) is cheaper than Veldspar. Ships use a lot of tritanium, there should be a lot of it coming out of the right ores. Miners in nullsec shouldn't ever find Veldspar or Scordite to be more valuable than ABC or Spodumain. That is because dense Null sec players crashed the market when the first ore rebalance pass and the vastly OP reprocessing increase of Minmatar Outposts hit the game. They had nothing better to do than to reprocess all their ABC and flood the high sec market with it. Guess what happened. A hint: it's not the ore's fault that it's a lot less valuable now. By the way: Guess what is going to happen when CCP's April changes to add all minerals available to all the Null sec ores hit the game. A hint: You are sour about the current ABC values, you'll be delighted about all the ore prices after that.
It's going to be a bloodbath. Glorious.  |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
215
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Posted - 2015.03.30 03:14:45 -
[41] - Quote
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis wrote:I feel bad for anyone who believes a more complex game is better because of the complexity (without actual depth). Maybe they prefer we all quit our jobs so that we have more time to memorize flash cards with yields of internet space rocks.
Not taking this personally but I do want to answer it.
It is not a matter of wanting more or less complexity, it is a simple matter of the game presenting the information in a way that is valuable to ALL players. I spent 2 years on another character as the head of mining operations for a 100 player corp, and besides hating mining and everything that goes with it I did learn one very important thing. Not all people like to have their information provided to them in the same format so I would have to prepare a series of graphs etc for the CEO and several of the directors. The current method in game of making the information available is perfect as it presents the raw data if you will and it is up to you to format it to what you like. If you think this is not so just spend some time looking at all the different web sites and how differently they present the same information.
As for limiting the number of ore types again wanting it to stay the same is not about simplicity or complexity it is about choices.
You may want it simplified, but going back to those 2 years the various types were a critical component of what we did as the variations all have a slightly different make make up of the minerals they contain. This allows you to better tailor you mining operations to support a specific need.
Because you hate the variety and think the game would be better off without them does not mean that is the truth for everyone. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2403
|
Posted - 2015.03.30 04:28:49 -
[42] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:That is because dense Null sec players crashed the market when the first ore rebalance pass and the vastly OP reprocessing increase of Minmatar Outposts hit the game. They had nothing better to do than to reprocess all their ABC and flood the high sec market with it. Guess what happened. A hint: it's not the ore's fault that it's a lot less valuable now. By the way: Guess what is going to happen when CCP's April changes to add all minerals available to all the Null sec ores hit the game. A hint: You are sour about the current ABC values, you'll be delighted about all the ore prices after that.
Actually it's more like what Lienzo said.
The reason the nullsec ores aren't valuable is because you barely mine any before you cover the cost of items that take many more hours mining tritanium and pyerite to pay for. It's imbalanced such that the time cost for mining stuff is disproportionately high on the "cheap" end. The only reason those ores were ever valuable in the past is because people weren't mining them as much as they could have been, which is also because they have too little value. Here's how you fix it: decrease the megacyte and zydrine yield of all ores significantly, and make nullsec ores yield more tritaniuim and pyerite.
It's simple math but you have to do it with the assumption that a large fraction of miners are capable of mining in nullsec or w-space. The old math was based on the assumption that almost all mining would occur in highsec.
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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Whittorical Quandary
The Asteroid is Depleted
35
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Posted - 2015.03.30 06:42:12 -
[43] - Quote
If I'm mining it, it's no problem for me, as when you're mining the best ore of that type is in order from bottom to top.
Looking at the market though, some have descriptions with the % improvent and some oddly have it missing. Especially the 5% improved yeild and the compressed ore, tend not to have it listed in info.
A few updates to the info's seem like all it may need.
Tiercide would just make mining even more boring.
"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine."
GÇö Abraham Lincoln
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
87
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Posted - 2015.03.30 08:55:49 -
[44] - Quote
Everything goes full circle. Should we expect another era of cheap ores/minerals?
Last time this happen ccp was rushing fix the situation and came up with extra minerals required for ships build.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
42
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Posted - 2015.03.30 13:34:45 -
[45] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Everything goes full circle. Should we expect another era of cheap ores/minerals?
Indeed. Lowends will return to their historical levels - Trit at 4, Pyerite 7-9 and Mex below 40. |
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