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A new missile mod.

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Valhalior Caldari Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:41:00 - [1] Guns have 2 different mods. Low slot with a damage and rof bonus and mid/low slot tracking and range enhancers. Missiles have only low slot BCU with a rof and damage modification. It is obvious we lack of balance here. What about mid/low slot module with a bonus to missile velocity and explosion radius or speed? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:46:00 - [2] Missile range is already absurdly high compared to other weapons. Do the math. AND your skills give 10% rather than 5%.
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:47:00 - [3] Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 23/10/2006 16:52:07 Originally by: Valhalior Guns have 2 different mods. Low slot with a damage and rof bonus and mid/low slot tracking and range enhancers. Missiles have only low slot BCU with a rof and damage modification. It is obvious we lack of balance here. What about mid/low slot module with a bonus to missile velocity and explosion radius or speed? Well actually there are 4 mods for turrets... But here, have some flame retardant blankets EDIT: but a module to lower the explosion radius or make the explosion velocity higher would be nice, though
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:49:00 - [4] Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 23/10/2006 16:49:26
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Valhalior Guns have 2 different mods. Low slot with a damage and rof bonus and mid/low slot tracking and range enhancers. Missiles have only low slot BCU with a rof and damage modification. It is obvious we lack of balance here. What about mid/low slot module with a bonus to missile velocity and explosion radius or speed? Target painters up the targets sig and thusly unnerf the exp radius. And missile range is fine imho, no need for a boost. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
ragewind Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:13:00 - [6] i do belive he means explosion verlosity and explosion radus not the range of the missiles ------------------------------------ Dragon the patch to optimise EVE. Welcome to Tranquillity the optimised snail Please wait 4 minuets to jump war targets are 2 seconds away.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:14:00 - [7] Edited by: welsh wizard on 23/10/2006 17:14:26 Gah can't we just leave missiles as they are!? Apart from the tech II cruise and rocket ammo, missiles are fine! Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Target painters up the targets sig and thusly unnerf the exp radius. And missile range is fine imho, no need for a boost. Target painters works just as well for turrets. I think the OP was asking for a module dedicated for missiles. I do agree that there is no need for longer missile range, but a dedicated module for lowering the radius and making the explosion velocity higher would be nice
Trader Phil	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: Leandro Salazar Target painters up the targets sig and thusly unnerf the exp radius. And missile range is fine imho, no need for a boost. Target painters works just as well for turrets. I think the OP was asking for a module dedicated for missiles. I do agree that there is no need for longer missile range, but a dedicated module for lowering the radius and making the explosion velocity higher would be nice A tracking computer works infinitly better than a target painter for turrets.
Valhalior Caldari Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:34:00 - [10] I meant a module that can give 2 from 3 attributes: speed, explosion velocity or decrease in explosion radius. Why speed - because range is not the only factor. It is also important how fast your missiles get to the opponent. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dalyn Arathon No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:39:00 - [11] any mod giving a bonus to missile speed would also have to give an identical penalty to missile time in flight. i am primarily a missile user, and we dont need more range. a mod with bonuses to explosion radius/speed would be perfectly fair i think . . . or, since tracking computers give a bonus to both tracking speed and optimal, i think a mod that gives a bonus to both would be perfectly balanced.
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:39:00 - [12] Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 23/10/2006 17:39:40 Originally by: Trader Phil A tracking computer works infinitly better than a target painter for turrets. A tracking computer has no effect on the size of your target, so actually it works infinitly worse at that. I was saying that a target painter works just as well for turrets as for missile, they have the same effect, which is making the target appear bigger.
Valhalior Caldari Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 23/10/2006 17:39:40 Originally by: Trader Phil A tracking computer works infinitly better than a target painter for turrets. A tracking computer has no effect on the size of your target, so actually it works infinitly worse at that. I was saying that a target painter works just as well for turrets as for missile, they have the same effect, which is making the target appear bigger. Ok but if we follow your way of thinking we can ged rid of all dmg, range turret modifications. You can get the same with a webber and a painter --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:49:00 - [14] Edited by: Chronus26 on 23/10/2006 17:49:17 Missles != Turrets. Any attempt to compare them on fine detail points such as this is pretty useless. You have to look at the big picture when it comes to this. They are really Suposed to be different, otherwise we'd have 'Generic Turret L' fitted on every Battleship etc etc. ----- Move along, nothing to see here...
Valhalior Caldari Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.23 17:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Chronus26 Edited by: Chronus26 on 23/10/2006 17:49:17 Missles != Turrets. Any attempt to compare them on fine detail points such as this is pretty useless. You have to look at the big picture when it comes to this. They are really Suposed to be different, otherwise we'd have 'Generic Turret L' fitted on every Battleship etc etc. You are right - thats why i like the idea of a mod dedicated only for missiles --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.23 18:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Grey Area on 23/10/2006 18:02:32 Originally by: Chronus26 Missles != Turrets. Any attempt to compare them on fine detail points such as this is pretty useless. You have to look at the big picture when it comes to this. They are really Suposed to be different, otherwise we'd have 'Generic Turret L' fitted on every Battleship etc etc. Absolutely true, but that ignores what the OP is asking for. Missiles are a LOW CHOICE weapon environment...and that is why everyone accuses missile users of "cookie cutter" setups...CCP only gave us one cookie cutter, so we all have to use it...look at what I mean; High Slot; In each grouping of Turret Size / Range, there are THREE variations of the same turret, with modified attributes and fitting costs, and the four named variants of each. In each grouping of Launcher Size / Range, there is ONE choice of missile launcher, together with it's named variants. Medium slot; For turrets : Target painter, Webber, tracking computer For launchers : Target painter, Webber Low slot; For Turrets : Damage mod, tracking subroutines For launchers : Damage mod I fully support the OP in his request...maybe not for modules affecting the stats he requested (they are right, we really don't NEED more range) but a module that decreased explosion radius and/or explosion velocity would be a good balance to the tracking computer/subroutines. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
CptEagle Gallente Stargate Command...	Posted - 2006.10.23 18:06:00 - [17] Signed, but only when missiles get nerfed abit just so that they need the extra mods to be as effective, just like gunners.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.23 18:17:00 - [18] If there was a mod besides the painters that affects the relation between target sig and missile exp radius, that would make missiles seriously overpowered against small ships once again (Some say they already are anyway). Ain't gunna happen, could just go back to pre-missilenerf times then, where torps did full damage to inties and stuff. Only way for more missile boost modules and keeping some balance is what the poster above me suggested, a general nerf to missile stats to offset the possible boost from the modules. I don't think you want THAT, do you? :P --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.23 18:21:00 - [19] A few mods for thought. 1) Mod 1 + Missile velocity - Missile time 2) Mod 2 + Missile velocity - Explosive velocity 3) Mod 3 - Missile velocity + Explosive velocity --------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind. Pax Caldaria.
Valhalior Caldari Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.23 18:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Leandro Salazar If there was a mod besides the painters that affects the relation between target sig and missile exp radius, that would make missiles seriously overpowered against small ships once again (Some say they already are anyway). Ain't gunna happen, could just go back to pre-missilenerf times then, where torps did full damage to inties and stuff. Only way for more missile boost modules and keeping some balance is what the poster above me suggested, a general nerf to missile stats to offset the possible boost from the modules. I don't think you want THAT, do you? :P No it is not what i need. But can you see a difference between full damage from a torp to a small ship and for example a 10 % from a mod? That's why a nice mod for missiles would be nice. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trader Phil	Posted - 2006.10.23 19:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 23/10/2006 17:39:40 Originally by: Trader Phil A tracking computer works infinitly better than a target painter for turrets. A tracking computer has no effect on the size of your target, so actually it works infinitly worse at that. I was saying that a target painter works just as well for turrets as for missile, they have the same effect, which is making the target appear bigger. You seem to forget the fact that turrets don't have a 100% hit chance, so it doesn't matter how big the signature of the target is if your guns are trailing behind your target.
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.10.23 20:11:00 - [22] Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 23/10/2006 20:12:07 Originally by: Trader Phil You seem to forget the fact that turrets don't have a 100% hit chance, so it doesn't matter how big the signature of the target is if your guns are trailing behind your target. Why are you talking about trailing behind? This is like talking about missiles being outrun. Fact of the matter is, that if you are capable of "making" the target bigger than your turret resolution, you will hit 100% of the time, not taking transversal velocity or optimal into consideration. This is why I said that target painters aid turrets just as much as missiles. EDIT: Oh, and you're right, turrets don't have a 100% hit chance, sometimes they have a 300% hit chance
Valhalior Caldari Beagle Corp R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:10:00 - [23] I want to remind that this topic is about a dedicated missile suystem - not target painters affecting all weapon types. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hex'Caliber Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 23/10/2006 20:12:07 Originally by: Trader Phil You seem to forget the fact that turrets don't have a 100% hit chance, so it doesn't matter how big the signature of the target is if your guns are trailing behind your target. Why are you talking about trailing behind? This is like talking about missiles being outrun. Fact of the matter is, that if you are capable of "making" the target bigger than your turret resolution, you will hit 100% of the time, not taking transversal velocity or optimal into consideration. This is why I said that target painters aid turrets just as much as missiles. EDIT: Oh, and you're right, turrets don't have a 100% hit chance, sometimes they have a 300% hit chance Quite easy to forget that a large portion of turret hits can and will be scratches, light hits, etc doing as little as 10% of our potential damage even on stationary targets at optimal range with no transversal (this is with motion prediction 5 trained and a tracking comp fitted). Or even missing completely even though both ships were stationary and sitting at optimal range, because I hear missile users complaining about this all the time, the simple fact is turrets NEVER hit 100% of the time. This even happens when firing at a huge ass station while stationary at optimal range, I cant even begin to explain the joy I feel every time this happens. I would love to see crits removed for turrets, then have turrets do 100% damage with every shot before taking resists into account. Trying to compare missiles and turrets is like comparing chalk and cheese, a pointless exercise. Regards HexCaliber
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Hex'Caliber I would love to see crits removed for turrets, then have turrets do 100% damage with every shot before taking resists into account. Trying to compare missiles and turrets is like comparing chalk and cheese, a pointless exercise. And yet you still insist on doing it by implying that missiles hit all the time is somehow an advantage, but neglect to mention that against 80% of targets in game, they do massively reduced damage due to sig radius and speed rules. I know what the op is asking for and it is this; Turret hits are in this range........{---------------------------------} Missile hits are in this range.......................{-------} The average for both is here...........................\| But the missiles have MUCH less flexibility. Thus because your enemies can more accurately judge what damage you will do to them, you are easier to fight. We don't want the average moving...we just want more variation between minimum and maximum. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:49:00 - [26] Originally by: CptEagle Signed, but only when missiles get nerfed abit just so that they need the extra mods to be as effective, just like gunners. Which assumes that turrets DO require those modules, which we could argue about forever and a day. Let me ask you this...in your opinion, are turrets and missiles currently balanced; 1. Before using any modules? 2. After using modules? --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:51:00 - [27] Explosion velocity = Webber. Oh look, they're not moving fast anymore! No outrunning the boom! Explosion radius = Painter. Oh look, he's magically bigger now! ---------- My sig is boring.
Dray Caldari Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:53:00 - [28] I'm caldari spec'd and I have to say I cant see a need for a mid slot item, there was a suggestion of a missile nerf and the introduction of mid slot items, but while its a good idea i wouldnt like to compromise a shield tank for a mod that might become "mandatory". As was already mentioned the secondary missile skills more than make up for a missing mid slot item, while there is also gunnery skills to supplement the job of a tracking computer the secondary missile skills have this covered and then some. Leave it be afaic.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.26 21:04:00 - [29] Edited by: Tovarishch on 26/10/2006 21:05:07 The thread responsible for the creation of this topic (and my answers) can be found here, in one of many of Tasty Burger's complaint threads. PS. I do not particularly feel that these mods need to exist unless missile countermeasures are created. If some type of missile countermeasure is created... then these two mods need to exist in order to create some parity. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:17:00 - [30] Since this thread is silly I want a 'I WIN' mod. When I equip it on my Missile boat it acts like a siege mode. My missiles fire 4 at a time from each launcher, the trade off is... nothing! ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!

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