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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.03 16:29:00 -
[1]
Where's the answers to the questions? I didn't honestly expect answers by Friday. Saturday was a bit more realistic. Sunday is pushing things a bit.
It's now Monday. End of business Monday in Iceland. And not a single response has been seen. Perhaps the problems and the lack of responses is indicative of the real problem:
A breakdown in communication between the developers and the playerbase.
That's your responsibility, now isn't it Pann?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Helison
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Posted - 2003.11.03 16:36:00 -
[2]
Some of the questions might be answered in the new dev blog from Hellmar.
BUT: Where is the rest? 
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.03 16:41:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Some of the questions might be answered in the new dev blog from Hellmar.
BUT: Where is the rest?
That answers nothing as far as I'm concerned.
As far as I'm concerned, while the questions go unanswered everything written in there is nothing more than bull****. How can anyone expect them to live up to the promise of better project management if they can't even answer 3 questions from each of the delegates in the last CSM session?
It's just more bull**** to puff up the fanbois
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Hellmar
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Posted - 2003.11.03 16:53:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2003.11.03 16:56:00 -
[5]
/me cheers for Hilmar
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:01:00 -
[6]
Hilmar = Master of Ownage (MoO) 
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Skaz
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Skaz on 03/11/2003 17:14:21
Hellmar, quite frankly his attitude is due to the fact that the answers were due on Friday......today is monday....thats 3 days OVERDUE....I wonder how those business methods have benefited you guys in the past
and he is right a breakdown in comms is evident by this post of yours....the first post by a dev in days and it's an answer to a hostile question?!?!?! (and your answer sounds like something furry crawled up your butt )
P.s.
to those that typed faster than me......fanbois 
There plenty of good questions out there being asked, ignoring hostile posts would be wiser IMHO, don't you think?
Reward the quiet behaved children, and ignore the loud angry ones (Children Psychology 101)
Doesn't change the fact that I'm incline to agree with Jash on this one.....
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:04:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
That depends, Hellmar...
Given that there has been nothing more said on the subject, you answered didn't you? 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Tease
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:04:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
Ok Hellmar, instead of chastising one of the CSM delegtes who was promised answers to submitted questions by no later than Friday morning, how 'bout you enlighten all us worthless peons. Since you're so well informed about the arrival time of these answers, I'm sure you won't mind providing us snivelling little CUSTOMERS with a legitimate reason why there's such a long delay in getting the answers to the questions Pann requested from each delegate.
Thanks in advance hun
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Captain Flex
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:15:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Captain Flex on 03/11/2003 17:15:39
All I have to say is that my account runs out in February and it's most likely that they won't be seeing a renewal. So keep it, keep us in the dark, people like myself will just get tired of all the BS and leave. I guess you guys don't mind not being payed!
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:22:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
Aha!
The good old "We've got enough time to say '**** off' but not enough time to answer questions as promised" tactic?
An ancient and venerable tactic that deserves a place in the other annals of:
"Most b0rked CM responses of all time!"
goes well with:
"So what.. when we've lost this many customers what does one more matter?"
and:
"How dare you expect us to stick to our promises..who do you think you are? A paying customer?"
Just kidding..
(hmm.......?)
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:25:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
Glad you ain't the community manager, MR grumpypants.
In my experience, if you don't ask for something, you won't get it.
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Lord Morgoth
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:26:00 -
[13]
Are you kidding...Asking Pann to actually do some work, is like asking the Dev's to juggle while typing the code using their nose's and doing backflips at the same time. Almost impoosible.
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agrizla
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:27:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
Cause? Ah right then we can all now assume that any communication to us peons is a privilege.
Who pays who here?
/emote applauds the best example of shooting yourself in the foot he has seen in years 
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Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:32:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
The answers will arrive shortly. Just like we will see new content "soon" right?
This one from the May 29th CSM
Quote:
Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar>we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found. I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with
2-3 weeks? Its been 5 months since then.
Then we have the issue about implants, sure we have them now, but at the time of the May 8th 2003 CSM we were told this
Quote:
<Wolfgang> *gaia-* Implants? Will they be implemented anytime soon? How is it going to work? When "fitting", will you be able to choose where on the body a curtain implant will be (such as brain, eyes, torso...) corresponding to its task? Some implant will affect attributes, others skills, or some both? Can you replace an implant with another once attached? Will Jove stations be the only place to get an implant in?
<Solaris_CCP> Implants are already implemented and are in testing and balancing currently. There are 5 "slots" to fit implants. Implants both boost attributes and give direct bonuses such as combat damage and ship speed. I say 2-3 weeks for implants
Ok, so they had things like Implants and Player structures already made, it was just bug testing. They also said 2-3 weeks, at that time, if we were too optimistic then we would have expected to see these things in a month and a half, 2 months tops. But its been over 5 months.
I'm sure we could all cut you developers some slack, but its hard to do it after you have followed the games website all the way to release, you have read rich background, and followed CSM chats expecting content, only to be left with a game that doesnt have the majority of the content and story it should have; the content and continuous storyline we should have had from the beggining.
CCP has a proven track record of failing to meet their own release dates (You cant even make your own Friday Deadline to CSM responses!) and provide new pieces of the story line and new content (Sure we just had the Amarr championship right now, but I remember Ouria, that came, ended abruptly, and then we were left with several weeks of nothing).
If the developers want us to stop busting their chops and cut them some slack, they need to be accountable for their game and start giving us reasons to cut them some slack.
Obviously this wont get me anywhere as you Developers run the show, but try seeing things from our perspective.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Locuila
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:34:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
I totally agree with Hellmar here. There's a way of asking questions to the people responsible for giving you game that you play, and the means with which to deploy it.
Kudos.
___________________________________
I love being podded. - Hampstah |
Tenzo
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:35:00 -
[17]
For GODS SAKE....!!!!
Stop *****ing at CCP and let them get on with it... yes it does annoy me that it things are running slow and behind....we are desperate for new content, new aims..
But for the love of god STOP *****ing at them on the goodamn forums and think of something constructive to say...
That it turn wil stop peeps like me *****ing at you!
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Cliff Yablonski
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:41:00 -
[18]
Perhaps now you see why devs don't come to the forums..
communication, comunication.
blah, look at how you treat them..
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EvilEric
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:41:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
OK folks here it is.... the new.. improved.. "soon(tm)"
"SHORTLY(tm)"... Now with added arrogance.
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Gildon
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:43:00 -
[20]
Unbelievable.
CCP 'promises' answers, doesn't deliver - Jash calls em out on it (harshly yes, but hell 5 mos of promises not delivered to your customers CREATES harshness)
and Hellmar takes time out to say screw off? (and then leaves without any real answers?)
Again, I say unbelievable.
Hellmar - question to you. We were promised answers and its now 3 days LATE.
WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO HELP US WITH BY REPLYING THAT WAY? I'm not sure I even understand why you'd take the time out to act like Jash's dad and reprimand him .... Are you trying to help? Trying to deflect? How about just go get the answers.
Gil
seriously - why am I starting to feel like 'I should feel lucky ccp LETS me pay and play this game.' something is terribly wrong.
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Locuila
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:45:00 -
[21]
And then you guys wonder why there's very little interaction between the dev's and the customerbase. We got people like Jash (who have no idea the resources needed to implement content) posting aggressive topics demanding answers.
As soon as the devs throw you a bone, you guys go nuts over what hasn't been done, as opposed to what has.
It's like...yay i got 90% on my exam...well where's the other 10%?
The issue here is not that you're asking questions, that is your right. The issue is the manner in which you portray yourself.
Better to keep your mouth shut and to appear wise, than to open it and remove all doubt.
___________________________________
I love being podded. - Hampstah |
Skaz
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:49:00 -
[22]
Quote:
It's like...yay i got 90% on my exam...well where's the other 10%?
except we got 10% and we're yelling for the promised 90%.......
What's happening is the fact that when they communicate it's like they're in another fantasy world where there are no problems, we're just asking for things that we were promised......and they haven't delivered.....k?
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:51:00 -
[23]
Edited by: j0sephine on 03/11/2003 17:54:19
And then you guys wonder why there's very little interaction between the dev's and the customerbase. We got people like Jash (who have no idea the resources needed to implement content) posting aggressive topics demanding answers."
... I think to some extent you have the cause and the effect backwards here -- people are getting angry and demanding because they are feeling ignored and left in the dark with lil' to no explanation.
For examples how the communication can be done, check the Missions section and some older 'balancing' threads in the Ships and Modules section -- surprisingly enough, having a developer take some time to explain what they are doing has good effect on people attitudes, and sometimes even results in useful feedback instead of *****in'...
(for what's worth, the most recent update in the Dev Blog is much appreciated -- didn't even know they have the groundwork for tech.2 done, as there's no sign of it on Chaos... which was creating impression the development is really, really slow...)
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:51:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Hellmar on 03/11/2003 16:53:48
I don't know if this attitude has worked well for you to achieve results in the past Jash Illian but I can assure you it's not helping your cause here.
The answers will arrive shortly.
I totally agree with Hellmar here. There's a way of asking questions to the people responsible for giving you game that you play, and the means with which to deploy it.
Kudos.
1) Nobody is giving me anything. I'm paying to play this game.
2) I asked last Wednesday. This is now Monday. For all intents and purposes given the amount of communication on the subject, despire others asking between Wednesday and today, the issue had been ignored.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Keefus
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:51:00 -
[25]
Weeeeeehhheeee what aload of tosh :D
its game, Its gots problems and ur still playing? why?
BECAUSE u like the game! now Stop whinning! and go kill something in the Game, NPC or PC :P
no more Stress!
------------------------------------------------
mmmmm Carrot juice! |
EvilEric
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Posted - 2003.11.03 17:54:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Perhaps now you see why devs don't come to the forums..
communication, comunication.
blah, look at how you treat them..
Treat THEM!?! and how about how they treat us?... the 1st real bit of info and the CS Manager is nowhere to be seen.... comms, comms.... bah!
They wouldn't know the meaning of communication even if the professor of english at Oxford univercity flew to Iceland to explain in great detail over many months what it meant.!!!
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.03 18:02:00 -
[27]
Quote:
End of business Monday in Iceland.
Ermm... isnŠt Pann living somewhere in america?
Mai's Idealog |
Skaz
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Posted - 2003.11.03 18:05:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Quote:
End of business Monday in Iceland.
Ermm... isnŠt Pann living somewhere in america?
She has to get the answers from the devs in Iceland........
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.11.03 18:16:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/11/2003 18:18:15
Jash cares about the game and the players and the community, and he cares about getting answers. He is, in short, a good CSM rep.
Sometimes even friends shout at each other to thrash things out.
To the people trashing Jash for pushing for answers consider this ...
Would it be better for Eve to just shut up and slink away when the subscription runs out?
I don't think so,
A healthy community is built on a good relationship between developers, community managers, gms, and the player base.
We are all equal participants in this great endeavour.
For my preference, the days of the divine developer "gods" getting away with acting like the great "i am" and behaving like spoiled pop-idol brats went out with that idiot with the ferrari who helped program Quake and went onto crash and burn with Daikatana ...
Takes communication and mutual respect these days.
I'm confident we will get there in the end.
But sometimes it takes hard questions to get the answers everyone needs to hear to keep their faith and spirits up.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Fencer
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Posted - 2003.11.03 18:22:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Fencer on 03/11/2003 18:38:00
who said which friday they talking about, maybe they meant by friday 2004.
jeesh, people stop moanin and whizzin already
after all is just a game and if there speical customer pets don't get stroked everyday, is no big deal to the thousands of others who play this game daily
if your sub runs out and you don't wanna renew don't, just quit whinning about it on these furoms
and no I don't want all your stuff, let it be recycled and added back into game
ROFL
as to Hellmar's statement. could have been worded better, then again he could just PM'd him and told him to cool his jets.
kuddus to Hellmar for saying it like it is
My alt hates me, I don't know why. he won't even talk to me anymore |
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