2. We want people to feel that they aren't at an impossible disadvantage over the 11 year old vet (when in fact they really are).

- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit. And lower tier skills (ex. [Racial] Frigate) are very quick to train relative to more advanced skills.


- (*this is the important one*) Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time.

Ex1: You are a newbie facing someone with about 20 million SP... but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills.
Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.

[quote=Saint Michaels Soul]
2. We want people to feel that they aren't at an impossible disadvantage over the 11 year old vet (when in fact they really are).

This really belongs in the SP remap/buying sticky at the top. Don't expect a positive response though as it's been suggested before in many forms.

Buggerit, you're right.

Can a mod move this to the correct place? *does embarrassed face*

the only SP barrier is in options nothing else you can fly a fully maxed frig in just over 3 months (yes including support skills)

one capable of holding its own in so PvP after just over a week

and one capable of supporting a fleet in just a few hours

"The Skillpoint System and You"

I agree, if you want to be an f1 monkey for Brave (not picking on Brave specifically, they're just the best current example!) you can be useful in a day or so. This approach really appeals to some players, but its only one tiny facet of PVP in Eve.

I'm just suggesting giving new players a little boost to the SP ofL "one capable of holding its own in so PvP after just over a week". Its worth noting no new player (I'm not talking about a new toon for an established player) can hold their own in any kind of pvp after a week, there are too many other real-world skills involved.

The link you supply has some valid points on it. However in a game where everyone is seeking that last tiny fractional advantage its an utter myth to suggest that versatility in what a pilot can fly and fit doesn't give a huge advantage over a pilot without those skills. I would go as far as suggesting (in a mildly tinfoil hat manner) that it's propaganda created by higher SP toons, to keep the noob victim production line producing optimistic and docile victims :D

no not to just be some brave F1 monkey you can go out and be light tackle in a small gang or a scout or bait and much much more

and no that tiny advantage only makes a difference if you are piloting with the same skill

The problem is the perception, versus the reality.

The skills race is the lie "elite" players sell newer players so they can exclude them from their epeen club.

the only SP barrier is in options nothing else you can fly a fully maxed frig in just over 3 months (yes including support skills)

one capable of holding its own in so PvP after just over a week

no not to just be some brave F1 monkey you can go out and be light tackle in a small gang or a scout or bait and much much more

..for a fact from CCP that a huge number of players never even work out how to train a skill.

Every MMO has some kind of skills system. Eve's isn't really that complex - it's flatter and wider than most I have encountered. If a player can't figure out how to train a skill in Eve, there may be no helping him - CCP can't patch stupid/lazy/immediate gratification.

Another problem is that new players come from MMOs they need to be LvL 80 to be competitive in PvP so they bring that mindset with them to EvE

Although I'd love to see everyone getting into PVP I know this is either something that new players either want to do or don't and it takes a long time to turn the latter into the former. I can't quote extensive knowledge from lots of other MMO's as Eve is the only that piques my interest; Its the only one where forms of behaviour aren't programatically prevented (I probably give WOW/GW2 a go if you could just decide to stab the bloke in the mob next to you and nick all his kit....there's just no risk as they stand, so it's boring).

However your point, which seems solid, doesn't really offer a counter to my suggestion that this would be a great introduction, even with just a few thousand SP to spend, to the skill queue and would help lower the perceived barrier to PVP entry.

your idea will not help new players anymore than the SP boosters already do and will just serve as a way for experienced players to get alts up faster.

I think the easiest way to equalize the SP and experience levels among players is to have everyone initially subscribe to the game in 2006. Everything would be pretty much even that way.

I agree completely :)

Personally, It would have been nice to have heard of Eve Online before the Dust beta was released in 2012 (my first introduction to the universe), but that'll teach me for concentrating on console gaming back then - A mistake I'm not likely to repeat!

I think the thing folks don't get is havine more SP in eve doesn't make you better, it just gives you more options on what you can fly. I agree that more options are better, but more options don't make you better.

Sure, more options are never a bad thing.

The examples cited above whereby noobs are useful within a week, all require focus, understanding and guidance from players to fill a very specific niche combat role. My suggestion gives new players a little nudge in the right direction without being prescriptive, or particularly abusable by older players.

I realise that can be a good argument against a small amount of reform in the SP system; I've tried to address that by suggesting this should be for new accounts, optionally ones that are subbed, not created with PLEX.

The majority of high SP toons I know pay for everything with PLEX but I'm prepared to bet that there are quite a few that don't too and yes, this suggestion could allow this percentage of players to mildly game the system. That newly created toon still needs to spend 10.95 years catching up.

This seems like a small price to pay, from my point of view.

The examples cited above whereby noobs are useful within a week, all require focus, understanding and guidance from players to fill a very specific niche combat role. My suggestion gives new players a little nudge in the right direction without being prescriptive, or particularly abusable by older players.

I will also add that balancing purely around or because of perception is never a good idea.

Why?

You know how when you punish your kid/cousin/nephew/niece when he/she does something bad? Or you can't let him/her do something because they are not experienced enough or smart enough?

That kid doesn't understand why he/she is being punished/denied. And even if he/she does they think it is unfair. And it is. But it helps them grow and mature so that they won't do bad things and understand what they can and cannot do.

It's the same principle here. Welcome to being a kid again!

You know how when you punish your kid/cousin/nephew/niece when he/she does something bad? Or you can't let him/her do something because they are not experienced enough or smart enough?

That kid doesn't understand why he/she is being punished/denied. And even if he/she does they think it is unfair. And it is. But it helps them grow and mature so that they won't do bad things and understand what they can and cannot do.

However your point, which seems solid, doesn't really offer a counter to my suggestion that this would be a great introduction, even with just a few thousand SP to spend, to the skill queue and would help lower the perceived barrier to PVP entry.

A newbie isn't going to learn PvP on their own. They NEED people to help them, teach them, etc. The skill system effectively forces this reliance..

Giving out free SP will do absolutely nothing to change anyone's perception. They'll simply insist that the barrier still exists, and that they still need more SP.

Forum rules

17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.