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Aelle Vane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.31 15:58:39 -
[1] - Quote
on 7th of April i will begin my EVE Online Career and knowing myself, i will not see the light of day for the next few months.
But i keep changing my mind every 5 minutes on which Race(Ships) and Weapons i will work on first so i can do Both PVE and PVP with a Corp.
I Have Managed to narrow it down to Amarr and Caldari (Gallente are cool but i don't like Hybrids) (Rusty/Sun Panel race are just yuck lol)
I Need your advice and Opinions on ships/Weapons at this stage in the game so i can finally decide which road i will pick.
******************* (I will be Gallente but i want to train into 1 of these)
Amarr:
I Love Lasers and the idea of Armor tanking but being limited to just 2 Damage Types can be a problem and i'm sure being in Gallente space can effect me later on when fighting stronger NPCs but i also read that Lasers are good in PVP and Armor is more welcome then Shields because At the moment Gallente are top dogs in PVP and they use Armor. (I Don't Like Drones)
Problem: The Thing that is putting me off going with Amarr is the Stealth Bomber... I Love the idea of the Stealth Bomber but the Amarr 1 is ugly as hell so i would prefer to go with the Caldari or Gallente but how much time would i lose training for another race's Stealth Bomber.
*********
Caldari:
I Like Missiles because of the Range, Damage and the fact that you have all 4 damage types but i have read many times that Missiles arnt used in PVP because of the travel time.
*********
- I Know i could train both but i want to work on 1 first so i can get straight into big ISK Making and PVP with a Corp soooo i really need some Opinions on.
Missiles & Lasers
Armor & Shields
Caldari & Amarr (Ships)
Caldari & Amarr in Gallente Space.
*********
Opinions on Ships at this stage in the Game.
- Raven and Navy Issue Raven
- Drake
- Oracle
- Absolution
-Abaddon
- Talos
-Kronos
(Sorry if this is alot to ask but i have been changing my mind several times a day and with only a week to go until i start my main character i would really like to make a final Decision |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3532
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:06:55 -
[2] - Quote
You are aware that your starting race and faction choices are purely aesthetic right? You can train into anything on any character. Pick whatever race you find mot interesting aesthetically, or roleplaying wise and train into whatever ships you like.
There are useful ships in every class, as well as every race, if you focus on combat, PVE or PVP, you're going to be cross training at some point.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2709
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Posted - 2015.03.31 16:12:11 -
[3] - Quote
What was said above is true, you may start out with one racial type but eventually you will train them all. There are pirate faction ships that demand dual race skills to be decently flown.
Specialization is for insects
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9258
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Posted - 2015.03.31 17:17:11 -
[4] - Quote
It's in your interest to cross train at this point. train all the frigates, small/light weapon/drone systems, shield and armour skills to 3 (or at least the things you like the sound of) have some fun and see what you like. specializing takes time and I don't recommend it until you know you actually like the role.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
263
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Posted - 2015.03.31 19:38:44 -
[5] - Quote
My advise is dependent on what your immediate goals are:
- Want to be solo effective in PVP very soon and don't mind having to start over to branch out (guns)? -----> Caldari Rocket Kestrel
- Want to be solo effective in PVP (soonish) and would rather have a steeper learning curve now and easy transition later? ---? amar executioner.
- PVE is very possible with any race, so don't let that color your opinion too much at this stage. That said, Caldari missile ships are mission easy buttons ( that can be very bad too if you bore easily ). |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1122
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Posted - 2015.03.31 19:39:56 -
[6] - Quote
Aelle Vane wrote: Amarr:
I Love Lasers and the idea of Armor tanking but being limited to just 2 Damage Types can be a problem and i'm sure being in Gallente space can effect me later on when fighting stronger NPCs but i also read that Lasers are good in PVP and Armor is more welcome then Shields because At the moment Gallente are top dogs in PVP and they use Armor. (I Don't Like Drones)
Problem: The Thing that is putting me off going with Amarr is the Stealth Bomber... I Love the idea of the Stealth Bomber but the Amarr 1 is ugly as hell so i would prefer to go with the Caldari or Gallente but how much time would i lose training for another race's Stealth Bomber.
Lasers in gallente space isn't all that bad. Thermal is most gallente affiliated rats' secondary weakness and EM generally the second strongest so you're at a small disadvantage but not huge.
Armour is preferred in larger fleets for a variety of reasons, ones I won't list them all but it's a well-known fact and has been practised over years.
As for stealth bombers, Frigate 5 is a short train and you just need that skill, plus the covert ops skill to fly a race's bomber.
Aelle Vane wrote:Caldari:
I Like Missiles because of the Range, Damage and the fact that you have all 4 damage types but i have read many times that Missiles arnt used in PVP because of the travel time.
Missiles aren't used in large fleet battles and rarely above battlecruiser sized ships. This is due to a variety of reasons as well, however missiles are extremely potent in the small to medium hull sizes and 90% of fights in eve will be using those hulls.
Aelle Vane wrote:- I Know i could train both but i want to work on 1 first so i can get straight into big ISK Making and PVP with a Corp soooo i really need some Opinions on.
Missiles & Lasers
Armor & Shields
Caldari & Amarr (Ships)
Caldari & Amarr in Gallente Space.
*********
Opinions on Ships at this stage in the Game.
- Raven and Navy Issue Raven
- Drake
- Oracle
- Absolution
-Abaddon
- Talos
-Kronos
(Sorry if this is alot to ask but i have been changing my mind several times a day and with only a week to go until i start my main character i would really like to make a final Decision
Missiles are great for pve, selectable damage types with the addition of not having to worry about tracking mechanics = truly new player friendly. Only downsides to it are basically making sure your application to small targets isn't too poor. This requires some ewar modules and specific rigs but it's really not that big a deal.
Lasers are great also, but obviously limited in the ways you're already aware of. They really do excel when you're hitting EM weak rats though.
Armour and shields both have their advantages and disadvantages. All have viable ships to be used with, most of the time it's obvious which one should be used, sometimes not.
Caldari ships are the "heavy shields" kind of style. You'll find that they're on the slower end but regularly have bonuses to shield resistance and in general have higher shield capacity than most other ships.
Amarr is the same but for armour, slow and heavy but very resilient.
Obviously exceptions are present, but this is the general trend.
Raven/navy issue: great pve boats, rarely seen in pvp due to large missiles being extremely slow and don't apply well to small targets.
Drake: fantastic starter ship, big hp means it leaves a lot of room for error.
Oracle, bit more specialised, medium hull with large weapons means a lot of DPS but very fragile tank. Can be used as snipers or just raw DPS if you feel you're safe.
Absolution, extremely strong laser platform versatile and powerful.
abaddon, limited uses these days especially now since battleships are less and less used.
talos, same thing as the oracle, however it's tracking bonus allows it to engage smaller targets comfortably
Kronos, rare to see one of these since other marauders are more useful
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Aelle Vane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.31 23:37:20 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for all the reply's.
I May still change my mind several times before the 7th but i think i am leaning more towards Lasers and Amarr ships.
As much as i like Missiles i don't want to focus on them at the start because i hope to join a UK Based Corp and enjoy the game with people rather then alone.
*********
I Have been using Hybrid's on Gallente ships and found it quite enjoyable so i do have some questions.
What is the maximum Range i can hope to get with Blasters. (All main Gallente ships)
Are Railguns good at this point?
Do Gallente have to use Drones to be effective?
*********
The Absolution makes me wonna play Amarr and use Lasers and i will most likely end up playing them because of what (Tsukino Stareine) Said so u may have solved my nightmare... I Hope lol.
Last Question: What is the best ship to use as Amarr with Scorch ammo that i have heard so much about?
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Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
119
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Posted - 2015.03.31 23:45:49 -
[8] - Quote
Aelle Vane wrote:Last Question: What is the best ship to use as Amarr with Scorch ammo that i have heard so much about? Any pulse laser boat. The Armageddon, for example. You might want to look into the T3 destroyer, Confessor. I don't know if it's usually pulse fit or beam fit, but it's quite overpowered now and not a hard train.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4751
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Posted - 2015.03.31 23:57:25 -
[9] - Quote
At the risk of being flamed by critics that rightly suggest specializing is a good training path for rookies to consider....
I want to point out that it isn't the only possible training path in EVE.
What training path you decide on is entirely up to you!
Example: I myself am a jack-of-all-trades, i.e. I'm a non-specialist. I happily accept that I'll lag behind specialists in the depth of their training, as the cost of allowing me to do a wider range of different things.
Without attribute implants, and with default attributes (i.e. really sub-optimal and slow, so it can be done faster than this):
* Time to train all races of T1 frigate / destroyer / cruiser / battlecruiser / battleship to level 3: 17d 20h 52s * Time to train T1 small / medium / large / hybrid / laser / projectile turrets & support skills to level 3: 13d 11h 39m 30s * Time to train T1 rockets / heavy assault / torpedoes / light / heavy / cruise missiles & support skills to level 3: 12d 23h 6m 40s
Of course you'll want other skills too, for fitting rigs, defenses, using drones, and such.
Still in 18 + 14 + 13 = 45 days or less, one could be using a large number of ships, including all Navy and Pirate ships. |
Aelle Vane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 00:28:26 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks again for replies.
Tau Cabalander - Lol Wow that is awesome that you know that.
My plan at the moment is to focus on Amarr ships so i can use them how they are meant to be used.
Once i feel like i have learnt everything for Amarr ships i will then work on my Stealth Bomber which i'm guessing will mean unlocking Ships for either Caldari or Gallente and increasing my Missile skills overall. *******
Question:
Manticore or Nemesis? which is better at the moment.
********
If anyone has anymore Opinion's on ships and weapons i would love to hear them.
(Not that is matters but i am a wallet warrior and ISK will not be a problem for me so if you wish to post Ship builds that i can copy and paste into word or somit for later dates that would be great. :) )
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L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
264
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Posted - 2015.04.01 00:36:41 -
[11] - Quote
Re: bombers
My guess is that for 99% of all Eve players, stealth bomber is driven by racial frigate of choice rather than a specific bomber.
Im sure that some specialized groups will be able to go into the minutia differences, pros cons etc between each one, but most others simply need to know what type bomb the rest of the fleet is loading.
My pref is manticore for the ease of fitting. But it's damage is generally considered to be subpar as kinetic only. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
460
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 01:10:40 -
[12] - Quote
If you stick to small and medium and especially if you just stick to cruiser and lower you can train all 4 races in not too much time at all. Battleships and large weapons take a long time. I would stay general and try several different ships out. Once you figure out what you like then you can specialize. Level 3 is good enough for now. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9272
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 01:15:35 -
[13] - Quote
actually amarr have some glorious missile ships, the Sacrilege and Legion (tec II and III) being notable ones.
again though, cross training is easy for you at this point,a couple of days at most, for me it would take weeks if not months to do so.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
554
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Posted - 2015.04.01 02:01:54 -
[14] - Quote
Living in Gallente space, it will be slightly easier/cheaper to find Amarr-compatible gear than Caldari, typically, though not by a broad margin. On the other hand, it's usually slightly easier/cheaper to find Caldari _ships_.
Beyond that, I'd pick based more on PvE tanking than anything else. If you prefer active control/management of your tank go Amarr, if you prefer tanking based more on building stuff, turning it on, and forgetting about it go Caldari. Both weapons systems work fine in Gallente missions and PvP; you'll run into issues with lasers when Angels missions drop, but Amarr have missile boats as well for backup.
The Stealth Bombers are almost literally identical apart from favored damage type, and that's generally selected based on target and/or what you already have skill-wise.
Basically the short version here is flip a coin, you can always eventually train both if you later decide you chose 'wrong'. The important thing early on is that you pick one and stick with it a bit, not _which_ one you pick. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4752
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Posted - 2015.04.01 02:37:03 -
[15] - Quote
Aelle Vane wrote:Tau Cabalander - Lol Wow that is awesome that you know that. EVEmon is my co-pilot. |
erg cz
Tribal Core
153
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Posted - 2015.04.01 07:31:01 -
[16] - Quote
1. You will stare at your ship A LOT. So I decided the race by look of the ships and I liked most Gallente and Amarr. Caldari looks like Lego toys (partly fixed in last few patches); Minmatar like garbage, that is pulled together by adhesive tape. 2. If you aim to combat PVE you need to be able to put different kinds of damage. Drones is Gallente / Amarr way to do this , missiles is caldari / minamtar. But true drone race is gallente, true missile race are caldari. Mix of both gives you Rattlesnake - one of the very best PvE battleships. 3. Amarr weapons do not require additional ammo. That means instant adaption of range (crystalls swap in no time) and zero ammunition costs after you buy your first set of standard crystalls.
Those are best PvE battleships so far, IMHO: Maradeurs (specialized for missions, but long time to train) Machariel (close up brawler, very demanding for personal combat skill of the pilot; lots of adrenaline) Rattlesnake (sniper fit with missiles and sentry drones can do up to 900 DPS at 100 km range even with not all V skills) Dominix (cheap and versatile, very effective sniper platform)
Since expensive ships tends to be attacked even in high sec, I stay with Dominix. With its unique bonus to optimal range of sentry drones it can target and fire even from 150 km and it will still in optimal of Warden II sentry drones. You can put up to 3 tachyon beam lasers there so your drones do not need to switch to frigate ships so often. If frigate has to burn 150 km toward you even the limited damage and awefull tracking of unbonused large turrets can deal with them (they have papar thin tank any way)
Be aware, that there is no good amarr mission agents in gallente space, but quite a few caldari agents. If you ever decide to join PvP the only mechanism, that gives you at least illusion of match making is factional warfare. So it will gallente / minmatar or amarr / caldari space you will have to stay in. |
Justin Zaine
220
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Posted - 2015.04.01 12:11:59 -
[17] - Quote
If you think that the Amarr bomber is the worst looking, keep in mind that it's generally considered to be one of the two best bombers (Caldari and Gallente being the 3rd and 4th best but not necessarily in that order.)
Gallente: IMO they are the best "Covert" race. If you're interested in cloaky PVP then Gallente is the way to go, for the following reasons: Proteus, Nemesis, Sin. Gallente Recons (Lach and Arazu) are pretty mean and are great in the Hunter Killer role for blops fleets with the 40+km point.
They also have a fantastic frigate lineup with the Tristan, Incursus and the Comet among others.
Amarr: They're strong all-around. They armor tank like Gallente, use drones like Gallente and also have some good covert ships, but their T3 (Legion) sucks in that role. It is, however, great with HAM's.
IMO Amarr truly shine in the larger ship classes. Archon is king of Carriers, they have a beastly BS lineup with the Abaddon, Apoc and Armageddon, and the Avatar is the best Titan. Silly of me to even bring that up in a noob help thread but still, gotta mention it.
If you like the idea of cap warfare, the Pilgrim and Curse are great for solo hunting.
They also have great cruisers and a couple good frigates such as the Slicer and Executioner.
All in all, Gallente and Amarr skills complement each other well. Each race is in a strong position at the moment and the areas where you find one race lacking, the other does a good job of making up for it.
He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
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Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
220
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Posted - 2015.04.01 12:58:22 -
[18] - Quote
just go caldari? cross train l8r |
Aelle Vane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 14:46:56 -
[19] - Quote
I Have ruled out Caldari.
Reason: While i love Missiles i feel that in Gallente space PVP Battles small or Big will be made up of Armored ships so i would be the odd 1 out using shields and because Missiles are not as welcome in PVP. (I Will still work on Stealth Bombers but after i have trained the skills needed to fly the ships i want)
*********
Saying that i have not 100% ruled out my problem lol... i still love the Amarr and lasers but i have also been playing with Gallente and Railguns so i do have some questions.
********* Questions:
Gellente:
Do i need to use Drones to be most effective?
Railguns:
What are they like in PVP?
What is the kind of range i can hope to get?
Are they welcome in Small Gang PVP?
Blasters:
What kind of range can i hope to get?
Are they welcome in small Gang PVP?
How do you take on people that have insane range while you don't?
Caldari:
What are the 2 Damage types the Caldari rats are weak against? (Just incase the corp i join is based in Caldari)
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9279
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:24:52 -
[20] - Quote
Aelle Vane wrote:PVP Battles small or Big will be made up of Armored ships so i would be the odd 1 out using shields and because Missiles are not as welcome in PVP.
none of that is true
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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Aelle Vane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:36:54 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:none of that is true
What i have said is just from what i have read rather then personal experience.
Care to perhaps explain more instead of posting a non helpful comment. |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3539
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:45:34 -
[22] - Quote
Aelle Vane wrote:Quote:none of that is true What i have said is just from what i have read rather then personal experience. Care to perhaps explain more instead of posting a non helpful comment. Easy there.
It's true because armor and shield tanking are different and have different strengths. You don't Fit 1600mm Armor Plates to a ship meant for kiting, you fit Shield Extenders, or Active Shield tanking modules, because shield tanks don't increase your mass.
Armor Tanks generally let you get more utility out of your ship (more mid slots for EWAR) at the expense of speed, and shield tanks let you squeeze more damage and or speed out of a ship, at the expense of less utility.
Everything has it's place in EVE. Missiles too, they can be terrifying in the right situation. For example a Caracal/Bellicose with Rapid lights is going to east frigates for breakfast, fast tackle beware!
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Aelle Vane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:57:08 -
[23] - Quote
Azda Ja - Thank you for your reply.
My Comment was in no means meant to be rude and i apologize if that was the case.
I Just prefer it if the comments have a explanation.
********** Starting to really like Gallente lol (I Wish my mind wasn't so indecisive.
Is this a good Fit for a Thorax?
Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large Shield Extender II Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3539
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:03:37 -
[24] - Quote
Aelle Vane wrote:
Is this a good Fit for a Thorax?
You posted before I could finish editing my post above, but the edit answers this in part.
You shouldn't ask "Is this a good fit?", but "Is this fit good for _________?"
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Aelle Vane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:07:10 -
[25] - Quote
"Is this fit good for Solo PvP"
"is this fit good for Small Gang PVP"
SHIP: Thorax
Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large Shield Extender II Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3539
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:21:09 -
[26] - Quote
Aelle Vane wrote:"Is this fit good for Solo PvP"
"is this fit good for Small Gang PVP"
Better .
But you have to go even deeper than that. Solo/Small gang, fine, but where? Lowsec FW complexes? Null sec roams? Wormholes?
Also, if you're in a gang, what do your fleet mates fly? Does your fit complement theirs? Does it cover another's weaknesses?
There is a mountain of variables to take into account. Obviously you're new, so it'll take a while to understand a lot of this. I just wanted to explain why you may have trouble getting answers to some of your questions, and why some of the suppositions you had were wrong.
EVE PVP tactics are Rock Paper Scissors designed by a satanic Rain Man. That complexity is part of why so many of us are obsessed with theorycrafting fits and tactics, it's incredibly stimulating. Sometimes when I log in, I don't even really play, I'll just be debating the merits of a fit or tactic with a friend until 5 am. I'm not even an expert, I know just enough to understand how much I have left to learn.
I hope these kinds of things hook you onto EVE as well .
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3540
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Regarding the fit you posted specifically. It's ok. Personally I'd Armor Tank a thorax if I were to Brawl with it and add a second web, the short range on blasters means you need to be right on top of them, the shield tank means you're not too slow, but the single web and not very strong tank could be a problem. If however we had shield logistics and someone with Webs in a small gang, then you could use this pretty well in certain circumstances.
I do want to point out that you'd be better off getting started with PvP in frigates, they're far cheaper, effective in the right context/with enough numbers, and they'll get you used to the fact that your ships are highly disposable.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9279
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:31:18 -
[28] - Quote
Aelle Vane wrote:Quote:none of that is true What i have said is just from what i have read rather then personal experience. Care to perhaps explain more instead of posting a non helpful comment. My apologies, I should indeed have elaborated.
you will find shield ships everywhere, regardless of regional origin. what has a greater impact is the Corp fleet doctrine which varies from Corp to Corp you can (and do) find almost anything in PvP, my corps one is primarily armour but there's usually one or two shield ships in fleet because they fill their role better than their armour counterpart.
The only instance I know of where missiles are frowned upon is incursions where their travel time is considered a negative. in almost all other cases missiles are as viable an option as turrets , you lose some dps but you gain selectable damage and will in most cases land you hits.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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Aelle Vane
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:33:29 -
[29] - Quote
Azda Ja - Thanks again for your replies they're very helpful.
Thank you for all the replies its nice to know EVE has a helpful community. |
GordonO
Evil Guinea Pigs
103
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Posted - 2015.04.01 22:54:39 -
[30] - Quote
You really should stop worrying about what corp you join and where it is based. You really can't go wrong with missiles, they are used everywhere for a reason. If you look at the kill boards you will see that the orthorus which uses missiles is probably the top ship. The biggest reason missiles are not used in large fleet fights is because of firewalling.. yea its a thing, and in incursions because of contesting. Caldari also use rail guns. You should train what you think you like to fly when you start the game. I have started many toons in EVE and the ones that started with missiles have been the most useful in the early day, ie drake for wh's then a tengu for wh's and missioning.. nerf or not.. its still the top go to for pve.
Anyway, up to you.. but forget about where you going to join a corp..
EVGP Is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=412227
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