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Is bm exploit still working?

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Carl Zeiss Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.24 12:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Carl Zeiss on 24/10/2006 12:59:19 I constantly see kills like this: http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=kill&id=104328 What is the reason to transport bms? ------------ Which slot do I use for an exotic dancer?
Faraelle Brightman Gallente Placid Reborn Placid Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:07:00 - [2] I understand you can only copy 5 bookmarks at a time now. However it kinda sucks that you can't attach a bookmark or bookmarks into, say, an eve-mail to share them instead of having to physicaly transport them...
Hippo117 Caldari Wings of Redemption 9th Fleet	Posted - 2006.10.24 13:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Faraelle Brightman I understand you can only copy 5 bookmarks at a time now. However it kinda sucks that you can't attach a bookmark or bookmarks into, say, an eve-mail to share them instead of having to physicaly transport them... Bookmarks could be completely eliminated from being put in cargo if you could send them directly to someone (assuming they could choose to accept them or not). Less info between serer and client about copying them, trading them, and then loading them, as it would all be server side. Thus the need to copy sets at a pos in 0.0 becomes moot as thered be a faster way. Copying at a pos is the only reason I see for having them in cargo (and even at that i was under the impression you couldnt jump with many bookmarks anyway as it was an exploit). -------------- Booby > Rokh
Carl Zeiss Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.24 14:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Hippo117 Originally by: Faraelle Brightman I understand you can only copy 5 bookmarks at a time now. However it kinda sucks that you can't attach a bookmark or bookmarks into, say, an eve-mail to share them instead of having to physicaly transport them... Bookmarks could be completely eliminated from being put in cargo if you could send them directly to someone (assuming they could choose to accept them or not). Less info between serer and client about copying them, trading them, and then loading them, as it would all be server side. Thus the need to copy sets at a pos in 0.0 becomes moot as thered be a faster way. Copying at a pos is the only reason I see for having them in cargo (and even at that i was under the impression you couldnt jump with many bookmarks anyway as it was an exploit). But isn't that true that you can keep them in your ppl&places (in separate folder) and when you need to share just take them from there to your buddy(not copying, just moving)? ------------ Which slot do I use for an exotic dancer?
Yumi Katanawe Caldari Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:22:00 - [5] BM's are the eve's cluster kryptonite. Anyways, these could be bm's to corp/alliance safespots and he was handling them to the buyer =D
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 15:29:00 - [6] Just remove BMs, add 0km warp option.. end of story really, there is no chance you gonna catch someone using BMs unless you have a dictor or bubble anyway.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.24 16:20:00 - [7] warp to 0km is a great idea, it wouldnt even effect anything in gameplay at all because the Autopilot could be 15km hardlocked. and in 0.0 people use bubbles anyway. and in low sec the gate campers dont count, they can go get targets the old fashioned way. hunt them.
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.10.24 16:24:00 - [8] lol -V- alliance parking shuttles with bookmarks in them. wait.... wasnt this what -V-, LV and ASCN accused the Reds of doing, and called it lame and exploiting? Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.24 16:35:00 - [9] There NO plausible reason to transport a large number of bookmarks in our cargo hold... ever. Don't be foolish.
Ikonz Loot	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Carl Zeiss Which slot do I use for an exotic dancer? Which exotic dancer slot do I use? Fixed ur sig Sig removed, inappropriate content - Cortes Since when are boobies inappropriate??
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:26:00 - [11] Helping out the disabled poster
ElCholo Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Kunming Just remove BMs, add 0km warp option.. end of story really, there is no chance you gonna catch someone using BMs unless you have a dictor or bubble anyway. I dont like a 'warp to 0km' option, I'd rather they tie it to the warp drive operation skill, say 15km base for lv0, then decreasing by 3km / level so at lv5 you warp to 0km.
Vasili Z	Posted - 2006.10.24 23:38:00 - [13] He was going to N-rael to escort my ship from empire, the BM's were just a mistake, believe me, Fire Born's not an exploiter, he's just a noobie
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.25 00:21:00 - [14] Originally by: ElCholo Originally by: Kunming Just remove BMs, add 0km warp option.. end of story really, there is no chance you gonna catch someone using BMs unless you have a dictor or bubble anyway. I dont like a 'warp to 0km' option, I'd rather they tie it to the warp drive operation skill, say 15km base for lv0, then decreasing by 3km / level so at lv5 you warp to 0km. I believe this is the best option as well. Chances are anyone that actually uses BMs for travel already have Warp Drive Op to 4 or 5 anyway. And I also agree with autopilot still forcing 15km warpins Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer
Terminus adacai Caldari Mintaka Mining Inc	Posted - 2006.10.25 02:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Kunming Just remove BMs, add 0km warp option.. end of story really, there is no chance you gonna catch someone using BMs unless you have a dictor or bubble anyway. Gotta disagree here. Obtaining BM's requires time or willingness to pay for em. Those that are not willing to do either shouldn't get them handed to them. I still believe that client side stored BM's are the answer. They can always be encrypted to prevent editing. The warp to 0 crowd is just looking for a handout.
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2006.10.25 04:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Terminus adacai Originally by: Kunming Just remove BMs, add 0km warp option.. end of story really, there is no chance you gonna catch someone using BMs unless you have a dictor or bubble anyway. Gotta disagree here. Obtaining BM's requires time or willingness to pay for em. Those that are not willing to do either shouldn't get them handed to them. I still believe that client side stored BM's are the answer. They can always be encrypted to prevent editing. The warp to 0 crowd is just looking for a handout. Exactly my thinking for the last few years, there should be a new folder in cache devoted solely to personal bookmarks and all storage related to them. if/when you try to call them up for a given system, you're uploading, rather than forcing the cluster to. For anyone affraid of someone being able to hack and then edit the files, a unique key could easily be programmed for every person, and generate a encryption scheme of say 2^512. or well over 13 billion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion possibilities (give or take ). Not even a super computer could break that code through brute force within the lifetime of the user, and even all the fastest supercomputers on earth combined would take many many years simply because of so many combinations, and then only ONE will work for each user so people trying to mass copy their cache folder for sharing outside of EVE couldn't even do that because the game won't recognise their unique encription. If a player wanted to store every BM to every gate, station, asteroid belt, planet, and item of interest in the game on their own computer, I say more power to them. CCP needs to change from a "push" system of bookmark data with BM's being taken from the database and effectively pushed out to the user(s), and change to a "pull" system that the cluster only needs to care about BM's when the user(s) are sending the coordinate data for their warp to the server. Only the BM's for any given system you are currently in would be loaded in the "right click" menu, and if you pull up people and places, then you're loading a menu of your own computer's catalog of BM's, which if you choose to take one, then that data could then be uploaded for just that determined BM selected as the waypoint for your trip. ------------------------------------------------- For the price of one can of Quafe cola a day, you can adopt an Ewok... Please... think of the Ewoks...
Awox Minmatar Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Xendie lol -V- alliance parking shuttles with bookmarks in them. wait.... wasnt this what -V-, LV and ASCN accused the Reds of doing, and called it lame and exploiting? I've seen more -V-, LV, KOS and iPOD (ex veritas and lotka) logoffski than I ever saw Reds do. - Logoffski Name & SHAME
Ralinn Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Vivus Mors blob Yeah.. thats handy.. until you play on multiple computers, having to copy the cache around all over the place for your BMs.. GREAT IDEA! It's also completely flawed from a technical standpoint with regards to exploits. You'd be encrypting and decrypting locally, hence the key will be there locally.. Then it's a matter of finding the encryption key in memory (not as hard as it sounds), not bruteforcing the data. Instajump bookmarks give an unfair advantage they never intended, warp to 0 evens that playing field (and affects the current gameplay the least). The other option is to the make the "warp to Xkm" warp you to X km in some random direction from the target, not just undershoot by X, rendering bookmarks for this purpose useless, but still useful for actual bookmarking.
Carl Zeiss Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:27:00 - [19] I like the idea of "warp to 0" but I guess some low sec pirates will disagree... In 0.0 you have bubbles, in lowsec - nothing. I've seen nice proposal with "warp to 5 km" - in that case you need to go trough 2500m to jump into the gate. If you add 5 sec locking delay after warp - you can go trough any camp with mwd/ab. But anyway, can someone confirm/deny is there any way to make ppl sad by playing with BMs? I tried to copy some bm's in the station today and I was surprised: I can't drag'n'drop more than 5 bm's, but it is possible to start copying next 5 while previous still copying. So in fact I can launch copying for any number of BMs - depends on mouse skills. PS. Thanks for fixing my sig ------------ Which slot do I use for an exotic dancer?
Spanker	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:54:00 - [20] Why did they increase the jump-to range? Wasn't it because of the whiny "pirates" who wanted it easyer catching people? And won't we get all that whine back if we have a 0km option? To solve the bookmark lag problem - if such a thing in fact exists, tbh it sounds like your making up things to blame for lag, so what if your people and places screen loads slowly live with it - just make it impossible to create bookmarks within 15km of a gate. And then do a DELETE b.everything FROM Bookmarks b WHERE b.distanceToGate < 15km. Simple as that. - Shpank
Fubear Vogon Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:03:00 - [21] One reason to have bookmarks in your cargo-hold is that you may be copying them in space. In 0.0 you may not be anywhere near a station to dock and copy your bookmarks, so you are forced to copy them to your cargo hold.
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:22:00 - [22] If you add warp to 0km then why remove bookmarks? The vast majority of bookmarks are for travelling. We'll still need sniping and tactical bookmarks - they shouldn't be removed imo. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Carl Zeiss I like the idea of "warp to 0" but I guess some low sec pirates will disagree... In 0.0 you have bubbles, in lowsec - nothing. I've seen nice proposal with "warp to 5 km" - in that case you need to go trough 2500m to jump into the gate. If you add 5 sec locking delay after warp - you can go trough any camp with mwd/ab. But anyway, can someone confirm/deny is there any way to make ppl sad by playing with BMs? I tried to copy some bm's in the station today and I was surprised: I can't drag'n'drop more than 5 bm's, but it is possible to start copying next 5 while previous still copying. So in fact I can launch copying for any number of BMs - depends on mouse skills. PS. Thanks for fixing my sig Maybe i can be the way to increase the population of low sec systems? Reducing the efficence of low sec gatecamps, with less effect on 0.0 gatecamps? As I konw little of the mecanig·c of gatecamps from the camper prospective, I would like some useful comment.
Jurskjeld Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:26:00 - [24] Boohoo if the snipers get less easy prey. Less ability for them to shoot at people means more goods will be moved into 0.0, something I've heard a lot of people here complain about not happening. Gatecamper whiners rank very low on my list of whos whining to prioritize. -- Amarr scum be pushing gas, Caldari dogs are kissing their ***. Gallente and Minmatar together stand forever as the holy band.
foolers	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:56:00 - [25] Quote: I still believe that client side stored BM's are the answer. They can always be encrypted to prevent editing. The warp to 0 crowd is just looking for a handout. No. Storing them client side with encryption would involve the client having the encryption key. 15 minutes with a debugger and you have the key to include in whatever editing tool you want.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:48:00 - [26] Originally by: foolers Quote: I still believe that client side stored BM's are the answer. They can always be encrypted to prevent editing. The warp to 0 crowd is just looking for a handout. No. Storing them client side with encryption would involve the client having the encryption key. 15 minutes with a debugger and you have the key to include in whatever editing tool you want. Nope. ABC of crypting. Use open key schema. Client can decrypt, but cannot encrypt. So basically bm cannot be created.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:59:00 - [27] The whole idea of the 15km travel to gate is so we can shoot each other. If you cant handle being shot at then dont play a PvPcentric game. Warp to 0 is a stupid lazy idea, skills to get you to warp to 0 is the same as warp to 0, also a stupid idea. Playing EvE with a bit of risk is a good idea. While I understand that the lame lazy and risk adverse are here to stay, I still would like to express my extreme distaste for your type. Thank you. The Privateering Life
Erica chez Amarr Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Kunming Just remove BMs, add 0km warp option.. end of story really, there is no chance you gonna catch someone using BMs unless you have a dictor or bubble anyway. Either make it a buyable item, (ISK Sink), A Book of BMs if you will. or make it a skill, 15KM no skill 0KM 5th Skill. Call it Warp Bubble Containment field or something. Just make it tough to get, couple L5's. The advantage of the buyable one is that you have to have the ISK and you have to pay for each region.
Erica chez Amarr Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Infinity Ziona blah blah blah Isn't camping a gate really lazy?
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:39:00 - [30] I say CCP should just remove all bookmarks which are nearer then 150km to a celestial object and be done with it... A module that makes your jumps better could be introduced but should have similar disadvantages as the new WCS. No, I am not a pirate...

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