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Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:05:00 - [1] Change it's tanking bonus to +10% armour hit points - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:29:00 - [2] Originally by: Alex Tremayne Originally by: Ithildin Change it's tanking bonus to +10% armour hit points This I like. Maybe only 7.5% though, but either way this is a role appropiate bonus which is what the ship needs. Yeah, I was thinking the same. If it got more hit points, it'd suddenly do something that the Megathron didn't which was soak damage. Right now it can, barely due to grid, repair damage. Not very blasterish, really. If it got a bit more hit points instead, it'd be like a big, slow (and ugly some say), brute that lumbers in close to deliver the blow. Seriously, armour tanking is an Amarr thing. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:51:00 - [3] I'm contemplating. What has the Hyperion going for it over the Megathron? 1. It does less damage since it has smaller drone bay. 2. It does less damage with it's turrets since it's lacking a tracking bonus. 3. It has to fit smaller guns if it wants to make use of it's repair bonus. 4. The repair bonus isn't very useful. Why does it have to be like this? 1. The Hyperion and the Megathron are both crammed into the same battlefield role - blasters. 2. Apparently all tier 3 battleships need to have a tanking bonus. Dear developers, Tuxford, and TomB, one or both of these two has to go if you want to make the Hyperion useful without obsoleting the Megathron. Tuxford also stated he didn't like the Thorax style MWD bonus since it involved a powergrid, CPU, and capacitor heavy module to be used - armour repairers are even more powergrid, CPU, AND capacitor heavy! Here are some suggestions. Minimal effort, minimal result * 7.5% Armour repair amount bonus changed to armour hit point bonus. Comment: This is a minimum effort. The Hyperion suffers from a small powergrid, and lock range enforced close range set up. With this change, it will heavily promote plate-tanking, which is much more powergrid efficient than repair tanking. Altered role * Change one of the bonuses to Sensor Dampener Efficiency * Move a low slot to mid slot * Improve CPU Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change, it'll work well regardless. My suggestion is the repair bonus, since electronic warfare is damage prevention. A different kind of drone boat * Change one of the bonuses to electronic warfare drone efficiency and MWD velocity. * Tripple drone bay Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change. This ship doesn't do damage with it's drones, it annoys the hell out of you with it's drones and kills you with it's guns. It's sort of a reversed Dominix. Do something, the current Hyperion lacks a role. You got the patches on test server. It's a test server. Let us test for you. In the end, we are the ones who'll abuse or reject the ships, not you. If you let us test things now, we won't have to call you names on the forums the coming two years until you change it (at which point the other half of the forum users call you names BECAUSE you change it). Disclaimer for the stupid: who said this change request is a request not to change the other ships in need? I didn't. Good, so don't flip out and write something stupid, 'cause the Maelstrom is also in dire need. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:35:00 - [4] Gavax, back up with stats or quotes, please. There is no indication, what so ever, that these aren't the final stats. In fact, going by EVE change history, these ARE the final stats and most likely WONT change. And no, rigs won't help the Hyperion. Rigs come with a penalty, and I have seen no penalty that the Hyperion could survive. Especially not the weapon rigs. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Alex Tremayne Originally by: Jim McGregor Why are you only listing its disadvantages and not the advantages such as speed and agility? You can do better than that... Speed and agility? It's an immense 5m/s faster than the Megathron and the same mass. It will have to have truly insane agility to make up for all the other problems the ship has. I'd not mind the same agility as a Moros, actually. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:50:00 - [6] Gallente T1 ship line is different from the other races in one thing. It's unique in that Gallente T1 ships do not have any missile ships, every other race has at least one T1 missile ship. Gallente really doesn't need (nor want) a missile ship. If you want a big Celestis, then you get a 5% turret damage bonus and 5t/3l slot layout on 8 high slots. But really, if the Hyperion was changed to something like this: High: 8 (8 turrets) Mid: 6 Low: 5 Bonus 1: +5% Turret damage Bonus 2: +5% Sensor dampener efficiency Powergrid: 14,500 CPU: 650 Velocity: 110 m/s Mass: 100,000,000 KG Cargo: 700m¦ Drone bay: 200m¦ This ship would not outdamage the Megathron, it would actually be ideal a low-grade railgun ship, where it's locking range advantage would serve best. (Please note the lower powergrid) - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 09:49:36 Originally by: Alex Tremayne Originally by: Jim McGregor Why are you only listing its disadvantages and not the advantages such as speed and agility? You can do better than that... Speed and agility? It's an immense 5m/s faster than the Megathron and the same mass. It will have to have truly insane agility to make up for all the other problems the ship has. It doesnt have the same mass as the Megathron. It has 102.500, Tempest has 100.000. Megathron has alot more than both of them. Check stats again. Both Tempest and Megathron weigh 102.5MKG. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:20:00 - [8] You can't support 2 LAR and Ions, you know. And it's drones aren't near the Megathron's Bah, I'm moving to test server to test this piece of ****. Main concern remains: it's THE SAME ROLE as the Megathron. One of them must be worse. This is bad. Change it's role. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:38:00 - [9] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ithildin Check stats again. Both Tempest and Megathron weigh 102.5MKG. Yeah, I did... you are right. Very strange, since ive always felt megathron was slow and clumsy...its not that much worse off than a Tempest then. With all that firepower... Its down to Agility. Mass is not important. Its the Agility which counts. Tempest is much more agile. Nope. Both Megathron and Tempest has agility factor 0.155. They are both as agile. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:11:00 - [10] Edited by: Ithildin on 25/10/2006 11:13:22 Got as far as warping to FFA#1. There was a Rokh there, so game crashed. (There's a bug currently - if you shoot at a Rokh, game crashes) In either case, this is what I managed to fit: High * 8x Ion Blaster II [Antimatter] Mid * 100mn MWD II, Warp Disruptor I, Fleeting Web, Balmer Tracking Disruptor, Heavy Electrochemical [Cap charge 800] Low * LAR II, Internal Forcefield, 2x EANMII, 2x Magnetic Field II. Drone * 10x Hammerhead II Reactions: you can fit a bit more than I intuitively thought, although I must say it is very difficult in either case. To fully make use of the repair bonus, you must fit the LAR, which is the biggest crook in the set up. Powergrid: Powergrid is very tight. This ship simply doesn't have the low slots for fitting modules. Dual repair set up will completely defeat it's purpose as a blaster ship considering that too much damage must be sacrificed. CPU: This is, if possible, even tighter. As you can see above, it's pretty much a standard setup with a few top-named modules. I can tell you, a full T2 or faction set up is not possible unless it's faction items that use LESS CPU than T2 items. Edit: Approx: 18906 powergrid used of 19062.5 Exactly: 737 CPU used of 737.5 sigh Now I'm logged in with my alt. She can't use T2 guns, which is sort of ironic for a 35M PvP specialized char. Will have to test other stuff. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio So the hyp's bonus is now a tank bonus instead of mwd? yeah and what a bonus... Large Rep II works like a good faction repper we all know that tanking makes the difference between do or die in close range combat... I think they hyperion will completely outclass the mega in this respect Err... I know it doesn't make squat difference. 1600mm Rolled Tungsten > Chelm Armour Repairer - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Ithildin Err... I know it doesn't make squat difference. 1600mm Rolled Tungsten > Chelm Armour Repairer By what logic? If a faction repper gets you 1500 per cycle, you only need 4 cycles to be well above the benefit a plate will give you. With the fact you have a base 12000 armor anyway with HU V, I don't see your point. A rolled tungsten gives you 6300 more armour at the expense of around 28 cpu and 500 powergrid. A Chelm rep on a Hyperion gives 1732.5 per cycle at the expense of 46 cpu and 2800 powergrid. It takes the rep 3.63 cycles to make up for a tungsten plate. Translated in seconds this means 37.8 seconds. Translated in capacitor this is 1512 capacitor units. What fight is not over in that time? Does this justify sucking up 12.5% of the capacitor? Is this a good balance on a PvP ship considering the fact that we are comparing a T1 meta item to the best possible officer item? Does this slow performance justify sucking up so much of an already tight fitting? - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:48:00 - [13] I lose the resistance bonus from the damage control, of course. I can't test since I got dropped, you know. And my alt's got this funny bug - she can't dock in station properly. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Edenia Don't forget that every BS will get a 50% bonus HP with Kali (watch the megathron stats on test server). Fights will be longer so maybe the rep bonus will has an interest (i doubt it but well...). At the same time plates are also better... Oh, and capacitor becomes more premium on blaster ships, which makes repairers less attractive. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:54:00 - [15] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Ithildin Err... I know it doesn't make squat difference. 1600mm Rolled Tungsten > Chelm Armour Repairer By what logic? If a faction repper gets you 1500 per cycle, you only need 4 cycles to be well above the benefit a plate will give you. With the fact you have a base 12000 armor anyway with HU V, I don't see your point. A rolled tungsten gives you 6300 more armour at the expense of around 28 cpu and 500 powergrid. A Chelm rep on a Hyperion gives 1732.5 per cycle at the expense of 46 cpu and 2800 powergrid. It takes the rep 3.63 cycles to make up for a tungsten plate. Translated in seconds this means 37.8 seconds. Translated in capacitor this is 1512 capacitor units. What fight is not over in that time? Pretty much ANY fight with the new HP bonuses. I mean, even now, a 1v1 between two good tanked battleships will last a minute or two. Maybe longer. ...unless one of the ships are a blaster/AC/pulse set up. WHOPSIDASY! The Hyperion is a blaster set up. Do you want me to do the math on how long it'll take a Megathron to punch through a Hyperion? Let's see, you've got about 30k armour+shield+hit points. That takes about a minute to punch through with a blaster ship. Add to that another 20 seconds since you are repairing. I'll give you a minute and a half. So, in that time your T2 repairer manage to just about cancel out a rolled tungsten plate - at the expense of a lot more fitting and capacitor. Remember that in my example above, I was using the best armour repairer available in game in comparison with a near dog-standard plate. Besides. 1v1? /me sighs. Stop theorizing as if people were chivalrous and slightly stupid. - What am I listening to?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Mila Prestoc A Tempests way to beat a Mega is to keep out of blaster range using its 0 agility difference and 15m/s (10m/s on Hyperion)... yeah cos thats easy to do. So wanting a ship quicker, more agile and same sort of damage output as a Mega? Yeah right, keep wishing. Tier 3 isn't meant to make other ships redundant, and balancing is more than just with ships of its own race. Precisely. Gallente's got their/our blaster battleship. Give them/us something different that is still true to their/our racial concept. - What am I listening to?

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