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Official Pre-release Whine: Why no new T1 ships?

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Lockheed Lightning	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:18:00 - [1] CCP, Why are there no new tier 1 ships? This game seems to be constantly geared towards those that have billions of ISK to spend of incredibly expensive ships while the rest are left stuck with severely underperforming tier1 vessels. So please, release more T1 ships or at the very least, dramatically reduce the production cost of the Tier1's. As a Caldari i'm drooling when I see the new battleship and the new battlecruisers coming in... but I know for a fact that I will not be flying one anytime soon because being Tier 3 will likely mean they will each cost over 400 mill each and as usual, uninsurable.
DaemonBarber	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:19:00 - [2] The new ships are Tech 1 - Tier 3. Just like the previous BS's were Tech 1, Tiers 1 & 2. All of the new ships will be fully insurable (minus the original inflation).
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:21:00 - [3] as said above you are going to look at about 30-35 mill for tier 2 bc and 120 mill for tier 3 BS (might be more expensive at the very start of kali until production gets running) Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:22:00 - [4] yep. I'd guess the tier 2 BC will go for around 30 to 40 mil, and the tier 3 BS to be about 150 to 175. Both fully insurable. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:22:00 - [5] They don't need to release more tier 1 ships as we have some already. What would they release? New versions of the same ships? Also, devs don't set the prices of the ships, the player driven market of supply/demand does. And they are not likely to cost 400 mil forever as they are tech 1 ships, need no expencive components and given a short amount of time the market will sort itself out. 150 mil average. These ships are not so much aimed at being 'better' as being aimed at being 'different' But asking them to release more tier 1 ships is silly. There is only one ship type per tier. Always has been always will be. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Lockheed Lightning CCP, Why are there no new tier 1 ships? This game seems to be constantly geared towards those that have billions of ISK to spend of incredibly expensive ships while the rest are left stuck with severely underperforming tier1 vessels. So please, release more T1 ships or at the very least, dramatically reduce the production cost of the Tier1's. As a Caldari i'm drooling when I see the new battleship and the new battlecruisers coming in... but I know for a fact that I will not be flying one anytime soon because being Tier 3 will likely mean they will each cost over 400 mill each and as usual, uninsurable. Tier 1 is NOT the same as T1 (tech 1). A merlin is a tier 3 frigate (requires frigate level 3 to fly) but its a T1 ship, meaning its tech level 1. So, the new ships that are being added are the tier 2 battlecruisers (arguably better in some way than the tier 1's, but cheaper than the tech 2's), and the tier 3 battleships. The new battleships are NOT tech2, and as such, im sure the blueprints will be seeded on the market, and the price for them wont be significantly bloated by lack of supply like it is with tech2 ships. I havent seen any hard data on mineral requirements, but id guess that the difference in price between a tier2 and tier 3 battleship will be about the same as the difference between tier1 and tier2, at least once a bunch of people are making them. In other words, if dominix costs about 60 mil, and megathron about 100 mil, Hyperion will probably cost about 140 mil. So dont panic. This signature space for rent
Lireil Crow Supero Omnia	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:26:00 - [7] as a producer I check the build cost of the new ships. Tear 2 Battlecruisers will cost around 60 to 70mil more like around 80 to 100mil at first then settle down to around 60 to 70mil. The tear 3 Battleship will cost around 200 to 300mil, at first around 350 but then will settle down to around 250mil. Build cost for t2 BC = 50mil avg Build cost for t3 BS = 190mil avg There ya go go guys save your isk
Guurzak Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Lockheed Lightning CCP, Why are there no new tier 1 ships? You clearly don't appreciate the difference between "tier 2" and "tech 2". Tier refers to the skill required to use a ship within a single tech level. For example, the Scorpion is a Tech 1 Tier 1 battleship, while the Raven is a Tech 1 Tier 2 battleship. The Rokh with be a Tech 1 Tier 3 battleship. There are no Tech 2 battleships for you to worry about, much less Tech 3.
Hex'Caliber Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:30:00 - [9] Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 25/10/2006 18:33:15 There is a difference in tier one, tier two and tech one tech two. The new ships are all t1 ships, the tier system just determines the level of skill i.e. battleship one battleship 3 etc that is required to fly that ship. T2 or tech 2 obviously require a much greater skill point investment, but that is not the case for the new ships, if you have skilled bc or bs you should be able to fly the new ships right off the bat. As for the price in live the price will drop and stabilise on live once construction catches up with demand. Ordinarily on sisi, everything can be purchased for 100 isk each so access to one for testing should be no problem. As for a battleship costing around 200 mil, you should have no problem making that kind of isk, regardless of how you make cash in game, if you are having problems, I would look at the way you make isk in eve and see if you can do anything to improve it. A couple of days ratting in low sec or running level 4 combat missions, should be more than enough to make the cash required. If you are war decked and thatÆs draining cash reserves perhaps you need to talk to your corp leadership and suggest a bpo library for corp use. Regards HexCaliber
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Lireil Crow as a producer I check the build cost of the new ships. Tear 2 Battlecruisers will cost around 60 to 70mil more like around 80 to 100mil at first then settle down to around 60 to 70mil. The tear 3 Battleship will cost around 200 to 300mil, at first around 350 but then will settle down to around 250mil. Build cost for t2 BC = 50mil avg Build cost for t3 BS = 190mil avg There ya go go guys save your isk wtf are you smoking? this would be double the production cost of the preceding tiers Oo Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.

Jurai Ginaz	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:36:00 - [11] Edited by: Jurai Ginaz on 25/10/2006 18:36:31 So pretty much the new caldari BC will cost about the same as..say, the Scorpion battleship. Good to know. And the insurance thing..even BETTER to know. Whew.
Lireil Crow Supero Omnia	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Lireil Crow as a producer I check the build cost of the new ships. Tear 2 Battlecruisers will cost around 60 to 70mil more like around 80 to 100mil at first then settle down to around 60 to 70mil. The tear 3 Battleship will cost around 200 to 300mil, at first around 350 but then will settle down to around 250mil. Build cost for t2 BC = 50mil avg Build cost for t3 BS = 190mil avg There ya go go guys save your isk wtf are you smoking? this would be double the production cost of the preceding tiers Oo have you look at the blueprints? I have.. So until you look at them and do he math your self then please STFU thanks
Ronan Teisdari The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Lireil Crow Build cost for t2 BC = 50mil avg Build cost for t3 BS = 190mil avg There ya go go guys save your isk wtf are you smoking? this would be double the production cost of the preceding tiers Oo There are almost double the materials of the tier 2 BS's. So the build cost is about right at current prices.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:55:00 - [14] Edited by: Murukan on 25/10/2006 18:56:52 Originally by: Lockheed Lightning CCP, Why are there no new tier 1 ships? This game seems to be constantly geared towards those that have billions of ISK to spend of incredibly expensive ships while the rest are left stuck with severely underperforming tier1 vessels. So please, release more T1 ships or at the very least, dramatically reduce the production cost of the Tier1's. As a Caldari i'm drooling when I see the new battleship and the new battlecruisers coming in... but I know for a fact that I will not be flying one anytime soon because being Tier 3 will likely mean they will each cost over 400 mill each and as usual, uninsurable. understand the game before you whine. Tier3 =/= tech3. And i bet the prices will settle much lower than 70mil on the tier 2 bc's. The t1 bcs cost about 18mil to make and sell for 22-25. A 10-20mil markup on tier 1 ships would probably not stay around for too long as people will start undercutting each other. In rust we trust!!!
Kagero Machiko	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:04:00 - [15] far as i can remmeber a Dev said that the ships and BPO's would be available from NPCs from day 1 so no overpricing. the 8 new ships (4 BS and 4 BC) are all tech 1 and require the minimal skills to use so Race Battleship 3 and Battlecruiser 2 (with the skilsl required fo rthose) the ships are amazing to play with and there is sum nice very powerful cheap ships to go out playign with (For all those who havnt got onto SISI yet) there will also be plenty of whines abotu the Drake beign overpowered but compared to the hurricane and myrmiddon i believe that its balanced enuff u just need to get the right fitting on ur prefered ship. Only ones who seem to have been shafted was the Amarr pilots but their Tier 2 Battlecruiser is really great DPS boat and looks pretty nifty
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Lireil Crow have you look at the blueprints? I have.. So until you look at them and do he math your self then please STFU thanks BTW insurance for the new T3 BS's are about 55mil (it was low 50's didnt take a really good look). Sorry I did not check for the t2 BC's well i looked now at the bpos and calculated the prices for Maelstrom and Hurricane (and i used upper open market mineral prices) 38-42 mill prod cost for Hurricane 142-150 mill prod cost for maelstrom perhaps at the very beginning with 0 Me you get 50-60 mill prod cost for bc's and 165-180 for BS but average prices for bc at 50 mill and 190 mill for BS no way, this would position tier t2 bc nearly in the same price class as tier 1 BS Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Lireil Crow Supero Omnia	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:13:00 - [17] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Lireil Crow have you look at the blueprints? I have.. So until you look at them and do he math your self then please STFU thanks BTW insurance for the new T3 BS's are about 55mil (it was low 50's didnt take a really good look). Sorry I did not check for the t2 BC's well i looked now at the bpos and calculated the prices for Maelstrom and Hurricane (and i used upper open market mineral prices) 38-42 mill prod cost for Hurricane 142-150 mill prod cost for maelstrom perhaps at the very beginning with 0 Me you get 50-60 mill prod cost for bc's and 165-180 for BS but average prices for bc at 50 mill and 190 mill for BS no way, this would position tier t2 bc nearly in the same price class as tier 1 BS You looked at TQ's prices right, if so you really need to check your min prices with todays prices and not a year ago or something.
Evelgrivion Cohort. Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:17:00 - [18] Its right around 36 million to build the new Tier 2 Battlecruisers, and heres the prices I used for the now available Bill of Materials cost. Tritanium: 2 ISK Pyerite: 4 ISK Mexallon: 16 ISK Isogen: 100 ISK Nocxium: 450 ISK Zydrine: 4000 ISK Megacyte: 4500 ISK So trust me, the prices arent as bad as the whiners are triyng to make them out to be. »\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/ Its Cohort. with a C.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:20:00 - [19] Originally by: Lireil Crow You looked at TQ's prices right, if so you really need to check your min prices with todays prices and not a year ago or something. yes, upper forge prices of today actually, i just assumed Production Effiecency at lvl 5 and a few runs of ME Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 25/10/2006 19:17:27 Its right around 36 million to build the new Tier 2 Battlecruisers, and heres the prices I used for the now available Bill of Materials cost. Tritanium: 2 ISK Pyerite: 4 ISK Mexallon: 16 ISK Isogen: 100 ISK Nocxium: 450 ISK Zydrine: 4000 ISK Megacyte: 4500 ISK So trust me, the prices arent going to be as bad as the whiners are triyng to make them out to be. Supply and demand will make them affordable in short order; I expect 42 million ISK for a drake within a week after launch. i used slightly higher prices but yeah i reason the same Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.

Greenbolt	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:56:00 - [21] I suspect the first month they are out will be rough as people will be doing ME research etc...and supply will be a bit limited...but after that I predict around no more than 20 percent profit on build costs if that as competition kicks in. Flip side..I see the tier 1 battlecruisers becoming harder to find...because they will not be as heavily produced.
Vichan Ly'onsen	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:09:00 - [22] Will these ships be seeded to NPC's along with BPO's or will we be forced to wait for producers to ME their BPO's up and then have to fly into Jita to pick one of these up :) Any ideas
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Vichan Ly'onsen Will these ships be seeded to NPC's along with BPO's or will we be forced to wait for producers to ME their BPO's up and then have to fly into Jita to pick one of these up :) Any ideas you are gonna have to wait for someone to produce it, or buy a bpo yourself and start producing Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Lireil Crow Supero Omnia	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Vichan Ly'onsen Will these ships be seeded to NPC's along with BPO's or will we be forced to wait for producers to ME their BPO's up and then have to fly into Jita to pick one of these up :) Any ideas let me guss you got a new account, and stated playing 2mins ago?
Zarch AlDain Friends of Everyone	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:10:00 - [25] Well I know I will be making and selling a few before the BPO goes into research - so I guess you won't need to go to Jita for those ones :) I would be surprised if most people don't do the same.. Zarch AlDain

Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.10.26 08:36:00 - [26] This thread is now redundant as question was answered * click * locked ____ forum rules \| Email us



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