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Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
1
   |
Posted - 2015.04.06 08:40:52 -
[1] - Quote
In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Discussion please |
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi
Space Heroes In Training
13
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 08:41:52 -
[2] - Quote
1st! o7 |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35575
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 08:48:38 -
[3] - Quote
How could you think you would be able to safe lock if someone is targeting you?
That's hardly a safe condition.
90% right doesn't cut it. You need to be 100% ok to safe log off:
- not in a fleet
- no modules active
- not in warp
- no timers
So in your situation, being targeted creates a timer. You can't safe log off in that condition.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 09:35:26 -
[4] - Quote
Being targeted doesnt create timers |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35577
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 10:10:12 -
[5] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Being targeted doesnt create timers
Yeah you are right. Not right expression on that bit.
Same effect. You aren't in a safe state when you are targetted. Should add that to the list:
- not targetted.
Thanks for the correction.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
821
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 10:11:24 -
[6] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Discussion please
How is it fair that you get to avoid a PvP engagement by logging out?
Clearing you weren't doing something right if someone is about to shoot you. |
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
397
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 10:27:16 -
[7] - Quote
What's the point of this thread besides it being a rant ...
... about how you are FORCED ...
... WITH A GUN ...
... to stay logged in?
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
|
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5960
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 10:34:46 -
[8] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Being targeted doesnt create timers
Neither does activating modules, moving your ship, jettisoning cans, deploying drones or a number of other things that prevent you from using safe logoff. Obviously you are intended to have severe restrictions beyond just combat timers to be able to logoff safely.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
|
Zura Namee
The Milkmen
26
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 13:15:48 -
[9] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Discussion please
If someone has a lock on you, you are not even remotely safe. It doesn't matter if they're your best friend in the history of the universe and sitting in a shuttle, you are not safe. If someone has a lock on you, go somewhere else before safe logging. |
Angelica Everstar
104
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 13:22:08 -
[10] - Quote
Targeting is not an issue.
The 30 secs is a HUGE issue - should have been 60 secs.
Try scanning anyone down in a safespot in 30 secs, and get them targeted 
§ Any typos, bad spelling or grammar found, are yours to keep.
¢ Bonds: Current AE07 1 Trillion (Filled) // Total : 2+ Trillon ISK
¦Æ Angel Consulting (Tobeannounced) Gäó
@EveEntrepreneur
|
Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 14:47:23 -
[11] - Quote
You cannot be safely logging off while:
You have active modules
You are ejecting from a ship
You have aggression from players or NPCs
Your ship is exploding or self-destructing
You are issuing movement commands
You are launching or jettisoning objects
You are joining a fleet
You are deploying or reconnecting with drones
You have a target lock
You are warping
You are decloaking
List doesnt say anything about being targeted, it just says u cant have a lock while safe logging |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
922
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:06:32 -
[12] - Quote
Logoffsky is not cool bro. You can always dock and logoff you know? It should never be a viable tactic to misuse the logoff mechanic as a way to avoid an engagement in space.
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:06:51 -
[13] - Quote
The more accurate dev blog language simply didn't make it into the wiki. Paging Mr. Ezwal?
Quote:You have a target lock or are targeted
everything is better with ߦêߦÆߦù-ó on it
New Player Opportunities: a gallery
|
Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:14:34 -
[14] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Logoffsky is not cool bro. You can always dock and logoff you know? It should never be a viable tactic to misuse the logoff mechanic as a way to avoid an engagement in space.
Its not about avoiding engagement, its that some one is preventing u from safe logging and doesnt get anything from it?
|
Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
44912
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:18:28 -
[15] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Logoffsky is not cool bro. You can always dock and logoff you know? It should never be a viable tactic to misuse the logoff mechanic as a way to avoid an engagement in space. Its not about avoiding engagement, its that some one is preventing u from safe logging and doesnt get anything from it?
When some one is around to be able to target you, you are by definition not safe. |
Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:20:45 -
[16] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:Zerbyl wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Logoffsky is not cool bro. You can always dock and logoff you know? It should never be a viable tactic to misuse the logoff mechanic as a way to avoid an engagement in space. Its not about avoiding engagement, its that some one is preventing u from safe logging and doesnt get anything from it? When some one is around to be able to target you, you are by definition not safe.
If some is within target range of me that means im not safe? c'mon |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
926
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:37:19 -
[17] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:Zerbyl wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Logoffsky is not cool bro. You can always dock and logoff you know? It should never be a viable tactic to misuse the logoff mechanic as a way to avoid an engagement in space. Its not about avoiding engagement, its that some one is preventing u from safe logging and doesnt get anything from it? When some one is around to be able to target you, you are by definition not safe. If some is within target range of me that means im not safe? c'mon
Yes, he could target you and shoot you. Just dock and then log... problem solved
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:42:50 -
[18] - Quote
Ur missing the point here, why is there even safe logging if u just want everyone to dock and logg there? Point is, that someone is preveting u from safelogging without getting any timer or anything from it. Shooting, poiting and everthing else gives timers.
And in fact i know that code uses this in theyr advantege. |
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi
Space Heroes In Training
14
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:43:48 -
[19] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:Zerbyl wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Logoffsky is not cool bro. You can always dock and logoff you know? It should never be a viable tactic to misuse the logoff mechanic as a way to avoid an engagement in space. Its not about avoiding engagement, its that some one is preventing u from safe logging and doesnt get anything from it? When some one is around to be able to target you, you are by definition not safe. If some is within target range of me that means im not safe? c'mon
what other reason there is for somebody to target and locked you other than to shoot you? c'mon  |
Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
44919
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:44:56 -
[20] - Quote
If you want to safely log out in space, just warp to somewhere, where there is nobody around. |
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
487
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:46:25 -
[21] - Quote
Is this a rant about how safelogging does not
allow you to prevent being shot at?
Because that's what it sounds like.
Why would someone lock your ship to prevent you tucking in your tail,
if it wasn't to make sure the coward can't run away from being killed?
Just wondering. In any case ... you were not safe,
thus no safe logging off. It's not quantum mechanics, really.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10640
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 15:47:04 -
[22] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Discussion please
Someone got his freight bumped 
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
926
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 16:01:55 -
[23] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Ur missing the point here, why is there even safe logging if u just want everyone to dock and logg there? Point is, that someone is preveting u from safelogging without getting any timer or anything from it. Shooting, poiting and everthing else gives timers.
And in fact i know that code uses this in theyr advantege.
I don't think i'm missing the point at all. I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that you want to save your freighter or something similar with logoffsky, because you failed to prepare yourself when planing your route and required support fleet.
You try to misuse a mechanic that is there to logoff from the game and not to save your ship. It's implemented the way it is now to prevent exactly what you try to do with it.
P.S.
A mining permit also nerver hurts.
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Marech Bhayanaka
ISKING
5
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 16:04:55 -
[24] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Safe logoff is not supposed to be a way to escape. It is not intended to *make* you safe. It is intended to let you log off from a safe situation without making you more vulnerable than you were.
Imagine what it would do to the game if everyone who was losing a fight could escape just by logging off!
Marech.
|
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
491
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 16:08:53 -
[25] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
P.S.
A logoff permit also nerver hurts.
Fixed for context. ^_^
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
|
Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 16:27:16 -
[26] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Zerbyl wrote:In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Discussion please Someone got his freight bumped
Yes i got my freighter bumbed... six f'**ckg hours, knowing that all they want is that i logg off, so ill lose skill based bonuses...  |
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
495
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 16:35:33 -
[27] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Zerbyl wrote:In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Discussion please Someone got his freight bumped Yes i got my freighter bumbed... six f'**ckg hours, knowing that all they want is that i logg off, so ill lose skill based bonuses...
For six hours?
I would at least try to petition, after I exhausted all other options
and found no way of getting out of this. Wouldn't even wait an hour.
Half hour max, but that's too long already for trying all available solo options.
No hate here. Just stating that bumping is fine,
but having no way of getting out of it isn't.
(you may read up on the reason for the 10mill isk mining permit fee,
which was a necessity because GMs said a bumped person needs a way
to get out of it, else he could be bumped infinitely. And THAT would then
fall into the harassment category. Interesting topic, tbh.)
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
926
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 16:46:26 -
[28] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Zerbyl wrote:In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Discussion please Someone got his freight bumped Yes i got my freighter bumbed... six f'**ckg hours, knowing that all they want is that i logg off, so ill lose skill based bonuses...
So instead of using this 6h to think about how to save your freighter, which is totaly possible if you actually use some effort to protect your stuff, you come to the forums and say "Halp! CCP give me a instant escape button!".
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
496
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 16:55:31 -
[29] - Quote
But... how?
I mean I can think of ways to save it ...
... but that doesn't nessecarily lead to success.
That's what I mean.
And we can't assume that he has an alt that could web him to warp ...
Not picking sides, just curious, because I guess that with an experienced bumper
one might not qctually be able to get away. That being said, exhausting ALL options,
including looking for one on google, should the the first things on the list.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
|
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
178
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 17:05:12 -
[30] - Quote
I safe log every day. Pretty much if you haven't shot anyone and do it from a safe spot you're good. If anything safe logging should be harder, not easier.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
926
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 17:07:16 -
[31] - Quote
No one would expect the freighter to be save without support in any other kind of space in EVE. But this is true for highsec too. So if you plan to move your unarmed ship completely solo, not even with an alt as support, you made wrong assumptions about the risk involved. You can ignore the risk if it is too low anyway and say it just bad luck if they get me, but that does not usually involves whining in the forums and demanding game changes.
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
4
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 17:11:38 -
[32] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:No one would expect the freighter to be save without support in any other kind of space in EVE. But this is true for highsec too. So if you plan to move your unarmed ship completely solo, not even with an alt as support, you made wrong assumptions about the risk involved. You can ignore the risk if it is too low anyway and say it just bad luck if they get me, but that does not usually involves whining in the forums and demanding game changes.
This isnt about my freighter or anything that i have/havent done. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
929
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 17:16:13 -
[33] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:No one would expect the freighter to be save without support in any other kind of space in EVE. But this is true for highsec too. So if you plan to move your unarmed ship completely solo, not even with an alt as support, you made wrong assumptions about the risk involved. You can ignore the risk if it is too low anyway and say it just bad luck if they get me, but that does not usually involves whining in the forums and demanding game changes. This isnt about my freighter or anything that i have/havent done.
This whole thread exists because you want to logoffsky your freighter, so i think it is.
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 17:22:33 -
[34] - Quote
Staying logged into your freighter for 6 hours while it's bumped is like continuing to play chess when all you have left is your King. Technically it's possible to do, but it's you who is responsible for prolonging the inevitable, not the other player.
everything is better with ߦêߦÆߦù-ó on it
New Player Opportunities: a gallery
|
Zerbyl
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
4
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 17:40:56 -
[35] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Zerbyl wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:No one would expect the freighter to be save without support in any other kind of space in EVE. But this is true for highsec too. So if you plan to move your unarmed ship completely solo, not even with an alt as support, you made wrong assumptions about the risk involved. You can ignore the risk if it is too low anyway and say it just bad luck if they get me, but that does not usually involves whining in the forums and demanding game changes. This isnt about my freighter or anything that i have/havent done. This whole thread exists because you want to logoffsky your freighter, so i think it is.
Lol i dont want to logoffsky my freighter, whats the point in that? Thing that im saying is that if someone is preveting me to log off safely, when iw done everything right (dont have any mods active, not in fleet etc.), and doesnt get any timers or anything from it? that wierd in my book. Stop talking about that freighter, it was stuck in one system for 6 hour, nothing happened to it, and its happily againg hauling important stuff to important ppl between market hubs
And timer for safe logging should be 60s, too |
Marech Bhayanaka
ISKING
6
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 17:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote: when iw done everything right
It appears you think that bad things shouldn't happen to people who "Do everything right". It doesn't work that way in RL and it doesn't work that way in Eve. "Doing everything right" only improves your odds.
Marech. |
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 19:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
7.5/10 - Would read again. |
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4283
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 19:35:07 -
[38] - Quote
Dots wrote: Paging Mr. Ezwal? You rang? Ah yes, I see.
I have corrected the Wiki article to be in line with the Dev Blog and the actual game mechanics.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
514
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 19:38:56 -
[39] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Zerbyl wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:No one would expect the freighter to be save without support in any other kind of space in EVE. But this is true for highsec too. So if you plan to move your unarmed ship completely solo, not even with an alt as support, you made wrong assumptions about the risk involved. You can ignore the risk if it is too low anyway and say it just bad luck if they get me, but that does not usually involves whining in the forums and demanding game changes. This isnt about my freighter or anything that i have/havent done. This whole thread exists because you want to logoffsky your freighter, so i think it is. Lol i dont want to logoffsky my freighter, whats the point in that? Thing that im saying is that if someone is preveting me to log off safely, when iw done everything right (dont have any mods active, not in fleet etc.), and doesnt get any timers or anything from it? that wierd in my book. Stop talking about that freighter, it was stuck in one system for 6 hour, nothing happened to it, and its happily againg hauling important stuff to important ppl between market hubs And timer for safe logging should be 60s, too
You obviously didn't do everything right if someone
prevents you from logging off.
Also aren't you doing everything right when you simply
remove the other guy from the equation as if that made any sense.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
4780
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 23:02:19 -
[40] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Ur missing the point here, why is there even safe logging if u just want everyone to dock and logg there? Point is, that someone is preveting u from safelogging without getting any timer or anything from it. Shooting, poiting and everthing else gives timers.
And in fact i know that code uses this in theyr advantege.
The point of safe log-off is to know with 100% certainty that the shipped you logged-off in has been removed from space.
An inordinate amount of petitions were generated by super pilots that had logged-off, and had their ships destroyed HOURS later.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/happy-safe-fun-time/ |
Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium
327
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 06:06:27 -
[41] - Quote
Is this a troll post or does the op really not understand that if someone is close enough to target you...you are not safe? Idk..it just seems rather cut and dry to me. +1 for the troll 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
757
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 06:50:58 -
[42] - Quote
The 30 seconds is perfectly fine, you just have to get better at combat probing..., train to max and get a full virtue set, for gods sake you want it easy all the time...
Ella's Snack bar
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35588
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 07:11:48 -
[43] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:You cannot be safely logging off while:
You have a target lock
List doesnt say anything about being targeted, it just says u cant have a lock while safe logging
Target lock can apply both ways.
You locking someone else. Someone else locking you
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 07:13:52 -
[44] - Quote
I think freighters that are getting bumped can't safely log-off if they're targeted.
Which admittedly is bad. 
( -í° -£-û -í°)
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5291
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 07:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:What's the point of this thread besides it being a rant ...
... about how you are FORCED ...
... WITH A GUN ...
... to stay logged in? Actually, you aren't being forced by a gun, you're being forced by being targeted, which is very much different and requires no gun. Personally I think the onus should be on the aggressor to make an actual aggressive move to keep someone logged in. Of course that would be adding a small amount of challenge, and we know most aggressors don't like that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium
328
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 07:54:48 -
[46] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:What's the point of this thread besides it being a rant ...
... about how you are FORCED ...
... WITH A GUN ...
... to stay logged in? Actually, you aren't being forced by a gun, you're being forced by being targeted, which is very much different and requires no gun. Personally I think the onus should be on the aggressor to make an actual aggressive move to keep someone logged in. Of course that would be adding a small amount of challenge, and we know most aggressors don't like that.
That sounds like a bit of a trap. If it's in HS, it will provoke a concord response, assuming it's not a wt....and I can only hope someone's not trying to log with a flashy on grid. The best policy...dock.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
102
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 07:56:04 -
[47] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:What's the point of this thread besides it being a rant ...
... about how you are FORCED ...
... WITH A GUN ...
... to stay logged in? Actually, you aren't being forced by a gun, you're being forced by being targeted, which is very much different and requires no gun. Personally I think the onus should be on the aggressor to make an actual aggressive move to keep someone logged in. Of course that would be adding a small amount of challenge, and we know most aggressors don't like that.
unless your logi, targeting/locking somebody is an aggressive move....
Just Add Water
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
938
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 08:01:19 -
[48] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:What's the point of this thread besides it being a rant ...
... about how you are FORCED ...
... WITH A GUN ...
... to stay logged in? Actually, you aren't being forced by a gun, you're being forced by being targeted, which is very much different and requires no gun. Personally I think the onus should be on the aggressor to make an actual aggressive move to keep someone logged in. Of course that would be adding a small amount of challenge, and we know most aggressors don't like that.
But that's how it actually works. He can logoff at any time, the ship will disappear after some time if no one is shooting him. The only thing he can't do is to use the safe logoff function, because he was not in safety.
the Code ALWAYS wins
|
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics
CODE.
127
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 08:11:35 -
[49] - Quote
Wait, what I have utterly failed to comprehend in this thread is... why did the freighter pilot stay logged in at all while being bumped? What kept him from pulling the plug and happily disappearing in one minute and a half? If he survived such a prolonged bump, the agressor was not very keen on ganking him anyway. |
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
591
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 09:22:52 -
[50] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:Wait, what I have utterly failed to comprehend in this thread is... why did the freighter pilot stay logged in at all while being bumped? What kept him from pulling the plug and happily disappearing in one minute and a half? If he survived such a lengthy bump, the agressor was not very keen on ganking him anyway.
Oh wait you're right he could have logged of without "safety" ...
... otoh all it needs then is a noobship and a single shot...
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5292
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 09:52:34 -
[51] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:That sounds like a bit of a trap. If it's in HS, it will provoke a concord response, assuming it's not a wt....and I can only hope someone's not trying to log with a flashy on grid. The best policy...dock. Aggressive action is supposed to provoke a concord response. If you want to gank someone and they are trying to log off, shoot them. Seems a bit ludicrous that targeting them can prevent them safe logging off yet that's not considered an aggressive action in itself.
Nat Silverguard wrote:unless your logi, targeting/locking somebody is an aggressive move.... Not according to the game mechanics. You don't receive any type of aggression timer.
Ima Wreckyou wrote:But that's how it actually works. He can logoff at any time, the ship will disappear after some time if no one is shooting him. The only thing he can't do is to use the safe logoff function, because he was not in safety. That may be the case from the way the mechanics are designed currently, but that doesn't make it right. Why should someone be able to prevent someone from being safe, yet not be considered a hostile action?
IMHO, the way it works with preventing a "normal" logoff is how it should work for the safe logoff too. If you want to stop someone safe logging off you should create a timer. If that means just using a rookie ship, fair enough, but the effort should be there.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5966
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 09:58:38 -
[52] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:
Lol i dont want to logoffsky my freighter, whats the point in that? Thing that im saying is that if someone is preveting me to log off safely, when iw done everything right (dont have any mods active, not in fleet etc.), and doesnt get any timers or anything from it? that wierd in my book. Stop talking about that freighter, it was stuck in one system for 6 hour, nothing happened to it, and its happily againg hauling important stuff to important ppl between market hubs
And timer for safe logging should be 60s, too
That's the funny thing about a pvp game like Eve - it's not just you playing or about what only you do.
You haven't "done everything right" yet until you've gotten safely away from ships that are targeting you as well.
That's the mechanic. Learn it and move on. You're not going to win this one.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
985
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 10:23:28 -
[53] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:But that's how it actually works. He can logoff at any time, the ship will disappear after some time if no one is shooting him. The only thing he can't do is to use the safe logoff function, because he was not in safety. That may be the case from the way the mechanics are designed currently, but that doesn't make it right. Why should someone be able to prevent someone from being safe, yet not be considered a hostile action? IMHO, the way it works with preventing a "normal" logoff is how it should work for the safe logoff too. If you want to stop someone safe logging off you should create a timer. If that means just using a rookie ship, fair enough, but the effort should be there.
To be fair, this sounds the "right" way it should play out. If anything, it sounds like someone is trying to exploit the safe logoff function to pull a logoffski when in a most decidedly not-safe situation.
Safe logoff exists, not to circumvent other players knowledge that you are trying to log-off (which sounds like how it is being attempted to be used here - the pilot knows they will get aggressed if they do a standard log-off, so they were hoping to safe-log in order to trick their hunter who wouldn't see they were doing it til the second they vanished), but to ensure when you are in a situation where you believe yourself to be completely safe from harm, you can't be caught out by a surprise occuring during the log-off period before your ship vanishes (because you have eyes on your ship during its "log-out" time).
If you could initiate a "safe" log off despite being targetted (hence, when you are in an unsafe situation), I would argue that the fact you have gone in to a safe-log timer should be visible to everyone else on grid (as doing a normal log-off is, since you see them vanish from local even though the ship is still in space) - maybe by a pulsing effect on the ship and the timer visible alongside in the manner of a reinforcement timer, so that enemies can react to the attempt to log off in the manner that they could if you had attempted a standard logoffski. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
627
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 12:02:51 -
[54] - Quote
wow
There used to be no timers at all. You could just logoff in the middle of combat hoping your ship survived for 30 seconds.
So CCP added timers to logoff and restrictions to the "safe logoff" system.
ALL you have to do now to keep a ship probable for 15 min is agress it.
And still you lot fail.
Amazing |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12546
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 12:18:32 -
[55] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:wow
There used to be no timers at all. You could just logoff in the middle of combat hoping your ship survived for 30 seconds.
So CCP added timers to logoff and restrictions to the "safe logoff" system.
ALL you have to do now to keep a ship probable for 15 min is agress it.
And still you lot fail.
Amazing
It's from your own alliance, is the very best part.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
628
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 12:19:29 -
[56] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Yarda Black wrote:wow
There used to be no timers at all. You could just logoff in the middle of combat hoping your ship survived for 30 seconds.
So CCP added timers to logoff and restrictions to the "safe logoff" system.
ALL you have to do now to keep a ship probable for 15 min is agress it.
And still you lot fail.
Amazing It's from your own alliance, is the very best part.
I'd say its the very worst. But I see your point :)
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10652
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 13:38:59 -
[57] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:But that's how it actually works. He can logoff at any time, the ship will disappear after some time if no one is shooting him. The only thing he can't do is to use the safe logoff function, because he was not in safety. That may be the case from the way the mechanics are designed currently, but that doesn't make it right. Why should someone be able to prevent someone from being safe, yet not be considered a hostile action? IMHO, the way it works with preventing a "normal" logoff is how it should work for the safe logoff too. If you want to stop someone safe logging off you should create a timer. If that means just using a rookie ship, fair enough, but the effort should be there. To be fair, this sounds the "right" way it should play out. If anything, it sounds like someone is trying to exploit the safe logoff function to pull a logoffski when in a most decidedly not-safe situation.
Exactly. CCP did away with 'logoffski' for a reason.
I think the thing to do in this case is bring some repper ships log off the freighter and pulse-rep it till it disappears or whatever (and if it's not an exploit, spawn CONCORD wherever the fighter is) |
Daerrol
Furtherance.
91
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 19:12:27 -
[58] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Ur missing the point here, why is there even safe logging if u just want everyone to dock and logg there? Point is, that someone is preveting u from safelogging without getting any timer or anything from it. Shooting, poiting and everthing else gives timers.
And in fact i know that code uses this in theyr advantege.
I safe log off all the time. You anti gankers are so F#@$ing frustrating. You realize mechanics exist that are used daily in PVP beyond CODE. bumping your industrial right? For instance, I safe log off in hostile null, always. I cannot dock. I want to ensure my ship safely logs out. Sometimes things have nothing to do with CODE. and miner bumping.
Isn't your corp supposed to be in Null anyways? |
Lux Jinks
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 21:05:35 -
[59] - Quote
im my mind english is broken. what can speak properly when others cant read what you saiding? |
Mario Putzo
1167
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 21:51:03 -
[60] - Quote
Make safe spot > warp to safe spot > safe log off > hope no one is sitting in your safe spot.
|
Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction
The Good Christian Society
496
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 22:20:14 -
[61] - Quote
Zerbyl wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Zerbyl wrote:In my mind mechanics behind safe logging is broken. Fact that u cant safe log when some one is locking u prevents from safe logging even if u are doing everything else right.
Discussion please Someone got his freight bumped Yes i got my freighter bumbed... six f'**ckg hours, knowing that all they want is that i logg off, so ill lose skill based bonuses...
You are in one of the biggest alliances in the game and you couldn't find anyone to help you over a 6 hour period.... |
Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium
334
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 00:14:36 -
[62] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:That sounds like a bit of a trap. If it's in HS, it will provoke a concord response, assuming it's not a wt....and I can only hope someone's not trying to log with a flashy on grid. The best policy...dock. Aggressive action is supposed to provoke a concord response. If you want to gank someone and they are trying to log off, shoot them. Seems a bit ludicrous that targeting them can prevent them safe logging off yet that's not considered an aggressive action in itself.
It goes back to the basic principle...if you are targeted, or if anyone is even on grid with you for that matter, whether you are engaged or not...you are not safe..period. Eve isn't meant to be safe.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5298
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 07:21:58 -
[63] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:That sounds like a bit of a trap. If it's in HS, it will provoke a concord response, assuming it's not a wt....and I can only hope someone's not trying to log with a flashy on grid. The best policy...dock. Aggressive action is supposed to provoke a concord response. If you want to gank someone and they are trying to log off, shoot them. Seems a bit ludicrous that targeting them can prevent them safe logging off yet that's not considered an aggressive action in itself. It goes back to the basic principle...if you are targeted, or if anyone is even on grid with you for that matter, whether you are engaged or not...you are not safe..period. Eve isn't meant to be safe. That could be said for anything. You aren't safe in space, so you should only be able to safe log off while docked for example. And you can safe log off with people on grid, so why is that possible?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35608
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 07:31:48 -
[64] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:And you can safe log off with people on grid, so why is that possible?
Because people being on grid is not part of the mechanic.
If you safe log with someone on grid and they don't do anything, then all well and good. But if they do something, then the safe log off is instantly cancelled and no longer possible.
There are plenty of places someone can be safe, even when undocked. Safe logff gives you certainty about being removed from space after 30 sec, as opposed to logging off and not knowing what happens to your ship in the 60 sec that follows.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5298
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:03:34 -
[65] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:And you can safe log off with people on grid, so why is that possible? Because people being on grid is not part of the mechanic. If you safe log with someone on grid and they don't do anything, then all well and good. But if they do something, then the safe log off is instantly cancelled and no longer possible. There are plenty of places someone can be safe, even when undocked. Safe logff gives you certainty about being removed from space after 30 sec, as opposed to logging off and not knowing what happens to your ship in the 60 sec that follows. OK, so why if you are safe on grid, but not safe when targeted, is the act of targeting not a hostile action. If I perform an action on you that removes your safety against your will, that's aggressive, no?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35613
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:25:58 -
[66] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:OK, so why if you are safe on grid, but not safe when targeted, is the act of targeting not a hostile action. If I perform an action on you that removes your safety against your will, that's aggressive, no?
Because crimewatch doesn't recognise a simple target lock as an action to trigger a timer. It looks for the activation of an aggressive module (including non-targeted weapons like a smartbomb).
Since targeting is not the activation of an aggressive module, then no timer. But you aren't safe when being targeted, just not aggressed yet.
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
809
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:35:44 -
[67] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:OK, so why if you are safe on grid, but not safe when targeted, is the act of targeting not a hostile action. If I perform an action on you that removes your safety against your will, that's aggressive, no? Because crimewatch doesn't recognise a simple target lock as an action to trigger a timer. It looks for the activation of an aggressive module (including a smartbomb where you aren't even specifically targeted). Since targeting is not the activation of an aggressive module, then no timer. But you aren't safe when being targeted, just not aggressed yet.
Scipio ...... do you know, that ...
... all of this has been said already in this thread ...
... and even the wiki article is updated now.
You're wasting your time.
Do you like repeating everything for the slow ones?
Two times? Three times?
That's so nice of you! :)
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5298
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:40:27 -
[68] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:OK, so why if you are safe on grid, but not safe when targeted, is the act of targeting not a hostile action. If I perform an action on you that removes your safety against your will, that's aggressive, no? Because crimewatch doesn't recognise a simple target lock as an action to trigger a timer. It looks for the activation of an aggressive module (including non-targeted weapons like a smartbomb). Since targeting is not the activation of an aggressive module, then no timer. But you aren't safe when being targeted, just not aggressed yet. It only doesn't recognise it because it's not been told to. If someone targeting another player is a hostile enough action to prevent them from being safe, then surely it should trigger a timer. OTOH, perhaps if someone wants to make someone unsafe they should have to take a more aggressive action.
Let's face it, the whole safe logoff stuff was put in around supercaps and now gets used and abused by everyone and his nan.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35614
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:42:33 -
[69] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Do you like repeating everything for the slow ones?
Lucas doesn't seem slow to me.
From what I have read, he has the view that things should be made more difficult for gankers/bumpers and/or easier for industrialists. He's not alone in that view and appears to be arguing from that premise.
It's not one I agree with.
So I don't mind discussing it, because even if he could argue for a change, the change wouldn't only affect bump/gank situations, but also potentially fleet fights and other pvp situations. People would find a way to use a changed mechanic to their benefit, no matter what the situation.
But since a question was asked, I'm happy to answer and try to discuss it logically and reasonably, as I think Lucas is too.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5298
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Posted - 2015.04.08 08:49:49 -
[70] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:From what I have read, he has the view that things should be made more difficult for gankers/bumpers and/or easier for industrialists. He's not alone in that view. Nearly. I'd be quite happy to see things made more difficult for industrialists too. The way I see it is that ganking/bumping is carebear PvP - low risk, low effort, low commitment, high reward. It could do with a rebalance. PvE is the same though, mission blitzing is ludicrously easy and could be sorted by shaking up the missions so they aren't so predictable. Mining is much lower reward but still way too predictable. At the very least I'd randomise ice spawn locations. For the most part lowsec is dead and I'd love to see more of a reason and more ability for PvE to extend out into that.
With this particular topic, I don't particularly care about the mechanics but I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, because I can at the very least see where they are coming from.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
812
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 08:52:18 -
[71] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:Do you like repeating everything for the slow ones? Lucas doesn't seem slow to me. From what I have read, he has the view that things should be made more difficult for gankers/bumpers and/or easier for industrialists. He's not alone in that view and appears to be arguing from that premise. So I don't mind discussing it, because even if he could argue for a change, the change wouldn't only affect bump/gank situations, but also potentially fleet fights and other pvp situations. People would find a way to use a changed mechanic to their benefit, no matter what the situation. But since a question was asked, I'm happy to answer and try to discuss it logically and reasonably, as I think Lucas is too.
Don't open that box.
Questions which are already answered in this thread.
By the wiki.
By thinking for a minute.
He asked why the sky is blue.
You explained it to him.
Then he said "yeah but".
And this is how it works.
Ad infinitum.
He's not better than all the other freaks who just want to hear that they are right
and always believe they know better than CCP or anyone else.
See above.
Ad infinitum.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35615
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 09:02:11 -
[72] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:With this particular topic, I don't particularly care about the mechanics but I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, because I can at the very least see where they are coming from.
Playing devil's advocate only works up to a point. Saying the same thing over and over isn't devil's advocate beyond the first time.
It just becomes argumentative for the sake of argument if no new point or information is provided.
It happens in a lot of threads. Doesn't make it useful.
The mechanics are what they are and there aren't too many people that seem to have a problem with them (this isn't a regular thread or complaint for example).
I don't see them changing, but if they did, they would change equally for everyone no matter what the anticipated gameplay is. That's emergent when it happens and part of what CCP are happy with in the game.
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Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium
338
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 10:43:43 -
[73] - Quote
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - Augustine of Hippo
I think that about sums it up in a lot of ways for a lot of people...just for the sake of argument. Nothing personal. 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
33820
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 11:06:12 -
[74] - Quote
Angelica Everstar wrote:Targeting is not an issue. The 30 secs is a HUGE issue - should have been 60 secs. Try scanning anyone down in a safespot in 30 secs, and get them targeted
That's why it's called "Log off safely"
Why do bad threads happen to good people?
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