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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 04:01:00 -
[1]
Yup. It needs the 6 guns + 1 launcher and 250m3 drone bay it had before kali went live on sisi :)
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:18:00 -
[2]
Edited by: keepiru on 26/10/2006 10:25:20
Its the same gun dps of a vexor though, nothing to write home about tbh.
Keep in mind Jim, if you want to use 2 couple of med noses along with a dual-rep tank you can only fit electron IIs, and even then you're limited to 2 med noses tanks to low grid, IIRC
I motion that it should be given 125m3 and a 6th turret mount and then tested further. If that turns out to be too powerful a high can be moved to a low - that limits you to 6/1 or 5/2 or 4/3, which should chop down any attempt at ovepoweredness.
In a real fight against BC/BS even 5 HD IIs and 5 (6?) T2 blasters will give your opponent ample time to kill your drones off... heck, the way I fight drone ships is to kill their drones with mine while I shoot him with my guns, with the HP boost that's a *very* effective tactic.
Personally, I dont think that further changes beside 125m3 and 6 turrets will be necessary - you'll have a powerful droneship that can do many things, yes, but you'll also have to make choices when setting up, unlike an ishtar =p
For example, if you fit 6 guns you'll have the same nossage as most other BCs, which means you need an injector to run a dual tank, which means you can only use electrons or dual 150s...
Or, say you decide to max damage by bringing heavy drones, you can outdamage a brutix with the same tank, yes (once you add guns), but with no backups and ample time for your enemy to kill your drones off, its also a very foolhardy, and not one I'd do if I was flying solo =P
Or, you got for heavy nossage, but that cripples your grid, because every Medium Nos II is nearly 2 less electron IIs you fit, so you bring medium drones so you have backup, but then youre giving him *very slow* death, so you better hope he doesent have any friends nearby =P
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:29:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Jim McGregor
One Ogre II has about 100 dps, doesnt it
86.4dps with max skills, and drones didn't get a 50% hp boost, so a rather easily killed gun - one blaster on my brutix does as much damage.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:37:00 -
[4]
1 less turret, and NO HYBRID DAMAGE BONUS - the brutix in fact has 7*1.25=8.75 turrets, so in fact that would be nearly 3 turrets less, or 31% less guns.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 10:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: keepiru on 26/10/2006 10:46:04
Because the hard truth is, any BC that doesn't outdamage its respective HAC pretty much sucks =P
So it needs to field 5 heavyes and more guns than an ishtar (which has 3*1.25=3.75 guns). And what's wrong with 6 turret hardpoints anyway? If you don't like guns fit more noses.
I sure as hell don't wanna fly a ship that has 6 gfx hardpoonts but only 6 ingame, that sucks =P
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
475 dps from drones + 5 blasters with damage mods makes it 550? Seems to me that you are keeping these figures very, very low to boost your gallentean wishes instead of thinking about game balance.
But it doesnt matter. I mean, even if the boat had like 1500 dps, alot of gallente players would say "Thats balanced, because drones can be destroyed!". I dont buy it. We might all be blind to the other side since most of us players focus on one/two races, but in the end, we have to think of game balance.
Psh. 432dps from 5 max-skilled Ogre IIs. Add 5 guns with no bonuses on them, and I'll be surprised if you even reach 550.
My brutix does that much with 2 damage mods, and then you add about 150dps from 5 medium drones - and that's in tanky setup, if I use T2 ammo and a gank neutron setup I'll do about 900 =P
And yes, heavy drones are stupidly easy to kill - its like swatting stupid fat flies out the air with an electrified racket, only not as fun.
Oh and I fly all 4 races, but only battlecruisers, no other class anymore =P
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jago X
got completely annihilated by a minnie BC (which seems pretty overpowered i must say).Jago
No, its just that the myrmidon sucks golfballs through gardenhoses for a living, and thats the cold hard truth.
In its current state the only other BC it stands a chance of killing is the Ferox, and that's very dependant on the Ferox's setup. Let alone taking on HACs, which is the main I use I have for the class a whole.
Reminds me very much of how BCs when I started playing 1.5 years ago - weak, crippled ships. I pity the fool who thinks this ship is much good right now.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 14:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: keepiru on 26/10/2006 14:51:47
Edited by: keepiru on 26/10/2006 14:51:20
Numbers for the drake must be wrong, it tops out @ 400dps with heavy IIs, you must be missing the RoF bonus. Sounds about right, 25% rof adds the 33% dps youre missing.
Which btw means ~600 with assaults, since they do about 50% more dps :)
Brutix and Harbinger should do even more, my 2 ion/5 electron fit does like 500ish just from guns with 2 magstabs and AM, and my skills arent maxed.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 15:02:00 -
[9]
Which would give it 675dps in assault mode 
How much DPS does a Myrmidon with Ogre IIs and damage mods get again? 4 and 5 drones plz, mr slave ^^
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 15:40:00 -
[10]
Edited by: keepiru on 26/10/2006 15:40:37
Ok, what about with 5 heavys but no dmg mod?
Assume that the bonus to drone dmg is replaced with a +dronebay like the Eos. Say 100 base, 25m3 per level, no dmg bonus. And 6 turrets.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: keepiru
Edited by: keepiru on 26/10/2006 15:40:37
Ok, what about with 5 heavys but no dmg mod?
Assume that the bonus to drone dmg is replaced with a +dronebay like the Eos. Say 100 base, 25m3 per level, no dmg bonus. And 6 turrets.
317 drone damage (at best). /me cringes.
At least the Eos has adequate turret hardpoints and bonuses.
Yuck. Well it has to get a bigger dronebay either way or its a crippled ship =/
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 17:48:00 -
[12]
Brutix needs more grid, but mainly more cargo space so you can have a medium can and enough space for a full ammo reload and an 800 charge.
Being able to fit full ions with mwd, jector and dual reps the way the Hurricane fits full 220s would be nice, because the range is a serious is a much bigger larger problem than on a thorax.
But that's quite beside the point of this thread :)
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 19:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Centurin
I dont really understand you, Jim. You got your Drake. It pwns every other BC.
Afaik, Jim flies Matari ships.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 20:43:00 -
[14]
That's cause he's a GTC-using loozah and cant login himself  
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Matyae
Edited by: Matyae on 26/10/2006 23:18:34
Originally by: keepiru
Which btw means ~600 with assaults, since they do about 50% more dps :)
Oh. 50% more dps ? Could you show me how you got this number please ? To me it seems much more like 25%. :)
Heavy missile, base 125hp damage, Heavy launcher II base rof 12sec.
Heavy assault is 100 damage, 6.4rof.
Which gets you 125/12=10.426* base t2 launcher dps for heavies, and 100/6.4=15.625 base t2 launcher dps for heavy assaults.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Matyae
Heavy missiles = 150 damage, not 125.
Heavy : 150dmg/12s = 12.5dps
Heavy assault : 100dmg/6.4s = 15.625dps
15.625/12.5 = 1.25 = 25% 
Huh, don't ask me how I managed to look up heavy missiles twice while on SISI and get 125 both times. *shrug*
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.28 07:45:00 -
[17]
^^^^^ back in your place alt! (was me)
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.28 20:47:00 -
[18]
Or its in gank shield-tanked mode, and then you're too worried about the 8-900dps its throwing at you to try to take out its drones.
The Myrmidon itself does laughable damage, so you can happily ignore it while you eliminate its drones.
Needs ≥ 225m3 drone bay and 6 guns, and no mistake.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
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