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I'm posting this in an open channel for all to read and learn from. I'll be giving my opinions on what went wrong and hopefully how we can improve. I expect this to be a long read.

There is no intent in this post to flame anybody personally; anything I write here mentioning a person will be to either praise them or hopefully give them some insight in what they can do better.

With that, let the Report Begin
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At approximately 01:56 EVE 10 Dreads beloning to CLS-F, VAF, STK-S and TLSW left AZN and followed the dread chain to H8-.

At approximately 02:03 we enter H8- and group at the Friendly POS for bios and to get warpin information on the BoB POS. In addition to that, I confirm what the POS has for modules and we fit appropriate ammo.

At 02:15 We warp to the 6-5 BoB tower with hardners on and reppers running to counter and CTDs that could occur during the load of the POS. At this time, there were 379 in Alliance chat and 107 in H8- local. Of those 107, 10 are from the Dread Fleet, 9 are POS and 2 are BoB. Quick math says this is about a 25% participation rate.

At 02:16 We begin the siege on the POS.

During the siege, we've kept a close eye on intelligence reports of a BoB fleet in GQ2 of approximately 35 ships. We will later learn that it wasn't 35 ships, it was 35 BS that was supposed to be relayed.

** Lesson ** When relaying/giving intelligence, you MUST be precise in what you say.

After learning that it's a BoB gang of about 60 (including 40 BS) the gang at the gate gets ready for action. The ASCN support gang in H8- consisted of approximately 10 BS and the rest in various ship sizes.

At 02:47 BoB enters H8- local. There was a fair amount of lag for me personally when they jumped in. Modules wouldn't turn on for a good 5-10 minutes. I'm not aware if anybody else had this issue or not.

After a few minutes of battle at the gate, the BoB fleet controlled the system.

At 03:01 2 Dreads pilots had crashed and were attempting to log back in. Queue for me was 2 minutes.

At 03:07 the BoB fleet gathers at their POS to begin shooting our dreads. By this time, the 2 CTD'd pilots had logged back on and were in the process of repairing lost armor and regaining cap.

It was too late at that point. The warpin lag from the BoB fleet caused one of my accounts to crash again while I was somewhat lagged on my other account.

Between 03:07 and 03:10 3 Naglfars, 3 Moros and 1 Phoenix were destroyed. The other 3 pilots were able to cyno out to save their ships.

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That's the events and how they played out according to my notes. I took approximations based upon the intelligence I had at the time and from talking to other members.

The following are my opinions and suggestions:

1. Tomcatt did an AMAZING job with teh support fleet in H8-. He did wonders with the ships that were available to him. We should all thank him for a job well done.

2. Thank you Zlake, Lost Soul666 and Genrom for your cynos.

3. Thank you Metacannibal for getting the AZN gang to H8- in an orderly fashion.

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4. We only had 25% participation from online pilots. Let's do some quick math to figure this out. With 400 in Alliance, 100 in gang and approximating 2 pilots per member on average, that leaves 200 members that didn't bother to show up or help out. This is where we lose. There is no excuse for not showing up. I had reports of a large group of people mining, ratting and plexing while this was taking place. Alts or not, this MUST stop. Even if you're mining on an alt while fighting, you MUST log that alt off. ASCN needs to learn that during war, the fight is your primary responsability. Logging your alt off for a few minutes doesn't hurt anything. Once the battle is complete, go right back to what you were doing.

5. There was clearly not enough large ship support. While Tomcat did an awesome job with what he had, he could have done more if the right ships had been brought. From the looks of it, it appears as if most of you were in T1 cruisers or frigs. This MUST stop. A LOT can be accomplished if you bring the right ship. If you can't afford anything but a T1 cruiser then we need to have another discussion.

6. Target calling was not good. Tomcatt started off great, but apparently it got to a point where the targets were just too far away for the T1 cruisers to even lock. Tomcatt, I think you can become better from this by studying the ships in your gang before you engage to find your weaknesses and strong points. Personally, I imagine any fleet I FC as an extention of me. I know what my ships can do and what they can't do. I then move/adapt mid stream to focus on the gangs strong points. Again Tomcatt, awesome job. I would be happy to fly with you any day. Let's see what we can learn from this.

7. Secondary target calling was non-existant. As soon as Tomcatt was popped, nobody called targets. Guys, you NEED to learn to step up to the plate and start calling targets. It doesn't take much to do. Pick some names and do it. If you know that a target is causing too much grief for your gang, don't be afraid to switch primaries.

I'll add more to this as I can, but I'd like to get this up for now so you can all see what happened and hopefully we can have a peacfull discussion of how we can improve here.

As of this moment, 2 of the dreads have already been replaced and are sitting in the hangars now. Replacements for the other dreads will be here within a couple days.

This is where ASCN shines; replacement dreads in a couple days is just amazing.

In closing, I really do hope that we can learn from this. I already can see what we can do when BoB brings their capital fleet to ASCN space. That right there is a tremendous help. But, let's remember one thing: BoB will come (and reports point to this weekend) and we WILL need participation of close to 100%. Let's figure out a way that we can get our members to come to the fight ready to rock and roll.

Again guys, we may have lost some dreads and some BS tonight, but we still have Sov, our dread losses will be replaced in a couple days and we had some fun.

Now, I just have to wait for this post to appear on the EVE-O forums....

Keep up the good work guys...

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Originally by: SirMolle

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Dammit, beat me to it. Oh well, next time.

Here's a hint; Stop trying to find excuses, and deal with reality when trying to fix flaws.

You lost 7 dreads and 20-30 bships in one engagement. Deal with it.

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Originally by: TWD

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110 ASCN in H8, ~60 in our gang sounds right.

Those numbers about shiptypes are off.

You mention 10 battleships in your gang? How come we killed around 30 battleships ?

The battleship numbers looked pretty damn even to me.

Your side had more support, and we jumped in.

Good fight, try again.

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Originally by: Caybn E'vangel

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We jumped into your Interdictor camp heavily outnumbered, and decimated your fleet.

Trying claiming we have a 40 to 10 bs advantage and your intel was wrong is trying to make escuses. Battleship numbers were even at best.

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Originally by: Caybn E'vangel

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Originally by: Drakma

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After learning that it's a BoB gang of about 60 (including 40 BS) the gang at the gate gets ready for action. The ASCN support gang in H8- consisted of approximately 10 BS and the rest in various ship sizes.

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There, see it now? I comprehend that your full of it.

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Originally by: Rift Scorn

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Originally by: Drakma

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Originally by: Caybn E'vangel

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We jumped into your Interdictor camp heavily outnumbered, and decimated your fleet.

Trying claiming we have a 40 to 10 bs advantage and your intel was wrong is trying to make escuses. Battleship numbers were even at best.

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I think you need to take some reading comprehension courses.

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You need to take some Math comprehension classes if you seriously think you only had 10 BS on that gate.

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Originally by: algorythm

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Edited by: algorythm on 26/10/2006 06:52:24
To avoid lag:

1. I would sugest you tell your pilots to stop using bookmarks on their cargoholds.


2. Dont camp with drones deployed, wait for the battle to start, then deploy them

This lags the system, the node, lags us, lags you.


You forgot to mention:

1. The two carriers you had in system with drones deployed


2. Again has was stated above, we killed 29 battleships, first at the gate, and minutes later at the pos, out of 10 you say you had there

Overall, a good fight, thanks for not running away this time!

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Originally by: Caybn E'vangel

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Originally by: Drakma

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Originally by: Caybn E'vangel

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Originally by: Drakma

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After learning that it's a BoB gang of about 60 (including 40 BS) the gang at the gate gets ready for action. The ASCN support gang in H8- consisted of approximately 10 BS and the rest in various ship sizes.

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There, see it now? I comprehend that your full of it.

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No, I still think you don't see it.

1) I said those numbers were approximations

2) At the time you jumped in, the H8- gang consisted of approximately 10 BS

3) An additional gang came in from HH well after the engagement had already started. Those numbers were not included in what was in H8-

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No, that's not an estimation. See, what you've done is combine an exaggeration (Our BS numbers) with a lie (your BS numbers) to create what most would describe as an escuse. Rift and I read just fine, TY.

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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Look guys, just post the factual kills results and people will draw their own conlclusions about the numbers given by Drakma.

In the mean while, gj on the pre-emptive spin there Drakma. You're admitting just enough of the obvious shortcomings of your alliance organisation in this instance to get away with, yet are able to put it all in a semi-contructive tone so as to nicely downplay the fact that it was just crappy play that lost you this one.

Next time it's going to be the same btw. And the time after that, and after that, etc. etc. Replace all you want, at some point it's going to be just you and your dread accounts remaining, and it will all end in tears.

And one free tip for you: don't run multiple accounts with dreads. Participation may be low, but trying to cover that with mutliple accounts is just asking to be spanked tbh. It won't fly in POS-fights.

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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Edited by: Rod Blaine on 26/10/2006 07:03:48

edit: Nice Drakma, but playing with the numbers that way is not very impressive. You knew very well that more died, and thus more were there. You're just downplaying the loss again.

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Originally by: Randay

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Originally by: Drakma

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2) I think most of you are missing who the target audience was here. This was posted for ASCN members to read and see. The carriers there were of no consequence to the points I was trying to make. Yes, they were there (3 actually) and they had their use.

3) I didn't say there was only 10 BS there. I said the gang in H8- at the time had approximately 10.

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So you repost here a post only meant for ASCN members to read. And then get all mad when people dont see things the way you do. And I guess "various other ships" means "various other battleships, dreadnoughts, and carriers"? The killboard tells a great story.

I think I have decided to laugh instead of cry. yes.

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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Edited by: Rod Blaine on 26/10/2006 07:24:17

Originally by: Drakma

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And before you spin the "few" comment, yes, I concider even 30 BS a "few" I personally produce that many in a week.

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That's nice for you.
But it's not helping you populate your fleets much is it ?

ASCN have yet to win a battle in this war, doesn't that strike you as somewhat of a problem when we're about a month into it already ?

You may have gotten a gank here and there, won about three and a half of the two hundred or so skirmishes with frig/cruiser gangs, but have won not a single real fight where it mattered.

How do you figure you're going to turn that around so as to get better fleet composition and turnout ? If people simply know that boarding that pvp ship is equal to losing it in a silly way within a day, they're not likely to board something usefull and expensive, or anything at all for that matter.

Do you think that downplaying the losses under protection of the excuse that you 'forgot' to check your facts before posting is really going to help there ? Or that saying you personally build 30 BS a week will help others decide to take the one they built into a fight to lose it ? (I'd say they're more likely to wonder where those 30 BS/week end up)

Well, maybe it will. It's better then saying we faked the killmails, that's for sure...

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Originally by: Miv333

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ROFL BIGGEST LIE EVER

LETS POST ONPUBLIC EVE FORUMS FOR ONLY ASCN MEMBERS TO READ ROFLROFLRFOL ASCN IS TOO POOR FOR THEIR OWN FORUMS!?!

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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All true (well, i havent checked the market for those bs actually).

Let's keep it at a small error of judegement then. It would be smart to avoid giving us forum-ammo next time by checking your numbers to make sure they wwere correct.

Actually, you deserve a compliment tbh. You seem to be much better at this then Cyvok and most certainly then Mccreedy or samuraijack. The truth content of your post may not have been 100%, but it's been closer hten anything else i've seen come forth from ASCN spokesmen in a good while

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Originally by: Reite

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Everyone please stop posting till ridari answers. We wouldnt want it to drown in smack;)

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