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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:09:00 - [1] With a 3 active harderner setup. Heeello, RMR is here. Try it with 3 EAN2.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:37:00 - [2] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Simply you can't give a drone bonus to a ship that has 2.5x the grid of a Dominix. If it would be changed this way (which I hostely doubt, no matter how much justified complaining will happen, I would bet 100 mil that the aba will be virtually unchanged (exept perhaps a bit more grid) when kali goes live)..er..where was I? Anyway, IF if it would be changed this way obviously the grid would have to be reduced as well.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.29 15:13:00 - [3] Edited by: Aramendel on 29/10/2006 15:13:59 Originally by: Grimpak because, tbh, it's the only race where we can see that there is a gap in the battleships lineup, in terms of the racial type of warfare (railgun snipers). Well, the reason for this is because they have an EW BS, while all other races miss one. So I would say the gap for the other races is just as present. Unless, of cource, caldari are supposed to have 3 specialisations (ecm, missles & rails) and other races only 2.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.29 18:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Kaylana Syi ...But... alas people would complain and tbh target painters just suck as an ewar system as-is. Maybe if they were a resistance breaker effect to TPs like in that one good thread I'd support it. I wouldn't even classify target painters as EW. It needs about as much an utility boost as (tranquility) ECM needs an utility nerf. Personally I would just remove the classification of TP as EW and give the minnie ships the gallente warp disruptor range bonus instead, making them the ultimate "catch you!" ship. Might be a bit too strong then though. And then there would be the question what to give the gallente recons.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Logan Xerxes Please tell me how when you put in a radio or X-ray crystal that is light and not EM :) [PhysicsNerd] Light IS a packet of electromagnetic waves jsut like Radio or X-rays, just is that our eyes can detect them and it has different properties to others wavelengths.[/PhysicsNerd] Problem is that the effect of EM waves IS heat, aka thermic damage. There really is no such thing as "EM damage". Unless you are the opinion armor can get sunburns.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:53:00 - [6] Edited by: Aramendel on 30/10/2006 11:53:34 Originally by: Grimpak true there, however, only caldari has ECM as a more pro-active type of Ewar that is usefull in general fleet wether long or short range, while all the other races Ewar mods are more skirmish related (damps and TD's have too short range for fleet battle usage and TP's are nigh useless except for a few, very specific situations) The bigger range of ECM comes from the ship boni, not from the EW system. Without it multispecs have barely more range than damperners and racial ECM hasn't much of an range advantage over tracking disruptors either. Quote: so yes, you could say that, I see Ewar not that important in the amarr/gallente/minmatar racial concepts, wich base themselves in tankability for amarr, damage for gallente and speed for minmatar, with secondary for "lots of turrets" approach for amarr, remote firepower (droning) for gallente, and firepower flexibility for minmatar. for caldari I see more long range firepower projection (even if missiles are sometimes slow to go long ranges, they still go long range, specially with many bonuses for missile speed and flight time that exist in caldari ships), and ECM. It does not really work that way. While missiles can be longrange weapons their real strength lies in midrange engagements. They are just too different to turrets to be put into a longrange drawer along with them. Also, if tankability is an core aspect of amarr it is also one of caldari. A raven has actually a stronger tank than an apoc, at least if the latter is using his racial weapon (aka lasers) and not projectiles. What you wrote is simply not how things are in the game. The current situation is more like this: Every race has an EW frigate and cruiser. Every race has (more or less) 2 core racial concepts. For caldari it would me missle spammer and rail sniper. For gallente droneship and blasterboat. For amarr a dps ship and a tankship (The dps/droneship miss at the t1 frigate lvl for amarr/gallente, though, but are present with the assault frigate line). On the BS lvl caladri hs the EW & missileship, missing the rail sniper. Gallente has the drone & blaster ship, missing the EW ship. Amarr has the dps & tankship, missing the EW ship. Minmatar is missing so far, though. That race is a bit harder to define due to it's jack of all trades nature. You could prolly call their first speciality a fast shortrange scirmisher (stabber, typhoon) and their 2nd spec a ship with a good offense/defence/speed balance (rifter/rupture/tempest).
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.30 12:43:00 - [7] Edited by: Aramendel on 30/10/2006 12:45:11 Originally by: Grimpak So yes, in sum, while Ewar, more specifically ECM, are one of the mainstray forms of war of the caldari, the other races are more of hi-tech firepower (blasters + droning), or sieging capabilities (pure firepower + staying power in form of armor), or guerrilla hit-and-run tactics (speed + versatility), which puts Ewar in second, or even third plan. sigh Yes, and likewise the caldari lineup put longrange rail sniping have heavy shield tanking (which is just as good as amarr tanking) as 3rd priority. Until now, till the 3rd tier BS. As said, you cannot put missles and rails in the same pot, just as you cannot put drones and blasters in the same pot.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.30 13:44:00 - [8] Edited by: Aramendel on 30/10/2006 13:45:42 Originally by: Grimpak in the drones + blasters thing, one thing we can be sure that both are excellent short range weapons, which obeys to the gallente's racial concept. Yes, but so are missle & rails. The point is, either you could drones & blasters as one single racial concepts if you count missles & rails as one single concept or you count drones & blasters as 2 different concepts if you count rails & missiles as 2 different concepts. The problem is that whatever version you choose, caldari have then 1 specialisation more than gallente. It's either "missles & rails & ECM vs drones & blasters" or "longrange weapons & ECM vs shortrange weapons".
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.02 21:20:00 - [9] Edited by: Aramendel on 02/11/2006 21:22:31 The problem really is that the amarr "fluff" conflicts with the game balancing. Amarr are from the fluff supposed to have high dps, strong tank ships, but are not very subtle. Well, one year ago that was pretty much the case. The problem was that this particular fluff was too strong, the uber amarr gankships got nerfed and are now pretty much inline with the other races ship. Basically: amarr lost the uber gank/tank fluff but still have the inflexible fluff. Backstory is nice & fine, but when it does conflict with the balance the balance always wins. The backstory is more an inspiration than a codex. And as Udyr Vulpayne said, there are LOTS of colicts between the backstory and what is actually present ingame. So, basically, amarr need some additional "postive" fluff. The uber gank/tank one just does not work in gamebalance terms, so we won't see that one again. Tux himself also admitted than amarr need some 3rd fluff.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.11 21:50:00 - [10] Originally by: XFreedomX IMO, fleet BS are not suppose to operate in a vacume. Abaddon seems fine to me, with what everyone is saying, its biggest problem is CAP. Isn't that what logistic ships are for? And the reason you would take 1 logistic ship and 1 abaddon instead of 2 geddons is?

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.12 18:57:00 - [11] Originally by: XFreedomX Well... While I wouldn't take 1 logistic and 1 Abaddon over 2 geddon, I would take 4 Abaddon and 2 logistic over 6 geddon. The Abaddon can be equiped for Max dmg and Tank with no wasted slots used for CAP. Point here is there are ways to overcome deficiencies in a ship, Abadon fleets can be warped out to recharge and back in to re-engage if needed. As for logistic ships been called primary first, that only shows how powerful they are if left alone.... Problem is that a 6 geddon outfit will still do more dps than a 4 abaddon outfit. You would need 7 abaddons vs 8 geddons to get equal dps (for longrange setups without drones). For the combined HPs 6 geddons also beat 4 abas easily, even with their resistance bonus. They are also cheaper alltogether and faster. And the reason logistic ships are called primary is not because they pop very fast. They do not represent an huge danger, but since they get destroyed with so little effort their damage inflicted/firepower invested ratio is very high.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Perry I got the impression, that we gave our opinions clear and easy to understand. CCP is ignoring them, so why bother anymore? But ofcourse you could be right and one last uber post with super clear facts changes all. But why do Caldari get their good tier 3 and all others need to do math? We want: Amarr: Good skirmish BS for short range solo/gang/support(ew), eg big Arbitrator, Missleship, mix of it, we dont care as long as we dont get a third subpar fleet bs. Gallente: Either a true Blastership with uber close range gank, or Support BS with many medslots and EW Bonus (Big Celestis). Minmatar: Uber AC Boat with speed, many turrets medium tank, and perhaps adjustments to Typhoon/Tempest to become Support/Long Range Ships, eg TP Bonus for Typhoon to use Missles far more effective (perhaps 5 missleslots) and the Tempest gets a bit more grid for those 1400mm. But it will get ignored and we get a third Crap Amarr ship, a second Blasterboat thats alomost a copy of Megathron, and a "i dont know what im good for" BS Pretty much QFT
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 18:25:00 - [13] While it would certainly would make it better than it is now you might as well just remove the apoc from the game then.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 19:23:00 - [14] I was referring to Originally by: Karash Amerius How about making the Abaddon go in the same vien as the Augoror? Bonus: 10% Cap Reduction Large Energy Turret / 10% Armor HP per level. I think that would be a good "role" I would really be interested where the apoc would be preferable then. Certainly not in fleet warefare.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:56:00 - [15] Edited by: Aramendel on 15/11/2006 19:57:23 Originally by: Zixxa Quote: and you continue to say tank is useless, In fleet tank is useless. Nobody can tank being locked primary more than ping time. ... Quote: dps is useless... You lie. ... Second most important thing for fleet is DPS. And Rokh's DPS is miserable. You are contradicting yourself here. A tank is the counterpart to dps. If a tank is useless dps is useless as well. If dps is important a tank is important, too. Note that "tank" does not necessarily mean "active armor/shield tank" or "passive recharge shieldtank", an "I have 1 zillion extenders/plates fitted where you have to chew through first" is a tank as well. When people use the "passive tank" term for fleet setups they mean the "HP buffer" tank, not the "shield recharge" tank.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 04:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Nifel The geddon needs 2 RCUII to fit 7x Tachyon II's. And the abaddon needs to fit about 4-5 cap recharge modules to sustain fire.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 06:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Nifel Yeah? And what about the rest of the fittings. But that is the whole point. Yes, a geddon need 2 RCUs to fit 7 tachs. But an aba needs 1 RCU for 8 tach2, too. And 2 cap injectors to keep them firing for over 1 minute. Add 1 EAN2 to the geddon and both ships have exactly the same number of free slots. Quote: Still think the Abaddon should have enough pg to put on 8x tach2 without fitting mods, 10% hp & 5% res and enough cap to fire the tachs for 3-4 minutes straight. Would make a valuable fleet ship, good buffer tank and possibly a good pulse/tank boat depending on just how much cap it'd be given. Yes, like that it would be a valuable fleet ship. Would need 24-25k grid for that though. And, of cource, there is then still the question if amarr really need another fleet ship or what exactly the apoc is then for.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:23:00 - [18] Edited by: Aramendel on 18/11/2006 16:26:50 The scorp (and BB) has a 20% range boost/lvl, not 10%. Were the gal & amarr ECM BSs intentionally given weaker boni than caldari due to the higher amount of HPs, etc? Also, I would give the aba rather -2 highs and +2 mids (and reduced grid). An utility BS with only 5 meds is a bit low. Yes, it's amarr, but that would still be 1 less than gallente and 2 less than caldari.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Zixxa Damage bonus is useful always, range bonus only sometimes. When your enemy outranges you a damage bonus is pretty useless. 0 dps * 1.25 -> 0 dps
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.24 13:22:00 - [20] Exept it isn't that easy. The rohk has for fleetbattles 2 advantages: - t2 longrange with t1 ammo For all other BSs if you only have t1 guns you are not able to participate when you need sniping distances. Which happens in fleetbattles regulary. Rohk pilots can. No, with their t1 guns & ammo they won't do as much dps as other BSs with t2 ammo, but 50% of other ships dps is still preferable with 0% of their dps. - surgical strikes with t2 ammo In a BS blob vs BS blob slugfest rohks won't be THAT effective, yes, but thats not everything fleet combat is about. Vitally important for any fleet are support ships. Interdictors, intys, EW cruisers,... The more effective fleets in EVE usualyl have a good amount of theses with them (i.e. BOB). Rohks with t2 ammo will be perfect to take these out. Before the real battle starts a smart fleet comamnder will use t2 fitted rohks to warp to a 250k sniper spot, kill 4-5 support ships & warp out. Repeat. Once you have enough rohks you can do the same thing against enemy BSs (scorpians would be prime targets there). An enemy fleet softened this way is a much easier target for your own main fleet to take out. And the only counter for this are...rohks. A good deal more rohks than the other side to be specific. This is where their resistance bonus will prove extremly usefull - it makes tham a lot more durable against counterfire from enemy rohks. A lot more dureable than anything else bar other tier 3 ships. Which will be the last possible targets. So your only option to inflict on a rohk commando as many losses as they inflict on you is to have about 50% more rohks they they have. Otherwise, as said, the enemy fleet will just kill your support ships with their rohks and then the enemy fleet + rohks + their support ships will destroy the rest of your fleet. What we'll see is an arms race in t2 rohks for enemy fleets.

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Zixxa Please, Amarr, no more propaganda. You had whined for Best Fleet BS for you and you have got it. Abaddon has now best alpha-strike and best med-long range DPS. Absolutely best fleet BS. Hands down. Now you are mendaciously complimenting to Rokh. To hide how uber is Abaddon. Advice for the future: namecalling when you run out of arguments isn't very sucessful. Quote: Fleet of Rokhs! Big deal. Fleet of Megas with good commander trash this fleet of rokhs. How? They cannot reach it's range. Let's even say both fleets get the jump on each other equally often enough. - Megas jump the rohks. Rohks get killed, but they will also take a good part of the megas with them - Rohks jump the megas. Megas will get killed, with zero losses for the rohks. Because the megas cannot reach them. The advantage still lies on the rohk fleet. Quote: Surgical strike! Big deal. I could do surgical strike with much more powerful Abaddon and few additional modules(rigs). You cannot, because it can be fired back on. They cannot outrange the other BSs. The abas will get popped, the rohs won't. The point of sugical strikes is to be able to do them without the enemy being able to do something agaist them. There is a little difference between having only the t2 fitted rohks in the other fleet being able to fire back and having every t2 fitted bs and t1 & t2 fitted rohk fireing on you. Quote: Resistance bonus! Laughful. It must help Rokh against Rokh! Because against other BS it is useless. Now you are totally loosing it. Such mindless rambling only hurts your position more - if it would be still savageable. A resistance bonus helps against everything. It gives the ship 33% more effective HPs against large rails, lasers, projectiles, drones, missiles, smartbombs, doomsday weapons and rabid hamsters. The reason it is only useful against other rohks is because nothing else can touch them if they are used correctly. Quote: And to be effective Rokh need AT LEAST a) smart fleet commander b) big quantity of Rokhs with t2 large hybrid pilots c) effective intel Otherwise Rokh fleet will be trashed by usual Tempests and Apocs. But even a), b) c) will not guarantee win, because smart commander of closer range fleet will regroup, reintel and reattack from the valid distance giving to Rokh fleet MORE damage, than Rokh fleet initially. And a smart commander of a longrange rohk fleet will not allow them just that. You need a good fleet commander, t2 fitted BS and good intel for ANY effective fleet, arguing that rohks are ok because you need that to make them really effective is pretty pointless. And, as said said Rohks have the advantage here. If they are encountered flatfooted they will prolly loose, but they also WILL inflict damage. And if they catch the other side flatfooted the will win without suffering any damage. YOu are right in one point, though. The only counter vs rohks are not only your own rohks, having a better fleetcommander and intel so you can outmaneuvre them is another counter. But sadly this does not do anything to "balance" it. Because if you want to compare stuff you need to do it under realistic, compareable conditions. A fleet of rohks will loose if you let your corp village idiot command them with stellar tactics like "we warp to them and attack". But if you do not chosoe a good fleetcommander you deserve to die. Also, a fleet of rohks will likely loose if you face a better fleetcommander and better intel. But so will any other fleet, too. However, if your FC actually has a brain and he and your intel are at least as good as that of the enemy the side with more rohks has a definite advantage.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.24 18:49:00 - [22] Edited by: Aramendel on 24/11/2006 18:50:08 Originally by: Zixxa You don't like truth? You pretend to convince me that Abaddon is not uber fleet BS? I like truth. I do not like people who try to discredit peoples point with useless chatter (propaganda, etc) instead facts. Quote: I know few methods to get in range Warp on covert. Turn on MWD and close gap. If Rokh has no MWD(and some stupid person insist here, that MWD is not required for Rokh), than sniper fleet may close gap only with MWD. If Rokh has MWD(as I insist), than Rokh has virtually no tank. (+ about 100 more) You are beginning to make me doubt that you ever were in a fleetbattle. Cov ops: the fastest, cheetah, is with gangboni and 3 local nanos about 600 m/s fast. Time for it to travel the ~70 km to give your fleet a warpin point: 2 minutes. Sorry, battle is over. MWDing BSs: Without any additional speedmods (which they won't have in a fleetbattle) they will have speeds between 1000-1500 m/s. So it will take them 45-70 secs to get into range. During which time they are EVEN BETTER targets for the rohks. Which then can also simply warp to a new sniperspot. Seriously, those 2 options are so utterly, totally DUMB I have no real words for it. Quote: I can. I will focus fire to kill you and you will be dead. And you will focus fire a group of rohks which is sitting at 250k from you killing your support and weaker BS how exactly? Quote: Are you smart enough to understand that resistance bonus in your picture is COMPLETELY USELESS? Rokh vs any BS. Rokh does not need resistance, because any BS cannot hit it. Rokh vs Rokh. Rokh does not need resistance, because we have the same ships. Consequently we have TIE always. Ergo, resistance bonus of Rokh is ABSOLUTELY USELESS in picture you presented. Exept they will NOT shoot on the enemy Rohks as I have said multiple times already. Why waste time by shooting at them when they can use it to really weaken the enemy fleet by instapopping their support and the BSs with a weak tank (scorps, geddons, etc). When the t2 rohks on both sides have grow enough that they can kil leach other in a relatively short time then they will focus first on those, of cource. But even there it helps the rohks. It's a 33% hp increase. This can be the difference between being able to warp out when 10 other rohks focus fire on you or exploding. It does not give them an advantage vs an other group of rohks of cource, but that does not mean it is useless. Quote: No. Range bonus is difficult to get and easy to loose. Ah, I love when a person is arguments and examples to strengthen a statement of theirs. Try it sometimes. Even brutor reactor slaves can say "this is so". Saying WHY it is so is the key, though. Quote: In realistic situation you have lag, imcompetent commanders, stupid pilots and lack of intel. Any damage dealing fleet may survive this, but fleet, with the only weapon - additional range, will die. All these things effect "damage dealing" fleets just as badly as they effect sniper fleets. Lag - no real difference there. Unless you would care to explain why a fleet of lets say megas would be less effected there than a fleet of rohks. Bad FCs - again, same thing. Both fleets have to warp to bookmarks. Where is the difference? Stupid pilots - unless they are the FC or the intel they are usually only causing their own death. Lack of intel - ok, a fleet of rohks jumps thorugh a gate which is bubbled and a fleet of megas sits 150km away. Fleet of rohks kills half the mega fleet & dies. A fleet of megas jumps through a gate, bubbled, fleet of rohks 250km away, mega fleet dies without being able to kill a single rohk because they are out of range. How exactly does it favour the damage fleet there?
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:48:00 - [23] Edited by: Aramendel on 24/11/2006 21:49:42 Ok ok, sorry It's too late for any changes anyway, time will tell.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.26 17:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Nebuli Maybe because you would need about 50 of them to even come close to insta poping a BS? Rohk dps is not great, but it is by all means not that low. To be exact, 1 rohk has 91% of the dps of a (fully skilled) mega. Thats nothing to laugh at.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.26 21:43:00 - [25] Uuups
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Asariasha However, many of you might have experienced how devastating an all of a sudden close ranged attack is when your covert pilot manages to get in position. Yes, but that is only possible by (huge) blind luck (or seeding the area with 20 cov ops pilots, but that are 20 potential BS pilots you have less) or by a dumb enemy (let's sit at this sniperspot for 10 minutes/let's reuse our old spots continuously). It's nothing you can rely on.

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