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Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:23:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
That market sample is extremely biased towards the amount of pilots actually able to fly the ships.
No, it's not. The Rokh will be thebattleship to use in fleets as no other battleships will be able to shoot as far as it. Get ready for the new era of Rokh fleet battles, and anyone flying anything else will be considered "support".
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:19:00 -
[2]
The problem is that the new battleships are being stuck with only two bonuses. Two bonuses means that each bonus has to be absolutly vital and that means that there will not be much creative thought into what they are. So, we end up having the same old bonuses rehashed which leads to these new battleships treading on the turf that most of the other battleships already cover.
Raise the bonuses to three per ship, and get rid of the 10% optimal on the Rokh.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Tribunal
The problem is that the new battleships are being stuck with only two bonuses. Two bonuses means that each bonus has to be absolutly vital and that means that there will not be much creative thought into what they are. So, we end up having the same old bonuses rehashed which leads to these new battleships treading on the turf that most of the other battleships already cover.
Raise the bonuses to three per ship, and get rid of the 10% optimal on the Rokh.
Your first paragraph and your second line doesn't make sense in a common context.
The Rokh is just about the only tier 3 that doesn't tread on other ship's turf. And the only ship that's well executed, imo.
Actually, the Rokh's optimal bonus treads on every single battleship's turf that wants to take part in a fleet battle. Creative bonuses mean balanced bonuses (and allowing one BS the ability to shoot at a range no other battleship can reach is not balanced), so the context of what I wrote makes perfect sense.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:27:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ithildin
Since we've got an artificial 250km limit, it is actually possible for nearly all ships (even Hyperion) to participate in fleet battles. The problem is you need T2 guns and T2 ammo. The Rokh is different in that it can do it really well with T1 guns and T1 ammo.
Tech 2 ammo was decreased to 80% instead of 100% which means that the max range a Mega can fire with 3 tracking computer 2 and 3 tracking enhancers 2 (which is not a reasonable setup in the least)is ~210k while the Rohk can warp into a sniper spot ~211k - 249k and fire away without a single worry.
Balanced? I think not.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 23:56:00 -
[5]
Just be like me and start your training on Caldari BS  . In about 5 months the optimal bonus will be nerfed, but until then have fun with the broken bonus!
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 19:29:00 -
[6]
I see your D2 tag, but have you ever been in a fleet battle? I'm only asking because I am seeing a whole bunch of signs that you are very inexperienced with how fleet combat goes.
Originally by: Asariasha
1) The standart long-range fleet combat will be measured
at opti range of ships without range bonus.
Um? Now why would a fleet consisting of mostly Rokhs start off combat at a range that doesn't take advantage of their optimal bonus?
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2) The Rokh is more powerful when fights begin outside of standart long-range fleet combat while all other ships
will overdamage it when they reach their opti.
And how are they going to reach their optimal again? MWD to the rokhs?  Or perhaps the non-Rokh fleet has a cov-ops that can instantly appear on the Rokh fleet!
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3) Rokh has no tracking bonus/dmg bonus to compensate missed shots.
You don't need a tracking bonus in a long ranged fleet battle. Even if, in a magical land far, far away, tracking was a big issue in long ranged fleet battles I'm sure that you could find a spot for a tracking computer in your 6 mid slots.
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4) Rokh might be used to disable enemies support, but
support has still the option to warp out because of
Rokhs' low alpha strike.
Or they might be used to kill the other fleets battleships, you know, the battleships that can't shoot back because the Rokhs are out of range
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5) Rokh follows the line of Caldari Spaceship Engineering
for railgun ships.
Unbalanced bonuses are now ok if they follow the "line" of ships before it. I will have to remember that.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.25 21:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Asariasha
Revelations release does not mean that there will only
be Rokhs out there as only battleship and even if all
players in EvE wanted to switch to Rokh they would have
to train some skills for a long long time considering
that Amarr/Minmatar players usually do not fit Railguns.
So the Rokhs we will see at first will have to stay with
the rest of the fleet.
There have been threads in IAC boards saying that people need to train up for the Rokh for months now. The hardcore PvPers that take part in fleet battles have it trained for it already, at least the ones that have payed attention.
Let me also point out that it takes MUCH less time to train a Rokh up to shoot outside of everyother ships range, even with those ships using tech 2 ammo. A Rokh does not require tech 2 guns to outrange every other ship.
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Also fleet combat does not mean that you always fight at
long range where tracking isn't a big issue as you noted.
Many engagements are won just because of a good covert
pilot managing to give his fleet a good warp in to the
hostile fleet for close range - has nothing to do with
magic.
The only time fleet combat occurs at mid to short range is when a fleet has to hurry to do something or someone screws up.
Getting a cov-ops onto another fleet is not that easy, because fleets don't sit in one spot for long. If a fleet has to rely on a cov-ops to win a fleet battle then I will bet large sums of isk that, that is a dead fleet.
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should take in consideration that as usual the
Rokh as Caldari ship has got the biggest signature radius.
Last screenshot I saw (500m Rokh) while for example a
Megathron has only 400m or a Tempest with only 340m.
A sig radius does not matter in a fleet fight between battleships. A Pest will pop just as fast as a Rohk.
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And about unbalanced bonus - no one cared about theother Caldari ships which had these boni all the time.
Do the other ships optimal bonus put their range outside of every other ship's range in the game? The answer is no, so no one had a big problem with them.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.29 15:57:00 -
[8]
I personally don't care anymore.
My Rokh will be in my hanger by the end of the week fitted with tech 2 425s for fleet combat. I just feel sorry for the other people who wasted their time training something besides hybrids to tech 2.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
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