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Jacynth VeRouche
JZ INC.
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
   |
Posted - 2011.12.04 03:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am thinking of branching into manufacturing and I have been trying to make a spreadsheet to determine the profitability of various items. I've been using formulas verbatim off the internet and comparing the results to EVEMon's numbers and I always end up off. I am honestly unsure just how EVEMon arrives at the numbers it does. For instance, Production Efficiency shaves 4% off the materials needed per level trained in the skill. I have been looking at making scourge heavy missiles. 120% of the base price of 812 tritanium for scourge heavies in EVEMon is 996, but in actuality this number is 122.66% of 812!
I tried using Grismar's formula:
mineral cost = base cost * (1 + 0.1 / (ME + 1)) * (1.25 - 0.05 * ProdEff)
Using a base price of 812 tritanium this gives me an absurd 1,218 tritanium instead of the true 996 tritanium with ME and PE of zero.
Even when forgetting about Production Efficiency and focusing only on ME I still get it wrong. I tried using this formula:
mineral cost = (base cost * 0.9) + (base cost * (0.1 / (ME + 1)))
Using a base price of 812 tritanium and a ME level of 1 this equation results in a tritanium cost of roughly 771 (which is 95% of 812, the number it should be with only 5% waste given from a ME level of 1) when according to EVEMon's math wizardry the tritanium cost with those parameters should be 775 (95.44%)!
Would anybody be so kind as to point out what I'm doing wrong, and optionally post whatever formula you use yourself (which preferably utilizes a Production Efficiency variable)? |
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 03:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
The base cost for scourge heavies is actually 738. The (perfect if not 5 ProdEff) price you see on the blueprints includes the 10% base waste. So instead using 738 as base price gives us (with Grismar's formula):
738 * (1+0.1 / (0+1)) * (1.25-0.05 * 5) = 811.8
with 0 ME. |
Jacynth VeRouche
JZ INC.
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 03:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bluestream3 wrote:The base cost for scourge heavies is actually 738. The (perfect if not 5 ProdEff) price you see on the blueprints includes the 10% base waste. So instead using 738 as base price gives us (with Grismar's formula):
738 * (1+0.1 / (0+1)) * (1.25-0.05 * 5) = 811.8
with 0 ME.
This has me one step closer!
The last thing is my PE is actually zero right now (don't worry, I'm going to train it up to at least 4 before I actually manufacture anything). The formula works with a PE level of 5 (since at the very end you are just multiplying everything by 1), but when you plug in a zero instead, the result is about 1,015 tritanium instead of the true 996 tritanium.
How do I need to modify the PE section of the equation (1.25 - 0.05 * PE)?
EDIT: Disregard this post. Modified it to (base price * (1+0.1 / (ME+1))) + (base price * (0.25 - (0.05 * PE))). It works now. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
437
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 03:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jacynth VeRouche wrote:
Would anybody be so kind as to point out what I'm doing wrong, and optionally post whatever formula you use yourself (which preferably utilizes a Production Efficiency variable)?
I'm lazy and just research ammo to ME 30/40/50 and call it good enough. Or I look it up in the BPO calculator.
http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo |
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 04:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jacynth VeRouche wrote:Bluestream3 wrote:The base cost for scourge heavies is actually 738. The (perfect if not 5 ProdEff) price you see on the blueprints includes the 10% base waste. So instead using 738 as base price gives us (with Grismar's formula):
738 * (1+0.1 / (0+1)) * (1.25-0.05 * 5) = 811.8
with 0 ME. This has me one step closer! The last thing is my PE is actually zero right now (don't worry, I'm going to train it up to at least 4 before I actually manufacture anything). The formula works with a PE level of 5 (since at the very end you are just multiplying everything by 1), but when you plug in a zero instead, the result is about 1,015 tritanium instead of the true 996 tritanium. How do I need to modify the PE section of the equation (1.25 - 0.05 * PE)? EDIT: Disregard this post. Modified it to (base price * (1+0.1 / (ME+1))) + (base price * (0.25 - (0.05 * PE))). It works now.
Ah good find. Guess that means production efficiency only modifies the base cost, didn't know. I guess I never bothered to check, although I am quite new to manufacturing myself so it doesn't surprise me! |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
163
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 04:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Base Waste = Waste shown on a M.E. 0 BPO
Base Material = Material Amount on a M.E. 0 BPO / (1 + Base Waste)
Total Material = Base Material * (1.25 + Base Waste / (1 + M.E. Level) - Production Efficiency Skill * 0.05)
Total Time = Base time * (1 + 25% / (1 + P.E. Level)) * (1 - Industry Skill Level * 0.05)
Material is rounded up. Time is not rounded.
Perfect M.E. = FLOOR(2 * Base Waste * Largest Material Amount Subject to Waste / (1 + Base Waste))
Perfect M.E for 5% BPO = FLOOR(Largest Material Amount Subject to Waste / 10.5)
Perfect M.E for 10% BPO = FLOOR(Largest Material Amount Subject to Waste / 5.5)
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Jacynth VeRouche
JZ INC.
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 23:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Base Time = ROUND(Manufacturing Time on a P.E. 0 BPO / (1 + 0.25))
Total Time = Base Time * (1 + 0.25 / (1 + P.E. Level)) * (1 - Industry Skill Level * 0.04)
Now that my material conundrum is solved I have been working on the manufacturing time part of the process to get a rough indication of ISK in assets created per hour spent manufacturing various items. Using the base manufacturing time of 300 seconds for scourge heavies, an Industry skill at level 3, PE of zero, and the above formulas, I arrive at a manufacturing time of 264 seconds when EVEMon tells me that with an Industry skill at level 3 and a PE of zero the result should be 240 seconds.
I'm assuming the formula is right and the base of 300 seconds I'm using is wrong. Curiously with an Industry skill of level 3 my manufacturing time should be reduced by 12%. Looking at scourge heavies in EVEMon tells me that my true manufacturing time is 4 minutes when the base time is 5 minutes. 4 is 80% of 5, not 88%, so again, I'm assuming my base is wrong.
If 300 seconds is not the base I should be using, how should I be modifying my base? |
Jacynth VeRouche
JZ INC.
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 23:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bumping not to solicit more replies but because I found the solution.
I noticed when comparing my two characters that one of them (who has a higher industry skill than this one) has the same manufacturing time for scourge heavy missiles than this character does. Based upon this I concluded that the base blueprint manufacturing time, after factoring a character's Industry skill level, is rounded down to the nearest minute. This got me closer to my solution, but I wasn't able to make the math work with the above formula.
After trawling around Google I ran into this equation:
Production time = base production time * (1 - (productivity modifier / base production time) * (PE / (1 + PE)) * production time modifier
*Production time modifier = (1 - (0.04 * Industry))
After taking into account the fact that the base time plus Industry is rounded down to the nearest minute, my final (working) equation is this (this is an Excel formula):
Production time = ROUND((FLOOR(base time * (1 - (0.04 * Industry)),60)) * (1 - ((productivity modifier / base production time) * (PE / (PE + 1)))),1)
There may be an extra set of parenthesis in there or two. Optionally divide everything by 60 if you want the answer in minutes and 3,600 if you want the answer in hours.
Hopefully this can help somebody else! |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
170
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 00:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jacynth VeRouche wrote:[quote=Tau Cabalander]If 300 seconds is not the base I should be using, how should I be modifying my base?
Base time for nearly all ammo is 4 minutes = 240 seconds.
With 25% waste at P.E. 0: 240 * 1.25 = 300 = 5 minutes
Base Manufacturing Time = ROUND( Time Shown On P.E. 0 BPO / (1 + 25%) ) |
Desmont McCallock
52
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 06:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Have a look at EVEDev wiki equations. |
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