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Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.26 13:36:00 -
[1]
I've been looking a bit into Contracts system, and I'm wondering what it will posibly do to the selling style of corporations like N.A.G.A. We use the escrow system to do all our trades, and our shopkeepers can have hundreds of escrows active at one time if there is some traffic. The system works like so: - Customer makes an order trough our web page - We find the item and escrows them directly to that person.
This makes it so we don't have to be online all the time and orders can be put during downtime or when you're not on eve, not somethng we will want to change.
However in contracts details I seem to remember reading something like a "contract limit" and that you will need skills to set contracts. Will there be a system to make our style of selling wares doable without having to train or skill-less alts or make dozens of new alts to try and keep up with demand?
Well that's all I think =|
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Deadeye Dave
Amarr Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.26 14:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Deadeye Dave on 26/10/2006 14:08:24 If I remember correctly you can have as many private contracts as you want the only limit is to public contracts. You can increase this limit by training the contracting skill aparently, though I havent seen it on SiSi yet. I was testing contracts the other day and there are some very handy features like being able to select which regions contracts you want to look at there is also a search feature and the ability to block contracts from certain players. Also with auctions there is a message system which informs you when someone out bids you.
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Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.26 14:19:00 -
[3]
ah, as long as you can have unlimited private contracts without depending on a skill it seems like our way will be rather unchanged then, thank you =)
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.10.26 14:38:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Tachy on 26/10/2006 14:39:11 Contracts are limited by skills, both the personal and corp ones.
DevBlog 18. August 2006
I can't find that C.R.O.T.C.H. blog any longer ...
Maybe you can circumvent the limit with the buyer opening a contract vs. one of your sales persons. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Valeo Galaem
InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.26 14:39:00 -
[5]
There are also corporate contracts, and I know the limit (if there is one, however its set up to be) is supposed to be higher than the limit on personal contracts. And even then, private corporate contracts should still be unlimited. Big sellers will actually have it easier by having a web page advertising their products, rather than having to use public contracts for visibility and having a limit imposed.
Thar be Pirates
You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe Your Wallet has been emptied!
CONCORD Encryption |
Aquila Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.26 14:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Aquila Lightwielder on 26/10/2006 14:52:30 Yea as long as we have unlimited personal contracts (corp to person or person to person, either would work I guess) I'm happy. If a dev or something is reading this is it posible to get a response if we can keep doing our buisness like we do now or if we have to rethink stuff? :)
edit: ops wasn't this char I was supposed to post with
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:10:00 -
[7]
OK, looks like bad news for you.
I'm in the "create contracts" window as I type.
For contracts available to the public, I'm allowed only one contract on my own behalf, and ten contracts on behalf of my corp. (Presumbably there will be skills that improve this, but they'd need to be multi-tiered -- like retail/wholesale/tycoon -- to really provide the functionality you want.)
It looks like "private" contracts available to individuals are limited to the same pool of 1/10.
Contracts limited to your corp members are "limited" to 500. But that won't solve your business problem.
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Deadeye Dave
Amarr DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Marlenus OK, looks like bad news for you.
I'm in the "create contracts" window as I type.
For contracts available to the public, I'm allowed only one contract on my own behalf, and ten contracts on behalf of my corp. (Presumbably there will be skills that improve this, but they'd need to be multi-tiered -- like retail/wholesale/tycoon -- to really provide the functionality you want.)
It looks like "private" contracts available to individuals are limited to the same pool of 1/10.
Contracts limited to your corp members are "limited" to 500. But that won't solve your business problem.
I'm sorry Amarria Lightwiedler for mis-guiding you was playing with contracts the other day and created several personal ones and only one public contract so I was under the impression personal contracts were unlimited.
Does anyone happen to know what skills we can train for contracts? I know there is a skill called 'contracting' but I have not seen it seeded yet on SiSi.
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Debes Sparre
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Posted - 2006.10.27 00:52:00 -
[9]
The number of outstanding personal contracts is limited. So as long as your customers are speedy in accepting them (this does not finish the contract) you are fine. I remember this being mentioned in the dev blog...but I havn't been on sisi so I can't be totally absolutly positive about it.
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Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Marlenus OK, looks like bad news for you.
I'm in the "create contracts" window as I type.
For contracts available to the public, I'm allowed only one contract on my own behalf, and ten contracts on behalf of my corp. (Presumbably there will be skills that improve this, but they'd need to be multi-tiered -- like retail/wholesale/tycoon -- to really provide the functionality you want.)
It looks like "private" contracts available to individuals are limited to the same pool of 1/10.
Contracts limited to your corp members are "limited" to 500. But that won't solve your business problem.
Hm are you sure those corp contracts are limited to members within your corp and not contracts on behalf of your corp?
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
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Vyger
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:09:00 -
[11]
My interpretation of the Contract limits are this:
Individuals may place up to 15 contracts for themselves when they have the Contracting skill at Level 5.
Individuals may place up to 60 contracts for their corp when they have the Corporation Contracting skill at Level 5. These contracts count towards the corporations total contract limit of 500.
Individuals may place up to 500 contracts for their corpmates regardlesss of their skill levels, but these still count towards the corporations total contract limit of 500.
The corporation cannot have more than 500 contracts active regardless of which corp members issued them.
...I could of course have mis-interpreted though |
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder Hm are you sure those corp contracts are limited to members within your corp and not contracts on behalf of your corp?
Yes. I may be wrong, but I'm sure.
Reason I'm sure is the way the interface presents itself. You have to click little radio buttons to specify who the contracts are available to. When you change that setting, the display of how many contracts you can make changes dynamically.
When you have selected the button that lets you specify a person's name, the 1/10 amount is displayed. You don't see the 1/500 until you click the button specifying that anyone in your corp can pick up the contract. At which point, there's no longer a name box, like you'd need for delivering items to a non-corporate buyer.
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Naal Morno
ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.27 17:32:00 -
[13]
CCP wnats their market fees _________________________________________
The cloaky orchestrator |
Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:09:00 -
[14]
hrm :( right now I got around 40-50 active escrows (all personal), will be a pain if I have to train skills and can only set a few.
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Maverick McDougel
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.28 10:02:00 -
[15]
the problem is even if you can train skills they will not be seaded till kali hits, so naga will be locked down like a triple webbed vagabond for the first week of kali. and if they are more than a rank 2 skill you will make them cry. support BattleClinic buy gtc's from BattleClinic |
Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.29 01:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Maverick McDougel the problem is even if you can train skills they will not be seaded till kali hits, so naga will be locked down like a triple webbed vagabond for the first week of kali. and if they are more than a rank 2 skill you will make them cry.
who wants to see me cry? :p
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.27 20:42:00 -
[17]
I'm gonna bump this one again.
As I see it now, with the skills in kali even though our shopkeepers train the skill contracting to lvl 5 we can stil only place 15 personal contracts. And I ask again, why place a limit on personal contracts? They don't show when you search for contracts for anyone else but the one who sets the contract and the one the contract is for, so no cluttering. Someone has come to depend on this sort of escrowing and now soon contracting, and 15 isn't enough. At most I can have almost 200-300 personal escrows up at one time, so if we could set escrows on behalf of our corporation to other people that would also work (like set by naga corp for John Doe in some other corp). Any dev response on this, are you trying to kill this way of doing buisness intentionally or is it a byproduct you've overlooked?
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.27 21:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder I'm gonna bump this one again.
As I see it now, with the skills in kali even though our shopkeepers train the skill contracting to lvl 5 we can stil only place 15 personal contracts. And I ask again, why place a limit on personal contracts? They don't show when you search for contracts for anyone else but the one who sets the contract and the one the contract is for, so no cluttering. Someone has come to depend on this sort of escrowing and now soon contracting, and 15 isn't enough. At most I can have almost 200-300 personal escrows up at one time, so if we could set escrows on behalf of our corporation to other people that would also work (like set by naga corp for John Doe in some other corp). Any dev response on this, are you trying to kill this way of doing buisness intentionally or is it a byproduct you've overlooked?
Umm.
I was under the impression that private contracts don't count towards the limit.
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Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.27 21:15:00 -
[19]
Nope. I'm wrong.
This makes me very sad.
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Blind Man
Caldari Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.11.27 21:18:00 -
[20]
once again yay for new features nerfing old ones :/ Sig removed.\o/ It's great flying Amarr, ain't it? |
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Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.27 21:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Victor Valka Nope. I'm wrong.
This makes me very sad.
that makes two of us =/
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.27 21:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder
Originally by: Victor Valka Nope. I'm wrong.
This makes me very sad.
that makes two of us =/
Guess that means I'll have to chat you up from now on if I want some hot T2 lovin'.
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Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:19:00 -
[23]
until we can make a solution for this uncalled for nerf I guess we can mostly do trade trough a chat channel yes
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder until we can make a solution for this uncalled for nerf I guess we can mostly do trade trough a chat channel yes
I feel your pain in this as you don't deserve the nerfing that is about to happen however let's be honest... this was way called for and long overdue.
The escrow system was an adhoc spur of the moment patch to address how everyone was using courier missions (Just break it open to claim) to do personal trading. And for almost three years this patchwork solution served for 2 years and 9 months more than it should have.
Now there is a real system being put in place and, well, like it or not some good people are going to get some bad news. Seems like that's happening all over the place. The good news is that some bad people are getting alot of bad news.
Sometimes it's like that... to stop abuse, legitimatacy suffers.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:22:00 -
[25]
I don't see how raising personal contracts to like 500 would help people abuse the system
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:29:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 27/11/2006 23:30:17 Edited by: Shar Tegral on 27/11/2006 23:29:42
Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder I don't see how raising personal contracts to like 500 would help people fromabusing the system
Limiting them to that keeps people from abusing the system. You've been involved in this contract dicussion since the stickied thread was stickied and unstickied. The points have been clarified, expounded upon, and argued over.
The truth is the escrow system, as it exists on TQ as of this moment, needs to die. It needed to die a long time ago.
The replacement system is much better and will stop people from abusing it. In the process legitimate users, like NAGA, suffer. That is what I said and I've said it again.
And, as of yet, it is unclear whether or not you will be effected.
IMHO if this was such a major concern of yours sisi has been readily available for you to test on just as it has been for me. Your level of testing demonstrates the level of concern you have for your own affairs.
Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Roidator
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Posted - 2006.11.29 08:48:00 -
[27]
I'd like to say; 15 public contracts is hardly effective. (max with contracting lv5) 100k isk fee for public contracts is too high.
Old escrow had issues, but it wasn't anything terribly bad. By raising a 100k isk fee it knocks out lower sell orders for small transactions like small ammo bpc sets.
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