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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 04/11/2003 22:41:18
For those of you who had been in Beta from phase 4 and later can remember ECM and Sensor Dampening device started out as HI Slot devices. That was the correct place for them since they are technically a type of weapon and jamming another ship SHOULD use alot of power.
CCP went and changed this when NO ONE in Beta had any real complaints about it being in HI Slots. If you look at modern Electronic Warfare ships they DONT have same weapons load out as a fighter/bomber on top of the EW capability.
Right now a person in a Scorp can jam ANY ship AND have all 6 hi slots loaded with weapons. Thats just not right and is a major balance issue that was caused by the change of slot positions.
I know its late in the game for changes BUT there is no SIMPLE way to nerf ECM devices without changing MANY other devices as well (eccm and sensor boosters).
CCP put the ECM devices BACK INTO HI SLOTS as they worked very well in beta in that slot and helped balance out the game play.
I know many of you in Scorp will say "but thats why we got all the med slots". Yes for many other devices but since a jammer or sensor dampener can render another ship unable to lock on you YOU DON'T, and shouldn't need alot of weapons.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:26:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jarjar on 04/11/2003 22:27:13
The scorpion is only 6/8/4. Other battleships have 8 highslots and 7-8 lowslots too, with less medium slots.
I say leave them alone, this would make sure that every ship is unbalanced. 
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:26:00 -
[3]
i like it all the way it is tbh
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Crimsonjade
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:27:00 -
[4]
FYI scorps do not have 8 hi slots. they are limited to 6.
No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown.
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:29:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 04/11/2003 22:36:19
Actually no since those med slots can be used on a scorp more effectivaly to make the scorp a "shield tank" ship with multiple shield boosters and resistance modules.
Caldari ships excel at using "gadgets" especially shield devices, and there is alot of devices they can use more effectively.
Jammers are WEAPONS (hence the term Electronic Warfare) and need to be treated as such.
They DO need to have a range , optimal and acc fall off, for ECM devices as well. That or use more power the longer the distance you need to lock onto to something.
Jamming devices in real life DO NOT have unlimited jamming distance, they are VERY range sensative.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Master Scy
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:34:00 -
[6]
If the ECM stuff was put back into high slots, a lot of low-med-high slot redistribution would have to be done, which would take a lot of time to balance out properly, with a lot of complaining for months about this ship being the best all-around ship or that ship becoming completely useless... |
Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:36:00 -
[7]
leave scopions alobe they are just over grown black birds...
 Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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patch
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:38:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Right now a person in a Scorp can jam ANY ship AND have all 8 hi slots loaded with weapons
Errr, try 6 hi slots.
Also this is a ridiculous idea, your telling me amarrian ships would be "good" at EW when they are opposed to it because they believe its not the way to fight or sumit like that.
Its fine the way it is, ECM modules need a lil tweaking (cap usage and activation time) but should remain med slots. CCP got this part right 
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:39:00 -
[9]
/start sarcasm
Actually, go for it!
I've love to have six shield hardeners, two shield boosters, AND four multispectral ECM's on my Scorpion :)
Sounds great to me :)
/end sarcasm
Stupid suggestion. Let's just turn the Armageddon into everyone's favourite EW ship, eh?
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:40:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 04/11/2003 22:47:21
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 04/11/2003 22:43:05
Ahh I never said nerf the Scorps did I???
Caldari ships were suppose to excel in gadgets and SHIELDS while Amarr excel at ARMOR.
The whole original point in Beta when game was started out was that Caldari ships should be able to have shields setup as strong as Amarr can set up armor. Why do you think all the shield resistance devices are med slot, event he ones that dont need to be activated, instead of low slot items while armor resistance are all low slot?????
They didnt give BB's and Scorps a bunch of med slots to make them "uber jammer" since when they were originally introduced into beta all ECM devices were HI SLot devices.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:42:00 -
[11]
oops typo on the 8 hi slot there sorry :(
still 6 slots and uber jammer not right either.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:45:00 -
[12]
/start sarcasm
hmm if all 8 Hi slots has jammer wonder what it will shoot with?? Maybe those 6 hvy drones will do it , yea thats it 6 hvy drones can kill anything.
/end sarcasm
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:48:00 -
[13]
"hmm if all 8 Hi slots has jammer wonder what it will shoot with?? Maybe those 6 hvy drones will do it , yea thats it 6 hvy drones can kill anything."
... 6 high slots if we're still talking about Scorpion. And well, you only need 4 slots for effective jamming in most cases. Put tachyons or whatever on the other two and fry the enemy at slow pace as they are scrambled, jammed and unable to do anything...
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:53:00 -
[14]
and BTW Raven, Megathron AND Tempest ALL have 8 slots as well, so what is the point with just the Apoc??
All lvl 1 BS only have 6 slots as well so what is the point there?
Remeber HI SLots CAN NOT BE SHARED and even though 3 Tach Beams do good of damage (since you would need 4 to 5 multispectral jammers to jame BS's) They would not be a real threat against BS's that are moded right anyways.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Doc Evil
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:54:00 -
[15]
Quote:
... 6 high slots if we're still talking about Scorpion. And well, you only need 4 slots for effective jamming in most cases. Put tachyons or whatever on the other two and fry the enemy at slow pace as they are scrambled, jammed and unable to do anything...
But at least the person getting killed would have time either to escape or hang in till backup arrives.
As it stands now, you get jammed then killed by the tachs and missles before you can implement an effective escape plan.
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:55:00 -
[16]
Josephine .... was making a sarcastic response to Darkwolf's sarcastic post :)
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 04/11/2003 23:07:54
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 04/11/2003 23:06:23
BTW FOF cruise missiles and Drones would NOT be effected by jamming. If you got launchers on your ships, especially Caldari AND Minmatar, you can dish out almost as much damage per missile as the Tach beams could per shot :) (lvl 4 cruise missile skill that is)
Again a balanced situation since one em hardener and one therm hardener along with a large shield booster would be enough against 3 tach beams (that is if you firing FOF cruise missiles AND using drones).
Another bonus with FOF cruise missiles is that their explosive radius is half the orbit radius of drones and they dont explode till the 40 m from the target :)
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:01:00 -
[18]
"Josephine .... was making a sarcastic response to Darkwolf's sarcastic post :)"
Aye, i know; and? =)
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Singular
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:14:00 -
[19]
They wont do it. It would over-simplify things, in terms of which frig/cruiser/BS is the most versatile.
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:18:00 -
[20]
we should go back to beta 4 ...
and do a beta 5 bis to rebalance the game 
you aren't serious i hope :p
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Artur Hawkwing
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:24:00 -
[21]
Something tells me old Novo here, just got killed by someone in a Scorpion and doesn't like it coz he cant use one lol 
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:26:00 -
[22]
where did I say that???
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:27:00 -
[23]
Actually I almost killed the Scorp who thought he was so uber good with jammers :)
But that not the point and you know it
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Aethelgrin
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Posted - 2003.11.05 00:04:00 -
[24]
I happen to agree with Novo. Allowing fully-kitted EW ships to still drop whatever else they want into their mid-slot would make for more versatile fleets, I think.
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Lhyda Souljacker
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Posted - 2003.11.05 00:49:00 -
[25]
Two words:
Dedacated Hardpoints
Guns go on turret hardpoints.
Launchers on missile hardpoints.
Sheilds in sheild slots.
Armor in armor slots.
This would allow fine tuning of ship balance while letting us still pick our loadouts.
... That's when I reach for my revolver ... |
Stepping Razor
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Posted - 2003.11.05 00:56:00 -
[26]
LOL. Yes please, lets have a radical, mindblowing massive change to the balance of all ships! That's what we need, another how many months of sorting and resorting balance, assigning and re-assigning highslots, powergrid, etc.
  
Razor
Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon
CCP is the best at at least three things:
1. Really, really fun gameplay
2. Good forum presence
3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly |
Lottsa Pox
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Posted - 2003.11.05 01:12:00 -
[27]
novo only wants this to change because he hasnt been able to win a single battle 1 on 1 with biomass members. He begs and pleads for them and wonder why is shields are torn apart with a MWD equiped. It also seems to boggle his mind that some people do like to use ECM. Omg such a naughty word but according to NOVO its totally unfair when used against him and his megatron.
Enjoy the game, I know I am
Lottsa Pox
Pox to ya pod
BioMass Cartel
Podding a system near you |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.11.05 01:18:00 -
[28]
I wonder when I will be able to fly a black Raven...
Or why not, a pink Megathron would be nice too
_______________________________________________
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agrizla
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Posted - 2003.11.05 01:31:00 -
[29]
Edited by: agrizla on 05/11/2003 01:32:24
Quote:
Jamming devices in real life DO NOT have unlimited jamming distance, they are VERY range sensative.
Having designed a few in my time you are totally wrong. Jammers are brute-force devices. Yes they attempt to mimic radar/laser returns but they (in general*) both attempt to match the phase and also overload the receiver. That is the classic approach.
*There are other methods but they are classified.
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.05 02:10:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 05/11/2003 02:20:40
First to Lotta:
Man the lies never stop with you do they!
This post has nothing to do with Scorps at all plus you FORGOT it seems to put in the fact its YOU guys that ask for one on one and then show up with 3 (THREE) Scorps (Has tek gotten his new ship after last night when you guys thought you could trick me?) .... you better get checked for memory probs you starting to forget things. Only person in Biomass ever to keep his word is Killza, the rest of you lie so much you must do it alot in real life as well.
(more than happy to bring up local logs and the screen shots all time stamped)
To Agrizla:
Yes but there is NO jamming device with unlimited range of effect, there is a certain limited radius of effect from the point of origin. If that was the case then the military would only need to fly one EW airship and they could jam everything in the whole country. I don't remember seeing that in Iraq during the fighting.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Lottsa Pox
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Posted - 2003.11.05 02:37:00 -
[31]
lol tek didnt lose his battleship keep up the spin. And keep whining about ecm and the case of you not liking it.
Enjoy the game, I know I am
Lottsa Pox
Pox to ya pod
BioMass Cartel
Podding a system near you |
Sally
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Posted - 2003.11.05 05:18:00 -
[32]
No.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.11.05 11:22:00 -
[33]
Lotta:
I never said tek lost a BS .... he lost a BB but he was the one to ask for a 1 on 1 because 3 of your corpmate were in the next system pretending to have logged off for the evening.
Only spinning that is being done is you spinning your web of lies ...careful don't get caught in it.
By the way are you a lawyer or studying to be one cause you lie just as well as they do.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Lycanth
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:14:00 -
[34]
honestly i dont know why every1 is so obsessed with the scorp...if i get a tempest then put a sensor booster on it and have decent long range targeting i can lower my lock time to alot lower than any scorp can then all you need is 3 sensor dampeners and that will reduce his range to 10 kms or less after that just keep him at range and he is screwed honestly it is very easy to kill a scorpion if u have a little know how oh and that loadout leaves 1 med slot free for a jammer (or have some corpm8 in any old peice of crap to jamm/web him and u wont even need a shield booster.
dont even bother turning your mods on-it wont help. |
toaster
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:43:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 04/11/2003 22:36:19
They DO need to have a range , optimal and acc fall off, for ECM devices as well. That or use more power the longer the distance you need to lock onto to something.
Jamming devices in real life DO NOT have unlimited jamming distance, they are VERY range sensative.
totally agreed.
------------------------------------------------
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Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:46:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Xander Teg on 05/11/2003 12:48:48
Quote:
LOL. Yes please, lets have a radical, mindblowing massive change to the balance of all ships! That's what we need, another how many months of sorting and resorting balance, assigning and re-assigning highslots, powergrid, etc.
Perfectly stated.
A change of this magnitude now is only asking for heaps of unforseen balance problems that will take several patches to sort out. It is impossible to predict the exact effect any such change would have on the current game mechanics. If this happened it would be a disastor, count on it.
_________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:06:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 04/11/2003 22:36:19
They DO need to have a range , optimal and acc fall off, for ECM devices as well. That or use more power the longer the distance you need to lock onto to something.
Jamming devices in real life DO NOT have unlimited jamming distance, they are VERY range sensative.
Who gives a **** what they have in RL?
This is a space-mog... last i looked in RL we dont have Scorpion Battleship-Class space ships... want us to rectify that and remove or redefine them entirely too?
FTLOG if every time this guy gets killed we are going to have to go through another "redesign everybody elese ship so i can win" thread we might as well all give up now.
totally agreed.
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Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:10:00 -
[38]
Im going to start a petition to saves Souls Scorp :) |
Drethen Nerevitas
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Posted - 2003.11.05 13:19:00 -
[39]
WEWT.
U R SO 1337 d00d!!1
I wannabe like U Novo!!1!
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