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Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:05:00 - [31] The Drake looks good. IMO, the Cerberus does not. The Drake and Rokh are enough to pull me back to my Caldari roots.... in time. But Myrmidon and Hyperion for now, thanks, along with my very very yummy Megathron. But I can see why Cerb users would be worried. At that cost of a ship, so would I... Izo Azlion. ---
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:23:00 - [32] With the new heavy assault the drake will have a range of 13 km. The cerb of 30 km. It's pretty much the same for all HACs vs tier 2 BCs, excluding the drone ones. The HAC have more speed & betetr range, but less dps (with the same weapons), the BCs have slower speed & less range, but more dps.
Jazz Bo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:46:00 - [33] Edited by: Jazz Bo on 27/10/2006 10:50:24 Originally by: Izo Azlion But I can see why Cerb users would be worried. At that cost of a ship, so would I... Cerb fans will love it. Demand goes down, price goes down. Why did Sacriledges and Muninns cost less than 100m and Cerbs almost 300m a while ago? It's not "magic", I can tell you that. Shame I can't fly them really. Can only hope the Myrmi drops the Ishtar's price even a little, and that the Stab nerf will reduce the demand for Vagas Quote: Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew... squishhh
Al Haquis Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:52:00 - [34] This is a good thing. I finished caldari cruiser lvl5 , 3 months back and have yet sat in a cerebus becouse of the huge cost of the ship. So after 1-2 months i might actually own one , vei vei vei for me. With love from Al Haquis
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Jazz Bo Edited by: Jazz Bo on 27/10/2006 10:50:24 Originally by: Izo Azlion But I can see why Cerb users would be worried. At that cost of a ship, so would I... Cerb fans will love it. Demand goes down, price goes down. Why did Sacriledges and Muninns cost less than 100m and Cerbs almost 300m a while ago? It's not "magic", I can tell you that. Shame I can't fly them really. Can only hope the Myrmi drops the Ishtar's price even a little, and that the Stab nerf will reduce the demand for Vagas Wont happen, just take a loot @ this: Originally by: madaluap A BC that will cost 40 mil and cant even field 1 wave of heavy drones is pathetic. I spend a mere 15 mil extra and get a bs that can field 3X heavy drones + far more nossing/tank power. This ship is screaming shoot my drones, shoot them please. What really saddens me is the fast that a mere vexor (4.8 mil vessel) can do the same dps as a ship that should be its bigger brother. If you want more tank for a small price go dominix and if you want same dps and spend 85% less, take a vexor... It all bowls down to 1 thing: Is it worth to you to have nearly the same dps as a 4.8 mil ship and have a 25m3 more dronebay for 36.2 mil extra? I dont think so. Originally by: Alex Harumichi Vexor: 75m3 Myrmidon: 100m3 Ishtar: 375m3 (with HAC V) Dominix: 375m3 Isthar wont drop a single bit Its great being gallente , aint it? _________________________________________________
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:10:00 - [36] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/10/2006 11:10:08 Cerberus price will not go down too much. Cerberus has 4 bonuses and Drake has 2 bonuses. Drake is a fun ship and Cerberus is a tactical ship. Tactical ship because you will fly it for specific purpose. It is a Heavy Assault Ship. Drake on the other hand is a gang support or fun ship. It adds a lot of DPS in frigate and cruiser gangs and easier to throw away than a Cerberus. --------- It's great being a Caldari, ain't it? Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:16:00 - [37] Cerberus price must go down. The role and agility and good damage(lowest among HACs) do not compensate 250+kk price. Just TOO high. Particularly with upcoming WCS nerfed you cannot evem add protection to your investments. Under any conditions Cerberus serious price is no more than 150kk.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:18:00 - [38] Originally by: Zixxa ...good damage(lowest among HACs)... 460 kinetic dps with t2 rage heavy assault @ 30 km. Lowest damage..not really.
Estelle Matsuko Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:32:00 - [39] Edited by: Estelle Matsuko on 27/10/2006 11:35:29 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/10/2006 11:10:08 Cerberus price will not go down too much. Cerberus has 4 bonuses and Drake has 2 bonuses. Drake is a fun ship and Cerberus is a tactical ship. Tactical ship because you will fly it for specific purpose. It is a Heavy Assault Ship. Drake on the other hand is a gang support or fun ship. It adds a lot of DPS in frigate and cruiser gangs and easier to throw away than a Cerberus. Personally I¦d say you¦ve got it wrong. The cerb is the "Fun" ship. Unless you can buy it at just above cost, it¦s far too expensive to mix it up in fleet battles, so it¦s used for hit and run, deep raids, disrupting mining ops, missions where the ability to hit hard and run away are paramount, oh and size locked cosmos gates. In short most of the "fun" stuff. The Drake however will become a workhorse in Fleets and heavier raiding gangs. It is a Shire compared to the Cerbs palomino. The price of cerberus may not go down by much, but I predict sales of cerberus may. Manufacturers should look on the brightside though, even if they halve the sale price of cerbs, it¦s still more than 100% profit per ship. Not a bad mark up. Vote spiky, Vote Drake.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Estelle Matsuko Edited by: Estelle Matsuko on 27/10/2006 11:35:29 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/10/2006 11:10:08 Cerberus price will not go down too much. Cerberus has 4 bonuses and Drake has 2 bonuses. Drake is a fun ship and Cerberus is a tactical ship. Tactical ship because you will fly it for specific purpose. It is a Heavy Assault Ship. Drake on the other hand is a gang support or fun ship. It adds a lot of DPS in frigate and cruiser gangs and easier to throw away than a Cerberus. Personally I¦d say you¦ve got it wrong. The cerb is the "Fun" ship. Unless you can buy it at just above cost, it¦s far too expensive to mix it up in fleet battles, so it¦s used for hit and run, deep raids, disrupting mining ops, missions where the ability to hit hard and run away are paramount, oh and size locked cosmos gates. In short most of the "fun" stuff. The Drake however will become a workhorse in Fleets and heavier raiding gangs. It is a Shire compared to the Cerbs palomino. The price of cerberus may not go down by much, but I predict sales of cerberus may. Manufacturers should look on the brightside though, even if they halve the sale price of cerbs, it¦s still more than 100% profit per ship. Not a bad mark up. Vote spiky, Vote Drake. Not really. Fun is when you have ISKs to lose. Cerberus is a fun and good ship but it comes with a heafty price tag. When PvP is about ISKs, it makes you respect your ships and makes you learn how and when to use them. Cerbs have a role and Drakes also have a role. Cerbs would be used in target specific ops and Drakes in fun raid gangs. EvE is balanced between skill points and ISKs. --------- It's great being a Caldari, ain't it? Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Estelle Matsuko Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:56:00 - [41] Jenny.....do you by any chance have a vested interest in pushing HACs forward? You don¦t produce them do you? Do you? Seriously though, everything is speculation atm. Once Kali and the new ships go live we¦ll see who¦s right and who¦s not so much wrong, as less right.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:58:00 - [42] Originally by: Estelle Matsuko Seriously though, everything is speculation atm. Once Kali and the new ships go live we¦ll see who¦s right and who¦s not so much wrong, as less right. Time will tell and I know I am right. :P --------- It's great being a Caldari, ain't it? Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:02:00 - [43] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 12:06:10 Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 12:04:04 Originally by: BABARR "Now do the same comparison with the Gal tier 2 BC and the Ishtar " Easy : ishtar you have 3x5 heavy drone, Myr got only 1x5 heavy drone = ***, a good target got the time to pop enought drone to have a very bad DPS (Dont forget fight are going to be longer). Ever worse. Ishtar: multiple waves of heavy drones (375m3 drone bay), gun damage bonus Myrmidon: 4 x heavy drone (and no spares, 100m3 bay), no gun damage bonus Sad. Just... sad. Especially since the other 3 tier2 BCs are pretty close to their HAC counterparts in general power. And on the thread actual topic: yeah, only people with cash to burn will buy Cerbs now. The Drake mostly does the same thing, is a lot* cheaper, and is insurable. Cerbs will get relegated (even more) into rich peoples' toys.
Estelle Matsuko Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:06:00 - [44] Edited by: Estelle Matsuko on 27/10/2006 12:07:54 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Estelle Matsuko Seriously though, everything is speculation atm. Once Kali and the new ships go live we¦ll see who¦s right and who¦s not so much wrong, as less right. Time will tell and I know I am right. :P Yes, but less right
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:07:00 - [45] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 12:04:04 Originally by: BABARR "Now do the same comparison with the Gal tier 2 BC and the Ishtar " Easy : ishtar you have 3x5 heavy drone, Myr got only 1x5 heavy drone = ****, a good target got the time to pop enought drone to have a very bad DPS (Dont forget fight are going to be longer). Ever worse. Ishtar: multiple waves of heavy drones (375m3 drone bay), gun damage bonus Myrmidon: 4 x heavy drone (and no spares, 100m3 bay), no gun damage bonus Sad. Just... sad. Especially since the other 3 tier2 BCs are pretty close to their HAC counterparts in general power. QFT ishtar is way better than myrmi .. the gap between the two is biggest iirc of all 4.. - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:19:00 - [46] .
Laughlyn Vaughns Gallente Lagos-Vaughn Industries	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:20:00 - [47] i also did same comparison and u just have to think, cerb will still get plenty more resist, its launcher speeds are very quick but u also have the velocity of the misiles too so longer ranges, the cerb is also a smaller target for battleships weaponry. Drakes missiles are extremely fast but i believe the cerb will get the bonus changed to incorporate the heavy assault missiles as well, the drake wont get the range of cerb due to only a RoF and resist bonus and drake is a battlecruiser and so takes more damage from torp/cruise missiles than the cerb would. the only real major difference is that more peopel will probs use Drake more for pvp as its cheap to replace but as u say still can deal great damage. Gimmie a D Gimmie a R Gimmie a A Gimmie a K Gimmie a E What u get? Instantdeathdealingbeastofmissilespewingdeathness
Best	Posted - 2006.10.27 13:06:00 - [48] one thing for sure. HEHE cerberus prices are coming DOWN
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.27 13:13:00 - [49] Originally by: Best one thing for sure. HEHE cerberus prices are coming DOWN Well, demand will drop at least. Whether that will affect prices is another matter, Eve is a closed market with artificial limits and monopolies. We'll see.
Jazz Bo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.27 14:09:00 - [50] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Zixxa ...good damage(lowest among HACs)... 460 kinetic dps with t2 rage heavy assault @ 30 km. Lowest damage..not really. 1. Cerberus doesn't currently have a flight time bonus for assault missiles (correct me if I'm wrong of course) 2. Bonus only for kinetic damage. Which just happens to be heavily tanked on three of the four races' tech2 ships. Quote: Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew... squishhh
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.10.27 14:15:00 - [51] Originally by: Jazz Bo Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Zixxa ...good damage(lowest among HACs)... 460 kinetic dps with t2 rage heavy assault @ 30 km. Lowest damage..not really. 1. Cerberus doesn't currently have a flight time bonus for assault missiles (correct me if I'm wrong of course) 2. Bonus only for kinetic damage. Which just happens to be heavily tanked on three of the four races' tech2 ships. The flight time thing was mentioned by Tux to be a bug, the Cerb is supposed to get bonuses to heavy assault missiles as well. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 14:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Jazz Bo 2. Bonus only for kinetic damage. Which just happens to be heavily tanked on three of the four races' tech2 ships. 1) see above reply. 2) as is thermal for the ishtars drones. And the other HACs have lower dps and/or far lower ranges for their max dps ammo.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 14:52:00 - [53] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/10/2006 11:10:08 Cerberus price will not go down too much. Cerberus has 4 bonuses and Drake has 2 bonuses. Drake is a fun ship and Cerberus is a tactical ship. Tactical ship because you will fly it for specific purpose. It is a Heavy Assault Ship. Drake on the other hand is a gang support or fun ship. It adds a lot of DPS in frigate and cruiser gangs and easier to throw away than a Cerberus. Jenny lay off the quaffe. Your post reads: Cerb price wont go down [insert a few vague bs invalid reasons - check spelling - good to go] Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Jazz Bo Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.27 15:16:00 - [54] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Jazz Bo 2. Bonus only for kinetic damage. Which just happens to be heavily tanked on three of the four races' tech2 ships. 2) as is thermal for the ishtars drones. And the other HACs have lower dps and/or far lower ranges for their max dps ammo. Ishtar's drone bonus applies to all drones. If it was up to me, Cerb would have a damage bonus for all missile damage types. Maybe not 5%, but anyway. Quote: Pew pew... ka-boom.... pew pew... squishhh
Skaxx Minmatar Zig-Zag	Posted - 2006.10.27 15:22:00 - [55] If the Drake stays as is I believe it will affect Cerb buyers some with the addition to the nighthawk changes as well. In all honesty all the people running level 4's in a cerb can do them in the drake(extra mid, more shields) or nighthawk(bonuses more than make up for lack of 7th launcher pve only). So what will people train to the cerb for? Pve has better options and as far as Missile users what real advantage will the cerb have with the hp increases coming. Even at 100 mill I wouldnt pvp in the cerb. I would rather sit in a beagle, rook or falcon, or command and give my gang bonuses. I think after all is said and done the cerb will need some lovin.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.27 15:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Skaxx I think after all is said and done the cerb will need some lovin. Nah. They will need love when their market price is around the Sacrilege market price. That's a good indicator of a ship in trouble. Until then...
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.27 16:03:00 - [57] Quote: I think after all is said and done the cerb will need some lovin. cant really buff the cerberus to be better then the drake on all accounts, cerberus should be outclassed by a Battlecruiser.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 17:00:00 - [58] Edited by: Aramendel on 27/10/2006 17:02:11 Originally by: Jazz Bo Ishtar's drone bonus applies to all drones. If it was up to me, Cerb would have a damage bonus for all missile damage types. Maybe not 5%, but anyway. But not all drones do the same dps. Kinetic drones do 90% of the dps of thermic ones. Explosive drones do 83% of the dps of thermic ones. EM drones deal 72% of the dps of thermic ones. It's in the end just the same effect as you got on the cerb with the kinetic-only missile bonus. You either use your racial damage and deal max dps (100%) or deal non-racial damage and do reduced dps (80%). Originally by: Skaxx I think after all is said and done the cerb will need some lovin. Exept you do not balance the HACs vs the same races BCs but vs the other races HACs. And vs these the cerb does very well, especially with the new heavy assault missiles.
Skaxx Minmatar Zig-Zag	Posted - 2006.10.27 17:07:00 - [59] Last comment was a joke but wasn't taken into right context I guess. The whole thread is comparing a bc to a cruiser. Sorry about the confusion.
Ciphero KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.10.27 17:15:00 - [60] Originally by: Sinnbad Mayhem Simply, the Cerebus has been replaced by the Drake Prediction: Cerebus: 150M Drake: 350M I witnessed a Drake *****a Hyperion on Sisi today My uncle Oveur has already promised me the BPO. Taking orders in Jita (joke) Seeing as the Drake is tech 1, Uncle Oveur may be looking for something in return for giving you a BPO that's available in infinite numbers on the market ...

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