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Ruze No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.27 02:33:00 - [1] coughs at the flame-bait, attention getting headline, and moves to serious matters Right now, the Local chat channel is displayed in 'Immediate' mode. Whenever someone enters the channel (when they enter your system), they immediately show up. I'd like to see Local be used in 'Delayed' mode. What 'Delayed' mode does, is that person only shows up when they speak, and not before. This has several effects. First, whenever large bodies come into or leave a system, their images/names are not loaded to your system, thus ever-so-slightly reducing lag. Secondly, players will no longer be able to simply scan through and get a quick fix on whomever just came in or left. This won't effect lag, but will make it easier for pirates and waring corporations to get a jump on their enemies in other locations BESIDES the gates. Next, it WILL reduce lag by removing the current impulse to check the background of any new players who show up. It's a common tactic. Downside? It makes it harder for 0.0 and low sec corporations to keep track of who is in their space. It also makes it easier for a player to be snuck up on while mining or floating, as there is no tried and true way to know EXACTLY who is in a system at any given time. Oh, and that great change that I've read in other posts about standings showing up in chat? Yeah, no longer a threat to PvPers, unless you smack talk. Then everyone knows ... Genesis Project
Axitikus Minmatar Raid and Recon The Imperial Order	Posted - 2006.10.27 02:41:00 - [2] I wholeheartedly believe that this would make the game better as a whole, would be more pvp, and carebears would have to use actual strategies instead of relying on a game mechanic. CCP change my portrait to my ingame one!!!!
swordslasher Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 02:52:00 - [3] Originally by: Axitikus I wholeheartedly believe that this would make the game better as a whole, would be more pvp, and carebears would have to use actual strategies instead of relying on a game mechanic. How about removing scramblers then, that way pirates have to utilize actual strategies instead of game mechanics.. oh wait. everything is a game mechanic. Perpahps we should make all barges auto-self-destruct when a pirate enters local, and forward the killmails to your inbox, and the loot to your cargohold eh? All the pirates in eve were saying "OMG they're going to REMOVE LOCAL! in KALI YARRRRR FEAR ME!" and they add more to it, it's absolutely perfect. I love it. You know what's the sad part though? The only people who have ever died to pirates is the incompitent, this new addition to local won't make the incompitent compitent, so I don't see it having any effect on pirates, what so ever, you just want to make ganking easier, eh? IT SHOULD BE HARD, hence the WCS nerf. Originally by: BobGhengisKhan 7 page long circle jerk. Nice.
Vraygan	Posted - 2006.10.27 04:15:00 - [4] I've spent a lot of time in 0.0 and I totally understand why they are doing this. I have over 500 people in my address book (and growing rapidly) so that I know when hostiles are in system. According to the dev's the massive amount of friends on people's lists are affecting server performance to the point that we players notice it. Have you ever noticed that it takes longer to log into your main character than it does for your gate checking lemming alt? You've likely watched the dozens of pictures popping up on your screen. Add to this that the majority of my time spent in 0.0 is spent looking at people's standings by laboriously clicking in local for hours on end. I like the fact that now they are changing the game so that I can enjoy it more. I think you should do what you suggest, adapt to the new mechanics. Regardless of what you say, when you yarring pirates come in system I know it within 5 seconds. In response to your suggestion that people not show up in local for a certain time or untill x happens: taking out the ability for people to know when their friends enter a system takes away from the MMO part of the game. And a bigger point of this is how about we take your suggestion to the extreme. How about we do away with local all together! That way you never know if there is even a single soul in system! You'd have to check every single belt in every system you pass through just to find out if maybe there is someone there! LOL, oh I'm sure you'd go for that! No, what I think you want is for new people coming in system be able to know if anyone is there while your being there is not known. Then, you want to use this to your advantage to attack/gank people who can't know your in system. So you want all the advantage and none of the drawbacks from local. Right? The reality is that this is a game where other people play, not just you. The dev's have to be fair to both you and the people you want to attack. So no, IMO the dev's would never do this to their non-pirate customer base because there are more of them than there are pirates. I'm not intending on flaming, though I feel like it Anyways those are my thoughts on the matter.
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.27 04:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Axitikus I wholeheartedly believe that this would make the game better as a whole, would be more pvp, and carebears would have to use actual strategies instead of relying on a game mechanic. more scouting more exploring = more interesting game mostly, i don't think it will affect carebears - they live mostly in pos spammable systems where 10000x ravens 100000x and many many ships on safes.. so its not that easy to find some1 - but it make game much MORE interesting It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.27 04:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Vraygan taking out the ability for people to know when their friends enter a system takes away from the MMO part of the game. don't get wrong arguments here - theres no connection between "Local" and "Mmo" - if hes ur friend then u have a channel with him - if he don't talk to you - its your problem - maybe he don't wanna to be showed up in local then - no other games has this CHEAT - and no1 ever talking about it as "mmo" part - its more like arcade game not mmo.. It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:23:00 - [7] Originally by: MECTO don't get wrong arguments here - theres no connection between "Local" and "Mmo" - if hes ur friend then u have a channel with him - if he don't talk to you - its your problem - maybe he don't wanna to be showed up in local then - no other games has this CHEAT - and no1 ever talking about it as "mmo" part - its more like arcade game not mmo.. And how have you meet initially your friends? Started EVE with then and always played witht he same group? If you want to know some mew people you need tool capable to keep you in contact. Someone is suggesting to switch Local to constellation, but that will cut usefulness as we will get too much spammers with litle chance to cut them off changing system, and too much spurious signals (people yarring 3 system away, sell offers and so on). Sometime oper help and look for a meaningful conversaton. After 10 minutes working to follow it you will close it in disgust.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:30:00 - [8] I can definately see where the OP is coming from, but I also believe that what we're getting from CCP with their solution is a good deal. Currently, if pilots see a name they don't know in 0.0, they almost always do a show info, each time that means a request to the server for information. How many people aren't going to check the information on a positive standing player simply because they know it isn't a hostile? A lot I figure. Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Swor Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:43:00 - [9] and how many alliances are going to have all corporations like ours set to -10 so that they don't need to show info? i also dislike the constellation wide local, it allows everyone to know when were coming and safe up a few jumps in advance the only way to do it fairly is as the OP posted or time delayed The best way i can think of for alliances to avoid people like us with the top method is to keep clear lines of communication, use the scanner, and have scouts at your regional entrance gates
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:01:00 - [10] Either delayed or constellation would be fine with me.
Panta Rei ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:53:00 - [11] I would liek to see it partitioned into two modes, based on sovereignty (or possibly a module deployed on a POS in system). Members of the alliance with sovereignty should see it as it is now (implying that they have access to jumpgate logs to see who is in system), others should see it in delayed mode.
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.27 13:45:00 - [12] The real way to do it fairly is to erase it all together. this idea here is a set up for pirates.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.10.27 16:17:00 - [13] if you hate local, just undock your other windows from it and minimize it. there. problem solved. you get to play without local, and it did not even require a single line of extra coding or game wrecking. Blaque or Foiritan
King Dave Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.27 16:45:00 - [14] I don't know why carebears should even complain about this, as pirates can't see you when they enter local Will make pvp alot more boring tbh in some aspects, especially when your solo ganking, as to scan systems you will ahve to scan every system individually, even if their is no-one in their :\| I like local the way it is, if you sturggle finding targets, get better at scanning, and if your targets run away, bring less people ------------------------------- don't speak english... f1, f2, alt-q!
Mai Shiranui Amarr Petshop Hunters	Posted - 2006.10.27 18:46:00 - [15] No offense, but the real reason that pirates are *****ing about local is that pirate hunting squads can find them more easilly.. and force them to hide, dock or log. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=358423
Locutus ofBorg Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2006.10.27 18:57:00 - [16] lol i normally fight solo and when i see a pirate hunting group or some alliance that doesnt like me in their 0.0 space i take pot shots at them and get away before their tacklers hit me up. Most of the time in well established areas people know their friends/enemies/ and the occasional new face that pops up. The new standings in local is a good idea, saves my poor computer the time of looking for standings. Need a sig? Contact me ingame
BuckWild Feral Tendency	Posted - 2006.10.27 18:59:00 - [17] How about this. In all Empire space Local is prodcast so it stays the same as it is now, Makes sense, Concord is watching so it tells everyone who is in system. But once you hit 0.0 all that is shut off and local is empty unless that person speaks. Or your alliance/Corp has a tower there. A simple POS structure scans the system and tells you who is in the system. This is more real and true to life imo.
Tiidan Soban Blazing Saddles	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:05:00 - [18] yea they made local delayed like you all said like 2 years ago, and WOW it didnt work out like you all are saying it did it was really bad for 0.0 and low sec since anybody could just fly in, and you didnt have any knowlege if there was anybody on a gate (hehe many victims for me) but it got to the point where everyone was complaining... all in about a week and they put local back up on normal honestly i think this is the best step since i wont have to show info on everyone now hehe _____________________________________ oOoOoOo FiReWoRkS!!! :D
Mai Shiranui Amarr Petshop Hunters	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:06:00 - [19] Originally by: BuckWild How about this. In all Empire space Local is prodcast so it stays the same as it is now, Makes sense, Concord is watching so it tells everyone who is in system. But once you hit 0.0 all that is shut off and local is empty unless that person speaks. Or your alliance/Corp has a tower there. A simple POS structure scans the system and tells you who is in the system. This is more real and true to life imo. True to life? Sure. Wildly abusable by BoB/AF/KOS/pick your alliance? You betcha. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=358423
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Axitikus I wholeheartedly believe that this would make the game better as a whole, would be more pvp, and carebears would have to use actual strategies instead of relying on a game mechanic. You know what I think is funny? The only people in the entire game who are supposed to use "actual strategies" and generally have a hard time surviving are the people you want to kill.
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:56:00 - [21] Originally by: Tiidan Soban yea they made local delayed like you all said like 2 years ago, and WOW it didnt work out like you all are saying it did it was really bad for 0.0 and low sec since anybody could just fly in, and you didnt have any knowlege if there was anybody on a gate (hehe many victims for me) but it got to the point where everyone was complaining... all in about a week and they put local back up on normal honestly i think this is the best step since i wont have to show info on everyone now hehe Exactly, bail on it or leave it like it is. No sneaking around while people are chatting :D
Ruze No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.27 21:42:00 - [22] Switching local to 'Delayed' mode does a certain number of things: - First, you don't know who is in system. You do not know if there is a pirate (or a paycheck) in system. You can't be certain, right off the bat, who is there and who is not. - Server load would be lessened. This is simply undeniable. - Scanner tactics would apply to all. Pirates, warring groups, or carebears like me. - There are several dozen default channels open to ALL players that may provide the interaction of 'meet and greet.' And nothing would stop you from saying hello to someone in-station with you, or whom you meet in passing. This is not a buff to one group OR another. Each would have their own advantages and disadvantages. But I'll admit, I like some of your ideas. Alot. But in the simplest sense, I personally feel that this is the MOST BALANCED change. I'm currently writing a concept for giving more intel tools for the player that take the place of Local, and add to it. But these will require more active choices by players, and won't be default to everyone. They'll be a benifit for 0.0 corps and Empire groups, and you might just find you like the concept of them MORE than how local is currently used. I'll post a link here when it's done. Genesis Project
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.27 21:52:00 - [23] switching local to delayed mode only benefits pirates. I would rather see it removed completely then to give pirates anymore advantages.
Tiidan Soban Blazing Saddles	Posted - 2006.10.27 22:02:00 - [24] Edited by: Tiidan Soban on 27/10/2006 22:03:29 appearently since you are a carebear you dont know what goes on in alliance combat with multiple gangs, or 0.0 space for that matter local is an essential part of KEEPING 0.0 space for alliance, if it was gone then there wouldnt be a point for ppl making groups to go after hostiles in their systems, since most of 0.0 is untraveled anybody can get into a major system without anybody knowing and i do think that is completely retarded. That and taking out local will benifit pirates cuz then all they have to do is just sit on a gate instead of look for miners and whatnot, or they will just sit in high sec more and gank ppl in haulers and honestly, why take out local for a bunch of miners whining? a while ago it was all the pirates, oh my how the tables turn over time lol ~~~add~~~ That and the changes to local now will stop ppl from clicking so much in local to see who is an enemy and who isnt, so tbh i think CCP has a better idea than you _____________________________________ oOoOoOo FiReWoRkS!!! :D
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.27 22:23:00 - [25] Edited by: Zoxia on 27/10/2006 22:24:09 Originally by: Tiidan Soban Edited by: Tiidan Soban on 27/10/2006 22:03:29 appearently since you are a carebear you dont know what goes on in alliance combat with multiple gangs, or 0.0 space for that matter local is an essential part of KEEPING 0.0 space for alliance, if it was gone then there wouldnt be a point for ppl making groups to go after hostiles in their systems, since most of 0.0 is untraveled anybody can get into a major system without anybody knowing and i do think that is completely retarded. That and taking out local will benifit pirates cuz then all they have to do is just sit on a gate instead of look for miners and whatnot, or they will just sit in high sec more and gank ppl in haulers and honestly, why take out local for a bunch of miners whining? a while ago it was all the pirates, oh my how the tables turn over time lol ~~~add~~~ That and the changes to local now will stop ppl from clicking so much in local to see who is an enemy and who isnt, so tbh i think CCP has a better idea than you some changes coming i think will take care of that ;) kali 2 besdies that why should you know someone is in local when you have not scanned to find them in the first place?
Locutus ofBorg Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2006.10.27 22:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Tiidan Soban Edited by: Tiidan Soban on 27/10/2006 22:03:29 appearently since you are a carebear you dont know what goes on in alliance combat with multiple gangs, or 0.0 space for that matter local is an essential part of KEEPING 0.0 space for alliance, if it was gone then there wouldnt be a point for ppl making groups to go after hostiles in their systems, since most of 0.0 is untraveled anybody can get into a major system without anybody knowing and i do think that is completely retarded. That and taking out local will benifit pirates cuz then all they have to do is just sit on a gate instead of look for miners and whatnot, or they will just sit in high sec more and gank ppl in haulers and honestly, why take out local for a bunch of miners whining? a while ago it was all the pirates, oh my how the tables turn over time lol ~~~add~~~ That and the changes to local now will stop ppl from clicking so much in local to see who is an enemy and who isnt, so tbh i think CCP has a better idea than you LOL soban, dude i already sit on a gate and wait for people to come to me. Kicking local will only hinder my ability to avoid gank gangs. So everyone saying it will hurt carebears, think about this as your advantage. Need a sig? Contact me ingame
Tiidan Soban Blazing Saddles	Posted - 2006.10.27 22:46:00 - [27] not my advantage since all pirates will have to do is just sit on a popular gate and ppl will just come to them not seeing whose about to kill them.... personally i like them to see their death b4 i give it to them but im just sayin, doing that will hurt eve more than help it _____________________________________ oOoOoOo FiReWoRkS!!! :D
The Judge The Eternal Knights	Posted - 2006.10.27 22:59:00 - [28] If its not broke, then don't fix it. Leave it as it is currently
Ruze No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.27 23:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Tiidan Soban Edited by: Tiidan Soban on 27/10/2006 22:47:59 not my advantage since all pirates will have to do is just sit on a popular gate and ppl will just come to them not seeing whose about to kill them.... personally i like them to see their death b4 i give it to them but im just sayin, doing that will hurt eve more than help it you also think that it would help miners more? whats easier, jumping into a system and scanning the belts, or sitting there mining not knowing whose in the system, i mean... who wants to stare at a scanner the whole time while someone is mining? It's no real worry, I guess. Personally, I like this concept because, AS A CAREBEAR, I can avoid those pirates all the easier. They don't know where I am or who I am. Of course, I already use the ship-board scanner religiously, and treat everyone as if they are my enemy. I've played the part in large scale alliance combat, and understand how it's used. I see how powerful it is, and won't deny that as long as it's around I'll use it to do just what everyone else uses it to do. But, having it available seems wrong, for no other reason than because it doesn't require a player to do ANYTHING in order to get the information. That being said, maybe this will make you more interested. Maybe not: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=418185&page=1 Sometimes the best changes actually make the game a little bit harder for everyone. Though I'm sure CCP is smarter than me (they do get paid to do the job), this post is not entirely my own, as most of you have seen it before. And since I'm not a dev, it's all just thought and daydreaming anyhow ... Genesis Project
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2006.10.27 23:27:00 - [30] Both as a minor carebear and uber(i like myself♥) piewat/pvper, i do not believe in removing local like it is. It's a tool commonly used by both Pvpers, as a way to spot targets, and potentially avoid uber blobs(no one likes jumping solo into 200 hostile ships... well maybe sometimes, but i like to know about it first) while used in somewhat the same way by carebears(alot of them do not watch it very frequently though)except they are now looking for potential pirates/people that would pop them. Although this tool may seem overpowered by some, removing this would result in a major weight added to whatever side of the "balance" of pvp/industry. HAC prices are already high enough, even with this tool used by both pvp'ers and carebears ------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000

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