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Exploration and Scan Probing in Kali

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Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.27 16:54:00 - [1] Exploration and Scan Probing in Kali Source: TomB Dev Blog ------ Probes We will change probes so that they are capable of scanning as singletons and give results on found objects. This means you wonÆt need three probes to create a pizza-alike triangle to find objects within. They are getting scan strength which is used for finding objects. Inaccuracy and scan radius will also be getting some tuning to increase usability of all the probes. Lost & Found Just finding objects will be based on the probe type you are using. Its stats will 'battle' against the stats of the objects within its scan radius, if the probe wins it finds the object and gives you the estimated location of the findings. The factors used on the objects for this mini-battle are signature radius (big is bad) and scan strength (high is good), where frigates are commonly harder to find than battleships/ capital ships, while recon based ships are in general the hardest ships to find. Inaccuracy Inaccuracy has been modified as well; the harder it was for the probe to find the object, the higher the probability of error. Still there is a little chance factored here, so you might get lucky/unlucky with a sloppy long range probe and land in the face of the thing you scanned. Addons New stuff will be added to make players that want to specialize init to become better, faster and more stylish atit: * 1x new Launcher (Recon Probe Launcher; fast and deadly - made for ship scanning) * ?x new Probes (special ones to find special things) * 2-3x new Skills (increased efficiency, faster scanning (Astrometrics changed to give more groups to scan for) and perhaps faster deployment) UI / Usability We have improved the scanning window in many ways, making it easier to operate and changed all this no-good group selection thingy while still adding more stuff to scan for. But instead of selecting a single ship group as you do today, we have merged a lot of groups to keep it more simple, making it only five groups to scan for, and these five groups can also be scanned for at the same time if you have the skillz. One of these groups is just ôShipsö - selecting that group scans for all ship types in the game, this and the new recon scanning should make it a lot faster for scanner dudes to pin-point a ship in a system. ----- Forum comments from TomB TomB: Now there's something I forgot to mention; 1. Probes can not be deployed within scan radius of another probe owned by the same person 2. Probe strength stacks with other probes if an object is located in both probe radiuses 3. Inaccuracy is stacked as well with even freakier results, "stacking" a probe with high inaccruacy and another one with low inaccuracy won't give the same results as if the low inaccuracy would have given you -- Quote: So basicly safespotting remains the Uber and anyone who has managed to create an off grid safespot 10 warps out from any point of the system is sill impossible to find and kill? There will be a probe with almost unlimited range, it's not the best but it will be able to find ships that have gone to far into space. And it will be able to work alone, like all probes will. -- Quote: I would also like to know about the possibility of scanning for a cloaked ship. Cloaked ships will be scanable, but they won't get uncloaked if they are found on the scanner. -- Quote: Can recon launchers only be fitted on recon ships? Woopsie, the name "Recon Launcher" has nothing to do with Recon ships there, it's just called that atm, Covert Ops are still supposed to be equally or even more scan based than Recons. I'll get the name changed, thanks for pointing that out.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.27 16:55:00 - [2] Edited by: Aertuun on 27/10/2006 16:56:17 Edited by: Aertuun on 27/10/2006 16:55:36 Quote: Will deadspace signatures for exploration items always be in the same systems? These deadspace signatures won't be static, you can read more about it here. Or here: "We are creating a distribution mechanic that will deploy hidden locations throughout space, pockets which will move to new locations when they feel like it, but dependent on what the pilots are doing in the world. With this Exploration system, players of all types will be able to strike gold, hit the jack pot, find the golden pot under the rainbow or what ever someone might call it." ----- Dev blog showing examples of exploration and scan probing: A Story of Elvis and Sigfried And comment: TomB: The colour shows how hard it was to spot the found object, which leads to inaccuracy of the scan result. Red means: that thing is so big that it glows in dark space. ----- Screenshots of new probe modules: Screenshot 1 Screenshot 2 ----- Comments following the opening of Kali testing: Tuxford: The recon probe launchers are more for hunting ships. The other probes, gravimetric and such named are very accurate but take a lot of time to scan. They are mostly useful for finding celestial anomalies. Tuxford: Ok here's the deal with snoop probes. They are really expected to go into the recon probes which has a two minute base scan time. With good skills you can put them into the scan probe launchers but why would you do that. You're better of using one of the bigger probes if you're gonna do that anyway. Tuxford: Actually snoop, spook, fathom, ferret and so on are all better in the recon probe launcher. If you can fit it in the recon probe launcher, use that one because its scans faster. Of course those gravimetric, radar, lader and magnetometric probes don't fit in the recon probe launcher.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.27 16:57:00 - [3] -- reserved --
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.04 00:31:00 - [4] Am currently doing probe testing. So far, system seems to be holding up well. It also seems remarkably well balanced. Contrary to Dahin's post above, which seems to be confused about how the new probes work. Signal strength is new, and refers to the percentage chance of finding an object during a scan. 1+ signal strength will mean a result every time. Less than that can be translated into percentage: 0.75 = Ship will show up on after probe scan 75% of the time. Signal strengths seems to depend on: (Signature radius + Sensor Strength) of ship vs (Distance from target + Sensor Strength) of probe i.e. a probe at max range will have a much harder time finding things then ships sitting right next to it. A shuttle is much harder to find than a battleship, for example. Larger groups of ships are easier to find than small groups of ships, as there's more chance of one ship returning a "result" and therefore leading you to the others. Scan probes do NOT seem to stack their sensor strength between gang members. Will try stacking sensor strength of my own probes once back on server.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 11:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Lily Savage Are the BPOs for scan probes going to be seeded? There are BPOs on the market, it is unknown if they are going to be seeded. Quote: If a scanned object has a signal strength above 1.0, the scan deviation is 0. This is making scanning far too powerful!!! This isn't too powerful, no. Given that at point blank range (less than 100km from the probe) a frigate such as a Maulus or Incursus comes out at 0.97 or 0.6 signal strength, we're highly unlikely to see scan deviations of 0 in any sort of real situations. This is with the probe sitting next to the ships. At any sort of distance, signal strength starts dropping. Quote: The new exploration system however, there is little to no info on it ... It's funny, I'm sure I saw quite a full explanation of it in the opening posts of this thread. Quote: On SiSi I can launch a 5AU probe from either the recon or scan probe launcher, I go to my scanner and select the probe, try to select a group to scan for... and can't. Try scanning without selecting a probe group. It should default to ships. AFAIK, that bug was fixed in a previous build however. Seems to work fine now. Quote: *) Drones have a very high signal strength, they are easier to be found as most ships. Maybe this is because their sensorstrength is as low. The signal strength of drones may need some tweaking. It is also impossible at the moment to probe out freighters, as they have no signal strength stat.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:32:00 - [6] Managed to reverse engineer the formula for signal strength with a few hours of tests last night. System seems very solid, and allows for ship fittings that dramatically reduce your chances of being found with probes. Haven't checked the effects of cloaks on signal strength yet.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 14:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Aertuun on 05/11/2006 14:04:52 Spent a few hours last night working out how signal strength was calculated, with help from the beautiful assistants wapacz and Gli Liphon. Signal strength is the percentage chance a ship within your probe's range will be found. It also is used in determining result inaccuracy. Signal strength = (Signature radius of ship * Probe sensor strength * Ship Distance from probe (as a % of probe range)) divided by (Ship Sensor Strength * 100) So for a Raven being found with a Snoop probe at negligible range from the probe: Signal = (460 * 20 * 1.00 ) / (22 * 100) = 4.18 Currently unsure about: How the probe's range is converted into a percentage. At 9.77 AU range on a 10 AU probe, signal strength is reduced by 0.1895 (18.9%). It's possible there's a rock bottom of 15-16% signal strength exists for absolute max range. Also unsure how it scales between the two values (from zero range to max range). May do some tests today on that.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 20:21:00 - [8] Originally by: PCX339 Thank you for the excellent info. I wonder, has anyone tried ECCM with this yet? My account isn't active on SiSi (no, I've never let it lapse), so I can't test it myself. If ECCM/Sensor backup arrays make it harder for people to probe you out, that might be a neat little additional factor to consider for covert work. ECCM modules were used during the tests: Doubling your ECCM makes you twice as hard to probe. One of the best named ECCM module or a tech II module is enough to do that.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 20:44:00 - [9] Did some work on distances. Looked at the signal strength at 0 range, then went gradually further away, testing with several different probe types. For an object at the maximum range of a probe (10AU for a 10AU probe), lowest possible signal strength return is 35%. Any object closer than 35% of the probe's range (say 3.5AU for a 10AU probe), will give a signal strength return of 90+%. Have put a graph together plotting all the data points. Will try to work out what equation it follows over the next few days. The line is not linear, but does seem to follow an equation.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.06 14:11:00 - [10] Edited by: Aertuun on 06/11/2006 14:12:58 Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Xcom Can you pleas explain what you describe here. Signal = (460 * 20 * 1.00 ) / (22 * 100) = 4.18 1. What is 4.18? ItÆs just a number. Please describe what it means. 2. How does that affect the percentage of finding an object? 3. How does it affect the distance you will end up from the target after warping to it? From what I understand 4.18 is the chance to find the target and the range you will end up from it. More than 1 = 100% chance and you can warp in at 0km. Yes, this is the right interpretation. The reason "divide by 100" is in the formula above is to convert the percentage into what you see in game. Quote: At 0.5 you would have 50% chance, not sure at the distance but probably around 50% of max deviation for that probe. 0.5 is 50%, but what effects the inaccuracy of a result is currently unknown. What we do know is that greater than 1.0 signal strength = 0km inaccuracy. We also know the inaccuracy of probe results vary from scan to scan. We also don't know for sure how the distance works, in terms of the distance between the ship and the probe. At zero range, there is no effect on signal strength due to range (signal is "full" or 100%). At max range of probe, I'm fairly sure signal strength is reduced to 35% of what it otherwise would be (this has been updated from the post before, where I thought max range = 16% due to mixing up results). In between, I think, based on what a poster said before, can be worked out with: Effect on signal strength due to range is based around sin(x), where x is the percentage of the probe's range. Will test this once home.

Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.12 03:46:00 - [11] Updated the sticky with the completed formula.
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.17 00:20:00 - [12] Have we tried dropping one of the larger probes right next to a cloaked ship yet? Hoshi has said cloaked ships can't be probed yet. What kind of tests were done?
Aertuun Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:25:00 - [13] Edited by: Aertuun on 17/11/2006 11:34:06 Originally by: Hoshi ...gave the expected 232 signal strength when the ship was uncloaked and no result after 5 searches when it was cloaked... That definitely falls under bugged then That is, unless cloaking reduces signal strength by a factor of more than 232, which would make them impossible to probe anyway. Given that, do we have any idea whether probing for cloaked ships is still planned?

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