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Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:02:00 - [1] Informations Warfare is meant to be Gallente... Let look at the other warfare links before going on: Amarr: Armored warfare link - damage control: cap reduction in armor reps Armored warfare link - passive defense: boosts armor resists Armored warfare link - rapid repair: boosts speed of armor reps Comment: All of the bonus' are of Amarr nature. Amarr are meant to strong armor tank. Caldari: Siege warfare link - active shielding: boosts speed of shield boosters Siege warfare link - shield efficiency: cap reduction in shield boosters Siege warfare link - shield harmonizing: boosts shield resists Comment: Same as Amarr for Caldari, instead of armor they got shields... Minmatar: Skirmish warfare link - interdiction maneuvers: boosts range of webs and scrams Skirmish warfare link - evasive maneuvers: reduces signature radius Skirmish warfare link - rapid deployment: boosts speed of AB and MWD Comment: Increased range of scramblers (not webs though) are actually a gallene thing (lachesis comes to mind) but in general all the bonus' are helping minmatar play out their strengths (speed, dictating range and hard to hit). Gallente: Information warfare link - electronic superiority: boosts ECM (supposed to be all EW, its a bug) strength Information warfare link - recon operation: boosts scan resolution, aka faster locking time Information warfare link - sensor integrity: boosts sensor strength Now... all races' warfare links are boosting the defensive strengths of that race even more. When was EW ever a defensive strength of Gallente?! Lets assume electronic superiority works also for sensor dampners: Electronic superiority: Useless as defense for most Gallente ships, I dont remember fitting a RSD as defence vs anything, only as means of an offensive weapon on a dedicated RSD med-long range setup... Recon operation: Fast locking is not even a Gallente strength but a Caldari one, fast locking is useless for anything except ECM duels!! Sensor integrity: Usually Gallente ships have the second lowest sensor strength in their class, again this bonus is catering for Caldari who have the best sensor strength in their class. Show me one thing thats Gallente about Information Warfare? Looks like some DEV tried to eliminate the cons of gallente and failed miserably at it. If he succeded it would overpowered Gallente anyway, besides we dont see shield warfare links for Amarr or vice-versa. Information Warfare is meant to be gallente way of enhancing defense, just like the other warfare links do to their respective races. What is gallente defense though? - Dual rep tank with cap boosters.. Maybe a cap booster efficiency bonus would be appropiate. - Passive shield/armor tank with gank setup (with tackler support if shields).. Maybe give a efficiency bonus to plates and extenders. - Reaching target before cap and tank runs out.. Maybe an AB/MWD cap usage reduction bonus. - ... What ever gallente defense is, I know Information Warfare is not defense and definetly not gallente!! Discuss Pls..
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.28 11:53:00 - [2] So everyone thinks its alright that gallente become caldari's ECM boost *****s?
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.28 11:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Kunming So everyone thinks its alright that gallente become caldari's ECM boost *****s? Dunno, i run armor links on eos Remove citadel torpedo flashes!
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.28 11:59:00 - [4] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Kunming So everyone thinks its alright that gallente become caldari's ECM boost *****s? Dunno, i run armor links on eos Thats what you have the Damnation for.. or so I thought!
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.28 12:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Kunming So everyone thinks its alright that gallente become caldari's ECM boost *****s? Dunno, i run armor links on eos Thats what you have the Damnation for.. or so I thought! Clearly not, as I also sometimes run armor links on my eos. errrr, wait, perhaps that means there is a valid point in this topic? Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Waxau Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.10.28 17:52:00 - [6] Doesnt matter really - i use armor ones on my vulture - for the purpose of helping the gang. The 3% bonus doesnt make much of a difference. Can understand your frustration, but in combat, it makes a hell of a difference
Mallick Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.28 18:14:00 - [7] Should change the Gallente Warfare Links really. Maybe this will do. Gallente Warfare Link - Structure Superiority: Boosts structure hitpoints. Gallente Warfare Link - Armor Superiority: Boosts armor hitpoints. Gallente Warfare Link - Shield Superiority: Boosts shield hitpoints. How about that? :P
SasRipper Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.28 18:17:00 - [8] just swap them around Caldari: Information warfare Gallente: Skirmish warfare Minmatar: Siege warfare Amarr: stay the same /me puts on flamesuit " Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread.
Waxau Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.10.28 19:31:00 - [9] Weel actually id suggest caldari keep the siege warfare as they naturally only shield tank. Minmatar do both. Not all ecm-based ships are caldari. Correct me if im wrong, which is likely, but isnt the crucifier an ecm boat? So i dont think its 'caldari' limited. Plus im sure theres more ecm on domis than blackbirds even^^
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.28 19:43:00 - [10] The real solution is what has been mentioned in earlier threads, and follows all logic: That each race gets bonus to two of the warfare groups. Caldari; siege and information Gallange; armor and information Minmatar; siege and skirmish Amarr; armor and skirmish (although debatable if skirmish fits in on amarr :s) Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me

Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.28 19:47:00 - [11] Of course, this doesn't even touch on the topic that the ship bonus is almost useless, adding a total of 1.44% in most cases to the effectiveness of the warfare link. Raptor and Ares Fix
Sir Drake	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Kunming Recon operation: Fast locking is not even a Gallente strength but a Caldari one, fast locking is useless for anything except ECM duels!! What about gate camps etc.? I love to lock as fast as possible. Also where did you get the idea from the "Amarr/Caldari/Minmatar/Gallente natur" of the gang modules? I certainly never gave that a thought and simply used those modules that would serve my gang best. That being said the "gallente natur" gang modules should enhance 1. turret tracking 2. turret damage 3. turret energy consumption So with amarr = armor, caldari = shield and minmatar = mobility it would only be fair to add something that enhances the dmg-output.
Waxau Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:17:00 - [13] drake - that makes it a bit too overpowered. No other modules increase damage or anything. Plus then it gimps missiles.
Helmut 314 Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2006.10.28 20:20:00 - [14] Exactly why is this a problem ? Unless youre a hardcore roleplayer why not just fit the links that do the most good for the gang ? ________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:58:00 - [15] Edited by: dalman on 28/10/2006 21:59:22 Originally by: Helmut 314 Exactly why is this a problem ? Unless youre a hardcore roleplayer why not just fit the links that do the most good for the gang ? Obviously, that's what everyone is doing. However, although the bonus from the command ships are small, it's still a bonus. And do you run gang-mods yourself? You need to invest alot of skillpoints. The following is "required" to use it; Leadership (rank1) level 5 * warfare (rank 2) lvl 5 * warfare specialist (rank 5) lvl 5 Squadron command (rank 6) lvl 4 Cybernetics (rank 3) lvl 5 Command ships (rank 8) lvl x Battlecruiser (rank 6) lvl 5 Racial cruiser (rank 5) lvl 5 Spaceship command (rank 1) lvl 5 Logistics (rank 6) lvl 4 Long-range targeting (rank 2) lvl 5 Signature analysis (rank 1) lvl 5 If you want to train to use different kinds of gang links, you'll also need one jump-clone for each of your choice. These skills also span over all the attributes. Of course, some of them are stuff you may want to train anyway. But it is a loooooong list, and at that point you'd appreciate even the small bonus you're getting from the ship... Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.28 22:53:00 - [16] I agree that I felt like gallente were getting the leftovers for gang modules where all the sensible choices had affected the other races (armor for amarr, shield for caldari and speed for minmatar) However, this being said, unless you're a hardcore roleplayer, The race of the command ship you're flying has nothing to do with the races of the gangmates' ships you're boosting. ___________________________________________ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing
Sewell	Posted - 2006.10.29 00:04:00 - [17] Gallente Leadership skills and modules should boost drone performance IMO (and rename it to something else than information warfare). That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange µons, even death may die.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.29 00:08:00 - [18] /signed. wow, those bonuses are really stupid wtf was ccp thinking there? ALL the others seem to compliment their race's so well. i've never really paid much attention to the gallente war links, i'd sure be interested to know, why the red-headed stepchild?
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.29 12:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Waxau Weel actually id suggest caldari keep the siege warfare as they naturally only shield tank. Minmatar do both. Not all ecm-based ships are caldari. Correct me if im wrong, which is likely, but isnt the crucifier an ecm boat? So i dont think its 'caldari' limited. Plus im sure theres more ecm on domis than blackbirds even^^ Crucifier and dominix are not ECM boats, they got no ECM bonus, only the crucifier has a tracking disruptor bonus, the dominix has no EW related bonus at all. ECM is being used on there ships (namely the domi) due to the overpowered nature of the ECM modules themself. Originally by: Sir Drake What about gate camps etc.? I love to lock as fast as possible. Also where did you get the idea from the "Amarr/Caldari/Minmatar/Gallente natur" of the gang modules? I certainly never gave that a thought and simply used those modules that would serve my gang best. That being said the "gallente natur" gang modules should enhance 1. turret tracking 2. turret damage 3. turret energy consumption So with amarr = armor, caldari = shield and minmatar = mobility it would only be fair to add something that enhances the dmg-output. With dictors around, you dont need to fast lock to scramble someone. Fast lock in gate camps is only important for webbing the target, since minmatar have the webbing recon its totally useless for gallente. Besides the warfare links boost the strongest side of their respective race. Amarr, Caldari,.. nature of modules come from the command ships' bonus'. Amarr CBC has bonus to Armored Warfare, Caldari Siege, etc. And no for dmg increasing bonus, all warfare links are meant for defence. Amarr armor tank so armor bonus, caldari shield tank.. shield bonus, minmatar use speed as defence so relevant bonus to that. When did gallente use ECM as defense? Together with the ECM nerf gallente warfare links become even more useless. Gallente could get bonus to: shield HP, armor HP and hull resist.. that would make some sense atleast!
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.29 12:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Kunming Gallente: Information warfare link - electronic superiority: boosts ECM (supposed to be all EW, its a bug) strength Information warfare link - recon operation: boosts scan resolution, aka faster locking time Information warfare link - sensor integrity: boosts sensor strength Now... all races' warfare links are boosting the defensive strengths of that race even more. When was EW ever a defensive strength of Gallente?! Lets assume electronic superiority works also for sensor dampners: Electronic superiority: Useless as defense for most Gallente ships, I dont remember fitting a RSD as defence vs anything, only as means of an offensive weapon on a dedicated RSD med-long range setup... Recon operation: Fast locking is not even a Gallente strength but a Caldari one, fast locking is useless for anything except ECM duels!! Sensor integrity: Usually Gallente ships have the second lowest sensor strength in their class, again this bonus is catering for Caldari who have the best sensor strength in their class. Show me one thing thats Gallente about Information Warfare? Looks like some DEV tried to eliminate the cons of gallente and failed miserably at it. If he succeded it would overpowered Gallente anyway, besides we dont see shield warfare links for Amarr or vice-versa. Information Warfare is meant to be gallente way of enhancing defense, just like the other warfare links do to their respective races. What is gallente defense though? - Dual rep tank with cap boosters.. Maybe a cap booster efficiency bonus would be appropiate. - Passive shield/armor tank with gank setup (with tackler support if shields).. Maybe give a efficiency bonus to plates and extenders. - Reaching target before cap and tank runs out.. Maybe an AB/MWD cap usage reduction bonus. - ... What ever gallente defense is, I know Information Warfare is not defense and definetly not gallente!! Discuss Pls.. If every ship had two or three RSDs fitted when flying in a fleet it would devastate the opponents ability to deliver damage, thus being a very good defence, don't you agree? Mind control and tin hats

Waxau Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.10.29 12:19:00 - [21] Kunming - i didnt say the domi had ecm bonus. I said it fits ecm usually - despite not having a bonus. Not all ships have to fit what theyre bonuses are for, and in this case, a very minute bonus. Secondly, thanks for letting me know about the bonuses to the crucifier.
Galen Silas Gallente Digital assassins	Posted - 2006.10.30 14:45:00 - [22] If you want my opinion, i think gallente should have gotten this.... Energy Warfare. Bonus's: 1. Nos/Neut amount taken 2. Nos/Neut Optimal range 3. Nos/Neut Duration Pretty simple, a lot of gallente ships use nos and neuts, thinkin maybe this would be pretty sweet to have. Either this or you could have something that would make the stats of all the gangs Drones increased. Bonus's: 1. Drone Damage/hitpoints/mining yield 2. Drone tracking speed 3. Drone ROF/Velocity, either one of the last two. But whoever stated it does havea point, don't screw gallente another time by giving them a bonus for crap they don't use. I don't use very much elec warfare if at all, maybe the occasional sensor dampener, but i would much rather have bonus's like the ones listed above, because the things above us gallente always use, and I am pretty sure other races wouldn't mind the bonus's
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.30 18:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Galen Silas If you want my opinion, i think gallente should have gotten this.... Energy Warfare. Bonus's: 1. Nos/Neut amount taken 2. Nos/Neut Optimal range 3. Nos/Neut Duration Pretty simple, a lot of gallente ships use nos and neuts, thinkin maybe this would be pretty sweet to have. Either this or you could have something that would make the stats of all the gangs Drones increased. Bonus's: 1. Drone Damage/hitpoints/mining yield 2. Drone tracking speed 3. Drone ROF/Velocity, either one of the last two. But whoever stated it does havea point, don't screw gallente another time by giving them a bonus for crap they don't use. I don't use very much elec warfare if at all, maybe the occasional sensor dampener, but i would much rather have bonus's like the ones listed above, because the things above us gallente always use, and I am pretty sure other races wouldn't mind the bonus's You are only thinking about drone boats, same with the RSDs, blasterboats have no slots free for EW (rarely 1-2 mids on big hulls) and a full gank setup is better on them than a "Nos + Guns" mix. Besides these are all offensive bonus', the warfare links are meant to be defensive.. my point stands that hull resist, armor HP and shield HP are the best that would fit gallente especially considering the HP boost, they need more buffer to deliver DPS to compensate. Not to forget its pretty useless to fit plate + lowest-turrets on gallente boats and ships will be pretty useless without plates/extenders.
Garramon Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.30 20:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Kunming Gallente:Information warfare link - recon operation: boosts scan resolution, aka faster locking time That would be awesome, but it is wrong. Recon Operation boosts ECM range. For some reason the fact that ~50% of the people replying to the thread fail to read and understand the point of the OP is hilarious.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.30 21:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Garramon Originally by: Kunming Gallente:Information warfare link - recon operation: boosts scan resolution, aka faster locking time That would be awesome, but it is wrong. Recon Operation boosts ECM range. Taken out of item description: Quote: Increases the scan resolution of all ships in the gang. Scan resolution is what competes vs signature radius and determines your locking speed. Nothing to do with ECM range. Still its pointless, my gallente ships lock the target long before I'm in range to do any dmg and for fast locking simply use a taranis with sensor booster.
Still Hart Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.10.30 21:24:00 - [26] This is the dumbest gripe I've seen so far on these silly forums. Gang warfare links are to support the ENTIRE GANG/FLEET! When's the last time you took your Gallente command ship out in an all-Gallente fleet? Never? Oh, that's what I thought. Get your head out of your ass. These are great mods and the only thing Gallentean about them is the CS bonus. So what if it doesn't help your particular ship all that much? Your ship is primarily gang boosting anyhow. Egads. Some people... _____________________
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.30 23:07:00 - [27] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 30/10/2006 23:07:51 Originally by: Kunming Taken out of item description: Quote: Increases the scan resolution of all ships in the gang. Scan resolution is what competes vs signature radius and determines your locking speed. Nothing to do with ECM range. Still its pointless, my gallente ships lock the target long before I'm in range to do any dmg and for fast locking simply use a taranis with sensor booster. Item description is wrong. Patch notes for 3913: # Information Warfare Link - Electronic Superiority now gives bonus to ECM jam strength. # Information Warfare Link - Recon Operation now gives bonus to Electronic warfare module range. I suppose someone should bug report it - I never noticed that the descriptions weren't updated... EDIT: Oh yeah, it should be noted that both modules only work on ECM currently. Tuxford has said several times that they should be fixed soon. I forgot to check on SISI when I was on the other day... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.30 23:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Still Hart This is the dumbest gripe I've seen so far on these silly forums. Gang warfare links are to support the ENTIRE GANG/FLEET! When's the last time you took your Gallente command ship out in an all-Gallente fleet? Never? Oh, that's what I thought. Get your head out of your ass. These are great mods and the only thing Gallentean about them is the CS bonus. So what if it doesn't help your particular ship all that much? Your ship is primarily gang boosting anyhow. Egads. Some people... I usually fit 6 command links on an Eos. Typically this includes either 0 or 1 links from Information Warfare. Thats the issue - they aren't as useful as the other modules! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Zenst Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.30 23:59:00 - [29] Well I Have all the galante tree maxed for EOS and links and I like them. I agree few kinks to be sorted out with the other ECM modules. But they work and so do have there uses. With the right support crew and modules you can do evil evil things. But thats for another day }-> Yes I agree it is the bum end of the stick but thats entirely my fault as whatever I train for CCP goes and sticks it too me :(. I shall be training capital ships sometime soon (all prereq's done) so expect a nerfing of some form upon them :D. Though these new rigs things will end up making my mechanic skills ugly for a while :). Only skill that upset me on the whole area of uber command ships with links was having to finaly train cybernetics l5.
Alowishus	Posted - 2006.10.31 00:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Kunming Fast locking is not even a Gallente strength but a Caldari one, fast locking is useless for anything except ECM duels!! I disagree, fast locking can be a great strength to Gallente. If they can lock faster than their enemy it allows them to get a damp on someone and this allows them to get into range of their blasters and do some damage before the person can lock. Sensor damps = Gallente. Lets not forget that half a sensor damp's ability is USELESS on a close range ship if you don't get a lock first. That second ability of a damp is unnecessary to a ranged ship so it must serve some purpose to someone, right? Well here it is.



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