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Why is logging out bad?

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Enotz Amarr Terminus Est Incorporated	Posted - 2006.10.28 01:27:00 - [1] I've got a friend who just can't get it through his head why logging out in the middle of PvP is something he shouldn't do , can someone explain it better than I can? Thanks-
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.28 01:30:00 - [2] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/10/2006 01:30:55 When you quit a game of Chess, you forfeit, that is, you lose. You give up the game to the other player. It isn't a draw, and it isn't a win: its an automatic loss wherever you play. If you could simply quit and draw before the last move where you would be checkmated, how could you ever lose? Every game would be a draw! EVE is no different. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Tek'a Rain Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.10.28 01:37:00 - [3] Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 28/10/2006 01:37:41 wow. thats possibly the very best, nonflame explaination ever. edit: DS's was, anyhow. I blame the tachikomas Blaque or Foiritan
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.10.28 01:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Major Stormer on 28/10/2006 01:37:49 Its cheating. Plain and Simple. -------------------------- Join Demon Womb! PVP, Rats, Industry, join the fun!
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2006.10.28 01:41:00 - [5] If he needs to ask, he won't get it.
Enotz Amarr Terminus Est Incorporated	Posted - 2006.10.28 01:44:00 - [6] Originally by: Tek'a Rain Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 28/10/2006 01:37:41 wow. thats possibly the very best, nonflame explaination ever. edit: DS's was, anyhow. Seconded...
St Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.10.28 01:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Tek'a Rain Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 28/10/2006 01:37:41 wow. thats possibly the very best, nonflame explaination ever. edit: DS's was, anyhow. I blame the tachikomas NO dont blame them thay are cutieness!!! Hugs my Tachikoma plushie ♥ ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.28 02:03:00 - [8] Edited by: Lorth on 28/10/2006 02:04:31 Originally by: Cmdr Sy If he needs to ask, he won't get it. Ya lots of offence to your friend, but how in the world can someone not actually get why this is a bad thing? EDIT: I started by saying no offence, but after thinking about it someone who can't see a problem with cheating deserves to be flamed and offended as possible.
DefJam101	Posted - 2006.10.28 02:10:00 - [9] Go Dark Shik! CanIhavesomeISKnowpls?kthxbai ...although you probably could've just done a barrel roll. *** Your signature is too large. The limit is 24000 bytes. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/5980/resizefinalbs2.jpg
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.28 02:25:00 - [10] It's using techincal sa*uards that are there incase of disconnects to save you in pvp situations. In other words, metagaming. It's clearly not CCP's intent** for you to do this, they just can't police it so they turn a blind eye.
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.28 02:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Pestillence In other words, metagaming. I'm as much against logging out as you are, but thats a retarded argument against it. Alt scouts are metagaming, and they're one of the proposed alternatives to metagaming. There's nothing wrong with metagaming, but logging out goes beyond metagaming. my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp
Copine Callmeknau The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.28 02:33:00 - [12] It's metagaming, just like buying accounts or ISK on ebay. -- Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.28 08:12:00 - [13] as said its cheating. its a way of saving your ship when your own skills and thoughts cant, its basicaly using a out of game method to live(i doubt the quit function is actualy part of eve game play). cheating = bad _____ RAM is recruiting
Kolatha	Posted - 2006.10.28 08:26:00 - [14] Another way to put it is that it is just poor sportsmanship. It's like the kid who owns the football then quitting the game and taking the ball home for no other reason than he is losing.
Roshan longshot Gallente Order of the Arrow	Posted - 2006.10.28 09:28:00 - [15] Ok its like flying your migs to Iran for safe storage...Or bury them under the sand... But I was reading the "book" (you know that paper thingy that came with the CD thingy in a box?) And one of the things it states...."If you get in above your head...just log off." Well how things have changed.... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.28 10:09:00 - [16] then again so is using the log in tactic - im neither for or against logging i dont do it personally ill take the loss but it is considered badform most PVP alliances will boot u if u persist in doing it. its a ingame culture thing really
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.28 10:21:00 - [17] One could also say, I lost the battle but I won the war. To some the end justify the means. But often its burns people in the back. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.10.28 14:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Cmdr Sy If he needs to ask, hes in Idiot or about 12c years old. Changed
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.10.28 14:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Enotz I've got a friend who just can't get it through his head why logging out in the middle of PvP is something he shouldn't do , can someone explain it better than I can? Thanks- Why shouldn't he be able to quit playing at any time?
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.28 15:31:00 - [20] basically its a chickens way out and its an exploit of the game. sure you can do it but eventually people will realize what your about. its your name in the game on the line do as you wish just remember later when you end up and the wrong end of the stick because no one wants to deal with you.
Andrymeda	Posted - 2006.10.28 15:56:00 - [21] For one, this is not cheating. It is a dubious tactic at best and there are so many grey areas in which one cannot put a simple rule to state if its cheating. From a capital ship attacking a frig (like that is going to happen 1v1), to two equally matched compatants, logging in and out is part of the game! Next thing we will hear about is docking and how unfair it is I could not blow up his ship before that happened. I will tell you the funniest one I ever saw, I was laying waste to one player and he logged off. He did this often with a lot of my corp mates. He was not worth pursuing anymore. Yet he maintained his war state with our corp. Our policy was to totally ignore him. Yet he found me in a mining ship with a inty. So, I turned the tables on him and logged. He screamed bloody murder on these very forums that I cheated. Yet, I learned the tactic from him! LOL For the record, that is the only time I used the tactic myself. I wholly support using it on pilots that log. Otherwise, stay in the fight best you can.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.28 16:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Andrymeda For one, this is not cheating. It is a dubious tactic at best and there are so many grey areas in which one cannot put a simple rule to state if its cheating. From a capital ship attacking a frig (like that is going to happen 1v1), to two equally matched compatants, logging in and out is part of the game! Vladimir Kramnik and Veselin Topalov battled for the world championship Chess title in the FIDE World Chess Championship 2006. If "logging out" (i.e. running away from a match) was allowed and resulted in a draw as in EVE, the championship would have ended in a draw. Each player would have quit the turn before checkmate. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.28 16:18:00 - [23] if its a good close range fight(ie you can atleast shoot back) then logging out is bad. against that sniper 200km away its no less chicken then the guy 200km away.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.28 16:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker if its a good close range fight(ie you can atleast shoot back) then logging out is bad. against that sniper 200km away its no less chicken then the guy 200km away. Against a sniper 200km away its the exact same thing as warping, so there's really no obvious issue with it to begin with. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.28 16:27:00 - [25] Logging out in a fight or to directly avoid one is always wrong. Why ? Because this is a competition. A competition with set boundaries and rules. Those rules do not include your right to end any bout of competing at a point of your choice to avoid losing it, unless you are able to do so due to using the game mechanics to your advantage. Ctrl-Q is NOT a game mechanic. Old blog
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.28 16:32:00 - [26] Edited by: Plutoinum on 28/10/2006 16:32:07 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker if its a good close range fight(ie you can atleast shoot back) then logging out is bad. against that sniper 200km away its no less chicken then the guy 200km away. Against a sniper 200km away its the exact same thing as warping, so there's really no obvious issue with it to begin with. So many people don't see the difference, what's supposed to be part of the game and what not and discussion doesn't help. They'll just use any means they like to their advantage with their own morale. It's really time to swing the nerfbat on the tactics that are not supposed to be part of the game. I don't care if it hurts a bit. Don't care, if I lose a few percent more due to cdts than before. Just push it through and clean up !
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.28 16:43:00 - [27] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/10/2006 16:43:36 bah double post, laggy internet -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Dogged	Posted - 2006.10.29 01:18:00 - [28] I dont understand, how could u possibly log out to save your ship from destruction. After you log out, doesnt your ship take awhile to try to align for warp then go 1au? How would that make any difference from the player warping out himself?
Jordon Spikes	Posted - 2006.10.29 01:22:00 - [29] logging out in pvp = bad walking into a gate camp and logging = acceptable thats the way i see it.
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.29 01:40:00 - [30] Edited by: Tyler Lowe on 29/10/2006 01:40:45 Originally by: Jordon Spikes logging out in pvp = bad walking into a gate camp and logging = acceptable thats the way i see it. I think self interest may be clouding your moral compass a bit there. Here's the way I see it. There is an in game mechanic that allows you to warp out of dangerous situations called a warp core stabilizer. There are other in game mechanics that prevent those from working, namely interdiction spheres and warp scramblers/disruptors. Using the in game mechanics is within the framework of what is intended. Circumventing an intended function of an in game mechanic, such as a dictor sphere or warp scrambler, through use of a device outside of the game (unplugging your connection for example) or an unintended use of an in game feature (logging off) is what I like to call an exploit, which is otherwise known as cheating. The circumstances under which you make the decision to cheat don't influence whether or not your action was dishonest. You may feel justified in taking the action, but it does not make that action less dishonest. If you play a game without integrity, any accomplishments you may achieve in game are meaningless. If you can't be honest when the only thing at stake is an organized collection of pixels, I'd call that a problem. edit for spelling J.A.F.O.

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