Geez ! It's PVE = totaly predictible ! There is no risk when you can anticipate it.



Yup. If not, the prices will sky rocket.



That's i call trolling !

Incursions should be in low/null sec !

Why ?

isks making without risk = inflation

high isks/hour in empire = less pve'ers in low/null/wh

Like Lvl5 missions, the incursions should be moved in a more dangerous place.

That's all.

Of course not. I would love having them. Anyway, in Eve, inflation occurs when Isks pump is far supperior to isk sink. Incursion is a BIG isk pump, runned by far too many people without leading to isk sink.

No. Moon goo and Sanctums should be moved to highsec.

Stop being such an obvious highsec noob/baddie/troll.

You do realize that FW takes place in low sec, correct? Not nullsec. Nullsec is broken. Luckily for you the income you achieve there blows in proportion to highsec, so you can continue to run incursions comfortable in the fact that you're making game breaking levels of isk with effectively zero risk.

You're making yourself look clueless. Stop for your own good.

News flash!

CCP has added in a huge isk sink into PI today with the release of the Crucible expantion in the form of Export/Import taxs.

How ever don't look to this isk sink to help keep your cost of Tech 2 or anything alse that req. PI or a POS running down. This isk sink cost will be pasted right along to the consumer.

In other unrelated storys today Kurogauna ran all the low sec level 5 missioners off for the time being and realy needs some soft targets to shot at and back to you Bob?

Dear God, did your father take the rope knot out of your mouth?

Its not a "huge" isk sink.
And btw most incursion bears dont do industry.

The fact of the matter is. The more risk involved, the more potential payout.
Incursions break this rule.
Not only should they be worth much less in highsec, and a little less in lowsec, but farming an incursion should produce diminishing returns.
Farming them is the actual isk pump, if CCP encouraged ppl to finish the inucursions, then the logistics might justify the reward

The PI tax change, POCOs and fuel blocks hurt corps and alliances that.... you know.... dont always live in highsec. AKA Lowsec, Nullsec and wormholes. You can do research at a station too.

On the note of level 5's they have a lot of risk involved for a variable income rate. Blitzing one level 5 in a nighthawk and carrier nets 90k LP, however, i can be hotdroped by supers at any moment, or ganked, or killed, and podded.

As a final note, someone must have just ran over your dog and killed your family for you to have the level of anger, hatred, madness and rage-fogged sight and thought to post as you have.

Any one that do's High sec PI can see you don't. Or your just a PI miner. The PI tax is a fairly good sized one. It had to be to cover the cost of player owned POCO's.

High Sec Incursions do not break the risk/payout rule. Both Low Sec and Null Sec pay better. But they did put the Faction SC BP in low sec. I dont know why but they did. I think it should be in Null Sec for the guys that should be using it. But that's just me.

Farming is done on every NPC in the game no reason Incursions should not be the same way other then a few people thinking they should not.

I have a few POS's myself too. I can promise you your Tech 2 everything is going to raise. Back stock as to be worked though at all levels first but they will raise. PI hit everyone and not just Low sec/Null sec/WH. Taxs always get passed onto the consumer.

I use to run level 5's in High sec. I like to think if I had to pick ether level 5's or Incursions I would pick Incursions every time. How ever it's always a shame and a wast for Dev's to put in NPC content and have it so at odds between the NPC enviroment and the World enviroment. As this kinds of NPC content are omost always used by only a very small % of the player base and most others avoid it. Making it poorly used NPC content all the way around.

If you want to know why Incursions are never going to leave high sec follow this instructions.

1.) Log into game.
2.) Hit F10
3.) Select the Stars tab on your World Map Control Panel
4.) Open the Statistics folder
5.) Select the Average Pilots in Space in the Last 30 Minutes

You can do this anytime of day or night but you will always see the same thing day after day week after week month after month and year after year. Most of the player are in High sec.

But thats only Pilots in Space in the Last 30 Minutes.

So the other option is that there are more low sec null sec pilots but they live there lives Docked up?

As for nerfing the Incursion payouts they will only do that when they want all thoughs people to ether quit or go back to level 4's. So probly not anytime soon.

As a final note here you did not just fall out the Capt. Oblivious tree and hit a few branchs on the way down you got gang banged by the hole f*cking forest.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWfs1QqKfZU

always seems like 1 step forward 2 steps back with CCP

First improve anomalies to tempt people to come to 0.0

Then nerf them and introduce high sec incursions which make more isk per hour than running anomalies in most 0.0 .....

[quote=Arazel Chainfire]
Team play or solo has nothing to do with being an mmo. MMO is really the opposite of pve. In a perfect mmo your enviorenment would be totally determined by other human players not a computer ai. Whether you experience that enviornment in a team or solo is irrelevant.

Ok I stopped reading at page 4... so forgive me if this is already covered.

Yes incursions are a large isk faucet, however every set of numbers is missing some large factors. as to how much isk that is

the average incursion fleet will stay together for about 3 hours in my experience from the first site.

Prior to this it will spend ~1 hour forming up at 0 isk and assuming an average fleet (not the fully pimped out ones you are talking about being the normal, because they are not) you will then earn ~60mil per hour,

This then creates an average of just 45mil per hour. before any costs (ammo) and the LP sink (either in the concord lp store or convered LP)

Now for a top end fleet lets say your being picky about what ships your bringing, it will take longer to form the fleet so 1.5 hours. then 3 hours of farming at 100mil/hour, netting you an average of 66 mil per hour. again before ammo and LP costs.

So your all over estimating the actual income most incursions runners will actually earn (and yes I can back this with wallet logs.)

now the next most common problem is people saying "I can earn more in high sec then null sec", this is simply not true.

compare apples with apples, cosmic anomaly's in high to null... null earns more, incursions in null to incursions in high sec... yep you earn more, big shock there. So please don't bother comparing your chosen isk earner with any other sanctums =/= incursions, and they never will

This is a horribly inaccurate statement, I can agree with the Team/Solo play part, but PVE/PVP has nothing at all to do witha game being a Massively Multiplayer Online game, all that is required to be a Massively Multiplayer Online game is the capability to support hundreds+ of players in a persistent world, be it with one or multiple shards, whether the game is based around Players VS the Environment or Players VS Players does not enter as a factor what-so-ever into a game being an MMO.

While YOUR perfect MMO may be totally determined by other human players and not a computer ai, that is by no means what an MMO is.

Edit: Changed 'what-so-into' to 'what-so-ever into'

While this may be true for some sporadic ppl with really no communication or organization.
There are missioning corps.
Why not Incursion corps.
Fleets take less than 30 mins, that is standard, if you are in a decent group.

Almost every isk activity involves using ammo.

You can find a Pithum A Type Medium Shield booster in null.
you can find crap in highsec.

You can find a revenant bpc, if you get lucky, and dont die, and have an alliance to support your group in getting the sites.
You can make risk free isk with not much cordination, and lowtech enough to even bot.

Just because you can do math does not mean it adds up

100M/hour is only for the few pimp fleets.

I like to cry and I want to steal from carebears because they get paid too much and IT'S NOT FAIR!!!

100M/hour is only for the few pimp fleets.

In an vanguard system there's only room for 2 fleets making top isk/hour. All others will make dramatically less. There are 2-3 incursions up. Average of 3 vg systems. So at any one time there's Maybe 200 players making top isk, probably less. So what are we talking about?

Last but not least, if you don't like it: get some others and shoot the mom and shut uo if you just cry on the forums.

GÇ£high isks/hour in empire = less pve'ers in low/null/whGÇ¥

Besides, the people who complain about this are the same ones who complained about level 4 missions for so many years. Look at the bright side CCP did something about your complaints.

Lvl 5s pay around the same as incursions if you use your LP properly (or it did last I ran them, from what I hear LP is not worth what it used to be, but that's a problem with the stores and the availability of tags, which DO need fixing). There isn't really anything wrong with that IMO (not that I would object to buffing low and null, CCP nerfing most of nullsec space was hilariously stupid and probably has more of an impact on all this whining than the incursions themselves), since you have to factor in that incursions being as profitable as they are is not only the work of a handful of bears working together to earn more isk, but a community sporting thousands of people. Hell, it only takes 50 or so pilots to ruin incursions for everyone else. What's really funny is that incursions are better balanced than pretty much anything else in the game when it comes to high/lowsec. You want 300+mil/hour?
15mil a site in lowsec
20 sites an hour (no competition + zealot/t3 fleet)
Done.
You only need 14 or so an hour to break 200m/h, or one every 4.5 minutes, which is easily doable by a top notch team (the kind people whining seem to think make up the entirety of incursion fleets).

You could argue that the numbers are a bit on the high side, but the fact is that incursions pay out 43% more in low/null than they do in highsec, which is a better rate than most other isk making activities.

The one thing I would argue for though is that the site tiers need to be better balanced. HQs/assaults should get a buff to their payouts (not a big one mind you) and vanguards should get a nerf to theirs. (also it would be nice to have a sov upgrade that draws in incursions)