EVE Search - Dev Hellmar's "Source of the Megacyte Shortage", I'm sorry?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Dev Hellmar's "Source of the Megacyte Shortage", I'm sorry?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 20:30:00 - [1] Quote: Hellmar: The megacyte shortage can be attributed to the fact that you can mine unattended with a cruiser or battleship in >0.5 space at no risk. By that method and with the guaranteed prices of the NPCÆs, you can make very high profits with absolutely no danger. While this is the case, there is no incentive for people to group up and go mining precious ore in 0.0 space. We will now address this issue from both ends, eliminating the risk-free part of mining in a large ship in Empire space and the continuous reseeding of the market will allow for greater player control of mineral prices and fluctuations of value in general. This will force the afk battleship miners out of Empire space and into 0.0, bringing in a lot more mecacyte and zydrine. Am I the only one who sees the problem with this "solution?" If the Megacyte shortage is caused by the fact that more money can be made mining in Empire space, wouldn't the solution be to make mining Megacyte more attractive instead of simply nerfing Empire mining and "forcing" people to go after rare Ore? If his claim is a "lack of incentive" to go after Megacyte, wouldn't the logical solution be to ADD AN INCENTIVE such as higher profit margins, lower risk (how about fixing JIP camping?), etc. Instead the approach is "Nobody is doing it, so we'll make everything else LESS profitable and fun until they HAVE to do it." Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Faramir	Posted - 2003.11.05 20:39:00 - [2] In my opinion the problem is not many ppl want to make a 30 jump round trip for megacyte....
Savage Lee	Posted - 2003.11.05 20:39:00 - [3] I think if maybe they upped the reward for the other roids instead of making them slower to mine. Because if you mine scor and say gneiss for 1 hour you make almost the same amount of money. Simply because scor mines faster and yeilds more ore. Yes you will make slightly more mining gneiss but its not enough to actually GO AND MINE IT. Unfortunatly the whole argument of Battleships mining high sec systems being the reason for the mega shortage is just plain funny. The roids that do produce mega well aren't there. And thats not because of ships mining veld and scor. Because well not even jasp makes mega... Unless the devs forgot they moved all the good roids to 0.0 Of course I am only 1 person with just 1 opinion. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mmmmm scordite.......
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 20:44:00 - [4] Quote: Because if you mine scor and say gneiss for 1 hour you make almost the same amount of money. Quote: In my opinion the problem is not many ppl want to make a 30 jump round trip for megacyte.... Precisely! These two things combined are the REAL source of the Megacyte shortage. Hellmar is just scapegoating Empire mining when they true problem is lack of content and imbalanced Market economy. If it were more profitable to mine Megacyte, or if it weren't so bloody BORING making the necessary 60+ jumps per day to do so, then people would do it. So, instead of fixing THESE problems Hellmar wants to nerf Empire mining and force miners into doing something which is even more tedious than chewing Scordite in 0.9. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Deadflip2	Posted - 2003.11.05 20:49:00 - [5] i cant believe people have so little dimension, the reson mega isnt mined much anymore is becouse a. all the systems have a lot of human pirates b. the respawn is ****** c. for descent betls and not many human pirates you're looking at a jump or 15+... --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2003.11.05 20:57:00 - [6] Doesn't seem to have occurred to anybody else here that cutting the profit from high-sec mining is exactly the same as raising the profit from low-sec mining. What's your gripe, exactly? _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Nostradamu5	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:19:00 - [7] Since CONCORD protects empire space, then when large amounts of ore are presented to be processed within the confines of .5 and higher space Concord should get a cut of the gross mineral, pre-waste; ie. .5 space 17%; .6 21%; .7 29%; .8 35%; .9 45% 1.0 75%. Why yes looks alot like taxes, we can even name them income taxes. Of course there would be a daily limit for each miner and corp to process inside empire space, and this could fuel a new black market, where you pay some noob to process mineral for you, or us lazy non-miner types. Or haul your ore down to .4 or lower sectors. The Devs could create a new player controlled arm of CONCORD..hmmm lets call it the EVE EPA/IRS who would have the power to fine individuals suspected of attempting to circumvent the mining tax, maybe confiscate "the tools of their trade". If you like the Idea I'm sure I convince my corp to serve as the first administrators, plus we have such a great name: everytime we come into a sector, WTF they're here to take our isk again. Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug! Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:27:00 - [8] Quote: Doesn't seem to have occurred to anybody else here that cutting the profit from high-sec mining is exactly the same as raising the profit from low-sec mining. It didn't occur to me because it's not the case. Not even close. The result of cutting profit from high security mining ventures will be drastically different than if low security mining were made more profitable or financially viable. For one thing, there are plenty of middle-tier Corporations in EVE who can make a reasonable showing by running Empire mining operations and producing mid-range equipment, ships and ammo - but don't have the active playerbase to undertake large, successful 0.0 mining operations. What will happen to these corporations when Empire mining is ganked? They will tank, because there will no longer be a "middle ground" on which they can rest and build the power necessary to move ahead. Just more "black and white" solutions from CCP. It's either Frigate in 1.0, or off to 0.0 with you you dirty miner! On the flip side, increasing the profits and attractiveness of low security mining would improve the flow of cash for Corporations who are already capable of this, while encouraging ones that are "on the fence" to venture out sooner and try to strike it rich. The simple "long story short" of the issue is that positive changes to encourage players to take on more fun and interesting aspects of the game are much better and healthier than negative ones to "force" players into actions they aren't otherwise willing to take. If the DEV's approached every problem with this attitude, how many aspects of EVE would be "nerfed" to bring them into balance with other means of making money? Veruna Caseti Ishukone
PropanElgen	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:29:00 - [9] Edited by: PropanElgen on 05/11/2003 21:30:34 It's not surprising some devs are not in touch with their own game. Maybe they should try actually playing it. All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:37:00 - [10] Quote: you p(l)ayers are so cute i could shoot you all and hang you on the wall as a trophy. let CCP make ITS game and stop whining about it. \o/ LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
piij	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:37:00 - [11] you p(l)ayers are so cute i could shoot you all and hang you on the wall as a trophy. let CCP make ITS game and stop whining about it. - Care to watch moo dance? p.i.i.j
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:42:00 - [12] Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 05/11/2003 21:42:59 Quote: Quote: you p(l)ayers are so cute i could shoot you all and hang you on the wall as a trophy. let CCP make ITS game and stop whining about it. \o/ Do you want to jump on her or shall I? Or shall we let Jash have the honours? You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
MrPops	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:43:00 - [13] I agree, support and think in the same level with Veruna Caseti. You are looking at the issue broadly and you have presented level headed arguments to express your thoughts. "The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:51:00 - [14] Edited by: SUNchaser on 05/11/2003 21:52:55 If the dev's want to move large scope miners out of secure space all they have to do is slow the respawn rate in systems based on security rating. Thus 1.0 system would not respawn for a month. These aggresive statements suggesting future changes would only FORCE more players into the PK's lag traps(an obvious exploitation of an inherant weekness in the game mechanics) will not solve anything. It will only encourage more people to quit playing. Secondly even with 8 miner II's and 10 harvesters and all mining skills max'd out it's still a boring profession. It doesn't come down to security for most its economics. Before the rise in meg prices it was easy to make more isk mining common ores in the system you sold them in. Traveling 10-30 jumps one way to mine bist takes time and with the large volume of rare ores transporting to and fro takes a serious amount of time. When isk profit is determined based on isk/minute spent online going out to mine bist was a losing proposition(when all the time required is taken into account, mining and hauling time). Compound that with the "baby" roid problem, which forces more time to be spent to mine X amount of ore, and the economics of mining rares made little sense. Today throw in the fact that well organized PK's are present in every access to 0.0 space and it would be foolish to risk months of online time for a reward that is very small in comparison to the reward. IF more people would mine rares the prices for rare minerals would drop(like miner II PRODUCTION DID TO MINER II PRICES) and the reward would be even less. Currently with the limited amount of rares being mined, mining rares is a LUCRETIVE alternative to empire strip mining. Leave it alone and let the game play out. FIX THE BUGS!!!!! THAT WOULD BE A BIGGER IMPROVEMENT IN THE GAME!!!!!
Indigo Seqi	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:53:00 - [15] Mining in safe space makes you such an incredible amount of money compared to the difficulty involved, it's downright rediculous. A small corp that's relatively dedicated to mining scordite can make tens of millions in a small amount of time. Upping the gains of mining in low sec space would be nice and all, but it would still allow every avarage Joe to make a gazillion without breaking a sweat in empire space. I fully support Hellmar on this.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:55:00 - [16] Quote: Doesn't seem to have occurred to anybody else here that cutting the profit from high-sec mining is exactly the same as raising the profit from low-sec mining. What's your gripe, exactly? NOOO BECAUSE IT TAKES MILLIONS OF LOW MINERALS TO BUILD A SHIP!!! YOU MAKE LOW ORE HARDER TO MINE WILL MEAN THE CRAP ORE IS MORE IN VALUE BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE EVERY BLUE PRINT IN EVE!! AND THEN WHAT IS THE POINT!! get a clue people, they need to fix the rare ore not nerf the cheap ore.. nerfing hte cheap ore will make it more RARE meaning harder to get, and you get more profit getting cheap ore anyway so why the hell would anyone then go to mine in zero sec? when you need more of cheap ore and it is harder to get but its easier to stay in empire space????? support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.11.05 21:55:00 - [17] Edited by: SUNchaser on 05/11/2003 21:57:19 try making tens of millions of dollars mining scor. If the boredom doesnt' kill you I'll hire Tank to do it. PS A very good point Dru. Enough half thought out changes by the devs's.
MrBinary	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:00:00 - [18] "The Devs could create a new player controlled arm of CONCORD..hmmm lets call it the EVE EPA/IRS who would have the power to fine individuals suspected of attempting to circumvent the mining tax, maybe confiscate "the tools of their trade"." C'mon mister! Try to remember that people pay their own money to play this game...you start adding player controlled tax doods that can take what you have...say goodbye to your players. Above all else, and aside from all these ongoing arguements about percieved balance issues in the game, the final result should always be the same...fun. Plain and simple. Re-read what you posted and ask yourself seriously, does that sounds like fun? I don't know about you, but I play the game by the rules presented to me, not by what another player wants me to do. It would be a cold day in hell when I allow another player affect the game I payed for, in such a material and negative way. And besides...who here would want to pay to play a game, where you were a tax man? It's a game people! Lets have some fun with it....leave the tax man back in reality. MrBinary "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
Drutort	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:02:00 - [19] the devs are obviously not looking at cheap ore vs rare ore AND AND I CANT SAY IT MORE THE PRODUCTION!!! what GOOD will it do to nerf the cheap ore!! if you need butt load of it build something!! what it has to be is the reward of the 2 and the AMOUNT YOU NEED on AVG to BUILD STUFF.. the ratio of % of cheap ore vs % of rare ore req to BUILD STUFF if you nerf the cheap ore just think what will happen!! you mine it all out right? oh good now you have a supper shortage for cheap ore, while you have already shortage for rare ore as it is rare... so what will happen? eve depression even more, and more people leaving hte game, less people PvP as it is harder to replease stuff... so what happens? simple game dies... does anyone else think that you also have to have risk/reward BUT ALSO HAVE FUN PART? or else ill just go back to RL!! what hell is wrong with you people. its a few factors and if they screw one or two without taking others into account YOU ARE SCREWED support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:02:00 - [20] Quote: Mining in safe space makes you such an incredible amount of money compared to the difficulty involved, it's downright rediculous. A small corp that's relatively dedicated to mining scordite can make tens of millions in a small amount of time. Upping the gains of mining in low sec space would be nice and all, but it would still allow every avarage Joe to make a gazillion without breaking a sweat in empire space. I fully support Hellmar on this. I'm with Indigo here. Laziness and catering to the lazy who wanted to AFK everything led to the security changes. If people want millions of isk per hour, they need to earn it. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Cormyat Astara	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:04:00 - [21] All you need to mine Bistot is one mining BS with Miner IIs, one BS escort, and haulers. Lots and lots of haulers.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:05:00 - [22] Quote: Quote: Mining in safe space makes you such an incredible amount of money compared to the difficulty involved, it's downright rediculous. A small corp that's relatively dedicated to mining scordite can make tens of millions in a small amount of time. Upping the gains of mining in low sec space would be nice and all, but it would still allow every avarage Joe to make a gazillion without breaking a sweat in empire space. I fully support Hellmar on this. I'm with Indigo here. Laziness and catering to the lazy who wanted to AFK everything led to the security changes. If people want millions of isk per hour, they need to earn it. YES BUT NOT AT THE COST OF FUN, and not at the cost of MAKING OTHER ** BE MORE tyer if that is a word LOL im quite sick of the dev's and there quick fixes, that over time fall apart so bad that people just leave the game. if this goes on you will not see me around and a number of other players, and then when you hit you, you will probably be playing with a very small # of players support Idea: QuickInfo** an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Dearth	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:07:00 - [23] Quote: Mining in safe space makes you such an incredible amount of money compared to the difficulty involved, it's downright rediculous. A small corp that's relatively dedicated to mining scordite can make tens of millions in a small amount of time. Upping the gains of mining in low sec space would be nice and all, but it would still allow every avarage Joe to make a gazillion without breaking a sweat in empire space. I fully support Hellmar on this. Quote by Indigo Seqi Space Invaders a Pirate Corp. We all know you Alpha Hotel's are foaming at the mouth about these changes. But I applaud you for being the first one to come out and actually admit it.
Aethelgrin	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:08:00 - [24] Quote: If the Megacyte shortage is caused by the fact that more money can be made mining in Empire space, wouldn't the solution be to make mining Megacyte more attractive instead of simply nerfing Empire mining and "forcing" people to go after rare Ore? If his claim is a "lack of incentive" to go after Megacyte, wouldn't the logical solution be to ADD AN INCENTIVE such as higher profit margins, lower risk (how about fixing JIP camping?), etc. If the problem is the lack of incentive to mine Megacyte, shouldn't we let the market self-correct? If mining Megacyte is too dangerous to be worth the return on the mining, wouldn't waiting until the shortage is acute push up the return enough to encourage the mining? Right now, Megacyte sells for what? 12K? If that's not incentive enough, how about when the price reaches 30K? Of course, there's a cap. At some point, it becomes cheaper to refine Megacyte out of NPC purchased goods rather than mine it. If the incentive can't swing far enough before that kicks in, the market will never correct itself. Which means more drastic measures, like those CCP is proposing, are likely warranted.
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:10:00 - [25] "if you nerf the cheap ore just think what will happen!!" ... Supply goes down, production goes down, prices go up, production actually becomes profitable, percentage of battleships in playerbase goes down... ... where is the bad part, exactly? o.O
Aethelgrin	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:19:00 - [26] Exactly right, j0sephine.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:19:00 - [27] Quote: if this goes on you will not see me around and a number of other players, and then when you hit you, you will probably be playing with a very small # of players First good news heard all day. You refuse to acknowledge the a balance between risk vs reward has to be maintained and that high sec mining of low end ores is out of balance. Similiar gratification of the "I want!" people have completely screwed the security mechanism. You refuse to acknowledge that nerfing the small portion of the game that is out of balance is better than boosting the rest of the game to its level, requiring the rebalancing of the entire game to compensate. You've pulled this scare tactic one time too many. The "I'll quit and a lot of others will quit with me!" routine. I hope they call your bluff. A big grown player like you quitting because you can't mine in diaper space. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Shill DeGruin	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:20:00 - [28] My god .... are CCP really this clueless at balancing their own game ? Talk about slitting your own throat. Why "fix" things that aren't a problem in the first place? What's the point in having higher security zones if they can't be utilised as safehavens ? I don't know .... sometimes I despair at their lack of insight into matters. Just get on with fixing the damn thing ....properly!
MrPops	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:23:00 - [29] Quote: diaper space. Hey! I coined that! Start paying me royalties "The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is." Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
Teeth	Posted - 2003.11.05 22:26:00 - [30] Veruna knows math. 100% agreed with original post. Higher end ores need to be have better yield so that the profit after all costs are considered (hauling, security, etc.) is higher (although riskier) in 0.0

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.