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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
HelpCorp United
Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.10.31 10:00:00 -
[31]
All I see happening are a bunch of people rushing out to create mods then try to sell them and undercut the competition.
Either one of three things will happen:
1) They will stick with their methods and continue to undercut until the price on uber t2 bpos is brought down
2) They will start manufacturing the items for themselves and the t2 prices will resurface to utterly stupid within a matter of weeks
3) The BPO holders will start to undercut the inventor's prices and then we have a real winner :D
Honestly, I see 2 turning into the most likely option. :\
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El Yatta
Caldari
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2006.10.31 11:27:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
All I see happening are a bunch of people rushing out to create mods then try to sell them and undercut the competition.
Either one of three things will happen:
1) They will stick with their methods and continue to undercut until the price on uber t2 bpos is brought down
2) They will start manufacturing the items for themselves and the t2 prices will resurface to utterly stupid within a matter of weeks
3) The BPO holders will start to undercut the inventor's prices and then we have a real winner :D
Honestly, I see 2 turning into the most likely option. :\
You are almost certainly right with no 2: I dont see invention crashing the high prices on HAC/cap2/crow/425/1400/cocd, and bring a magical new age of t2 for all, or any of that crap. What I do see it as, is a chance for smaller corps and alliances to do what the big ones already do - produce t2 for internal consumption to fuel their own war machines. The big ones need (and have) BPOs with (relatively) high efficiency (I dont know how far the aveage t2 bpo is researched but i am guessing ME5-8, the research times are prohibitive for further than 10) to churn out ships 24/7 for many hundreds or thousands of players, wheras a small corp with a dedicated logistics backbone (like most small combat corps that already make their own t1 ships, ammo, and have a logistics chain for buying t2 for the corp) can now do the same.
Yeah, their BPCs will be massively inefficient, but then they dont need them to be, as they will only need a few runs at a time and dont mind waiting abit longer for them to produce. The extra materials and component cost isnt a problem, as they're still saving several hundred % over the market!
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Corporate Ninj4
The Way
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Posted - 2006.10.31 12:01:00 -
[33]
Originally by: El Yatta
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
All I see happening are a bunch of people rushing out to create mods then try to sell them and undercut the competition.
Either one of three things will happen:
1) They will stick with their methods and continue to undercut until the price on uber t2 bpos is brought down
2) They will start manufacturing the items for themselves and the t2 prices will resurface to utterly stupid within a matter of weeks
3) The BPO holders will start to undercut the inventor's prices and then we have a real winner :D
Honestly, I see 2 turning into the most likely option. :\
You are almost certainly right with no 2: I dont see invention crashing the high prices on HAC/cap2/crow/425/1400/cocd, and bring a magical new age of t2 for all, or any of that crap. What I do see it as, is a chance for smaller corps and alliances to do what the big ones already do - produce t2 for internal consumption to fuel their own war machines. The big ones need (and have) BPOs with (relatively) high efficiency (I dont know how far the aveage t2 bpo is researched but i am guessing ME5-8, the research times are prohibitive for further than 10) to churn out ships 24/7 for many hundreds or thousands of players, wheras a small corp with a dedicated logistics backbone (like most small combat corps that already make their own t1 ships, ammo, and have a logistics chain for buying t2 for the corp) can now do the same.
Yeah, their BPCs will be massively inefficient, but then they dont need them to be, as they will only need a few runs at a time and dont mind waiting abit longer for them to produce. The extra materials and component cost isnt a problem, as they're still saving several hundred % over the market!
But your saying this won't lower prices of HAC's and such, and I say that it will, purely because this will reduce the demand of HAC's on the market. Prices are high purely for demand reasons. reduce demand = reduce price.
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"Caldari always warp twice" ~ Cmdr Sy |
Iyanah
Minmatar
Mining Munitions and Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.10.31 13:24:00 -
[34]
the producers and moon miners are part of alliances. perhaps the T2 producer is the only one utilising the moon's resources in a particular area, however if all his buddies can get in on the act too, there will be better utilisation of the existing resources. also, i can hardly immagine that every moon in 0.0 is currently being mined?
tech 2 prices will drop as supply increases to meet demand.
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Iy |
Ztrain
Vanguard Frontiers
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.03 10:08:00 -
[35]
I dunno for the last few day's been looking at the Cov Ops cloaks at 75mil and muttering now I'm starting to see why gold mining ops are so prevalent in this game. Two evenings of sitting in belts dragging ore icons back and forth, or slapping down 30 minutes of RL pay to get to afford two cloaks and spend several evenings out PvPing..... Another game I used to play called Magic Online you'd spend real money to buy your packs of cards (ships and mods). Then there were also tickets that were like virtual dollars (10 million ISK). I'm wondering if the current trend of inflation continues and invention does not bring prices and availability down for people wanting core components to their gaming such as cov ops cloaks, I can see many turning to these methods continue playing the game. Some may be able to get buy with selling time codes but when that market is saturated people will probably turn to other markets. Some will get caught and banned others not. But if it does come to that point is the game really even worth playing. I've spent easily over $2,000 in Magic Card investments and could easily plop down that much for this game. But in a PvP game it's not really a sound investment and not really worth it.
So we'll see how Invention works out. Worst case, there are a ton of other great MMOs that don't artificially lock players out of game content like CCP does with the T2 market.
In your safespot killin your doods! |
Cyrio
Amarr
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.11.03 14:48:00 -
[36]
I know personally I am using invention for my own personal needs. I am not out to undercut any producers or anything like that.
The biggest thing I'm worried about for invention is the exploration and farming you need to do. I have feeling those places will be camped 23/7 even if they do make them move around. I really hope I am wrong about that as I am looking forward to exploration.
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I got nothing |
Gindar
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.03 18:09:00 -
[37]
for invention, if we can get a tech2 bpc that is for a hac for example, how many runs would it be? 1? the devs said no matter what, your chances of managing to get a bpc are hard.
this means research agents will be needed. and lots of them! 
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Feyd Darkholme
Caldari
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.03 19:36:00 -
[38]
The bottleneck in T2 production atm is pretty obviously at the end producers who hold the BPOs. I don't think that, except perhaps in the first month or two after Kali is released, the BPCs will relieve this bottleneck totally. When it finally does equalize it will likely be better, but not because people are selling more T2 items from invented BPCs. I would bet that a good 75% of inventors will be using the T2 BPCs they are lucky enough to make for personal or corp/alliance use. This of course will lower the demand for T2 items, but by how much and whether it will have a notable effect on T2 prices remains to be seen. Not to mention we don't know how many people are going to be willing to take themselves out of the T2 BPO lottery by using RPs for invention.
I also don't know what effect this will have on production costs (moon mineral products) either, since higher demand usually lowers prices. Of course if supply of these moon products stays the same and demand from T2 end producers rises (becuase of invented T2 BPCs), it would raise prices across the board. Then of course there is the factor of added moons in the new systems, which may or may not effect the availability of moon minerals... All in all I think there are too many variables to accurately gauge what's going to happen exactly. We're just going to have to wait and see what it's like a few months after Kali comes out.
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Ztrain
Vanguard Frontiers
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.04 10:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Feyd Darkholme
Not to mention we don't know how many people are going to be willing to take themselves out of the T2 BPO lottery by using RPs for invention.
I also don't know what effect this will have on production costs (moon mineral products) either, since higher demand usually lowers prices. Of course if supply of these moon products stays the same and demand from T2 end producers rises (because of invented T2 BPCs), it would raise prices across the board. Then of course there is the factor of added moons in the new systems, which may or may not effect the availability of moon minerals... All in all I think there are too many variables to accurately gauge what's going to happen exactly. We're just going to have to wait and see what it's like a few months after Kali comes out.
Well like for myself who is still working on the skills to get a research agent it is a no brainer. I don't have anywhere near enough points to compete in the lottery anyways. So I'll basically be spending the points as they are generated on the components for invention. Basically 3 main area's, Amarr Recons, Amarr HACs, and Cloaking devices.
Fortunately with the Tech 1 cloaks seeded on the test server it looks like we'll be able to invent the cloaks! On of the other posters was talking about how it'll be a big gamble which cloak you get. Not really at all. 50/50 chance means you'll get over time roughly equal. You just build the improved cloaks and when you get the BPCs you'll have them available for making the cov ops ones. Should work out very nicely. I will not be buying any further cov ops cloaks till after invention is released nor any of the other ships I'm looking at inventing. Why buy them when you can make them yourself for much cheaper. Those particular ships aren't lost a lot either so even if you only manage to make 1 or 2 a month for yourself you shouldn't have to purchase any from 3rd parties.
Z
In your safespot killin your doods! |
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