| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Cez
   |
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:49:00 -
[1]
Many vets can remember when prices of minerals were 1,4,16,64,264... I don't mind the free market and the flucuating of prices. However, patch after patch we have expanded Eve... more blueprints... more players... more minerals required... bigger and better things to build... and with Kali, we'll be expanding even more. Do you think to counter the expansion of Eve, we should counter with more materials that help build Eve?
I ask you this? The minerals are becoming rarer and rarer. Where's the mineral boost? Where's the roid belt boost? ... The new regions in Kali won't play a huge role. I'm talking about the common ores/minerals in Empire. Prices have gone up and up... there's hardly ever a drop anymore. Why not boost the refines? Add more roids at belts? Add more belts? Increase the grow rate?
Just a thought... from someone watching nox go well over 500 now and in some areas reaching 600!
Like it or not, I think something eventually needs to be done.
|
Ralara
Caldari
Reunited
O X I D E
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:52:00 -
[2]
mine some roids then :)
refine it and sell it. Flood the market and bring the average price down :)
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:53:00 -
[3]
Umm.. eight new regions coming in Kali (if I remember correctly)? That's not enough minerals for you? :)
Warp Drive Active | EVE: Nature Vraie |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:54:00 -
[4]
I see this as a positive. Ship prices are too cheap in my opinion.
If I had my way minerals in low sec would be even more hazardous to get to. As for mining in empire, well It should be showing signs of being mined out. Perhaps this would lead to more low sec and 0.0 colonisation instead of 600+ in Jita
|
Glumpumpkin
House Elf Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:54:00 -
[5]
As minerals become more rare the incentive for people to abandon their safety to mine them for profit increases, keeping the supply of minerals constant. Keeping prices artificially low would only serve to eliminate that incentive, resulting in mineral shortages. It's a non-issue.
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:55:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Ralara
mine some roids then :)
refine it and sell it. Flood the market and bring the average price down :)
LMAO... good answer. But more work is not a fix... and to flood every region, is quite a huge task.
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Winterblink
Umm.. eight new regions coming in Kali (if I remember correctly)? That's not enough minerals for you? :)
Please read entire post before an unconstructive reply.
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Winterblink
Umm.. eight new regions coming in Kali (if I remember correctly)? That's not enough minerals for you? :)
Theres a shortage on roids? Hell no...
-----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 13:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Glumpumpkin
As minerals become more rare the incentive for people to abandon their safety to mine them for profit increases, keeping the supply of minerals constant. Keeping prices artificially low would only serve to eliminate that incentive, resulting in mineral shortages. It's a non-issue.
Keeping supply consistant only increases the price... wont ever make it come down. Maybe what we need is a small boost to refine amounts.
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Winterblink
Umm.. eight new regions coming in Kali (if I remember correctly)? That's not enough minerals for you? :)
Please read entire post before an unconstructive reply.
What was unconstructive? I'm flat out disagreeing that eight regions of ore will not solve your perceived problem. I don't have to agree with you for it to be considered constructive.
Perhaps if you indicated WHY those new regions won't help with what you think is a problem, it might help.
Warp Drive Active | EVE: Nature Vraie |
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
I see this as a positive. Ship prices are too cheap in my opinion.
If I had my way minerals in low sec would be even more hazardous to get to. As for mining in empire, well It should be showing signs of being mined out. Perhaps this would lead to more low sec and 0.0 colonisation instead of 600+ in Jita
Not everyone builds ships... I'm speaking of just the materials that are the foundation of everything in Eve. Prices have gone up up up... which is mainly due to the rich buyers who can build capital and t2 for larger profits... high prices dont hurt them as much as a t1 builder.
|
Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:03:00 -
[12]
Do the decent thing and setup an alt char for 23/7 afk dreadnought veld mining. If enough people do this for the sake of the community, prices will come down :)
Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn |
Mesuno
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:03:00 -
[13]
There really isn't a shortage of roids.
Yes some high sec empire systems get mined out regularly but simply moving to less busy areas will often find you stuffed belts. Moving to quiet low sec or 0.0 and you often get the impression no one has ever mined there at all. Yes it requires some more logistics to support, and the risk increases, but so does the reward.
Eve market is a constantly shifting equilibrium between shifting supply and demand. Artificially changing the supply of minerals by changing mining yields, roid respawns or loot refining yields really will do nothing but give that equilibrium a jolt and possibly destabilise supply. What miner will carry on mining if their reward is reduced by a sharp price drop?
|
|
Oveur
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cez
Many vets can remember when prices of minerals were 1,4,16,64,264... I don't mind the free market and the flucuating of prices. However, patch after patch we have expanded Eve... more blueprints... more players... more minerals required... bigger and better things to build... and with Kali, we'll be expanding even more. Do you think to counter the expansion of Eve, we should counter with more materials that help build Eve?
I ask you this? The minerals are becoming rarer and rarer. Where's the mineral boost? Where's the roid belt boost? ... The new regions in Kali won't play a huge role. I'm talking about the common ores/minerals in Empire. Prices have gone up and up... there's hardly ever a drop anymore. Why not boost the refines? Add more roids at belts? Add more belts? Increase the grow rate?
Just a thought... from someone watching nox go well over 500 now and in some areas reaching 600!
Like it or not, I think something eventually needs to be done.
I'm looking at averages for the last 6 months and Nocx averages are pretty consistent. The average of Nocxium went from 420 to 480 though within this month. Other than that, just above 400. I think you should shop around more 
And even if it had gone to 600, we wouldn't have done anything, this is beauty of the economy.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
|
|
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Glumpumpkin
As minerals become more rare the incentive for people to abandon their safety to mine them for profit increases, keeping the supply of minerals constant. Keeping prices artificially low would only serve to eliminate that incentive, resulting in mineral shortages. It's a non-issue.
Keeping supply consistant only increases the price... wont ever make it come down. Maybe what we need is a small boost to refine amounts.
Go to 0.0 and see the wonders of the vast chunks of low end roids there. They never get mined....why? Because the price the minerals go for doesn't make it worthwhile yet.
If low end min prices rise, then maybe the low ends in 0.0 will be sucked up. As it stands, there is a massive amount of untapped resources out there, but the averagejoe doesn't want to bother going out and getting it.
Don't screw with the market because people are lazy.
....it's great hi-jacking a meme isn't it?
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Winterblink
Umm.. eight new regions coming in Kali (if I remember correctly)? That's not enough minerals for you? :)
Please read entire post before an unconstructive reply.
What was unconstructive? I'm flat out disagreeing that eight regions of ore will not solve your perceived problem. I don't have to agree with you for it to be considered constructive.
Perhaps if you indicated WHY those new regions won't help with what you think is a problem, it might help.
Because they are 0.0 regions... most of what is mined out there is produced out there. And like I said, it won't play a huge role. If you think they are magical regions and prices will drop, then explain YOUR reasons.
|
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cez
Because they are 0.0 regions... most of what is mined out there is produced out there. And like I said, it won't play a huge role. If you think they are magical regions and prices will drop, then explain YOUR reasons.
Nothing is stopping you going there and mining it.
....it's great hi-jacking a meme isn't it?
|
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Oveur
And even if it had gone to 600, we wouldn't have done anything, this is beauty of the economy.
Oveur delivers. 
---------
It's great being a Caldari, ain't it?
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Caleb Paine
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:08:00 -
[19]
Yup, due to those prices people will start to do more trading and hauling. In the end the only thing stopping prices from rising is when the customers come to their senses and refuse to buy overpriced products. Until that time the middleman is going to be rich.
--------------------------------
ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest. |
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Many vets can remember when prices of minerals were 1,4,16,64,264... I don't mind the free market and the flucuating of prices. However, patch after patch we have expanded Eve... more blueprints... more players... more minerals required... bigger and better things to build... and with Kali, we'll be expanding even more. Do you think to counter the expansion of Eve, we should counter with more materials that help build Eve?
I ask you this? The minerals are becoming rarer and rarer. Where's the mineral boost? Where's the roid belt boost? ... The new regions in Kali won't play a huge role. I'm talking about the common ores/minerals in Empire. Prices have gone up and up... there's hardly ever a drop anymore. Why not boost the refines? Add more roids at belts? Add more belts? Increase the grow rate?
Just a thought... from someone watching nox go well over 500 now and in some areas reaching 600!
Like it or not, I think something eventually needs to be done.
I'm looking at averages for the last 6 months and Nocx averages are pretty consistent. The average of Nocxium went from 420 to 480 though within this month. Other than that, just above 400. I think you should shop around more
And even if it had gone to 600, we wouldn't have done anything, this is beauty of the economy.
Ahhh... a dev response 
Is it okay if I disagree with you, since you can prolly check all regions prices with a click of a button... however, players don't have that ability.
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down? I love the beauty of the economy, but when you keep adding more things to produce, it only makes sense to add more of what you need to produce... or you're just tending to the rich who can afford the higher prices and make bigger profits.
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cez
Because they are 0.0 regions... most of what is mined out there is produced out there. And like I said, it won't play a huge role. If you think they are magical regions and prices will drop, then explain YOUR reasons.
So your issue is that you actually have to take yourself somewhere and mine the minerals, risking the loss of your ship and gear for the minerals you want?
I never suggested they're magical regions and prices will drop. I don't think there's an issue in the first place. That's a major part of the reason I disagree with you that there is a problem at all. :)
If it's too expensive for you to buy them, go mine them yourself. Sell some even, the high prices will net you a nice profit.
Warp Drive Active | EVE: Nature Vraie |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:14:00 -
[22]
The price of minerals used to be fixed by NPC orders. Now it's fixed by a maximum based on the insurance cost of ships and by the price of refinable NPC-sold goods. The price of that maximum is a lot higher than minerals used to be worth, about three times as high as the old base prices.
The real problem is that megacyte isn't used as much as zydrine in production, so supply vastly exceeds demand. You'll notice that at times, zydrine is actually worth MORE than megacyte. That is some really messed up stuff there. The base NPC prices put its worth at double what zyd is worth.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:15:00 -
[23]
I just team up with Alkimedes, mine some Veldspar, turn it into Omber and refine it - sell Iso, buy Nocx.
EVE-Files | EVE-Search | Monitor this Thread |
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Winterblink
If it's too expensive for you to buy them, go mine them yourself. Sell some even, the high prices will net you a nice profit.
This isn't a personal issue on what I can and can't do.
|
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cez
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down? I love the beauty of the economy, but when you keep adding more things to produce, it only makes sense to add more of what you need to produce... or you're just tending to the rich who can afford the higher prices and make bigger profits.
Did you manage to miss 1/2 the posts in this thread?
Theres an overabundance of minerals in 0.0 if you can be arsed going to get them. If you want cheap minerals, go there, make yourself rich.
....it's great hi-jacking a meme isn't it?
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Winterblink
If it's too expensive for you to buy them, go mine them yourself. Sell some even, the high prices will net you a nice profit.
This isn't a personal issue on what I can and can't do.
Well that wasn't my intent to make it personal, and I'm not going to apologize for your taking it that way. You also avoided the point I was making entirely.
Oh well.
Warp Drive Active | EVE: Nature Vraie |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:20:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Winterblink
If it's too expensive for you to buy them, go mine them yourself. Sell some even, the high prices will net you a nice profit.
This isn't a personal issue on what I can and can't do.
No, you appear to be ranting about the lack of willingness of over players going about and tendering to your needs. If you cant be bothered doing it, why should anyone else?
....it's great hi-jacking a meme isn't it?
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: Cez
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down? I love the beauty of the economy, but when you keep adding more things to produce, it only makes sense to add more of what you need to produce... or you're just tending to the rich who can afford the higher prices and make bigger profits.
Did you manage to miss 1/2 the posts in this thread?
Theres an overabundance of minerals in 0.0 if you can be arsed going to get them. If you want cheap minerals, go there, make yourself rich.
Again, not a personal issue with my abilities to go anywhere. We can see abundance of minerals doesn't make a difference since they have been there for the last 3 years and prices still are headed up Up UP. The common ores are what we need more of... and in Empire. Either by boosting a bit of the refine to offset the loads of new bpos that have hit or are hitting market... or increase the grow rate... maybe make roids hitpoints increase by 50% so to speak... adding more ore from a roid.
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cez
Again, not a personal issue with my abilities to go anywhere. We can see abundance of minerals doesn't make a difference since they have been there for the last 3 years and prices still are headed up Up UP. The common ores are what we need more of... and in Empire. Either by boosting a bit of the refine to offset the loads of new bpos that have hit or are hitting market... or increase the grow rate... maybe make roids hitpoints increase by 50% so to speak... adding more ore from a roid.
The increase compared to three years ago is due to the removal of a artificial stabalising agent. There's still one in play but it only limits the prices to a maximum of about three times the old prices.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Winterblink
If it's too expensive for you to buy them, go mine them yourself. Sell some even, the high prices will net you a nice profit.
This isn't a personal issue on what I can and can't do.
No, you appear to be ranting about the lack of willingness of over players going about and tendering to your needs. If you cant be bothered doing it, why should anyone else?
LMAO... my needs to do what? and what am I not be bothered to do? and what am I doing that makes others not want to bother?
As far as I see, this has been a perfect debate aside from a few off topic replies that try to make this a personal issue with me. Its not... believe me.
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Cez
Again, not a personal issue with my abilities to go anywhere. We can see abundance of minerals doesn't make a difference since they have been there for the last 3 years and prices still are headed up Up UP. The common ores are what we need more of... and in Empire. Either by boosting a bit of the refine to offset the loads of new bpos that have hit or are hitting market... or increase the grow rate... maybe make roids hitpoints increase by 50% so to speak... adding more ore from a roid.
If it's not a personal issue with your ability to go anywhere, as you say, then why the focus on empire belts? If you're supposed to be making a point about minerals in the game as a whole, then the inclusion of 0.0 asteroids (current, and future additions in Kali) should more than cover off your concerns.
Where is the bulk of the market?
Where are the bulk of Eve players?
Where do the bulk of minerals come from?
Where do most have access to?
ANSWER: Empire
Sorry, but ranting "go to 0.0" is not a fix. You have yet to explain to me how THAT woould lower minerals prices. Oh, and try to put aside what I have to do... look at prices all over... and explain how 0.0 will lower that. Maybe if you can, I'll agree. But it sure hasn't lowered anything the last few years... and adding MORE bpos, won't help.
|
|
Oveur
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:39:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Stuff.
Stuff
Ahhh... a dev response
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down?
Isogen, Megacyte and Morphite for example.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
|
|
Aurel Senia
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:41:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Aurel Senia on 02/11/2006 14:42:39
Wait wait wait, first we have people whining that t2 goods (read: hacs) are too expensive....but now we have people crying that basic minerals are too?
Jesus. If you want to lower the prices, find some friends, mine veldspar to your hearts content, and sell it at 1 isk per unit. It won't actually do anything constructive, but I'm sure you could fool yourself easily enough - judging from your past reasoning.
If you don't understand the market works based on supply and demand, well, quite frankly, you need to go take an economics 101 course. People are willing and will remain willing to pay higher prices for low-end goods, if you flood the market with cheaper goods the price will go down.
Get those miners out and start chopping.
|
NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:42:00 -
[34]
It doesn't cost anything to mine your own stuff.
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
**** what happens to all those people whose self esteem doesnt depend on eve then?
Oh right, I'm asking in the wrong place
|
Anders Chydenius
Phoenix Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:43:00 -
[35]
LRN2ECON101
There's a reason I refer to Eve as "capitalism 101" when I'm trying to explain it to friends. That players control the price of minerals is one of the simplest yet most beautiful parts of Eve. If I see the price of a given mineral spike, I'm out there mining away. If the macro miners all die and prices adjust to compensate, that should finance a shiny new Raven to play in next time prices take a downswing.
Let me sum up: Working as Intended.
------
{o,o}
(__(|
-"-"-
EVEMon |
Acroporidae
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:43:00 -
[36]
Quote:
And even if it had gone to 600, we wouldn't have done anything, this is beauty of the economy.
This is why I started to play this game, I really like the economy model :)
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Stuff.
Stuff
Ahhh... a dev response
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down?
Isogen, Megacyte and Morphite for example.
Speaking of megacyte, any word on a potential fix for the problem of megacyte's scarce usage in production compared to its ample supply? Surely it's not meant to be worth less than zyd.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:46:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Cez
Sorry, but ranting "go to 0.0" is not a fix. You have yet to explain to me how THAT woould lower minerals prices.
If an industrial corp starts flooding the market with cheap mins mined from the fruit of 0.0 whey would make a killing. Undercut everyone else who is starving from the lack o minerals in empire and they will have to reduce their prices too.
High Supply = More Competition = Lower Prices.
....it's great hi-jacking a meme isn't it?
|
Etruscus
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:46:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Cez
Ahhh... a dev response
Is it okay if I disagree with you, since you can prolly check all regions prices with a click of a button... however, players don't have that ability.
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down? I love the beauty of the economy, but when you keep adding more things to produce, it only makes sense to add more of what you need to produce... or you're just tending to the rich who can afford the higher prices and make bigger profits.
Firstly, your wrong.
In the long run, there has never been any consistent trends in regards to mineral prices. Not very long ago Trit was at around 3 isk. My buy order of 20M isk filled today in Genesis at 2.00, in less then a day (not including downtime) which tells me my price was a wee bit too high.
Two, if prices of any mineral are trending up, more people will start mining instead of doing other things... like running missions, or pirating, or whatever. This new influx of minerals will serve to drive back down prices until an equilibrium is met.
As the missions runners et al leave their old profesions for mining the goods which the mission runners supplied to the markets will start to go up. After a certain period of time, when the aformentioned equilibrium is met an efficient amount of players will be running missions and mining depending on prices.
If an exogenous shock happens to the system, such as 8 new regions or higher demand for minerals for some reason, the entire economy, not just minerals, will be affected and this is almost entirly impossible to predict even if you have taken advanced linear algebra and modular arithmetic.
However, new blueprints being introduced probably won't affect demand for minerals in the "long run", thought their probably will be a short run spike in prices as everyone rushes to get that new shinny. When players demand a new ship, the demand "a" new ship. The relative amount of minerals demanded will be unaffected, or perhapes only slightly due to the increase in relative mineral costs for these ships.
Now, Kali could very well end up affecting mineral prices for the higher or the lower depending on how Kali affects player behavior. If Kali encourages to go out and blow each other up, this will increase the demand for minerals. If kali encourages carebearing, mineral prices will go down.
It is that simple. Brought to you by your friendly Economist. Have a nice day.
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cez
Where is the bulk of the market?
Where are the bulk of Eve players?
Where do the bulk of minerals come from?
Where do most have access to?
ANSWER: Empire
Sorry, but ranting "go to 0.0" is not a fix. You have yet to explain to me how THAT woould lower minerals prices. Oh, and try to put aside what I have to do... look at prices all over... and explain how 0.0 will lower that. Maybe if you can, I'll agree. But it sure hasn't lowered anything the last few years... and adding MORE bpos, won't help.
First: I'm not ranting, I'm discussing. There's a considerable difference between the two.
Second: There's a very simple concept which explains how markets can be worked to reduce or increase prices: supply and demand. I'm not being patronizing by saying that, it's a viable concept in life as well as in EVE. If you want prices to drop, increase supply. Decreasing demand is probably not as likely a solution in this case.
Third: (Theorizing) The most probable reason for not going the route of catering more to empire demand for minerals is probably because CCP would like more players to see the value of 0.0 space. High population using up all the resources? Go where the resources are.
(Note: I'm not telling you what to do, just pointing in a direction)
Warp Drive Active | EVE: Nature Vraie |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:46:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Cez
Again, not a personal issue with my abilities to go anywhere. We can see abundance of minerals doesn't make a difference since they have been there for the last 3 years and prices still are headed up Up UP. The common ores are what we need more of... and in Empire. Either by boosting a bit of the refine to offset the loads of new bpos that have hit or are hitting market... or increase the grow rate... maybe make roids hitpoints increase by 50% so to speak... adding more ore from a roid.
If it's not a personal issue with your ability to go anywhere, as you say, then why the focus on empire belts? If you're supposed to be making a point about minerals in the game as a whole, then the inclusion of 0.0 asteroids (current, and future additions in Kali) should more than cover off your concerns.
Where is the bulk of the market?
Where are the bulk of Eve players?
Where do the bulk of minerals come from?
Where do most have access to?
ANSWER: Empire
Sorry, but ranting "go to 0.0" is not a fix. You have yet to explain to me how THAT woould lower minerals prices. Oh, and try to put aside what I have to do... look at prices all over... and explain how 0.0 will lower that. Maybe if you can, I'll agree. But it sure hasn't lowered anything the last few years... and adding MORE bpos, won't help.
Ill take this one...
Buy cheap mins in 0.0 or low sec borderlands and Haul them to empire. Most low end mins in 0.0 would be off hauler spawns I would imagine (please correct me if im wrong). Getting 10mil trit is more of a bother to 0.0ers cose they couldnt be assed to waste the time hauling it when they could make that isk in 1hr of ratting.
Heres a lil trade secret. The Aridia region generally sells ore at about 30% less than the Domain region of the Amarr homeworlds. For a 12 jump trip you could load up a hauler (or freighter if you can get the escort) and haul in massive amounts of ore for cheap. Build with it, sell it watever. If the going price of trit in empire is say, 2.7 isk/u and you bought 10mil for .5isk or even 1 isk/u you could sell it for 1.8 and therefore be making a great profit. Do it enough times in a trade hub or say 4 jumps from a trade hub and suddenly the whole of Jita would be moving out to 0.5 borderlands to cash in on it.
Interestingly the same works in reverse for products. Most peeps are making huge amounts of isk in 0.0 but unless your corp has great production facilities and a library of bpo's products are in huge demand. I personally saw Iteron Mk3's going for 5-9 mill in Fountain 3 weeks ago. And they sold.
If you get lucky with a t2 bpo you have it made for 0.0
So leave the comfort of Jita and explore outside of 1.0 mate. I think the entire population of Aridia is about Jita in peek. Ours and Lum aint much better
|
Treebeard dk
M. Corp
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:47:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Stuff.
Stuff
Ahhh... a dev response
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down?
Isogen, Megacyte and Morphite for example.
Dammit Oveur, I was gonna say that, grrrrr 
|
Roshan longshot
Gallente
Order of the Arrow
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:47:00 -
[43]
Acck yet another "!" post cluttering up the forums.....
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 14:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Stuff.
Stuff
Ahhh... a dev response
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down?
Isogen, Megacyte and Morphite for example.
Ahh... you got me, market is fine. LOL. However, those atleast fluctuate... and 2/3rds are pretty rare... found only in 0.0... and not used much in production. You boost everything else... its a shame you can't even look into the pros and cons of boosting what holds your entire market together. This doesn't make much sense to someone who has everything at their disposal. Eve has a lot of trends, and this is one that (I'm sure even you can agree with) has only gone up. You have to look at why... how... and what causes that, in terms of what you add, how many more players there are now, and what has stayed the same. It doesnt boil down to free economy, when the adding, boosting, and nefing all around us comes from outside Eve resources.
|
Laythun
Undercover Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 15:10:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Laythun on 02/11/2006 15:10:04
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Stuff.
Stuff
Ahhh... a dev response
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down?
Isogen, Megacyte and Morphite for example.
Ahh... you got me, market is fine. LOL. However, those atleast fluctuate... and 2/3rds are pretty rare... found only in 0.0... and not used much in production. You boost everything else... its a shame you can't even look into the pros and cons of boosting what holds your entire market together. This doesn't make much sense to someone who has everything at their disposal. Eve has a lot of trends, and this is one that (I'm sure even you can agree with) has only gone up. You have to look at why... how... and what causes that, in terms of what you add, how many more players there are now, and what has stayed the same. It doesnt boil down to free economy, when the adding, boosting, and nefing all around us comes from outside Eve resources.
Its because as proven by Oveur and countless posters that is DOES NOT NEED BOOSTING.
**** your like sooo NOT reading any of the other posts, or you just fail to understand basic economics.
Hard headed is what we call u where im from, Ignant too
Undercover Brothers
It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö |
Pabs Sco
Caldari
Ecosse
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 15:14:00 -
[46]
As the CEO of a Manufacturing Corp, it is more diffecult to mine ore these days, unless your part of an allianc ein 0.0 space.
Even in low sec, asteroids belts are rare, due to all teh macro/farming of high sec systems.
We only buy the minerals that we can not mine (zydrine, megacyte), I hate to pay for minerals that we could have mined ourself, cheaply.
Icreasing the respwn yeild of roids would help. Sure there are plenty of ore in 0.0 but risking my corps barges in 0.0 for low end ore is pritty stupid.
------
My corp is looking to join a 0.0 Alliance!!
|
Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 15:14:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Vasiliyan on 02/11/2006 15:16:13
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Ralara
mine some roids then :)
refine it and sell it. Flood the market and bring the average price down :)
LMAO... good answer. But more work is not a fix... and to flood every region, is quite a huge task.
Laziness and forum whining is definitely not the fix either!
Lowsec mining isn't profitable enough to be worth the risk yet, but the price rise may pull more people into it. Oh and kudos to Oveur for understanding this and not intervening. I think there's a bit too much pandering to forum whining at the moment, which is making the whining worse..
|
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 15:23:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Pabs Sco
As the CEO of a Manufacturing Corp, it is more diffecult to mine ore these days, unless your part of an allianc ein 0.0 space.
Even in low sec, asteroids belts are rare, due to all teh macro/farming of high sec systems.
We only buy the minerals that we can not mine (zydrine, megacyte), I hate to pay for minerals that we could have mined ourself, cheaply.
Icreasing the respwn yeild of roids would help. Sure there are plenty of ore in 0.0 but risking my corps barges in 0.0 for low end ore is pritty stupid.
You probably wouldnt need to. There is alot of 0.0 low end mins already mined.
I really dont understand why people cant organise decent low sec mining? Am I just fortunate or extremely good? I normally mine low sec in a barge for hours if needed.
For example; I can basically mine approx 9mil worth of mins/hr in a retriever in a 0.2 system. This is solo mind you, hauling, clearing rats from belt, warping to ss if pie in local etc.
Im dying to get hold of a corp that does decent mining ops in low sec systems using a protective fleet of bc's and bs's. I would imagine the profit margin of hauling that back to empire for isk or using it to build bc's, or t2 ships would be enormous. Surely even if you got ganked by a pie, the loss of a couple of 10mil barges would be worth the ore recovered. That is, unless you were griefed every day.
Be smart, be organised, be careful. And when you find a corp that does this please let me know as I am looking!
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 15:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Many vets can remember when prices of minerals were 1,4,16,64,264... I don't mind the free market and the flucuating of prices. However, patch after patch we have expanded Eve... more blueprints... more players... more minerals required... bigger and better things to build... and with Kali, we'll be expanding even more. Do you think to counter the expansion of Eve, we should counter with more materials that help build Eve?
I ask you this? The minerals are becoming rarer and rarer. Where's the mineral boost? Where's the roid belt boost? ... The new regions in Kali won't play a huge role. I'm talking about the common ores/minerals in Empire. Prices have gone up and up... there's hardly ever a drop anymore. Why not boost the refines? Add more roids at belts? Add more belts? Increase the grow rate?
Just a thought... from someone watching nox go well over 500 now and in some areas reaching 600!
Like it or not, I think something eventually needs to be done.
I'm looking at averages for the last 6 months and Nocx averages are pretty consistent. The average of Nocxium went from 420 to 480 though within this month. Other than that, just above 400. I think you should shop around more
And even if it had gone to 600, we wouldn't have done anything, this is beauty of the economy.
Ahhh... a dev response
Is it okay if I disagree with you, since you can prolly check all regions prices with a click of a button... however, players don't have that ability.
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down? I love the beauty of the economy, but when you keep adding more things to produce, it only makes sense to add more of what you need to produce... or you're just tending to the rich who can afford the higher prices and make bigger profits.
Don't you get it? Its called supply and demand.
Rising prices give an incentive for more people to mine. Market therefore stabalises. Noxc goes up and down in price, but it always stables out in the end.
This is nothing new, or different, its just how the game is and how it will continue to be.
there is no problem
|
Uther Doull
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 15:31:00 -
[50]
the few times i take my ratting ship out for a spin i see veld roids big enough to build a titan :)
seriously, if your cosy empire system is swarmed with miners and there is nothing left for you, either declare and kick them out, or move to a less busy place....
it's not as if ccp is going to make the mins in empire limitless so they can have 5000 players in 3 systems and the rest empty... use your head :)
|
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 15:34:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Many vets can remember when prices of minerals were 1,4,16,64,264... I don't mind the free market and the flucuating of prices. However, patch after patch we have expanded Eve... more blueprints... more players... more minerals required... bigger and better things to build... and with Kali, we'll be expanding even more. Do you think to counter the expansion of Eve, we should counter with more materials that help build Eve?
I ask you this? The minerals are becoming rarer and rarer. Where's the mineral boost? Where's the roid belt boost? ... The new regions in Kali won't play a huge role. I'm talking about the common ores/minerals in Empire. Prices have gone up and up... there's hardly ever a drop anymore. Why not boost the refines? Add more roids at belts? Add more belts? Increase the grow rate?
Just a thought... from someone watching nox go well over 500 now and in some areas reaching 600!
Like it or not, I think something eventually needs to be done.
I'm looking at averages for the last 6 months and Nocx averages are pretty consistent. The average of Nocxium went from 420 to 480 though within this month. Other than that, just above 400. I think you should shop around more
And even if it had gone to 600, we wouldn't have done anything, this is beauty of the economy.
Ahhh... a dev response
Is it okay if I disagree with you, since you can prolly check all regions prices with a click of a button... however, players don't have that ability.
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down? I love the beauty of the economy, but when you keep adding more things to produce, it only makes sense to add more of what you need to produce... or you're just tending to the rich who can afford the higher prices and make bigger profits.
Don't you get it? Its called supply and demand.
Rising prices give an incentive for more people to mine. Market therefore stabalises. Noxc goes up and down in price, but it always stables out in the end.
This is nothing new, or different, its just how the game is and how it will continue to be.
there is no problem
Oh there is a problem. I think there is too much refined loot. Not enough people are out there using low sec IMHO. Nor are they contesting 0.0. There are great swaths of systems that are silent for most of the time. Yet we get people ore thieving in 0.5+. TBH I dont think I even go back into empire anymore except to sell off loot, mins or for production of ships etc.
I would really like to see the devs decrease the ore respawn rate in high sec. Maybe that would entice people away from the hubs a lil. Or possibly making loot refining less profitable/less loot drop.
A heavier reliance on player industry and away from npc loot is only a good thing in my opinion.
|
Etruscus
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 15:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cez
You have to look at why... how... and what causes that, in terms of what you add, how many more players there are now, and what has stayed the same. It doesnt boil down to free economy, when the adding, boosting, and nefing all around us comes from outside Eve resources.
Again, your still wrong. I love armchair economists.
For one, anything that affects the game, is by definition, within the game universe. The nerfing, adding, boosting, whatever those terms mean anyway, all affect the demand of certain products. As one item has less value people will substitute away from this item and consume more of the other item. Prices for the first good go down and prices for the second good go up. Overall less of the second good may be consumed due to the income affect created, but even that is debatable.
I see what your saying, but you are incorrect in your thinking. When a new oil deposit is discovered in France, that doesn't mean it is a new resource outside of world. It was always there. Or, more likely, when a new technology creates (allows for us) something which is inherently scarce, for example the electromagnetic spectrum, that doesn't mean it was introduced outside of world. Other examples are international time zones, flight lanes, fisheries, forests, etc.
Now, there is a very real problem with the electromagnetic spectrum and its economic implications, but that is not what this is about.
As far as I can tell you solution thus far has been "to add more roids" in some form or fashion to empire. ok. So, it seems to me your real complaint is not the high cost of minerals, but the lack of availability of roids in high sec space.
If the amount of roids in space was that scarce, so scarce where they always mined up immediatly (which is the case in some cases, but not all), ship builders would need to pay more for those minerals in order to get those minerals from other ship builders.
Another point, you have yet to describe why it is a bad thing that minerals do go up (and this is not the case anyway, but just for fun). You have yet to demonstrate that if the costs of minerals go up you, or anyone, are worse off because of it.
|
BoinKlasik
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:16:00 -
[53]
Fix Spud....nuff said
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries*
this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris
Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr!  ~kieron
Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler
The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
|
DuckM4n Vo
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:19:00 -
[54]
Its economics! Idiot! Supply and Demand, when demand increases and supply stays the same, the price levels will increase.
Btw. Why dont you want miners to benefit? Higher prices of ore mean higher profit for miners.
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:19:00 -
[55]
My point... and I'll make it again... has nothing to do with supply and demand. Its the addition of more production into the game along with the increasingly growing player base in realtion to what is already set in game. Also, considering the extreme profit margins of over priced t2, which enables rich people/corps to place these high buy orders and STILL retain a huge profit over small/new/amatuer t1 producers. Its a market that is tranding toward the rich vet and leaving new players with shattered dreams.
I can see a lot are very simple minded and centered in their ways. They can't debate what is good or bad for Eve without focusing on what ONE player needs to do or what they CAN or CAN'T do. Simply, omitting the wide player base as a whole.
It all boils down to economics, but this is a game. Balance is what everyone lusts for among all their ships, mods, and races. I see no reason why the devs can't consider a slight increase in refine yield to counter the every growing production and need for minerals. This isn't all about the in game market, its about a fair and reasonable balance to what has been added to the game over the years. Minerals will still be a free market based on supply and demand... no one is losing that. Its just a balance, like everything else we do.
|
Hap Hap
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:25:00 -
[56]
Hi all,
First off:
- I am a 0.0 miner with maxed mining skills.
- I make the majority of my income mining with some ratting when IÆm away from "home".
- My income supplements my pvp habit.
The price of low ends makes it entirely unappetising for me to mine them.
In my line of work its stupidly easy for myself and other miners to mine high ends ores and sell them to purchase low ends.
If those low end prices ever rise enough to warrant mining Ill mine but currently the profit margin on low end ores is smaller than ratting (per hour).
No increase in low end ore quantity will ever change the fact they are unprofitable. The only people who will mine low ends, are new pilots(donÆt know any better) or afk high sec miners who rely on concord.
Perhaps decreasing the profit margins on missions might get more people in high sec to change their minds but I doubt it.
,
Hap Hap
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:25:00 -
[57]
Originally by: DuckM4n Vo
Its economics! Idiot! Supply and Demand, when demand increases and supply stays the same, the price levels will increase.
Btw. Why dont you want miners to benefit? Higher prices of ore mean higher profit for miners.
read above... idiot.
|
Becham
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:43:00 -
[58]
If people are paying the price and buying all the inventory, then it is actually UNDER priced. Think about that.
|
Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:43:00 -
[59]
Argueing with exclamation marks is pointless.
You can try to reason with them, but they just get angry and the insults fly (as above).
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:54:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Etruscus
On the one hand you say it all boils down to economics, but on the other you say it has nothing to do with supply and demand? I wonder, what is your theory of supply and demand?
it has nothing to do with supply and demand in the game... its about balance of the economics with what is being done out of game. as in the adding of more production and bigger player base coming. balancing the mineral value to these factors will then affect the supply and demand in the game, balancing the trend of prices skyrocketing. If we didn't have all these fun new toys to build, i think our supply and refine amount would be fine, but in gaming terms, when you add more to build, the materials to build should also be boosted... otherwise its only tending to one side.
Quote:
You have yet to identify any problems, other then simply saying there is a problem out there. ok? So what. How can you possibly expect to have any sort of remedy to a problem and for it to be credible when you don't even know what the problem is.
Problems? How many fixes are coming with Kali that many are complaining aren't even a problem? But thats besides the point... How would you like to play a new version of Pac Man, but even though the stages are larger, more cherries, more ghosts... but you have the same amount of power ups and dots to eat? (simple analogy) LOL.
Quote:
We are not now, nor do I think we will be for some time to come, at the point where minerals are so rare where it is difficult to aquire them for any price.
Lastly, I am not going to bother addressing your ridiculous assertion about refining yields.
Explain why people now head to 0.0 to mine common ores? Explain why mining rare ores is not proitable at the moment. Don't you think heading to 0.0 should be more about what is rare out there? This is a bit off topic, but it does explain a lot to the lack of what is now in Empire. The balance is off between the two. Simple fact. Period.
|
Larshus Magrus
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:58:00 -
[61]
The Truth:
1) Changing refines up does nothing except add inflation to the economic system. Unit inflation, not price inflation. Keeping unit refines the same cause price inflation, not unit inflation (assuming there is an increasing demand for minerals). Either way, it adds up to the same thing.
2) Currently mineral prices are capped based on insurance payoffs, or from refining unlimited npc goods (shuttles for instance). If you ask me this sucks. I'm all for a free market and if someone wants to buy up every **** piece of trit, should be part of the mechanics of the game. The fact that there is an UNLIMITED supply of trit (albiet high) by refining npc bought shuttles is silly. This game has PLENTY of t1 builders. Cut the npc manufacturing way down so that t1 manufacturers can compete (this has been done in part) and so that base mineral prices are able to rise above the hard limit ceilings.
3) No one in their right mind would mine base ore out in lowsec or 0.0. Better ore is available. So why the hell would you mine lower ore? Even in crappy lowsec belts the middle ores are available. No reason the mine Veld or Scordite out there.
4) Mining in 0.0 is a total pain in the ass simply because refining is a total pain in the ass. You either need to mine around a refining station, or you need to refine at a large PoS which is extremely innefecient. It's such a main in the ass that unless you are mining zyd/mega its just not worth it time wise. Refining stations are not factory stations. So once stuff is refined its ALL gotta be hauled. Hauling the low ends sucks. No one uses freighters out in 0.0 (personally, not as a corp op) because of the risk. Hauling in empire with freighters makes moving low ends much more realistic. The point is mining low ends in lowsec/empire jsut isnt logistically feasable.
5) #4 can be fixed by implementing some kind of mobile refining platform. This was planned long ago but scrapped. IMHO some type of mobile refine ship should be brought into the game.
|
Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 16:59:00 -
[62]
Morphite and invention.
Seems we will see Morphite go up in price
Originally by: Tuxford
.....stuff... Btw I did mess a bit with tech 2 ammo, I'll post a bit about that later.
|
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:00:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Winterblink
Cez,
You've now transitioned the discussion to one where you're making insults, calling people names, and generally being condescending. You're obviously not interested in anything other than people responding to your thread in agreement with whatever point you're trying to make.
If you take the blinders off you'll see that people aren't making suggestions for you to do as a single person, or even as a single corp. The suggestions and points being discussed apply to a larger scale than you're considering, but you're too busy fishing for agreement to your opinion instead of starting a constructive discussion.
Out
Simply put... you attack me, after I was attacked by someone else... thanks. But, I wouldnt expect more from you since you obviously have a different opinion and jsut looking for a chance to stab me somewhere. I wonder why you cant follow your own beliefs and stay on topic, not sinking to a argument about insults to prove your point on this matter.
I don't care if anyone agrees or not, its a debate. If I lose to opinions that believe there isn't a problem, so be it. But I wont stand back and be insulted by you or anyone else about my opinion. Grow up.
|
Jeslik
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:01:00 -
[64]
The Dev's have said several times (in the short, short time I've been here *1 month noob*) that they want more people in low sec; One of them, in the Dev Chat Followup indicated that moving all lvl 4 mish's out of Empire was a solution he liked. So, roid depletion in Empire space would seem to me to be a positive to them.
Nox, is normally only found in ores in .7 and lower, and then only in certain geographic regions. So, in Minmatar space, it is more expensive. Like you, I have a problem paying 500isk/unit - I've been mining it in Lvl 1 Unauthorized Presence missions in empire space. My Hoarder can pull 24k of Pyro in a coupla hours while AFK, and that gives me @ 700 units of Nox. Thats enough for me to run ammo and sell some if I want; I'm just stockpiling until I'm advanced enough to actually need it.
|
Nimie
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:03:00 -
[65]
what do you mean by fun new toys? t2 or t1?
not sure if i can advertise this but i like it.
http://www.eve-bay.biz/ |
Becham
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:06:00 -
[66]
Quote:
Argueing with exclamation marks is pointless.
You can try to reason with them, but they just get angry and the insults fly (as above).
That's a pretty shallow thing to say. How about directing your comments to an indvidual rather than trying to paint everyone with a broad brush?
|
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:27:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Becham
Originally by: Butter Dog
Argueing with exclamation marks is pointless.
You can try to reason with them, but they just get angry and the insults fly (as above).
That's a pretty shallow thing to say. How about directing your comments to an indvidual rather than trying to paint everyone with a broad brush?
Because, in the aggregate, it's true. There's a reason they banned alts in the Corporate forums - alts don't "discuss".
|
Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:37:00 -
[68]
I'm hoping the new regions will help address the shortage of research slots, too - even low sec stations have gone from having free ME slots a few months ago, to 20 day queues.
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
"That looks interesting... Let's nick it! |
BoinKlasik
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:42:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Evanda Char
I'm hoping the new regions will help address the shortage of research slots, too - even low sec stations have gone from having free ME slots a few months ago, to 20 day queues.
no stations there at all
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries*
this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris
Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron
Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler
The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
|
Frezik
Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:43:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Cez
it has nothing to do with supply and demand in the game... its about balance of the economics with what is being done out of game.
The thing that balances supply and demand is . . . supply and demand.
Quote:
as in the adding of more production and bigger player base coming.
A bigger player base means more players to mine as well as more players to produce. If there are too many miners, prices will drop and some of those miners will go try something else, thus bringing the price up. If there aren't enough miners, prices will rise, and more people will want to get into mining, thus increasing supply and dropping the price.
There will be a point where there are so many players mining that the belts can't regenerate fast enough. In a totally free economy, this would show up on a graph by a huge spike in many different minerals. Now, the mineral market isn't completely free, because CCP implements price floors and ceilings through NPC buy and sell orders. Thus, at a certain price, either supply or demand is effectively infinite. Under such conditions, a shortage of roids would be noted by a price spike followed by prices sitting at the NPC price ceiling.
Looking at the year-long graphs in the Heimatar region, I see normal cyclical changes in the price of various minerals, with no indication of a roid shortage. This data will have to correlated with other regions (which Oveur seems to have already done), but it indicates that there are still areas of useful mining in empire.
Quote:
Explain why people now head to 0.0 to mine common ores?
I don't know of anybody actually doing this, but if they are, they're shortsighted, to put it nicely. Besides what an analysis of market prices brings out, I myself have found a fair bit of empty areas of empire to mine. Eve is definitely more crowded than when I started 2 years ago, but they do exist.
Quote:
Explain why mining rare ores is not proitable at the moment.
I'll assume you mean 'profitable'. Profit is revenue minus cost. The material costs are constant--the mining barge you bought 2 years ago can theoretically still be in use today. Other than that, mining is just about how much time you put into it.
|
Otellus
eXceed Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:45:00 -
[71]
I do see 2 problems with mining, but that has more to do with ice than anything else, and with the feasibility of self-sustainability of 0.0 empires.
Icemining is not very profitable compared to most other areas of business, which makes it an area where mostly macrominers seem to be active. Not sure this is a good thing.
Secondly, the mining of lowends in 0.0 sec suffers from the same problem. Not very profitable, so people resort to mineral compression to get their stuff from empire, which to be honest is probably a gameflaw. Why would a 100mw MWD be only what? 10m3? when the minerals its composed of is much greater in volume.
Only thing I would like to see changed is that a few much more profitable icetypes (especcially with the various isotopes) is added to 0.0 space, and a new mining ship with very large bonuses to mining lowend roids which can only function in 0.0 space (i.e. a capital miner with say quadruple the revenue of a hulk for lowend ores only).
Beyond that, supply and demand will undoubtedly do its job.
|
Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 17:52:00 -
[72]
when and if you start seeing entire constelations that are mined out, then I will say there is a problem.
The minerals are out there in empire, huge amounts of them. the reason minerals keep going up and up and up is becuase more people are useng them, w/o a corrospnding increase in suppliers.
The asteroids are out there, go get them....
|
Verite Rendition
Caldari
AUS Corporation
CORE.
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 18:38:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Cez
Stuff.
Stuff
Ahhh... a dev response
The trend is up and up for prices... show me whats gone down?
Isogen, Megacyte and Morphite for example.
Speaking of megacyte, any word on a potential fix for the problem of megacyte's scarce usage in production compared to its ample supply? Surely it's not meant to be worth less than zyd.
Where are you located? Up in the North(i.e. Jita/Lonetrek), Megacyte is going for a good clip over Zydrine. Zydrine is nearly at historical lows at the moment with Megacyte being fairly high.
----
AUS Corp
Lead Megalomanic |
Dr Mary
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 18:54:00 -
[74]
Isogen was 130-140 last year. Now its 110-120
Trit always jumps up and down. 1.7 to 2.3
Zydr used to be ~4000-4500 now its 3800-4000. This happened after 0.5 roids started to drop zydr.
Cez your problem is fake.
|
Auron Shadowbane
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 19:04:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Auron Shadowbane on 02/11/2006 19:14:23
what about some high-end ores in 0.0 which yield masses of lows.
something like "titanium ore" 16m¦ 200units to refine- yields 1mil trit and 100k pyerite per batch.
|
dalman
Finite Horizon
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 19:04:00 -
[76]
Edited by: dalman on 02/11/2006 19:08:06
Originally by: Cez
Many vets can remember when prices of minerals were 1,4,16,64,264... I don't mind the free market and the flucuating of prices. However, patch after patch we have expanded Eve... more blueprints... more players... more minerals required... bigger and better things to build... and with Kali, we'll be expanding even more. Do you think to counter the expansion of Eve, we should counter with more materials that help build Eve?
No.
Since I sure remember that time, I can enlighten you about it.
Let's:
* remove agent missions completely.
* nerf all belt-rat bounties so highest bounty is 50k.
* remove insurance payouts on ships destroyed.
Then we have the same situation as when the game started and the only way to make isk is by mining minerals and sell it to NPCs at the base-price.
And hence prices will be around these numbers again.
The mineral-price rise has nothing to do with the actual mining.
It's all about what income in isk you get from other activties. And for anyone to mine you'll want roughly the same isk/hour from that.
Hence, if we swing the nerf-bat on other activities the price of minerals will go down. Boost agent missions payouts etc and the mineral price will go up.
Simple as that 
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 19:07:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
what about some high-end ores in 0.0 which yield masses of lows.
something like "titanium ore" 16m¦ 200units to refine- yields 1mil trit and 100k pyerite per patch.
No, low ends in 0.0 come from hauler spawns in huge amounts. And yes, the volumes are large enough to rely on for large scale production.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
dalman
Finite Horizon
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 19:14:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
what about some high-end ores in 0.0 which yield masses of lows.
something like "titanium ore" 16m¦ 200units to refine- yields 1mil trit and 100k pyerite per patch.
No, low ends in 0.0 come from hauler spawns in huge amounts. And yes, the volumes are large enough to rely on for large scale production.
Shadowbane, go down to Stain or something and check the market.
Hauler spawns as well as big ammounts of loot from NPCs makes sure there's no shortage on lows in 0.0
When I lived in stain:
Pyerite was worth roughly ~0.80 isk in Stain while it was ~3.50 isk in "empire".
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 19:18:00 -
[79]
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
what about some high-end ores in 0.0 which yield masses of lows.
something like "titanium ore" 16m¦ 200units to refine- yields 1mil trit and 100k pyerite per patch.
No, low ends in 0.0 come from hauler spawns in huge amounts. And yes, the volumes are large enough to rely on for large scale production.
Shadowbane, go down to Stain or something and check the market.
Hauler spawns as well as big ammounts of loot from NPCs makes sure there's no shortage on lows in 0.0
When I lived in stain:
Pyerite was worth roughly ~0.80 isk in Stain while it was ~3.50 isk in "empire".
With today's logistics, prices are closer to empire cost but definitely cheaper than empire. Definitely no shortage of low ends in 0.0 :D.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Cez
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 19:52:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Dr Mary
Isogen was 130-140 last year. Now its 110-120
Trit always jumps up and down. 1.7 to 2.3
Zydr used to be ~4000-4500 now its 3800-4000. This happened after 0.5 roids started to drop zydr.
Cez your problem is fake.
You need to look at trends... prices are heading up. You can't sit and admit over the last year they have gone down as a whole. Increasing prices is not yet a problem, but it is a bad trend that will continue (in my opinion) if a balance isn't implemented. If the devs keep handing out new production lines, minerals become more and more demanding. The only ones that benefit from this are those that can afford to pay for high demands. Yes, people can mine their life away... I'm sure they can find a belt somewhere, even head to 0.0... but that doesnt help the prices. It may help the individual miner... but what about the small prod corps/players that need to buy minerals to keep afloat? The ones that simply can't mine 2 frieghters worth every 2 weeks?
Personally I feel only bad things can arise if no action is taken, but yet if you increase refine amount 5-10% across the board, only good things can come from it. So, it pretty much boggles my mind why that balance wouldnt be done. And, those that think prices will fall come Kali... feel free to email me and say "I told you so"... but perhaps I'll be referring back to this thread a month after Kali telling you that. I won't gloat... but I've been right before The only matter that concerns me is if the HP increase significanly decreases the amount of ship losses. Then we'll see cheaper prices.
Thanks
|
xeom
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 19:57:00 -
[81]
You have no idea what your talking about Cez.
---
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
|
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 20:35:00 -
[82]
Originally by: xeom
You have no idea what your talking about Cez.
Sounds about right.
Anyone who wants to buy over 142m units of Trit in Oursulaert from one single sell order, can do so now for the sky-dropping price of 2.20 ISK per unit. Which though on the high side, is not setting any new records on the 1-year trend graph, let alone recalling the prices reached during the L4 mission inflationary period reached early in 2005. Lowest point on graph is 1.60 ISK/unit, reached just before the macro miner *****down at the start of this year.
Pyerite shows a similar story. Its price began to resemble that of Mexallon back in the days of inflation, then experienced a long slow drop and has held steady at around 4 ISK per unit through most of the year, before rising to the current plateau of around 4.4 ISK/unit.
The Mexallon trend is a bit more weird, falling from 17 ISK/unit to 8 ISK/unit, then rising back up to 15 ISK/unit over the course of a year. It is worth noting however that this large fluctuation is around an average value that has been fairly stable.
Isogen prices have been in decline, but 125 ISK/unit to 105 ISK/unit over the course of a year is nothing to cry about, considering it was priced at around 80 ISK/unit back in summer 2004 and piked as high as 200 ISK/unit in some places less than ayear later. There is no fundamental revaluation being forced here.
Nocxium is where the anomalous distortion lies, from a very long term average of around 330 ISK/unit, to over 500 ISK/unit today. Perhaps there is increased demand due to the new toys we have been getting. As far as I am concerned, these prices are a much-needed boost to low sec mining anyway, and the 0.0 regions which were at the back of the queue when the good roids were handed out.
Zydrine, Megacyte and Morphite are pretty much where they should be. The manufacture of T1 cruisers, BCs and BS will continue to make high-end mins sought-after, and paying 3.9k, 4.4k and 14k for this stuff is nothing new in the last two and a half years. Even the effect of the new barges and mining accessories made available over time, will be offset at times by alliance mineral sales and supply disruptions resulting from large wars (or conversely, long periods of unusual calm).
I don't see any shortages. I asked an industrial guy for three tier 2 BS and a freighter last month, and there they are, reasonably priced, delivered right on time. I can't complain about that. It simply does not sound like anyone is experiencing any problems.
|
Weirda
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 20:37:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Cez
My point... and I'll make it again... has nothing to do with supply and demand.
but...
Quote:
Its the addition of more production into the game along with the increasingly growing player base in realtion to what is already set in game.
^^ that IS demand (bolded).
you calling people idiots? 
@Winterblink - you are correct. Cez is nothing more then trolling. Moreso - he even trolling the big "o"'s post at this point. Sad that people actually TRYING to help point out flaw in his logic, and he still refuse to see.
__
Weirda
Join QOTSA Now
Stealth Bomber Tweaks |
Frezik
Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 20:44:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Cez
You need to look at trends... prices are heading up. You can't sit and admit over the last year they have gone down as a whole.
I've looked at the graphs for the past year for one fair-sized region (Heimatar). They show nothing except the normal fluctuations you get with any healthy economy. Some minerals are up, some are down. There are no noticeable trends across the board on either low-end or high-end minerals.
As far as I can tell, you're just making up data.
|
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 20:51:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Cez
Many vets can remember when prices of minerals were 1,4,16,64,264...
According to my manual, a single refine unit was 1,000 units of ore, and 1,000 units of Veldspar yielded a stunning 675 units of Tritanium! 
This had to be mined using something called a Cu Vapor Particle Bore Stream I. (This may explain all those corkscrews littering deadspace).
Now it seems you get 3001 units. Oh, and the NPC buy orders which set those price floors have been removed with the sole exception being Tritanium.
I think we have moved on from the first build of EVE.
|
Earthan
Gallente
GREY COUNCIL
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 20:58:00 -
[86]
not agreewd with orginal post , this is free economy and its great as it is.Specially when everybody can mine or hunt npc and refine loot for mince, hence profit/influence it.( unlike some t2 bpo...:( )
-
A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer.
Grey Council webpage
|
Raid
Caldari
Tyrell Corp
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 21:19:00 -
[87]
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
what about some high-end ores in 0.0 which yield masses of lows.
something like "titanium ore" 16m¦ 200units to refine- yields 1mil trit and 100k pyerite per patch.
No, low ends in 0.0 come from hauler spawns in huge amounts. And yes, the volumes are large enough to rely on for large scale production.
Shadowbane, go down to Stain or something and check the market.
Hauler spawns as well as big ammounts of loot from NPCs makes sure there's no shortage on lows in 0.0
When I lived in stain:
Pyerite was worth roughly ~0.80 isk in Stain while it was ~3.50 isk in "empire".
I still have 50 million Pyerite down in 4GQ thats almost 2 years old. Anyone want to buy it? Its compressed for pre-freighter hauling..
|
thatguyinpc
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 21:29:00 -
[88]
Hi gang,
I just wanted to jump in and throw my 2 isk in.
In most scenarios the OP is correct, in this artificial world the Devs should consider increasing the availability of harvestable resources to keep pace with the growth of the player base.
However, IÆm of the opinion that the devs are less concerned with supply and demand (though I agree that the system is more or less working as it should with the exception of the T2 lottery) as they are watching us kill each other over the resources that are available.
The more the supplies dwindle in relation to the number of players, the more conflict/competition will arise over that supply. This I believe is by design.
OP, I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but I believe it is a reasonable answer to your question as to why supplies will not keep pace with player growth.
Guy
|
Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 21:29:00 -
[89]
Originally by: NATMav
It doesn't cost anything to mine your own stuff.
nope, there are costs related to doing stuff yourself like mining. the cost of doing something is the profit you give up for alternative things you could do (called opportunity costs). so the cost of mining white glaze in shihuken is the most profitable thing you could have done in that time. that doesn't show directly in your wallet, but it's still less income that count as "costs".
@ OP:
the problem with a shortage of some minerals is that everyone goes for the ore that offers the best bang for the buck. mining in 0.0 on a larger scale is usually only done in good systems with rare ore because it's just too much trouble. so basically you go for crokite or bistot or something that yields the holy grail mineral "megacyte". zyd and mega are also the lowest volume mineral to move around.
a really interesting chart would be a split of sources of minerals. like: mined in empire, mined in 0.0/low-sec and especially, yielded from reprocessed mission loot. some people say they don't bother grabbing loot yet, grabbing every can that drops, the minerals from reprocessed loot are a considerable amount. unfortunately, that's a significant efforts in datamining, so don't bother with that, devs, please hehe.
the good thing of free market is that if you see an opportunity you can just take it. noone wants to mine veldspar (except chribba) and you feel trit is too highly priced? mine veldspar :). you can never have enough trit for battleship and cap ship production. the market should be happy to have farmers in empire to mine veld and scord at all.
there are enough roids and belts to mine in empire that are not mined out. plenty. or do you mean high grade ore is mined out too quickly? sure is. can't have only high grade ore though or what would the price of isogen and higher grade minerals drop to? people tend to maximize their profits after all. so high-sec omber is a quick race to mine out, then there's all the low-end ore that people don't like mining.
can you blame the market for that? what employer would you choose if two offer the same working conditions and one pays less? the more profitable one other things equal of course. also, don't forget that there's much more isk in circulation nowadays.
--
|
Ingols
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 21:33:00 -
[90]
There are two markets forces going on here.
The local market. Quantities less then say 3 million units of a low end mineral like trit, pye, mex. Little bit lower for things like Isogen, Noc, much lower for things like Zyd, Mega.
The global market. Quantities like 50m trit, 25m pye, 10m mex etc .... Huge numbers that don't often hit the market boards but are traded by arrangements on the mineral channel.
The global market tends to sell and buy at premiums. I guess because there is a certain value for being able to pick up 100m trit all at one place.
Other then that, I see alot of hording going on for pre-kali reasons. I have a huge position in minerals right now because I anticipate an ever increasing demand for minerals for the new Tier 3 Battleships.
I know people buying BS at 10% of less premiums in anticipation of refining them down for minerals.
|
Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 22:04:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Gariuys on 02/11/2006 22:09:51
Great going, well over 3 pages of talk, 2 dev posts from the man we all worship ( well he is one of the EVE gods ) ;-D
And all that too try to talk some sense in someone that obviously doesn't want a discussion, nor has anything worthwhile to bring to a discussion regarding this topic. Guess it was a slow day on the forums.
just hope that when this thread ends, everybody ( save for the op ) will agree that we shouldn't mess with the economics on the mmo that's doing the economics part right.
|
Epidemis
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 22:21:00 -
[92]
The problem here is obviously the tier 2 profit margin, I say make more BPOs available.
|
Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 22:27:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Epidemis
The problem here is obviously the tier 2 profit margin, I say make more BPOs available.
The problem is obviously that ships can blow up, we should make blowing up leave a wreck( hey they where planning that anyway), and you can take your egg back, and presto, you get your ship back......
|
Epidemis
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 22:32:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Epidemis on 02/11/2006 22:33:16
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Epidemis
The problem here is obviously the tier 2 profit margin, I say make more BPOs available.
The problem is obviously that ships can blow up, we should make blowing up leave a wreck( hey they where planning that anyway), and you can take your egg back, and presto, you get your ship back......
Eh? I'm talking about how the extremely high profit margin on tech 2 (sorry, mistyped it as tier 2) allowed the suppliers the press the price of ore causing the unfortunate industrials that dont have a tech 2 blueprint :( But I dont see how wrecks will correct that, the items you retrieve is only a mere fraction of what you have bought it at.
|
Kaathar Rielspar
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 23:04:00 -
[95]
all this fuss... and what's the problem exactly?
mineral prices rise > miners get more isk > ship/mod prices rise > people buy the stuff anyway
mining lowends has never been a great source of income. I look forward to the days of trit @ 3/u, pye @ 6/u and mex topping 24. perhaps then it'll make mining plag worthwhile.
as for the latest nocxium prices, i'd hazard a guess that re-sellers are playing a part in at least 3 empire regions
____________________
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Eximius Josari
If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs?
Overpriced Nos victims.
|
Hellspawn01
Amarr
The Phantom Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.02 23:07:00 -
[96]
Whining starts with "its time to nerf/balance/remove..."
Seriously, its the player market that makes the price and its good that way.
Ship lovers click here |
Sonlatur
Minmatar
Matari Raiders
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 00:00:00 -
[97]
The EVE economy is moving. That is a good thing.
Due to the demand and supply dynamics, new equilibria will be achieved.
(What the OP also is missing is that the earning potential has increased dramatically over the years. So we also have inflation.)
Increasing mineral prices wouldnt be much of a problem. Sure we poor saps could afford less of the shiny stuff, but the scenario drawn by the OP, that we are left of ships to afford, will not happen. If mineral prices skyrocket, we can always go mining.
Also the argument that T1 producers are getting into trouble with rising mineral prices does not hold (for the most part, i'll get to that). Profit from T1 production will remain constant, because if it falls below a certain threshold, people will just stop bothering to give manifacturing orders, supply will fall and thus prices will rise once again.
The one thing however threatening T1 producers (and miners due to refining) are rat drops. This IS a valid point i believe. When we get more ratters (and mission runners, mostly actually, since the loot from those is mostly non-named T1 crap) in the economy, T1 producers will get get non-producing competition. As a solution i suggest removing manifacturable stuff from loot drops.
The only potential unbalance that remains is that named stuff gets so common that it is of comparable price to T1 stuff. This already happened for a couple of items i believe (wonder if anyone still builds webbers?) and i believe there the drop rates have to be adjusted.
Everything can just float. Change is good.
--
"Greetings fellow pod pilot. I am Sonlatur of the Sebiestor tribe and you have become a target in my war against the Evil Amarr Empire. Ransom negotiations are possible." |
Zeko Rena
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 00:17:00 -
[98]
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but arnt system wide belts on the possible list of things to come, if so maybe that will fix the problem, besides if you dont like how expensive minerals are why not just mine them and sell them, the increase of some mineral prices makes the boringness of mining more worth while.
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 00:40:00 -
[99]
If I'm not much mistaken, the new regions (aside from bringing more roid belts) are all rogue drone populated. Rogue drones don't have bounties- they drop drone poo. Drone poo is extremely rich in minerals. One mineral boost
-----------------------------------------------
|
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 01:45:00 -
[100]
Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 03/11/2006 01:49:15
I read a thread a while ago talking about how one would go about creating new hubs for the economy. The general concensous was that it would be nigh impossible to create new hubs purely from player interaction because the hubs are created through a number of non variable occurrances. The greatest of these was mission running centres. As most peeps who run missions sell loot or refine down to mins than sell them, it only makes sense for industry to remain at these hubs also to reduce transport time.
Without dropping the amount of loot dropped from rats or by moving mission centers it is unlikely there will be enough incentive for people to move to low sec, due to the threat of piracy. While there are better ores out there one can easily surpass the profit margin of mining them by ratting or mission running.
If anything not only is the op's predictions and suggestions wrong- if implimented it would only further the problem of 70% of the population being restricted to empire.
As for the outragous prices for t2 items- that great- its novel and there is a monopoly on those items. I dont think being able to supply an endless amount of items for player use is a good thing. I think its a bad thing. If anything mining needs to get a boost just to still compete with ratting and mission running as sources for revenue.
Therefore my suggestions to any devs possibly reading...
1)Reduce loot drops from rats, or at least reduce the amount of named loot so to cause inflation across the board for mods.
2) Perhaps look at tweeking the amount of refining available from refining loot. When people are posting on the forums that they are stockpiling bs's to refine down for mins, you know there could be a possible issue with scrapyard refining.
3) Reduce the amount of Hauler spawns so as to create a market for low end mins in 0.0. This demand could enduce mining corps to set up shop mid-way in low sec regions such as Aridia etc.
4)Reduce bounty levels slightly to again make mining a more profitable alturnative. Perhaps this would cause a depression tho... Im undecided about this factor.
5)Reduce further the respawn rate of roids in empire. Perhaps than we will see greater competition resulting in more empire wars/ system claims. This would have two outcomes, one; more destroyed ships=more demand for t1 industry two; an exoduse away from empire to relatively empty space-higher amounts of low sec miners would create more targets for pies= higher demand for industry.
If at least a few of these were implimented you would see a higher amount of people leaving the cot that is known as empire space. Seriously there is not a shortage of minerals... there is a shortage of an incentive to mine them
|
Bill Shankly
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 03:21:00 -
[101]
lol 4 pages now and the OP still hasnt got it into hishead that there does not need to be a "balancing" of the refine yeild, ore amounts present as there is plenty of ore about the universe much more than we will ever need in the foreseable future.
|
Darksaber64x
Ecchi co.
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 03:23:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Darksaber64x on 03/11/2006 03:24:37
@ Cez
You seem to have a "Sky is falling" mentality and don't seem to read anything that people are saying.
The reason minerals cost more:
There is more isk in circulation than there was. People went from having millions of isk to having billions of it. It's a lot easier to come by nowindays. The more money that's introduced into the economy, the more inflation happens. Inflation isn't always bad, but it's unavoidable in most economies.
If someone can make 2mil/hour ratting, he wouldn't mind too much spending 1 mil/one hours worth of mined materials. Way back when, when that same ratter could only make 500k/hour, he may be willing to pay 250k/one hours worth of mining materials.
It's inflation.
There's more money in the system.
People have money money.
People are willing to spend more money on minerals.
Again: It's supply and demand.
People are willing to pay more for ore, since they aren't willing to mine themselves. There is no shortage of minerals. Can you honestly not find any? If not you may want to have your monitor looked at.
Edit: Spelling ><
|
Makaera Koshito
Einherjar Rising
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 04:42:00 -
[103]
Originally by: xeom
You have no idea what your talking about Cez.
This is a recurring problem.
|
Verite Rendition
Caldari
AUS Corporation
CORE.
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 06:28:00 -
[104]
To prove a point, I stitched together a quick & dirty picture of all the price graphs of minerals in Lonetrek for the last year. Other than Trit and Nocx, everything is at the same or lower for the year-to-date. By far and large, prices would indicate there's actually an oversupply of most minerals in the market, as prices are down and paying miners less isk per unit.
Lonetrek Price Charts
----
AUS Corp
Lead Megalomanic |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |