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Bishop 5
Gallente Evisceration. EVE Alliance9673
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:25:00 -
[31]
With respect to that range nerfs in fleet battles:
With the upcoming changes in communication and structure in fleets, won't that make it easier for groups of t1, close range fitted BS to jump in seperately from the snipers and do lots of nasty things? -------------
meh |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Zarch AlDain T2 ammo is broken to the point that (with the possible exception of a Rokh) T1 snipers are utterly and totally useles in fleet battles.
That needs fixing - more effective ok - the only way to win - bad.
Now its just everything but the T2 Rokh that is useless in fleet battles... good fix.
Wow, the deductive power of people is amazing, even though they haven't had a chance to even have 1 decent (fleet) battle with a certain ship!
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Naal Morno
ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:27:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Naal Morno on 02/11/2006 20:27:42 Well, Gallente are relatively ok on the long range ammo nerf since they only need to learn Caldari BS skill since both races use same turrets
Of course, lack of any other +10% to optimal BS out there means that fleet engagements will be purely Caldari affair from now on . Way to go! (sarcasm)
This leaves Amarr and Minmatar relatively most affected since I don't see why would any race have to re-train their turret skills to be able to effectively fly best fleet sniper. _________________________________________
Once I thought T2 BPO Lottery is a problem... Then I've become a part of problem and I relized that previously I was just plain jealous. |
Ming Xia
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:29:00 -
[34]
Torps needed some precision loving. No doubt about it. No one cares whether they can fly 100km or 200km because either way, they're still slow as ****. What everyone loved about Javelin torps was the wee bit of extra precision. Yes, Javelins are pretty buff currently. Full damage w/ precision is admittedly a bit on the strong side. However, less damage AND no precision makes them absolutely useless. Running with Scissors |
Adoran Wa'alle
Caldari 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jaxtony
Originally by: Dammar
Originally by: Jaxtony I didn't intend my post/comments to be laughable. I was just not familiar with the use of that particular phrasing in the language.
Sorry. I should've quoted my target. Comment was directed at Black Scorpio.
It is ok. So is that phrase linked to "gangsta" speak?
Like... Hey yo! Holla atcha ...wait for it gurl!
or
I'm going to bust a cap wait for it... in yo ***
I'm trying to learn some new things.
The Americans are too busy eating at McDonalds to answer, so they sent in their Norwegian substitute
It doesn't have to have anything with gangsta speak to do, but I guess it could be used there too.
But really...American sarcasm not being interpreted as such outside the US Continent? I got it. And I'm from a cold part of europe. -------------------------------------
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ming Xia Torps needed some precision loving. No doubt about it. No one cares whether they can fly 100km or 200km because either way, they're still slow as ****. What everyone loved about Javelin torps was the wee bit of extra precision. Yes, Javelins are pretty buff currently. Full damage w/ precision is admittedly a bit on the strong side. However, less damage AND no precision makes them absolutely useless.
I think they are trying to make them into a range ammo and a damage ammo like their turret counterparts... For example, Quake is high damage, Tremor is high range. There is no turret ammo that gives a significant increase in tracking and signature resolution allowing for easy ownage of smaller targets and it seems like CCP is realizing that giving missles an ammo that can do that is unbalanced, hence the change.
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:41:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Alha Qmar So mid august I decided to train for t2 long range rail ammo, this would also allow me to fly a blasterthron. At that time I imagined to partake in fleet combat as part of sniper fleet owning alot. Aswell getting to fly a great ship for solo pvp, the blasterthron.
Now with both blaster ammo nerf and long range damage nerf, I am thinking wtf tuxford has in mind with this. I agree that adding some HP to ships might be a good idea so people dont get insatnly ganked at some times, but then u must be completely retarted to reduce damage done by t2 because this will make it for the player twice as hard, its a double nerf, to kill something. To a point where it might not be worth to use t2.
This counts especially for solo pvp, something I have been doing alot since I joined privateers. Lets look at empire wars for example, in this case I often prefer to attack people from 30km+ range so they can't scramble me, but this forces me to kill them before they reach the gate. Its already hard enough now for me to catch anyone at a gate and kill him before he jumps through. Now with increased HP, and reduced dmg done by t2 ammo this works in 2 ways that its bad for the player and will reduce the chance of killing someone in an empire war at a gate SOLO even less.
For low sec pirating this goes the same, solo is screwed, a battle with equal oponents might just aswell take place untill someone gets outside scramble range and simply warps off, are take place so long untill anotherone his buddy warps in and screws the 1v1.
Signed
A not so happy customer
Well i dont agree here.
Long range ammo needed nerf, hp boost imho is great. Sure you wont be able anymore kill ships alone form 150+ km with a bs.And its tottaly right, you should:
a) have friend tackling fro you.
b) fit a close range ship, fit warp scrmblers on it and do it.
Thats how it was long long time before back in castor and before.And imho it was so much better.
For balsterthron nerf...I feel balsterhtrons are really obsolete but im not so sure this changes will nerf them more.The problem sare balsters not hp on toher ships imho.Tough ofc close range t2 ammo imho didnt need nerf...
But imho its good direction even if osme things will be unbalanced like possibly lasers and blasters , well i hope ccp will fix it soon.Direction is good.
And yes im priamry gallente pilot and i got pvp experience. - A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer. Grey Council webpage
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:47:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Earthan on 02/11/2006 20:48:11
Originally by: Centurin Black Scorpio, why must you troll every respectable post on these forums? Caldari have it easy in Kali. Nothing you can say or troll will change that. T2 torps are balanced. T2 ammo for everyone else is nerfed.
Amarr are screwed because.. well they're Amarr.
Gallente are screwed because of lack of a drone HP boost, Ecm nerfs, blasterships are now useless, and a really crappy T2 ship. While I agree that ECM had to be delt with, nerfing Gallente even further was not neccesarry. T2 had to be balanced. But making it useless was completely uncalled for.
In addition to that, the HP boost caused all kinds of balance issues. For one, the Gallente repair bonus is now even more useless. Ships that get a resistence bonus (hello Caldari) have a major advantage now.
Caldari got boosted with the Drake and Rohk. They got boosted with ungodly shield tanks. They got boosted with Heavy Assault launchers. Please stop making yourself look like an idiot by poor mouthing Caldari every chance you get.
Agreed for the caldari getting all the candies.
Its jsut like its the flavour of the month , except its the flavour of 1/2 year or longer , and it really gets all best ships/boosts, the ones quoted above.
I would wait with calling gallente repariring bonus useless tough.While caldari will gain mcuh more with pure resitance bonus and both for small and big fleet fights, gallente repair bonus for small fights ( for big fleets yea its pointless) might be still quite good, remmber more hp overall= more time to reapier - A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer. Grey Council webpage
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.02 20:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Bishop 5 With respect to that range nerfs in fleet battles:
With the upcoming changes in communication and structure in fleets, won't that make it easier for groups of t1, close range fitted BS to jump in seperately from the snipers and do lots of nasty things?
No. You need numbers to survive. If you jump in in anything less than full strength, you will lose more ships than necessary. Close range battleships will not benefit from command structure changes, what is needed is some hard changes that will place the benefits of survivability on the short range ships instead of the long range ships. Basic game design is that if you can reach far and not be reached, or if you can hide/evade damage, then you will be soft. If you are very close ranged, you will be using simplistic weapons and have left for getting a hard metal skin. In EVE it's the reverse in that the close range ships must have scramblers and propulsion modules which suck up fitting space. Especially the MWD is punitive for the close range ship, when it should be punitive for long range ship instead. Inherent in this problem is the jump-in system as well as the free modular fitting system, not to mention the warp-off feature! - in effect this would mean that modules need to be targeted for purpose, effectively reducing effectiveness of roles the modules are not intended for.
But it's all theory. Let's just say that getting close range ships larger than frigates into a fleet fight will be a ******* hard job for Tuxford, short of a rewrite of how the warp system works. - Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.02 21:12:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Grimpak while a nerf to T2 long range ammo is welcome (specially jav torps), I still think that spike/tremor/aurora should maintain same damage and have range bonus nerfed to the same as iron/carbon lead/radio (60% instead 100%).
Well if you want to have a high dealing/more precise torpedo be a short range weapon, I don't see why a high dealing damage T2 ammo should be a long range weapon either.
*coff*cruisemissiles*coff* -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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ElweSingollo
Starlancers
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Posted - 2006.11.02 22:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Zarch AlDain T2 ammo is broken to the point that (with the possible exception of a Rokh) T1 snipers are utterly and totally useles in fleet battles.
That needs fixing - more effective ok - the only way to win - bad.
Now its just everything but the T2 Rokh that is useless in fleet battles... good fix.
Wow, the deductive power of people is amazing, even though they haven't had a chance to even have 1 decent (fleet) battle with a certain ship!
I don't really have any large fleet battles any more as I have left 0.0 alliances a wee while back however I have done prelimanary testing with both Abaddon v Rokh and Apoc v Rokh in the ranged debate to see which would be better to fly if you wanted to snipe. I am Amarr specced and have large Enery Spec so fitted Tach 2's to my Abaddon and Apoc with a sniper setup and a similar sniper setup to teh Rohk I have Caldari B/ship at only lvl 3 and Large Rails only at lvl 1.
Optimal with Aroura ammo and tach 2's 170 odd on teh Abbadon and Apoc of which teh Apoc is better cause at least it can keep shooting.
Optimal with 425mm t1 guns and Iron ammo (less range than t2 ammo) 215km now if you get a fleet of Rokh's v a fleet of mixed battleships of similar number the Rohk fleet will win provided it stay out of range of it's opponant which it is perfectly able to do in it's current form.
There are a lot of variables but if the Rohks fight at there range they will win as no one else can hit them.
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.02 22:53:00 -
[42]
The Sky is falling ! The Sky is fallling!
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Trader Phil
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Posted - 2006.11.03 02:44:00 -
[43]
Black Scorpio you should become a politcal pundit. You are very adept at repeating the same partisan idiotic stuff over and over while not actually addresing issues.
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Sovereign533
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.03 03:13:00 -
[44]
well, i know Tux isn't going to respond to this... but i really wanna know the reason for the Blaster nerf...
for most of the things, i have to agree... Spike was to long... i fly Caldari sniper ships myself... and well, it's a bit over the top... 80% is better... like i said i'm Caldari, so i also have the ability to use missiles... the Jav Torp 'nerf' is good... that thing was way to powerfull... hp boost, generally great... makes battles last longer... this does 'nerf' some races, especially the Amarr... because they have cap issues as it is... i think these should get a boost... but, the hp boost is ok as far as i see... battles are to short... ECM 'nerf', also ok... the current calculation : if ECM, then win... this just needs to be changed...
but the only thing i don't understand is why the Blaster ammo gets nerfed... as far as i can see, nothing provoked this... and afaik nobody complained about it being overpowered... so again... why is this nerfed?
and to all you little kids over here who keep flaming... plz tell your parents to stop paying for you with their creditcard... be civilised, or plz, bugger off...
just my 2 iskies...
Originally by: Sovereign533 Time will tell, sooner or later, time will tell...
Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... |
Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.11.03 03:24:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sovereign533 but the only thing i don't understand is why the Blaster ammo gets nerfed... as far as i can see, nothing provoked this... and afaik nobody complained about it being overpowered... so again... why is this nerfed?
I suspect it was nerfed since the Megathron with Null outdamaged the Tempest with Barrage all the way out to about 22km. However, the 50% tracking nerf doesn't really change that.
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.11.03 05:59:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Liru Okami on 03/11/2006 06:00:47 Doubble post, deleted
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.11.03 05:59:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Liru Okami on 03/11/2006 06:00:01 :With deadpan tone: Maybe you should try not killing people because they are there.
And find a real reason to fight.
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.11.03 07:24:00 -
[48]
What the hell is the logic in that? Do you actually listen to yourself, I am sorry to flame here but seriously. You just said that the ship closest to the fight and the enemy should have the best chance of surviving the engagement.
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Bishop 5 With respect to that range nerfs in fleet battles:
With the upcoming changes in communication and structure in fleets, won't that make it easier for groups of t1, close range fitted BS to jump in seperately from the snipers and do lots of nasty things?
No. You need numbers to survive. If you jump in in anything less than full strength, you will lose more ships than necessary. Close range battleships will not benefit from command structure changes, what is needed is some hard changes that will place the benefits of survivability on the short range ships instead of the long range ships. Basic game design is that if you can reach far and not be reached, or if you can hide/evade damage, then you will be soft. If you are very close ranged, you will be using simplistic weapons and have left for getting a hard metal skin. In EVE it's the reverse in that the close range ships must have scramblers and propulsion modules which suck up fitting space. Especially the MWD is punitive for the close range ship, when it should be punitive for long range ship instead. Inherent in this problem is the jump-in system as well as the free modular fitting system, not to mention the warp-off feature! - in effect this would mean that modules need to be targeted for purpose, effectively reducing effectiveness of roles the modules are not intended for.
But it's all theory. Let's just say that getting close range ships larger than frigates into a fleet fight will be a ******* hard job for Tuxford, short of a rewrite of how the warp system works.
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Aphotic Raven
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Posted - 2006.11.03 07:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Dammar Everyone is going to feel this nerf except for...wait for it....
Caldari
You may now resume crying into your pillow.
If you think that you must be oblivious or unable to look further than your nose.
1. T2 torps are useless 2. ECM is getting nerfed to death
I don't see any changes for Gallente or Amarr for that matter, assuming you fly any of these two races.
To the OP. All T2 ammo is nerfed for some reason, and is not right, hope they fix that and make time in training worth it!
You sir, are retarded, t2 torps are useless, waaah, ecm is useless? only if you arent caldari.
Fights last longer, that means my (Gallente) Cap needs to last longer, that means i need to use either more nos or injectors and THAT is why caldari are going to *****, passive tanks will pwn even if they have ****e DPS because sooner or later, im gonna have to stop repping.
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