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Lithorus
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Posted - 2003.11.07 02:02:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lithorus on 07/11/2003 02:04:06
Even with the so called "nerfing" of empire space mining, nothing will stop you from making good profits while mining safely. They way CCP wants the game to be played is people becomming less dependent from CONCORD. Remember the reason you can mine in all safety is something you can thank CONCORD for. What CCP is preparing for is that players have to make space secure. I wouldn't call it forcing, but rather pushing. You know sorta like when your parents pushed you to get an place for yourself. (oh wait, guess that hasn't happened yet)
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Herophant
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Posted - 2003.11.07 02:05:00 -
[32]
If the pirates think all the non fighting members of the eve will be "forced" out of carebear space, armed with only mining lasers and munning drones they are obviusly wrong. But thats what they want isnt it? That way they can continiue with their "safe" way of making cash when ccp fixes the jump in spawn problem. The sane solution the way i belive ccp will solve the problem. its easy really. One way or another make safe minning much less profitable. That way u have to accsept risks if u want to get good income. Or stay safe and poor. Thats the sollution that will please everybody exsept the miner carebears and the pirate carebears. |
Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.11.07 02:09:00 -
[33]
MyLittleHelper, let me remind you of what the original problem is.
Straight out of the mouth of a dev named TomB.
TomB said:
 Quote:
TomB > The problem is that there is bad balance on amount of roid types and the amount of units distributed into the world.
So which is it? The players mining too much ore in secure space, or "a bad balance on amount of roid types and the amount of units distributed into the world".
I think anybody with a little common sense and an ability to read and comprehends TomB's original remarks will come to the same conclusion that I have.
My original post was expressing my anger with the way the CCP dev's are dealing with this problem.
They have clearly shown an inability to accept blame for their own screw ups and to top it all off they blame the players instead! This is what I'm angry about.
MyLittleHelper, if you don't see this then I have nothing else to say.
We can only agree to disagree I guess.
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
Draka
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Posted - 2003.11.07 02:49:00 -
[34]
The economy will be fixed the day I can make and sell A-3 Missile launchers, manufactured from my researched BP, at a profit on a consistant basis.
The day that the majority of players purchase the majority of their ships and equipment from manufacturing players - not the NPCs, nor the pirate loot items.
The day that making ISK mining low value ore in enuf quantity to actually get well off, and not have every Tom, **** and Harry in this game yelling "Carebear" at the miner because he didn't have to kill something in the process.
CEO
The Cinnaban Order
"Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic" |
Ariell Lucinwind
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Posted - 2003.11.07 02:58:00 -
[35]
Quote:
I've recently read Hellmars remarks about nerfing mining in 1.0 space to force players to mine in 0.0 space.
WOW thats really rough on you and I feel really sorry for you.
So that means CCP deleted systems 0.9 to 0.1 and we only have pure safe havens and pure havoc systems?
Gee, i better quit to cause I am inbetween 0.3 to 0.5 systems doing my own thing and the developers are going to abolish mining all together from those systems by wiping/deleting those systems completly off the map.
OH MY GOD what is this game world comming to, I am so distressed I may just flip out and panic and quit EVE all together........
But in truth/reality --
Jake Solnich whats wrong with mining in other places anyway?
You did a great job of kicking up a stink that you didn't want to go to 0.0 space so whats wrong out there?
<< No hugs for you >>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Came back cause I love you guys :P |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.07 03:06:00 -
[36]
Edited by: j0sephine on 07/11/2003 03:11:36
"Straight out of the mouth of a dev named TomB.
TomB said:
Quote:
TomB > The problem is that there is bad balance on amount of roid types and the amount of units distributed into the world.
So which is it? The players mining too much ore in secure space, or "a bad balance on amount of roid types and the amount of units distributed into the world"."
... Don't see why only one of those has to be valid. The bad balance (TomB) --too much of easily available ore in the empire space-- allows people to mine it all day and make piles of money, without ever having to pursue the 'rare' ore types. (Hellmar)
Obviously the devs cannot fix it by pushing more of the existing ore into the 0.0 space though... as then the mass-miners could still be able to suck out whatever little amount is still in empire space, with even less ore left for the starting players. So instead they intend to prevent safe mass-mining by some others, yet undisclosed means.
... Mayhaps dropping the whole beaten-to-death subject until we actually know what is going to happen, would be the best idea...
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Tok Narok
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Posted - 2003.11.07 03:14:00 -
[37]
Quote:
... Mayhaps dropping the whole beaten-to-death subject until we actually know what is going to happen, would be the best idea...
j0, not only are you my favourite babe, you've also got brains...
Popular deviant. |
Ethen Hunt
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Posted - 2003.11.07 03:18:00 -
[38]
Chaps i think your both arguing over slightly different points. One is the Baby Roid problem, which is totally seperate from Jakes argument about nerfing mining. What I read, CCP want to nerf Battleship Mining in high sec space not mining in gereral.
CCP never planned on hundreds of players in BS with 8 miner II's, 10 Harvey drones earning over 4 Mil ISK an hour from mining plagy or pyro with NO RISK.
Like MyLittleHelper said Isk = Risk
But it dosen't, you would be lucky making 4 mil a week mining bistot in 0.0 with the rats and the pir8s putting your ship under constant danger. So which one seems fare??? Ask yourself that question.
Jake, just because ppl may have been mining in secure space in BS's for months earning hundreds of millions of Isk, dosn't mean its right in the context of the game mechanics. Remember this is just a game, CCP's game. So if they feel like BS mining needs nerfing, then they should, and i totally agree.
People's reply's also has nothing to do with pir8ing. I mine in 0.3 always have done and it's perfectly safe providing you know what your doing, and if your mining in a BS then you should.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.07 03:21:00 -
[39]
"j0, not only are you my favourite babe, you've also got brains..."
... Not to mention 10k isk and the "iouevemail reply" ticket.. -.o (tomorrow if i may, couldn't log in the game for long enough today :/
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Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.11.07 03:27:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Let me remind those who are unaware of the real problem with the asteroid resources since some have forgotten.
Here is a quote from a CSM on September 17th by TomB on this very subject.
Quote:
EVE I > It is believed that asteroid belts can only "carry" a maximum amount of ore, like 100,000m3 for example. It is also believed that all asteroids grow over time. As the high ores (crokite, bistot) are mined out of a belt, the low ores keep growing until the total max volume of the belt is reached and there is no more "room" for the higher ores to grow into. This explains the countless systems that have bistot rocks of 4-15 units each. Can you confirm that this is how the asteroid belts operate? If so what is being done to correct this? If not then what is the mechanics and the cause of the "micro roid" problem?
Darksheer > !
Greyhound > ??
EVE I > ! means u got a question and want a turn
Civil Deity > grey i think ?'s and !'s are all met with !'s... not sure ? is recognized
Jash Illian > !
Civil Deity > like in our stain meets
EVE I > also hush until Pann invites u to speak
TomB > YEs this currently works like this, just a faulty balance on the distribution system which will get fixed when we introduce deep core mining.
TomB > The problem is that there is bad balance on amount of roid types and the amount of units distributed into the world.
TomB > Very few people have for example seen Arkanor roids, but finding one will resolve in almost endless amount.
TomB > ...of units inside that Arkanor roid.
Bottom line is the real problem with the asteroid spawn balance needs to be fixed!!!
This whole situation is clearly starting to show CCP's incompetence and my patience is starting to wear thin.
if you read this, you see that the miners ruined themselves
you mine only the Bist rock day after day and nothing else
soon theres no space left for the Bistit rock to grow
CCP makes mistakes, but this one aint their fault, its squarly on you and your miner 2's
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.07 04:11:00 -
[41]
Mining in 0.0 space wouldnt be so bad if we had mobile refineries. CCP shouldve slowed down on the high-end roid nerfs until we had them. As it is now a 25 jump trip is common in some regions. Mining megacyte is very boring!!!!
Get the refineries in the game and give us something to work for.
Calladen Nimitz 
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Znaei
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Posted - 2003.11.07 04:17:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Where in the world did you read that they are forcing battleship miners into 0.0 space???
They said that it would include some risk mining in high security systems. Maybe they will put in some rats that will attack battleships only.
Why not wait and see how this turns out and see what they are talking about, before ppl start whining and flaming every single change in the game?
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
Jolo
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Posted - 2003.11.07 05:38:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Im not twisting anything, Im merely stating what you've said in your original posts and that your wrong.
Isk = Risk
I do not agree with the isk=risk thing. This is a game where we can choose to do what we wish, I think people should be able to become rich by doing long boring tasks, if that's what they want.Setting a rule where, only the strong can afford to mine is stupid. Consistantly this game crushes the small corps and lifts up the few rich.
Only time small corps benifit (like getting cheaper miner II's) is when they screw up and agents give out too many BPs. =:) if CCP had it's way, you'd still be paying 3 mil a miner II thanks to monopoly.
Hey it's just like reality! but i thought this was a game...
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Tok Narok
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Posted - 2003.11.07 06:33:00 -
[44]
Quote:
"j0, not only are you my favourite babe, you've also got brains..."
... Not to mention 10k isk and the "iouevemail reply" ticket.. -.o (tomorrow if i may, couldn't log in the game for long enough today :/
It's the start of www.evebabes.net, and you're my first, and foremost, evebabe :)
Popular deviant. |
Avon
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Posted - 2003.11.07 09:55:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Avon on 07/11/2003 09:57:15
Strip mining in 1.0 systems is isk for zero risk, and more importantly, requires no PvP.
I don't mean combat here.
So long as there are NPC buy orders for minerals the market can never be fully player driven.
If prices were driven buy supply and demand no-one would want to sell trit anyway, the market price would be around 0.1 isk by now.
People complain that mega and zyd are too expensive because they hard to get, but they are meant to be rare.
So long as people are able to sell their low end ores at artificially high prices (because they are bolstered by the NPC demand) they will be unwilling to take the risks involved in mining for the minerals which are in high demand.
Eve is meant to be PvP, not PvE. Until the market prices are dictated through the laws of supply and demand and not inflated by npc buy orders, the only way to get the PvE players involved in the overall game is to push them.
*NOTE PvP does not have to mean combat.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Ruby LeFonte
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Posted - 2003.11.07 10:30:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ruby LeFonte on 07/11/2003 10:30:56
Why is it that whenever someone says he would rather not be forced into 0.0 to mine, this immediately equals "You want no risk mining, you carebear!".
It's not the same...
If CCP changes the rules so that I make less profit in Empire when mining, so be it. I'll make less profit.
If CCP changes the rules so that it'll be nigh-impossible to mine in Empire space (except for new players) forcing me to abandon Empire, then I am with Jake.
One thing does not mean the other, and as we don't know how CCP will change things, I think we all need to blow off some steal and wait for "soon™" and "2-3 weeks" which take 1-2 months.
Just because we are paranoid, doesn't mean you're not out to get us. |
Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.11.07 10:59:00 -
[47]
He's made because he can't mine afk in 1.0 space anymore. Its funny how you say that the devs are forcing you, or are going to force you the way they think you should play, well they developed the game ya dork. Its suppost to be that way. They make the rules not you. Christ man, miners get 1 nerf and ****, its the end of the world.
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Artean
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Posted - 2003.11.07 11:21:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Artean on 07/11/2003 11:23:16
Cant believe all the rage this (forthcomming) change has caused.
Easy = no fun
Gi-normous amounts of easy ISK = bordom till death (in the long run)
Devs setting rules for u to play along = oh yes, they can, they will and, no doubt, they should
Player-base knows whats best for them selfs, the game (in the long run) = nope, generally they dont but, naturally, are entitled to an opinion. You have shared us your.
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.11.07 11:52:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Chai N'Dorr on 07/11/2003 11:53:39
There's currently nothing out there outside Empire space to warrent people going there.
Add things that are worth visiting in non-Empire will make people want to go there, not making Empire space even more dreary that it is now.
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Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.11.07 11:56:00 -
[50]
Bistot is out in 0.0 space, 50k npc pirates, you don't leave empire space because you make just as much afk mining in empire space, they will nerf this and make bistot 'worth' mining.
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2003.11.07 12:05:00 -
[51]
You know the funny part about some bisot rocks I ve come across that were so small, I technically should have been able to scoop them to my cargo hold.
Roid fix would be nice all in all.
It aint gonna be that bad guys, wait for the patch, see what they implement, then ***** if you really think it sucks. I seem to be able to still strip mine wherver I like in the empire.
So you might have to pull one of those bs off the field for mining and use it to Kill the danger or whatever.
What do you think is gonna happen when we get player own station/system type things going.
"Oh I'll just waltz in with 5 BS all setup for strip mining and the owners won't do a thing about it" he he.....
Ya right. Anyway just wait for the patch........nuff said!
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Lucre
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Posted - 2003.11.07 12:14:00 -
[52]
Quote:
if you read this, you see that the miners ruined themselves
you mine only the Bist rock day after day and nothing else
soon theres no space left for the Bistit rock to grow
CCP makes mistakes, but this one aint their fault, its squarly on you and your miner 2's
Except that if miners leave the Bist rocks alone to let them grow, then some other dude happily waltzes in and mines it instead. So that approach only works if you can "lay claim" to a belt which most miners just can't do.
Of course if we had played-owned stations and sentry guns and the ability for individuals or small corps to set up our own little domains it might be another matter... <g>
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ZzeusS
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Posted - 2003.11.07 17:14:00 -
[53]
Quote:
I've recently read Hellmars remarks about nerfing mining in 1.0 space to force players to mine in 0.0 space.
I am very irritated and frankly ****ed off by this idea. I bought Eve so that I could play it the way I want and not the way the game developers think I should play it.
If they want to make the game better by fixing bugs or adding more content then fine thats great. However, the minute they start nerfing the gameplay to force players to play the way the developers want is the day I cancel my subsription!!!
I see your point.. but I believe they are billing the game more to PVP and less to mining. I also believe that there are more paying PVPers then paying 'Sim Miner 3000 players'.
The conclusion is that they are trying to make the game more fluid and amenable to spurious fighting; less to 23/7 afk miners.
It's fully in-line with their stated design.
I think we should see what exactly they do before blasting them.. it might be something as small as a tax based on ship weight.
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Jolo
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Posted - 2003.11.07 18:06:00 -
[54]
Quote:
The conclusion is that they are trying to make the game more fluid and amenable to spurious fighting; less to 23/7 afk miners.
It's fully in-line with their stated design.
I think we should see what exactly they do before blasting them.. it might be something as small as a tax based on ship weight.
this is a joke right? when has CCp ever done anything in this game to HELP PVP. Insurence...ok that was good. Implants, bad, no megacyte, bad, broken ore repsawn (no we can't afford to build ships) bad, push pirates into super non-empire space, bad.
honeslty, you say they bill this as a PVP game but every change has been for the worst when it comes to PVP.
I don't see the problem with making bistot easier to get, and more plentiful. Then we could actually afford to loose ships, and we could start having PVP fun. It still takes members of my corp weeks to months just to get a Battleship, and that's not cool. Megacorps shouldn't be the only people to be able to build battleships for war.
and to those who say go cruiser or frigate fighting...with 3 people online at once, how do frigates or crusiers take on multiple battleships in PVP. You can't, theref or we mine and mine and mine in 1.0 because we can't risk 0.0 for 120 units of bistot.
FIX THE ORE ISSUE
GIVE US THE POWER TO AFFORD PVP
And where the hell is the patch, it's been over a month now.
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.11.07 18:27:00 -
[55]
Quote:
"Simple solution: Make your own game."
In before the obligatory "Play the Sims" =)
Lilad altered his post to say go play this sims before your post... that's against the board ROE, sir.
As for this link... if Lewis Carrol made a MMOG... oy, my eyes hurt from reading the Intro alone, hahh.
Oh no.
I feel a poetry post coming on... and it's all YOUR FAULT!
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Lliad
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Posted - 2003.11.07 18:36:00 -
[56]
Quote:
Lilad altered his post to say go play this sims before your post... that's against the board ROE, sir.
Go back and look again 
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Amorex
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Posted - 2003.11.07 18:49:00 -
[57]
The easy ay to solv a strip mining in high sec. systems is to make a mining laser a new type of turret hard point, and implaiment a new type of ships - mining ship. And problem is solved, every one will be hapy, miners will get there mining ships not battleships ( that are ment to fight not to mine ), strip mining will dissapier, noobs are happy.
Is it so hard?
In one of my post a said that Dev's a driven by someone very reach in RL, and obey his wishs. Now this idie is more realistic become in my head. What will be nerfed next better say it now Hellmar, don't strech rubber.
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Singular
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Posted - 2003.11.07 18:56:00 -
[58]
mmmmmm, death to many a carebear will surely follow.
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Jolo
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Posted - 2003.11.07 19:00:00 -
[59]
Quote:
mmmmmm, death to many a carebear will surely follow.
Pretty much my corp has been saving up ore to build battleships for months now. Our only purpose in life right now is to kill Singular. too bad it takes so long to get ships ready for PVP...i love spending months build a single ship!
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SUNchaser
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Posted - 2003.11.07 19:01:00 -
[60]
NEWS FLASH !!!!!! EVE developers propose first scordite protection zone. After learning that scortdite was not being allowed to grow to gigantic proportions EVE developers have decided that an area must be set aside within the universe to ensure future generations can enjoy these monstrosities just as the early pioneers in the Empire did.
Therefore soon all 1.0 Empire space will be declared a NO HUNTING, TRAPPING, or SHOOTING Zone for all of these magnificant scordite asteroids. In a few short weeks we will all be able to enjoy the sight of house sized scordite asteroids in a neighborhood near you.
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