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Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.11.06 23:51:00 -
[1]
I've recently read Hellmars remarks about nerfing mining in 1.0 space to force players to mine in 0.0 space.
I am very irritated and frankly ****ed off by this idea. I bought Eve so that I could play it the way I want and not the way the game developers think I should play it.
If they want to make the game better by fixing bugs or adding more content then fine thats great. However, the minute they start nerfing the gameplay to force players to play the way the developers want is the day I cancel my subsription!!!
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
Lliad
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Posted - 2003.11.06 23:52:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lliad on 07/11/2003 18:36:54
Edited by: Lliad on 07/11/2003 00:13:45
Bye
ps go play the sims
No **** sherlock
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Slinky Redfoot
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:01:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
I am very irritated and frankly ****ed off by this idea. I bought Eve so that I could play it the way I want and not the way the game developers think I should play it.
Simple solution: Make your own game.
Got Banana? |
Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:04:00 -
[4]
Your missing the my point.
Here's a simple question.
How would you like it if I was standing behind your back while you were playing Eve and I forced you to play the way I wanted you to.
Do you think you would like that? No I dont think so.
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
Hematic
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:05:00 -
[5]
Your just seeing this now?
CCP are getting pretty heavy handed with the freight-training mentality.
But then again until it's one big homoginized universe they won't be happy.
If you don't like being led down the road of inevitability then MMOs in general aren't for you.
Anything new or different will be removed or nerfed, count on it.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:05:00 -
[6]
"Simple solution: Make your own game."
In before the obligatory "Play the Sims" =)
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MyLittleHelper
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:07:00 -
[7]
Im sure CCP devs cant sleep at night thinking, Jake Solnich is gonna cancel his subscription cause they didnt make the game to his specifications.
I agee with Lilad - Bye
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Lliad
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:13:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lliad on 07/11/2003 00:14:15
Quote:
In before the obligatory "Play the Sims" =)
Look up
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:15:00 -
[9]
"Look up "
... Damn the edit function... *sighs*
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Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:22:00 -
[10]
Im sure CCP devs cant sleep at night thinking, Jake Solnich is gonna cancel his subscription cause they didnt make the game to his specifications.
Too bad your not intelligent enough to see the point I'm trying to make here.
This has nothing to do with how I want the game to be designed. It's about giving the players a choice to play the way they want.
As it is devs are hearding the players along with one nerf after another until they see fit that the players are playing the way they want.
Fine, if you like someone telling you how to play a game then knock yourself out. I guess some people like being told what to do.
I for one like to think for myself and make my own choices without being led around like a child.
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
Zinke
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:23:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zinke on 07/11/2003 00:38:57
For all fo you who say go play sims i say go **** yourself and shout up if you got nothing to say.
He is right.
I see couple of pirate wannabes there and they think there will be mroe meat for them but what they are forgeting is that they'll have to get out of empire too.
Hellmar's remarks are one of the most stupid i have ever heard.
Solving problem with non-spawning high level ores by nerfing low level ores is funny at least.
I would like nothing more then let CCP go through with it but i stood here and laught at they stupid implementation for so long that i missed lots of people leaving this game.
And i have no intention of letting them screw it up beyond reparation.
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Galk
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:32:00 -
[12]
Remember the mentality of the people your dealing with here jake.
Your views bother them so much, aside from telling you they ain't botherd, yet they take the time to reply.
Pathetic in the extreme.
You have to remember, when the likes of tank and his ilk come on here with points of view in the extreme, lilad and his like are the very same people that agree with his points of view.
There just yanking your chain man, pathetic yes, but then again, thats eve...
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Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/ |
Jolo
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:32:00 -
[13]
I actually agree with what he's saying. Games like this are said to be player driven, yet CCP seems to like drasically changing parts of teh game that are really half of what the game itself is made up of.
Sure we have aplayer driven market, and player driven choices to where we go and what we do.
But CCP likes to think that "small" nerfs to roid layout isn't that big a deal, when the entire game focuses around it.
My solution: Fix the PROBLEM I see now with broken roid respawns. Entire systems get cleaned out and never respawn. This includes bistot in far reaches of space. I don't care too much about 0.9 systems never growing again. But when I DO RISK my ship for that bistot, at least fix the BUG that causes them to be babies.
TomB says it will get fixed when deep core mining comes into play..goodie. Can't wait for those 5 months!
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MyLittleHelper
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:37:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Too bad your not intelligent enough to see the point I'm trying to make here.
I understand perfectly well what your saying.
You want risk free 1.0 profitable mining (can be the equivilant of mining bistot in 0.0 space in terms of profit, plus less distance to haul it to be sold)
You want an easy life with the cash flow coming in with no risk whatsoever. Well wake up and smell the roses mate, isk = risk and Im glad CCP are changing the ability to mine risk free and make a hella profit.
Same goes with jump in camping. Its practically risk free pvp that can be profitable if your in the right spot. (Unless a huge force comes but then you just run for it while they load)
And guess what theyre nerfing that too (Gate point jump-in) and well done to em, all they need to do is remove sent guns from 0.4 secs and under tho to balance it out for pirates.
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Aethelgrin
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:42:00 -
[15]
I think Jake's missing the point.
The reason these changes are being made is because of the effect on the wider economy 1.0 mining is having on the game. THAT is what's forcing players into narrow-scope gameplay. Want a battleship and lots of resources, join a big corp. That's the only way to do it as long as there's no incentive for mid-level corps to increase the supply of Megacyte.
Your gameplay style is having unintended consequences as the result of a design oversight, and that oversight is being corrected. Any correction to the game is bound to alienate some players who thought that feature was the best part of the game, but for the broader player-base the changes are welcomed.
All MMOGs go through this in their first year. The economic effects of having thousands of players are rarely foreseen (and won't be until dev teams start including economists), just as the gameplay effects and tactics and load can't be tested until we all start playing en masse.
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.07 00:42:00 -
[16]
Nerfs like the 1.0 deal are pretty unnecessary anyway if all CCP wants to do is make production more hazardous.
We producers still need to venture into 0.0 space or hire those who will to harvest the "critical" minerals of Nocxium, Zydrine and Megacyte in any decent quanity.
With the poor choice of roid types in 1.0 space (Veldspar, Scordite, some Pyro and Plag) its pretty clear people aren't getting rich there anyway. On a cost per unit basis mining Tritanium in higher security systems is profitable because your not expending alot to get it (I mine in .6 space and still the ammo expended isn't that great). Yet if we have to mine it in 0.0 space the entire equation is out the window.
While I see they are trying to balance the minerals they've always said 1.0 empire space is for the non-pvp crowd who likes to mine and produce. Thats been accepted. So why now force those same people into the low-security systems?
Calladen Nimitz
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Jolo
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:10:00 -
[17]
i'll tell you why the economy sucks. it's cause the game has bugs in it. Megacyte can't be gotten is huge quantities like it used to( i can jump 60 jumps and have a hard time find a roid of bistot with over 20 units in it). This is why no one mines in 0.0 anymore, because it sucks! I made much more killing the rats in the belt and recycling the items, than I do now mining the 200 units of bistot per sytstem. The game is bugged, roids do NOT respawn right, TomB admited it, he says it will get fixed "eventually"
So...some items are way too expensive and others are dirt cheap because of poor implimentation (see miner II price crash, not that it's bad...it's a 36K isk item... but still it was a crash)
You blame the players when it's really just bugs and poor feature implimentation.
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Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:13:00 -
[18]
Let me remind those who are unaware of the real problem with the asteroid resources since some have forgotten.
Here is a quote from a CSM on September 17th by TomB on this very subject.
Quote:
EVE I > It is believed that asteroid belts can only "carry" a maximum amount of ore, like 100,000m3 for example. It is also believed that all asteroids grow over time. As the high ores (crokite, bistot) are mined out of a belt, the low ores keep growing until the total max volume of the belt is reached and there is no more "room" for the higher ores to grow into. This explains the countless systems that have bistot rocks of 4-15 units each. Can you confirm that this is how the asteroid belts operate? If so what is being done to correct this? If not then what is the mechanics and the cause of the "micro roid" problem?
Darksheer > !
Greyhound > ??
EVE I > ! means u got a question and want a turn
Civil Deity > grey i think ?'s and !'s are all met with !'s... not sure ? is recognized
Jash Illian > !
Civil Deity > like in our stain meets
EVE I > also hush until Pann invites u to speak
TomB > YEs this currently works like this, just a faulty balance on the distribution system which will get fixed when we introduce deep core mining.
TomB > The problem is that there is bad balance on amount of roid types and the amount of units distributed into the world.
TomB > Very few people have for example seen Arkanor roids, but finding one will resolve in almost endless amount.
TomB > ...of units inside that Arkanor roid.
Bottom line is the real problem with the asteroid spawn balance needs to be fixed!!!
This whole situation is clearly starting to show CCP's incompetence and my patience is starting to wear thin.
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:13:00 -
[19]
As much as I have ****ed and moaned about the inevitable nerfing of empire space strip mining or battleship AFK mining or whatever the hell you call it. I do see and realize that nerfing this type of mining is REQUIRED. Even though I have made 100's of millions using this method I believe that because of it we are really causing a major imbalance in the EVE community. As it stands right now I have no real reason to go into 0.0 space, or manufacture, or trade items, or hunt NPCs, or do missions. I can make hell of a lot more ISK mining in the same amount of time than I EVER could doing those other things. Even mining in 0.0 or heck even 0.4 or below is not worth it just because of the "potential" risk involved. The risk vs gain is just too great to really even leave 0.5. I can just stay safe and sound and mine everything. Strip a belt, make 25mil or more in a solid day of mining with the fellas and then buy 4 more basic implants for the new guys or do it the next day then buy another Dominix or Scorpian.
So nerfing this would FORCE me to move on and find another way to funnel my entrepreneurial energies elsewhere. Maybe manufacturing, maybe hunting, maybe mining or raiding in 0.0. As it stands right now though EVE is heading for a blackhole of extremes divided into 2 camps. Those that pirate, fight pirates and live on the edge and those that have nothing to do with that and miserly stock up wealth and resources. With little or no interaction between the two groups save for some market transactions.
Posting for Numbnutz |
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:19:00 -
[20]
The thing is if you just mine Bistot and nothing else then the other roids will grow instead of Bistot filling that 100,000m3 capacity. Leaving baby Bistot rocks. I've actually tried to farm omber recently by mining all the lower ores around it and leaving the omber behind. Hehehe it works (to some extent).
Posting for Numbnutz |
Primer Xenius
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:29:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Bottom line is the real problem with the asteroid spawn balance needs to be fixed!!!
This whole situation is clearly starting to show CCP's incompetence and my patience is starting to wear thin
Indeed the bug needs to be fixed and it will be. However, the current situation is FAR better than having all the mineral in plentiful supplies as was once the case. Remember the issue here is people getting there ores TOO easy in empire space. The fact that CCP have DELIBERATELY left the bug in the game till now is primarily because the rarity of mega and zydrine drives up prices and makes the 1.0 miners lose some of their profits to the 0.0 miners that take risk. A much more realistic situation.
There is no mega or zydrine problem, your just going to pay 12K isk for our mega because we risk our ships in 0.0.
I fail to see why someone would bother quiting over this.
"we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
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Cortex Reaver
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:31:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Your missing the my point.
Here's a simple question.
How would you like it if I was standing behind your back while you were playing Eve and I forced you to play the way I wanted you to.
Do you think you would like that? No I dont think so.
I'd turn around and kick your pencil-necked ass. What are you gonna do about it?
-CR
/*
Cortex Reaver
crtxreavr at trioptimum dot com
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759
*/ |
DalamarS
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:33:00 -
[23]
I'm not one to post much here, but I think that you fail to understand that Empire space is just that, EMPIRE space. CCP for all intents and purposes is the Empire in Empire space. If I showed up on your property with a convoy of trucks and dozers to strip mine YOUR land you wouldn't put up with it would you? Why should the Empires? CCP has every right to act as the Empires and balance the economy out. Right now there is a MASSIVE imbalance and it needs attention.
No game will ever be totally player driven because players cannot be on 24hrs a day, and cannot be expected to coordinate massive policy because that is just NOT fun. Try running a corp with 50 or more players and you will quickly learn that YOU should be paid for it, not be paying for it. CCP are the gamemasters of this universe, and they can strike you down with the Holy Pulse Laser if you abuse the system. It is their job to keep the universe in check. Anyone who has ever been a GM in a RPG can relate to that statement.
CEO
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MyLittleHelper
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:40:00 -
[24]
Hang on a minute Jake, now youve changed from your original post.
Quote:
I've recently read Hellmars remarks about nerfing mining in 1.0 space to force players to mine in 0.0 space.
I am very irritated and frankly ****ed off by this idea. I bought Eve so that I could play it the way I want and not the way the game developers think I should play it.
Your clearly stating you like to mine in 1.0 or whatever space at no risk, and that as soon as CCP force you to go mine elsewhere you'll quit.
Now your stating that its the roid bugs fault.
Ok I can see the roid bug as a growing issue, but frankly that has nothing to do with your original post your angry at the fact that your being pushed outa 1.0 risk free mining to do some real work to earn that isk. (Or so your original post states)
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Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:43:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jake Solnich on 07/11/2003 01:47:20
Edited by: Jake Solnich on 07/11/2003 01:46:02
Quote:
Your clearly stating you like to mine in 1.0 or whatever space at no risk, and that as soon as CCP force you to go mine elsewhere you'll quit.
Your sadly mistaken, I never said that!
And I'm not angry about being pushed out of 1.0 space.
I'm angry that they are trying to fix their screw ups by blaming it on the players and unecessarily nerfing more of the gameplay that isn't even broke!!!
CCP NEEDS TO FIX WHAT IS ALREADY BROKEN!!! NOT BREAK MORE STUFF BY NERFING MORE GAMEPLAY!!!
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
MyLittleHelper
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:48:00 -
[26]
Try re-reading your post then..
Quote:
I've recently read Hellmars remarks about nerfing mining in 1.0 space to force players to mine in 0.0 space.
I am very irritated and frankly ****ed off by this idea
What does that say then if it doesnt say your ****ed off with CCP forcing you outa 1.0 mining risk free and into lower lvl sectors with a risk??
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Auror
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:50:00 -
[27]
I'd be curious to see if anyone has firm, verifiable data concerning regrowth of rares/semi-rares in farmed 'roid fields. Is there someone present in the farmed belt 23/7 to ensure no one else is mining out the baby roids? Do they have firm rates of growth in measurable increments of time?
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MyLittleHelper
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:50:00 -
[28]
Quote:
nerfing more of the gameplay that isn't even broke!!!
It is broke though, cant you see.
YOUR MAKING A FAIRLY LARGE PROFIT AT NO RISK!
Whats the incentive to goto lower lvl sectors to mine if theres money to be made in 1.0 sectors and a lot of it?!?!
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Jake Solnich
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Posted - 2003.11.07 01:51:00 -
[29]
MyLittleHelper, you clearly do not agree with my position. This is fine by me. I can live with other people having different views of opinion.
I just ask that you try not to twist what I said into something else.
I would rather die a free man than live as a slave. |
MyLittleHelper
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Posted - 2003.11.07 02:00:00 -
[30]
Im not twisting anything, Im merely stating what you've said in your original posts and that your wrong.
Isk = Risk
Thats the way it should be 1.0 mining doesnt include any risk whatsoever, especially when you strip mine belts quickly to make large profits from it.
All CCP are doing is forcing the issue of isk = risk, the way it is with everything else in the game such as NPC hunting / bounty hunting / rare ore mining etc. People have taken advantage of the safety of 1.0 space mining by AFK indy mining, which is wrong and not the way CCP intended.
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