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cloudkey
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.06 06:28:00 -
[31]
I train half a years for use T2 ammo,so now ccp said T2 ammo nerf?
its unfair for me.
if t2 ammo damage only little better than T1 in kali,can i ask ccp compensate for my $$$$?coz i have train half a year but i get almost noting better!!
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xeom
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.11.06 06:44:00 -
[32]
Awesome! Why spend months specing on t2 ships when t1 beats it everytime?!?!
F*** Spec'ing,better to fly every races with t1 because its all about the same yay \o/!
I really hope they fix this.I didn't spend 2 months training for a command ship some some 3 week old n00b can come in and hand my a** to me.
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"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
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Mesasone
Gallente
Vogon Deconstruction Fleet
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.06 07:11:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Mesasone on 06/11/2006 07:12:13
 Originally by: Mallakk
Edited by: Mallakk on 05/11/2006 15:43:06
did you even read the OP post ?
Quote:
T2 ships almost have the same HP as the T1 version and some T2 ammo had already a bad penalty and on Kali it's even worse.
...
For example a HAC is around 30x as expensive as the T1 version so why not make it at least worth the isk ?
No, I guess I didn't read the whole thing  Drunk posting 4tw I guess
It's great not being Amarr, ain't it? |
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.06 07:51:00 -
[34]
To sum things up, Tech 2 producers are all singing "Its the end of the world as we know it..." after seeing the kali changes. Anything that hurts T2 producers, more of it please :)
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Peppy LePew
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Posted - 2006.11.06 08:20:00 -
[35]
Originally by: xeom
Awesome! Why spend months specing on t2 ships when t1 beats it everytime?!?!
F*** Spec'ing,better to fly every races with t1 because its all about the same yay \o/!
I really hope they fix this.I didn't spend 2 months training for a command ship some some 3 week old n00b can come in and hand my a** to me.
What makes you think that any 3 week old character has a chance in hell of beating a command ship? Honestly. You won't even need t2 weapons AT ALL to stomp them flat, even with the HP boost.
And let me remind you what command ships were designed for: Fleet support. And they do a fantastic job of it, and will continue to do so after Kali. So some t1 ships might be on-par with it damage wise? OH NO. That won't make your ship any worse for the role it was designed for, and you will probably still tank better.
That being said, even I am not 100% in agreement with the nerf, but it is still quite plain as day that the gap between t1 and t2 is incredibly wide. CCP has made some very nice steps in the right direction with the recent T2 ships though and the "nerf" doesn't affect them much, ie: command ships and the race specific EWAR ships which are all very effective at fulfilling a specific role. Their potential damage output may become a bit lower but they will still excel with their unique bonuses and remain "better than t1" in that aspect. I hope to see more ships like these as they are great regardless of their DPS, and I'm sorry if you don't see it that way.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.06 11:25:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Benglada
I fought a deimos yesterday in my hurricane, i had zero nos and i killed him before he broke my shield (and i had a duel rep armor tank)
Did he screw up or was that a fair indication of the current situation?
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NMTZ forum |
Lunanie
Final-Vendetta
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Posted - 2006.11.06 11:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Matrix Aran
To sum things up, Tech 2 producers are all singing "Its the end of the world as we know it..." after seeing the kali changes. Anything that hurts T2 producers, more of it please :)
I think most of the people that posted on this topic are T2 users that paid a lot of isk and training time to use T2 ships and ammo.
My point is that the 'gab' between T1 and T2 is fine with me atm (except the t2 snipe ammo maybe in some cases)
T2 should be uber, T2 vet's should be able to wtfpwn T1 noobs otherwise the game would be over after a year.
And with some good expirence and suprising setups T1 cruisers can kill HAC's (look on the killboards what people can do with T1 ships)
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Thayder
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Posted - 2006.11.06 12:02:00 -
[38]
i just spent half of the last year training and 460m in fittings for my t2 battlecruiser. if a five month player can come in, spend 200m and have a ship that i cant pwn before my shields are gone then there is a problem. this game is a bunch of people sitting in a big black box with pretty little stars in it. there is no plot or storyline my character is invested in, just a bunch of people hanging out and interacting. when there is little difference between what i am today and what i can be afew months from now, then there is no reason for me to keep playing. id rather just go play wow or bf. t2 should be a great deal better then t1 simply because it costs many times more and takes far more skills. reducing the gap between old and young makes me paying for another nine months less appealing.
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.06 12:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lunanie
T2 should be uber, T2 vet's should be able to wtfpwn T1 noobs otherwise the game would be over after a year.
Exactly. If the older players cannot seperate themselves from the new ones through training and the isk they spend then whats the point? We would al be on a level playing field using generic equipment with almost the same stats regardless of what was put into it.
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iqplayer
Caldari
Dragon's Rage
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:57:00 -
[40]
You cannot compare apples to oranges and get a realistic idea of how things will work when applied in real situations. IE, comparing HP to resists only tells half of the story. The problem that I've always seen with using increased resists to lengthen battles is that it also increases repair abilities. HP boosts don't (or, if you get really picky, they do a bit by perhaps allowing an extra activation of a rep/booster).
Giving T1 ships a 50% HP boost to the 25% T2 boost does narrow the gap between the 2 ships. But arguing that it makes T2 ships the same as T1? I think you're taking an unrealistically narrow view of the situation. Some T2 ships get much better resists - some don't. Those that don't though, typically get bonus's that make them very useful in other ways - ECM for example? Again, very hard to compare the T1 to T2 here just based on HP.
Finally, how can you compare the a larger T1 ship with a smaller class T2? I mean, do we *really* want any T2 ship to pwn *any* T1, regardless of size? For some really interesting comparisons, how about a Deimos vs. a Thorax? 2 Deimos vs a T1 BC? 2 Deimos vs a T1 BC in contrast to 2 Thorax vs a T1 BC? Yes, I do think smaller ships *should* be able to take down larger ships, *but* they should have some trouble doing it. That might mean having to use 2 smaller ships to kill the larger ship.
Finally, using T2 prices to justify their abilities is an odd argument as well - since the prices of T2 ships have been created by players, via demand and willingness to pay those prices. Saying that they should have a certain ability just because someone is willing to pay the high price.......... interesting.
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Dreamdancer
Minmatar
Ceryshen Strategic Analysis
Vanu Space Command
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:25:00 -
[41]
I heard they were denerfing some of the T2 ammo actually. Though that was a couple weeks back and could have been totally wrong.
I have had Hail S BPO for quite awhile and it has been worthless as no one in their right mind would ever use it. Has to be used in a T2 autocannon but has a 20% stackable velocity penalty? The poor little frig would never make it into range to fire before getting toasted. Been holding on to my token T2 BPO in hopes that one day it would be valueable.
Anyone seen what the stats on Hail S are on the test server?
We are recruiting! |
Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:50:00 -
[42]
As for ships, T2 ships should only be as powerful as the next ship class above them, while maintaining the bonuses of the their current class. This means T2 cruisers should be on par with T1 BC's. AF's should be on par with Cruisers (Destroyers, if CCP would ever make them a viable class  ) and Intercepters do about the damage of T1 frigs (their bonus is speed/agility)
As for why are they nerfing T2 ammo, it's because a lot of people would be up in arms if they removed it, which is what they should do.
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Vampire Lord
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Posted - 2006.11.06 17:42:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Vampire Lord on 06/11/2006 17:46:42
I just want to cuss like a salor. How about I play for 3 years an my T2 gear hits only just a little bit harder then the new guys. Why nurf. It's not about helping out the 2month old guy feel better about be 2 months old. I thought this was the only game that really made a statment. A Vet is a Vet. Nerfing T2 guns Makes this game closer to WOW. How about I play a game for 2-3 weeks an get lvl 60. Plz Don't take away what people have worked hard to get by taking our power to destroy those thay have not been playing that long fast. What's the point of training so many skills an giving so much time to become t2 so it can be nurfed. Not to add all the extra hitpoint everybody is getting. It's a real big nerf to T2 guns when you really think about it. I like that fact that I could WTF own BS's in 30-45s becuase they just are not T2 fitted. An 2-3Min fights with the vets. Less if they aren't tanked.
An to the Next. T2 ships need to get a bonus to Hitpoint also to even out the increase of T1 ships. Man why play for so long if I'm really not gona get much bonus for it. An on top of it the only thing that maid me feel ok about flying minmatar is being taken away. The DPS.. An your double nurfing the ammo. It's bad enough with the ammo killing speed. which kills minmatar ability to move fast an do dps. Now we just move slow an not so much with the dps. Plz don't screw minmatar again. I mean if we don't have DPS what do we have.. A shield boost 
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2006.11.06 18:23:00 -
[44]
Many people will train a skill to level five for just a 2% advantage in a particular facet of combat or industry. It matters not if t2 is 200% better than t1 or 10% better so long as it is better it is worth training for.
Experience counts for almost nothing and regardless of SP it comes down to who's willing to risk the most isk. This and the huge imbalance between the two allows the "vets" to rely on killing t1 fitted players to keep the kill/death ratios in their favour.
I feel a talented (not skilled) player in a well fitted t1 ship should be able to defeat an ebayer who just bought an account with a command ship and t2 fittings. Sadly for the most part this is not the case the older character will almost always out-damage and out-tank even a skilled t1 fitted player.
Price is no justification for t2 being "uber" the best equipment always costs a fortune regardless of how much better than the standard kit it is. Supply and demand.
(please note that all of the above comments apply to evenly matched numbers on both sides sides, outnumbering your opponents is an entirely different kettle of fish)
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