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Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:19:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
How stupid do you have to be to think that people are in high sec because of your boring unimaginative unchallanging missions.
They're in high sec because they dont want to participate in the already mentioned lagfest, the boring PvP and non-existant market that is in 0.0 space and the stupid game mechanics like logoff, lag traps, gate camp ganking, deliberate POS lagging tactics and flying around with cans of BM's which is all blessed and allowed by CCP.
QFT
Sorry to say but Eve PVP sucks.
Today I spent 3 f*ckin hours in a gang, and the combined time when we had contact with the enemy was like 45 seconds.
Used to think mish runners are morons, now I think they're the smart ones.
At least the NPC's don't spend most of their time in a safespot.
Keep agents profitable and in highsec, because if this garbage keeps going on any longer, I might have to start running missions just to be able to shoot something without having it warp away.
Did it ever occur to you that your "targets" are in a safespot specifically because you are in a friggen blob?
Duh... what moron is going to stick around in a belt to get mobbed when a fleet pops in system?
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:21:00 -
[32]
Er, not all lvl4s are in low-sec or 0.0. I have not 1 but 3 lvl4 Fed Nav agents of decent quality I use, all in high sec.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Even with my high skills in industry, it cost me 7 million isk to make a thorax last night, that is buying from the market all the minerals I needed. The region average for a thorax is 5 million....
Erm... roshan:
- Mine the minerals yourself
- Put buy orders at lower prices at stations where miners frequent. Often they will quicksell to you and you get nearly a 50% discount.
- Go rat or run missions and melt loot for the minerals you need.
All of the above will net you minerals free or at a greatly reduced price. Folks selling Thorax for 4-5 mil aren't BUYING minerals off the market. they're doing one of the above... or they're getting minerals from corp ops.
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Infinity Ziona
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:29:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Fred0
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
How stupid do you have to be to think that people are in high sec because of your boring unimaginative unchallanging missions.
We'll count that as a vote for removing them then.
Thats fine. I do all my missions in low sec. But Im not so socially inept that I cant figure out how to kill people in high sec without whining and *****ing for CCP to force them to come to me.
Go ******* get them if you hate them that much.
The Privateering Life |
Zissou
5 November
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:48:00 -
[35]
I hope the location services provided by lvl 4 agents will be changed if they are nerfed from 0.5 and above.
Its quite handy having a lvl 4 locator nearby the hub systems. Moving them all to low sec would make a difficult job almost impossible (without making a lvl 4 capable alt sit in a system 23/7).
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Agent missions should be phased out...all except the newbie ones and maybe level one. Here is why...
ISK...When they started, the miners left the belts to earn more isk...which in turn allowed the macros to dominate the mineral market.
Loot...Missions droped better loot then tech I manufactures could produce. Even though they have been nerfed, players rather run missions and refine the loot then mine.
Empire space...nuff said...
Even with my high skills in industry, it cost me 7 million isk to make a thorax last night, that is buying from the market all the minerals I needed. The region average for a thorax is 5 million....
Phase out these missions...at least move them where they wont effect the game as bad as they have.
You must be insane to suggest your play style over other people's play style. Just because it takes you "one night" to produce a Thorax or whatever.
If you do know anything about running missions, they are a great way to make isk for people that prefer a safer type of gameplay, for people that don't have the 3 hrs, someone above mentinoed to find a person to shoot at in PvP, for people that do not choose to develop their "Industrial skills" such as you have but have PvE skills, i.e. good fighting skills, wihtout doing PvP.
With all that said, the loot from missions, is NOTHING to replace mining for mass production. At best is just a basic level of minerals that you get, since the items dropped in missions are mostly crap.
If you have a quarrel with microminers, do take it with them, but do not say that you see, by running missions you can replace mining for production and destroy the market for minerals.. that's just ridiculous IMO. 
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Fred0
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
How stupid do you have to be to think that people are in high sec because of your boring unimaginative unchallanging missions.
We'll count that as a vote for removing them then.
Thats fine. I do all my missions in low sec. But Im not so socially inept that I cant figure out how to kill people in high sec without whining and *****ing for CCP to force them to come to me.
Go ******* get them if you hate them that much.
As Infinity Ziona said, if you have a problem with people not "sticking" in your 0.0 or low sec belts.. well it's mostly your fault.. a more aggressive play style from pirates results in an even more closed gamestyle by people that choose not to do PvP or like risk. It's only normal.
Instead of whining, try being creative with the game! If you're in 0.0, there should be enough targets for you already, you only need to move 5 systems + or - to get some good ones.. oh wait, they will probably be prepared and waiting for you too.. oh well.. nothing like those stuuuupidd n00b missions runners, eh?...
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Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:12:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Mtthias Clemi on 06/11/2006 16:14:50
In my eyes people living in empire is equivilent to staying in the noob areas in another mmo... its just not the same game..
and if your worried that having to move into 0.0 would affect your fps somehow... i dont even understand.. surely with less people in the system and more sytems to choose from would make your game run faster with less lag than otherwise..( my gameplay is always much smoother and easier in 0.0 than in empire anyway) in any case im quite sure this game was never meant to be PVE intensive.. (in fact i question why someone wants to play an online game at all if alls they want to do is do missions) so getting people to move into low sec and away from the overcrowded overused centres, which would be much more usefull if they were used soley for trading and as a base for newer players and corps, is a good thing.. no?
I dont understand why CCP should have to keep thier game suitable for those with systems than can only run EVE at 25 fps... (i get 50+ on my laptop, running 2 clients) when the most recent games that they have to compete with have reccomended requirements streching into the 1gb ram, X series radeon card, stages..
EDIT: And why may i ask, in a game based on a system of risk V reward should it be possible to make money safe in empire than out in 0.0 space? or low sec? it doesent make much sense and certainly doesent fit with the spirit of confrontation and challange in the game.
Sorry i went on a bit of rant there, if i have somewhow misunderstood you have my apologies.
My sig was nerfed.. im not happy -Mtt
I hate mods |
Daktor
The Galactic Trade Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:24:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Gats
fyi there is no P4 cpu that runs @ 600 mhz stock speed , P4 came after the p3 1 ghz .
And there is more then just the cpu that effects your performance .
Then it's a P3, but I still get better performance than the original poster. He has major computer issues.
And back on topic: Move all L4 agents to low sec, I need more free time in my life.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:32:00 -
[40]
I have no problem moving the Tier 4 agents to lowsec. I think it's a great idea actually. It'll thin out the crowds in high sec and put the tier 4 missions where they belong in the order of risks vs. rewards. It shouldn't be more profitable to stay in high sec than it is to exist in lowsec. Ever. Tier 4 missions should be in .3 systems or lower.
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Taram Caldar
Caldari
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:40:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tyler Lowe
I would, however, like to point out that the users, such as myself, that currently play in a less "interactive" manner (read PvE), due to constraints of client peformance, would be left with very little to keep us entertained.
For reference, on a good night, I look forward to a relatively lag free evening of running missions at 17 frames per second interupted periodically by screen freezes. If the removal of GtG bookmarks creates a *massive* improvement in my game play experience, I would drop mission running in a heartbeat.
1) Server side lag has nothing whatsoever to do with FPS... what are you using to measure FPS? BM's cause server side lag. As do large buddy lists. (though they also cause client side lag while the client and server talk but that's seen more as a 'freeze' in game play than an FPS hit)
2) On my old P4 1.4ghz system with a lousy GeForce 5700 card I get better FPS than that (measured by FRAPPS) when running missions (in the upper 20's actually). going to 0.0 my FPS is better than in missions because there's a lot less clutter in the system (in the 30's). On a newer P4 3.2ghz system with a GeForce 6800 in it I get FPS in the 30-40 range w/o any issues whatsoever and with all the bells and whistles in the game turned on (and some extras turned on on the video card itself).
If you're having such bad FPS then you have much more serious problems with your system than any performance from EVE... I'd recommend updating your drivers and/or getting a new video card. Also... EVE's performance relies HEAVILY on system ram because the engine doesn't handle video ram quite right. More system ram does more to improve EVE's performance even than a Video card so if your video card is relatively modern then get more RAM.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.11.06 21:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Did it ever occur to you that your "targets" are in a safespot specifically because you are in a friggen blob?
Duh... what moron is going to stick around in a belt to get mobbed when a fleet pops in system?
Well that's kind of a stupid statement because one side or the other always has more ships.
I bring 5 you bring 10 I bring 20.
So what, nobody's even gonna engage?
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Soumk
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Posted - 2006.11.06 21:42:00 -
[43]
I think CCP should move all agents to areas where pirates can gang them easier.
It's only fair.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.11.06 21:56:00 -
[44]
Piracy is like running around breaking shop windows.
Yes its fun, but it can't sustain itself. Everybody and his brother is a pirate, and they're running out of shop windows to break.
Dragging carebears into lowsec to give pirates more action would work in the short term.
What happens when those carebears leave?
Then you're back to having no targets.
At some point CCP is going to have to decide whether Eve should have a PVE game or not.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.11.06 23:01:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Cipher7
Dragging carebears into lowsec to give pirates more action would work in the short term.
What happens when those carebears leave?
They are supposed to shoot back, not leave.
So-called 'carebear' industry and NPCing should be a viable profession, but especially in low sec, not to the exclusion of all else! They are supposed to organise an early warning system of some sort, have people keeping their eyes open while travelling, mine and run missions in multirole gangs, start up a gang if a hostile-looking cruiser pops into Local, pay a local nasty corp a subscription to counter any war dec they receive. Maybe train PVP alts on second accounts? Maybe use their imaginations to come up with ideas better than ones which any random forum warrior can roll out?
I simply don't buy the argument that PVPers give non-PVPers who enter low sec no option but to log out and never return.
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BlackMoon Thrawn
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.06 23:27:00 -
[46]
It's not about pirates wanting more targets. It's about the stupid amount of isk you can make while risking nothing. I have been living in 0.0 for several months now and the best isk I ever made was running level 4 missions in .8 space.
TBH it will probobly be bad for alot of pirates. People will get ganked alot early on but, they will learn from that and setup intel channels. They will band together to drive pirates out of thier systems and convoy thier stuff into empire to sell.
The only people this will really hurt are teh ones that dont want any interaction with other players. The thing is, they will still be able to do the same thing they are now just with an appropriate risk.
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Jason Kildaro
Minmatar
Synergy Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.06 23:37:00 -
[47]
I think we need to look at the changes as a whole...not in a vacuum. For instance, and keep in mind I'm just speculating but bear with me, if this low sec agent move is real we must consider a couple of things that make this a smart decision..
1. If warp to 0 is implemented then maybe the "carebears" will be more willing to go into low sec anyway. I think the average newbie is more afraid of gate camps than anything else, take away that threat and maybe they won't be so afraid to jump out there. We can take this further and add...
2. Because invention will have people using factories and so on to make their new items this will cause even more incentive to push people out of Empire because they will be looking for empty factories and labs to do this new invention stuff.
3. Rigs may be at a high price in the beginning but I think after a while it will either force tech 2 to come down in price or force the price of bigger tech 1 ships down. Either way people will not be so afraid to travel if they can pack on more armor and guns than before. Again this result in more confidence in new players to come to low sec. Right now, I think there is a common misconception that low sec pilots all fly battleships and HAC's but if they think that thier ships can survive a fight they might come out.
4. I think the hitpoint increase will also give people an incentive to leave Empire for the same reasons as above. "Oh, my cruiser can survive now, I think I'll take a trip."
5. Contracts will also have an effect of causing people to pick up new jobs...mission running is almost the best money maker now because it is not just easy but it is easy to find as well. It does not require planning, it does not require much thought. But now that there will be lucrative contracts maybe newbies will follow those and find new pastures in low sec, running contracts for low member corps. Imagine corps putting out contracts to have ice delivered weekly for a good fee? I know there are many corps that will jump at the opportunity. Right now nobody mines ice (except the macros) because they are not sure if it will sell from one week to the next!
Of couse, this is all specualtion but I think if we look at the changes as a whole we can figure out what CCP is trying to do.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 00:11:00 -
[48]
Im all for a change in the agent system..
breaking up Jita, for one. why not move some of those agents around? not just "zomg agent runner no let me blow up, nerfs them", just spread them out more, get some more flavor in those worthless systems. agent runners stimulate the economy, in a way, so spreading them out would help areas grow. growing areas mean less hubs, neighborhoods instead of a metropolis.
and boost lowsec agents more, because people Are out there, and are taking the risks (even if its not on some K/D stroking killhungry counterstrike mindwaste's terms)
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.07 00:36:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 07/11/2006 00:37:08
I can't believe people are blaming lvl 4 missions for empire "being bloated". It has always been like this, It always has, for as long as I have played anyway (since feb 04') and will probably always be like this.
And don't give me that risk vs reward hoopla either to justify removing them from high-sec. 0.0 is infinitely more profitable than empire already with complex runs, ratting, etc... and lvl 4 missions, especially when they are made more variable, will have enough risk to them. Not to mention lowsec/0.0 agents give more isk/lp.
This is a change that should happen, does not need to happen, and in all honesty, It will most likely not happen.
Although I am all for spreading out lvl 4 agents in empire, I mean, seriously, if not only just so people stop whining about jita.
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Stephar
The High Priest
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Posted - 2006.11.07 00:48:00 -
[50]
There are no level 4 agents in Jita.
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James Saumerez
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Posted - 2006.11.07 01:15:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Stephar
There are no level 4 agents in Jita.
Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. |
Sylper Illysten
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Posted - 2006.11.07 01:15:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Cipher7
Dragging carebears into lowsec to give pirates more action would work in the short term.
What happens when those carebears leave?
They are supposed to shoot back, not leave.
So-called 'carebear' industry and NPCing should be a viable profession, but especially in low sec, not to the exclusion of all else! They are supposed to organise an early warning system of some sort, have people keeping their eyes open while travelling, mine and run missions in multirole gangs, start up a gang if a hostile-looking cruiser pops into Local, pay a local nasty corp a subscription to counter any war dec they receive. Maybe train PVP alts on second accounts? Maybe use their imaginations to come up with ideas better than ones which any random forum warrior can roll out?
I simply don't buy the argument that PVPers give non-PVPers who enter low sec no option but to log out and never return.
Simple most pirates aren't interested in a fair fight, they're into easy kills, sniping from 150kms +, hitting missioners while they're being pounded by NPC's, making sure they ahve the numbers to ensure victory and running for anything that poses the slightest threat.
Now getting randomly ganked by the mental equivalent of a retarded toddler who wants to sit around and ********** over their kill mails is not my idea of fun.
Force those of us who have no interest in PvP into PvP and we'll vote with our feet, CCP loses a revenue stream, less targets for the pirates than ever before, so this is really in no ones interest.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.07 01:18:00 -
[53]
How about, instead of removing all lvl4s from high space, the quality is just adjusted accordingly?
If you want to run lvl4 missions, because you enjoy them, in perfect safety, you can do so in high-sec for a bad quality agent. You won't get paid that much, but you're not risking anything either, so risk v reward stays the same.
If you want to run the big hitting Q:20 Uber lvl4s, you can go to low sec and risk it. Brilliant money, but you're at risk from piracy.
The fact that there are lvl4 Q:20 agents in high sec is bizarre. It doesn't even make fluff sense.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.11.07 01:19:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Cipher7
Dragging carebears into lowsec to give pirates more action would work in the short term.
What happens when those carebears leave?
They are supposed to shoot back, not leave.
So-called 'carebear' industry and NPCing should be a viable profession, but especially in low sec, not to the exclusion of all else! They are supposed to organise an early warning system of some sort, have people keeping their eyes open while travelling, mine and run missions in multirole gangs, start up a gang if a hostile-looking cruiser pops into Local, pay a local nasty corp a subscription to counter any war dec they receive. Maybe train PVP alts on second accounts? Maybe use their imaginations to come up with ideas better than ones which any random forum warrior can roll out?
I simply don't buy the argument that PVPers give non-PVPers who enter low sec no option but to log out and never return.
In lowsec you got fleets flying around looking for a fight. Your 1 or 2 ****ant Ravens aint gonna protect your mining op.
Industry corps can't survive in lowsec without having a big PVP wing, at that point you're more of a PVP corp than an Industry corp.
Why is highsec so popular. You can mine when you want. Jump in for 1 hour, kill some mish rats, log out.
In lowsec you cannot control your time. Other people control your time. Other people decide what you can do.
If a gang of pirates decides that you will not mine or rat today, then you will not mine or rat today. They have decided that you will either logoff or fight them, and you will either logoff or fight them.
If they have a bigger gang, then you are logging off.
That's lowsec.
How many times do you think people will be forced to log before cancelling their sub?
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.07 01:29:00 -
[55]
I've been saying that lvl 4s should be low-sec and 0.0 *only* for over half a year.
Please make it so Hammerhead. People who refuse to go to lowsec will have to accept level 3s.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.11.07 01:41:00 -
[56]
I think 7/10 and above complexes should be moved from 0.0 to lowsec.
And Outpost guns should be tankable by cruisers just like .4 guns are.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.11.07 01:42:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
I've been saying that lvl 4s should be low-sec and 0.0 *only* for over half a year.
Please make it so Hammerhead. People who refuse to go to lowsec will have to accept level 3s.
Careful what you wish for.
I heard your whole alliance is gonna be living in highsec soon  
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fisty
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.07 02:02:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tyler Lowe
I'd like to preface this by saying how much I enjoy, and have enjoyed Eve, despite the problems I have given the nature of my low end computer, and the lag issues that have plagued the server.
Taken from a recent devchat:
<Viceroy> High Sec has been overbloated with people since lvl 4 agents came out, when can we expect this massive flaw to be addressed?
Hammerhead: It's true, people used to live out in 0.0 then we got the lvl 4 agents and now we have the Jita problem. We should remove level 4 agents from 0.5 and above.
I can see a desire to nerf the rewards, particularly the faction offers granted by highsec agents, maybe drastically reducing the quality of agents available in high security systems. I would, however, like to point out that the users, such as myself, that currently play in a less "interactive" manner (read PvE), due to constraints of client peformance, would be left with very little to keep us entertained.
For reference, on a good night, I look forward to a relatively lag free evening of running missions at 17 frames per second interupted periodically by screen freezes. If the removal of GtG bookmarks creates a *massive* improvement in my game play experience, I would drop mission running in a heartbeat. For the time being, however, at least until I find myself in a position to upgrade my computer to something which would allow for something other than a slideshow of me getting podded in PvP (and pray that my connection isn't part of the issue) level 4 mission running is about the only thing remaining to me other than mining Veldspar, which is a pursuit I find slightly less interesting than watching paint dry.
If the game design vision is to completely exclude anyone without a decent, and fairly up to date gaming rig and/or good connection from Eve, I'm fine with that, but I'd like to know if that's the case before I send any more subscription fees to CCP.
Post Script:
For those thinking of asking the inevitable question next... "no".
so basicly youre whining because you're afraid to loose youre caldari navyr aven to some pirates camping gates hence want to keep the lvl 4 agents in highsec too?
yeh i think im right....
get over it and stop the whinage
Ciao |
fisty
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.07 02:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Originally by: Cipher7
Dragging carebears into lowsec to give pirates more action would work in the short term.
What happens when those carebears leave?
They are supposed to shoot back, not leave.
So-called 'carebear' industry and NPCing should be a viable profession, but especially in low sec, not to the exclusion of all else! They are supposed to organise an early warning system of some sort, have people keeping their eyes open while travelling, mine and run missions in multirole gangs, start up a gang if a hostile-looking cruiser pops into Local, pay a local nasty corp a subscription to counter any war dec they receive. Maybe train PVP alts on second accounts? Maybe use their imaginations to come up with ideas better than ones which any random forum warrior can roll out?
I simply don't buy the argument that PVPers give non-PVPers who enter low sec no option but to log out and never return.
Simple most pirates aren't interested in a fair fight, they're into easy kills, sniping from 150kms +, hitting missioners while they're being pounded by NPC's, making sure they ahve the numbers to ensure victory and running for anything that poses the slightest threat.
Now getting randomly ganked by the mental equivalent of a retarded toddler who wants to sit around and ********** over their kill mails is not my idea of fun.
Force those of us who have no interest in PvP into PvP and we'll vote with our feet, CCP loses a revenue stream, less targets for the pirates than ever before, so this is really in no ones interest.
lol get a clue
Ciao |
Lunarmist
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Posted - 2006.11.07 03:48:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Lunarmist on 07/11/2006 03:49:28
pfft, if ccp moved all the lvl 4 agents to low sec, I will just cancel my account. Very simple and nothing to talk about. Play the game on your term since you are the one who pays the bill. I'm pretty sure lots of people who do mission will cancel as well. It will not make a lot more people go into low sec. It will only reduce good deal of income for ccp. New online games are coming out in 2007, so leaving Eve is not a big deal. They might not have to upgrade hardware anymore after the move. hehe
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