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The Big bang theory does not make sense.

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Captin ShadowHawk Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:00:00 - [1] I don't understand this theory it seems to be complete rubbish. What was there before the big bang, nothing? How can a universe be created from nothing? I think cosmologists need to put together another theory. Unless some one can explain the big bang theory to the average person. Rant over Thanks
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:10:00 - [2] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 05:11:59 It makes more sense than any other theory in existence, and it is the only reasonable theory (that is, a theory that doesn't require all sorts of weird crap) that explains the fact that the entire universe is expanding equally in all directions. There is so much evidence for it (from microwave background radiation to deep-field images) that it is taken for granted as a part of astrophysics nowadays, much like Einstein's theory of gravity and basic quantum mechanics. Most of the debate is over specifics of it, or extensions to it. You should read up on it, it actually makes a great deal of sense. Also, the question of "what came before the Big Bang" makes zero sense, because "before" the Big Bang there was no time, as the Big Bang created our universe, including its four dimensions, three of space and one of time. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Scoundrelus Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:13:00 - [3] Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk I don't understand this theory it seems to be complete rubbish. What was there before the big bang, nothing? How can a universe be created from nothing? I think cosmologists need to put together another theory. Unless some one can explain the big bang theory to the average person. Rant over Thanks A singularity occured at a point in space and then suddenly KABOOM!!!! It sent stuff going in all directions. This stuff became planets and stars and stuff. The evidence of this occurance is that the universe is constantly expanding outwards in straight lines, as if it was thrown. =============================================== We are Watching You.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Scoundrelus A singularity occured at a point in space and then suddenly KABOOM!!!! It sent stuff going in all directions. This stuff became planets and stars and stuff. The evidence of this occurance is that the universe is constantly expanding outwards in straight lines, as if it was thrown. Except that the matter itself isn't moving: space itself is expanding. If you draw points on a balloon and blow it up, the points move away from each other, yet the only thing really moving is the balloon. The ink isn't being drawn away from its original position on the balloon. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Mitten Caldari SAS Strike Team	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:19:00 - [5] Also, it has been highly thought that the expansion of the universe was slowing down and going to eventually stop completely and turn in on itself, imploding very slowly, and eventually explode in another big bang. I dun know mucha bout it all tbh, but I think recently its been observed that the expansion is actually speeding up. -- Nerfed Siggy... Signature removed - Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques([email protected])
Captin ShadowHawk Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:21:00 - [6] Ok I take your point but it is still hard to comprehend how you can have no existence and then suddenly the universe is created from no existence something must of happened before the big bang to trigger the events. I do realize i am asking the most fundamental question there and there may be no answer this is where the theory of the big bang falls down for me. I'm not saying it never happened but how was it created.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Mitten Also, it has been highly thought that the expansion of the universe was slowing down and going to eventually stop completely and turn in on itself, imploding very slowly, and eventually explode in another big bang. Well, before we knew about "dark energy," the possibilities for the universe's future were divided into two categories: 1. Closed. This means the universe has enough mass to eventually collapse in on itself into a Big Crunch. This also means that the universe is effectively a black hole--by definition, the density required to be a closed universe is exactly that which would make it a black hole. 2. Open. This means the universe's expansion will slow down eventually, but will never totally stop. The number governing this is Omega. Above 1.0 its closed, below 1.0 its open. However, right now, Omega appears to be almost exactly 1.0. What's really interesting about this is that as the universe ages, Omega gets farther and farther away from its original value. That means that when the universe was just born, Omega would have had to have been within something like 10^-40 of 1.0, a ridiculously close value. This of course leads astrophysicists to think that some natural force must have put it there for a good reason. Inflation is one concept that solves this problem. Originally by: flaming phantom I dun know mucha bout it all tbh, but I think recently its been observed that the expansion is actually speeding up. "Dark energy" is the layman's-term for the recent discovery that the universe's expansion, as shown by a number of indicators, appears to be speeding up. This is separate of the Omega-related issue. We don't know exactly why its speeding up or by exactly how much or for how long, but it is. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk Ok I take your point but it is still hard to comprehend how you can have no existence and then suddenly the universe is created from no existence something must of happened before the big bang to trigger the events. I do realize i am asking the most fundamental question there and there may be no answer this is where the theory of the big bang falls down for me. I'm not saying it never happened but how was it created. There are only two possibilities in explaining the creation of the universe, whether or not you use a religious explanation! 1. The universe has always existed. It never began, and never will end. This makes no sense. 2. The universe was created at some point, out of either nothing or something outside of our universe that we cannot see. This makes at least some sense. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
May Long Caldari Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:28:00 - [9] one theory about the Pre Big Bang time has to deal with things called membrains. basiclly different'universes' sit inside another one and bang into each other now and then . . .sorta like ours could have. very much a theory and very complicated as it also tries to explain the acceleration of the universe as we are seeing it now. _________________ Live long a prosper many times. . .a good sig pending >_>
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:30:00 - [10] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 05:30:46 Originally by: May Long one theory about the Pre Big Bang time has to deal with things called membrains. basiclly different'universes' sit inside another one and bang into each other now and then . . .sorta like ours could have. very much a theory and very complicated as it also tries to explain the acceleration of the universe as we are seeing it now. Any speculation about something before the Big Bang is, by definition (since we cannot interact with anything outside our universe) speculation. The concept of the colliding branes is completely made up, and while a nice idea that could explain things, is probably wrong. Just because something is based off a real theory does not give one an excuse to just make things up and write them up in Scientific American as if they were actual theories, and I get annoyed when they do it. Originally by: Mitten Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: flaming phantom Wtf? flaming phantom? Failed copypaste, fixed -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Mitten Caldari SAS Strike Team	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: flaming phantom Wtf? flaming phantom? -- Nerfed Siggy... Signature removed - Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques([email protected])
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:43:00 - [12] God seemed to have been just as fond of big bangs as we are Last Weeks Signature
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 05:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Aeaus God seemed to have been just as fond of big bangs as we are Anyways, its nearly 1 AM... I'm gonna head off to sleep. I'll answer more of your questions in the morning. In the meantime read the darned Wikipedia article! -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.06 06:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Aeaus God seemed to have been just as fond of big bangs as we are
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.11.06 06:32:00 - [15] It's one of those "we don't really know so we're just making stuff up" things. Meh. It's better then the rest of 'em.
Mesuinu M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 07:16:00 - [16] I believe I read that before the Big Bang the only thing that existed was pure energy. The Big Bang turned that energy into matter, as per Einstein's theory of relativity. Or I may be completely wrong. ---
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.06 07:18:00 - [17] In the Beginning was the Word. By tautology, that says all we need to know about beginnings. I must conclude that that is the limit of coherent lingual inquiry and supposition on the intelligible aspects of the "subject." It is also more likely that we are seeking preformed conceptions simply through the formation and limitation of the mode of questioning. --- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment
Quin Tal Fort Knox Inc Expeto Libertas Foedus	Posted - 2006.11.06 07:44:00 - [18] Edited by: Quin Tal on 06/11/2006 07:48:25 If the universe does one day stop, and start to implode, you've got a lot of waiting to do :) It's approx 78 billion light years in size atm, I'm sure we will destroy our selves long before then :) Some interesting info: Recently NASA took another capture sequence with the hubble space telescope, using new filters and lenses. They pointed it to a part in space that had no stars to the naked eye, just black. With 11 days of capturing, they found over 100,000 other galaxies, in that 1 little black spec. It's quite amazing to think that everyone of those galaxies has the potential for stars, planets, and life. Makes you think just how big the universe is. Edit: Image
Rina Shanu Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.11.06 09:43:00 - [19] Dimensoins of space and measurem,ents in light years..... I just seems flawed to me. I mean, everything out there is affected by gravity. We know that light itself is affected by gravity (as everything else) becasue of the existance of dark holes, since light is gravitationaly pulled into a dark hole. Now about the speed of light. It is relative, it is constantly changing, becasue in it's travel from a distant star in a distant galaxy to the lens of hubble or our view of he night sky, that light passes through multiple gravitational fields, from dark holes, to large stars and galaxies. I know that we mewasure the speed of light based on our sun, planet and solar system and distances. Yes, and there is this "but". In the huge dimensoins of space, with multiple objects (generic object) that have a garvitational force, that in turn affect light passing by from a distant star, how can we rely on "speed of light" to estimate how far or how close we are from objects ? Read up and look it up and please no flames. Now to the op, you must see that people do not really believe there was "nothing" before the big bang. This "nothing" reffers to something other than our univers, with its 4 dimensions (only 4? me needs to start looking into theories), it is a generic "nothing", it's like the void in bottle, it is there just that it is "nothing" (using one of those void making thingies for food storage). If we could explain the "nothing" before the big bang, we would, but we call it "nothing" because we are incapable atm to understand many things.... RS Before eating all my sigs you should know they are laxatives.
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.11.06 09:46:00 - [20] Every theory requires some form of belief. And, dare I say, every theory sounds like a load of rubbish. So... Explanation of the Big Bang Theory: There was a big bang. Here we are. --- --- --- --- My Sig Is Not Too Big...
HolographicEntrypoint Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.06 10:04:00 - [21] It sounds better than "On the first day, god created ..." --- ^ Custom Sigs for ISK My custom Sigs Gallery
Kei Ryuken	Posted - 2006.11.06 10:17:00 - [22] I think the fundemental problem with asking one of the biggest questions man has ever posed is that it will undoubtable lead to an even more confusing and perturbing question. The question i have is even more difficult to answer. Why is it even here in the first place? Why is reality even here? Why did forces conspire in instant to fashion reality? Every day physical interaction just seems completely at odds with its creation. Im standing on firm ground surrounded by the forces. Im breathing air and wondering what the hell! To say that the universe is the way it is because if it was any other way we wouldnt be here to think about it, is not what i'am getting at. I want to know why? It is like walking down the street only to find that every lamp post has mysteriously and immediately combusted into a perfect and extremely willing copy of Kate Beckinsale. Obviously this would make many happy, hurrah lets enjoy life, but the nagging question 'Why the hell did a torrent of Kate's coming pouring into existance?' This is a religious or spiritual question by any means. I would look for a scientific explanation, but i fear that science would never be able to answer it.
Lanfear's Bane Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.11.06 10:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. The universe has always existed. It never began, and never will end. This makes no sense. You should have stopped after the first two sentences. This makes perfect sense. The Big Bang is the equivilent of scientific religion. One of the first rules of physics that you learn is that energy cannot be created or destroyed and matter cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore the universe is infinite in time and space. Problem solved. "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" I believe a distant relative of Mr Spock said that. //obscure? Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _
Copine Callmeknau The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 10:50:00 - [24] Lets say you're in Mexico, what's north of Mexico? The USA, what's north of the USA? Canada, what's north of Canada? The north pole... What's north of the north pole? Asking what is north of the north pole makes as much sense as asking what was before the big bang. Just because there is no answer to a question doesn't mean the theory isn't valid. ----- Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.06 10:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk What was there before the big bang, nothing? Your missing the point with this question, because there is no "before" the Big Bang. Before is a word that refers to time, and time was created in the Big Bang. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:14:00 - [26] I prefer the Big crunch theory myself. All matter and energy in the universe will eventually be pulled into itself and collapse on it. Thus creating a huge black hole, but at some point this changes and there is a big bang, and everything is thrown outwards. The cycle is then continued with everything eventually being pulled back inwards. So in my opinion, what was before the big bang? A big crunch and before that a universe something similar to the one we have atm.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:24:00 - [27] I prefer the multiverse theory tbh. ours is not the only universe and there are more universes outside our own, with their own physics rules and stuff. coincidently, it is possible that our own universe was created from the remains of another universe. ------- Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.06 11:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. The universe has always existed. It never began, and never will end. This makes no sense. You should have stopped after the first two sentences. This makes perfect sense. The Big Bang is the equivilent of scientific religion. One of the first rules of physics that you learn is that energy cannot be created or destroyed and matter cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore the universe is infinite in time and space. Problem solved. I tend to agree with this. I comprehend the concept of universe as follows: Originally by: Wikipedia The term universe has a variety of meanings, based on the context in which it is used. In strictly physical terms, the total universe is the summation of all matter that exists and the space in which all events occur or could occur. The Big Bang theory appears to see the universe as the summation of galaxies, stars, planets and other more meaningful and visible astral entities. So, while all that may have been born as a result of a big bang, I contest that there must've been something before that. We may not be able to measure it, of course, but nothingness is an irrational concept. Nothing always refers to the lack of something contextually significant. Consider the following example: "I met this nice girl in a bar." "And?" "Nothing happened." Obviously, the universe was not suddenly devoid of all existence. The term was just referring to the contextually meaningful aspect, which - in this case was (presumably) mating. The context is generally implicit. Nothing is but a discursive tool. "She thinks nothing of lying to get her will." In other words, she regards it insignificant. So, in fact, when nothing is used in a metaphysical context, the implications of significance remain in some form. For nothing to exist at all is impossible. "Nothing exists." "Where?" "Nowhere!" If nothing consists of nothing, nothing comes out of it. Not even universe. If universe came out of nothing, nothing contained universe, and was in fact something. Hence the universe is, and nothing isn't. P.S. The word nothing was used 15 times in this post. Think nothing of it. ---
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 12:20:00 - [29] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 12:26:52 Originally by: Aaron Rex I used to be a strong BB theory supporter, but as of late I have been drifting from it and looking at alternative cosmological theories. The reason is the need for such enormous amounts of "dark" matter and energy in the universe to make BB theory equations and predictions to work. When the vast majority of the universe needs to be made up of matter and energy that have not been found (yet) I have to ask which is more at fault: the equations or the universe. Now, if strong evidence for dark matter and energy is found, and a few other key flaws in BB theory are resolved, I sure will look at it again. Dark matter has been scientifically proven to exist. While before the recent discoveries, some scientists suspected there might be another possibility, they discovered two colliding galaxies with properties that implied that dark matter must exist. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was big news at the time, a few months ago. Dark energy has been "proven" using a number of concepts that all seem to match up in implying that it exists. However, we don't know what it is. Originally by: Aaron Rex So what am I looking at now? I watched an interesting 2 part documentary a few months ago which opened my eyes to Plasma Cosmology. It has not been studied nearly as much as BB cosmology, but it does have some interesting points. Namely, fractal scalability (something found a lot in nature) which means it is theoretically possible to study cosmology in labs doing experiments, if funding were availible. But also it indicates at a constant, but ever evolving universe. This idea suits me well. But as with BB theory, and indeed, all other cosmologies, there is a LOT at fault with Plasma cosmology. We think we know so much about the universe already, but we hardly know anything, we're just taking our first small baby steps. It wouldn't surprise me if all current cosmological ideas would be proven false in one way or another in a hundred years time. I can only wish I live so long as to be able to see the new theories Plasma cosmology is a crackpot idea. Its total bullcrap, and no serious scientist anywhere endorses it. Its generally pushed, from what I've heard, by the same people who advocate cold fusion. And before all you anti-science nutsos flame me, "crazy" ideas get accepted by the scientific community all the time. For example, MOND, modified Newtonian gravitation, was a theory that would have eliminated the need for dark matter simply by making a very slight change to the laws of gravity. Not all scientists believed it could be right, but nearly all thought it was a reasonable avenue of research. It turned out to be most likely wrong with the recent proof of dark matter's existence, but nobody considered the creators of MOND to be crackpots because they went through the normal scientific method for creating and analyzing new ideas, and when a problem was found, they went back and fixed it rather than claiming that the scientific community was "persecuting them." -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.06 12:23:00 - [30] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/11/2006 12:24:11 Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. The universe has always existed. It never began, and never will end. This makes no sense. You should have stopped after the first two sentences. This makes perfect sense. The Big Bang is the equivilent of scientific religion. Huh? "Religion" means believing in something out of faith. Science means believing in something due to facts. The Big Bang theory is considered fact by the vast majority of people who know what they are talking about because it is the only theory in existence that matches up with the facts while introducing a minimal number of "extraneous entities," i.e. Occam's Razor. Originally by: Aaron Rex One of the first rules of physics that you learn is that energy cannot be created or destroyed and matter cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore the universe is infinite in time and space. Problem solved. This isn't a rule of physics. This is a rule of our universe. Before our univesre, it obviously didn't apply. And if the universe has "always existed," why is it expanding in all directions? Why can we quite easily track its development back to various points and even mark down its temperature at those times? If the universe kept getting smaller and hotter as time went back, how has it always existed as it is now? The Big Bang theory is the only accepted theory because no other theory exists that makes any sense whatsoever when we are confronted with the facts we know about the universe. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!

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