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Elk Dorengard	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:33:00 - [1] I've been testing several ships and setups with some friends on Sisi this afternoon, and among them one ship appeared to be a real joke. The Drake. Zillions of shield, insane passive tank and enough room to fit decent weaponry (the Drake's pilot was skilled btw). With a full modal neutron Hyperion (loaded AM) at optimal I couldn't break his tank. (BS 4, Large Gun 5 so I think I'm supposed to bring some havoc). He didn't even bother to shield boost. Then an Amarr Command ship came to give me a hand and we barely downed the shield, even though it took a lot of time. I've seen another thread about a tier II BC having a hard time VS a Drake, but let's face it : if a Blasteryon, supposedly one the most damaging (DPS speaking) BS around can't break this BATTLECRUISER tank, who will? This need a serious nerf. I mean serious. Hope CCP will read this and do something.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:39:00 - [2] /signed Tuxford stop giving all the cookies caldari, I mean common, rokh, drake, hvy assault missiles, ECM monopole and the earlier boost of making launchers NOS immune. Give us a missile counter mod at least, FFS..
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:43:00 - [3] It's not the ship it's the HP boost + new boosted shield extenders. I still don't think 4x large extender IIs and 2 invul field IIs is a 'good' setup for actual PvP outside of SiSi where it probably seems rather effective.. ===================
dec0 Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:46:00 - [4] Shhhh the drake is crap...move along tuxford... seriously though caldari dont get all the cookie cutters and its about time we had something good
Waxau Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:49:00 - [5] Tbh, i think its fine. Been on sisi myself and know its fine. The HP boost has caused more fuss due to people not realising its implemented. Yes the drake has more hp and a better tank than all the BC on tranq. COS YOURE COMPARING IT TO TRANQ! Brutix vs drake, and brutix will win.
goodby4u	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:50:00 - [6] The drake isnt a lone tankngank ship,remember if your in trouble you could just warp away,that tank takes up every slot he has so he cannot tackle or even hit you if you are outside his range. That being said i think the drakes tank is impressive and should be slightly nerfed,but not to the extent you guys are thinking. PS:the hyperion isnt going to be the insane dps boat they promised,its going to be a megathron with a better tank but less tracking.
Elk Dorengard	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:53:00 - [7] Lol. If the Hype can't win, I don't see how a Brutix can. I wasn't on TQ shooting on someone on Sisi, we are comparing Sisi ships vs Sisi ships, don't say stupid things. HP boost has strenghtened Passive Shield Tank, the drake slot layout allows it to be insane. Armor HP boost = some more time before hull, nothing to do with regen.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Captain Raynor It's not the ship it's the HP boost + new boosted shield extenders. I still don't think 4x large extender IIs and 2 invul field IIs is a 'good' setup for actual PvP outside of SiSi where it probably seems rather effective.. If a hyperion with blasters (supposedly the DPS king of BSs) cannot break the passive tank of a battlecruiser which was supposed to be gank and not tank, on SiSi, do you think there will be any difference on Tranquility? Since we dont have any complaints from other ships with passive tanks but drake I would say its not the extenders but the resistance bonus of the ship it self.
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Kunming /signed Tuxford stop giving all the cookies caldari, I mean common, rokh, drake, hvy assault missiles, ECM monopole and the earlier boost of making launchers NOS immune. Give us a missile counter mod at least, FFS.. Well this post is kind of dumb. First of all, the Rokh is a ship the Caldari have needed forever since they had no ship in the battleship class with rails and now we do, how this is unfair, I don't know. The Drake is another missing hole for Caldari since there was no real missile battlecruiser outside of command ships (and the nighthawks initial release was a joke since the ship blows) and the Ferox is technially a rail ship (and sucks at that role horribly, mind you). Heavy Assault Missiles? Yet another missing item.. we had rockets/lights and torps/cruise and heavy missiles/????, the assault launcher wasn't exactly cutting it.. a new launcher was needed. We have two missiles for every class except for at the cruiser level (and capital too if you wanna be picky, I'm suprised kali does not have a capital cruise launcher tbh). ECM Monopoly? All they did was nerf jammer strength.. ECM ships like the Scorpion and Rook got nothing to compensate for this, straight out nerf.. Jamming = Caldari ECM. It's also the most effective form of ECM, technically, though Damps and TDs work 100%.. still every ship fitting 1-2 multispectrals was getting pretty lame. I'm glad ECM was nerfed.. however you can't say Caldari are really winners in all this since our dedicated ECM ships are pretty much nerf batted with a vengeance now. What earlier boost of making launchers immune to NOS? Like Projectiles, Launchers have never used cap.. (okay proj used 1 energy to fire, some of them, but that was removed and all proj are 0 cap weapons). ===================
Elk Dorengard	Posted - 2006.11.06 17:58:00 - [10] Originally by: goodby4u PS:the hyperion isnt going to be the insane dps boat they promised,its going to be a megathron with a better tank but less tracking. Erm, if a blasterboat, the worst ranged off all ship isn't the best DPS dealer, what's the point in it? Blasterboat are meant to do high DPS, period.

Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Kunming Originally by: Captain Raynor It's not the ship it's the HP boost + new boosted shield extenders. I still don't think 4x large extender IIs and 2 invul field IIs is a 'good' setup for actual PvP outside of SiSi where it probably seems rather effective.. If a hyperion with blasters (supposedly the DPS king of BSs) cannot break the passive tank of a battlecruiser which was supposed to be gank and not tank, on SiSi, do you think there will be any difference on Tranquility? Since we dont have any complaints from other ships with passive tanks but drake I would say its not the extenders but the resistance bonus of the ship it self. A Hyperion can break a Drakes tank. I've played with the Drake quite a bit now, its tank can be broken it just takes a really long time. Technically speaking a Rokh, Nighthawk, Ferox, or Vulture could do the same trick, obviously the T2 Ships could do it better with their superior innate resists. Drake isn't the only ship in the game with a resist bonus.. anyways.. there might be a "setup" imbalance here but it's not the Drake itself that is imbalanced.. it's the fact you can add so many extenders and coupled with the fact ships have a good amount of HP now that makes it take a long time to kill.. I do not believe a Drakes passive tank is impossible to break with a Hyperion unless he really loaded up on kinetic/therm resist.. more like just takes a long time to wear down.. ===================
Elk Dorengard	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:06:00 - [12] Ok, let's change it to "Shield passive tank with innate resist bonus omgpownzorz" if you prefer... This doesn't change much... This IS imbalanced, cuz you don't need cap. At all. You see the point.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:08:00 - [13] Edited by: Akita T on 06/11/2006 18:10:03 Ok, you know what the REAL problem of the Drake is ? That is has the same 5% shield resist bonus that the Ferox has, on top of more shield hitpoints. Not only that, but also one extra midslot, two extra missile launchers AND missile bonuses, making it ideal for passive shield tanking. It makes the Ferox almost absolete, through sheer tankage and gankage difference. I thought the Ferox is supposed to be the tank, while the Drake the gank version. Solution ? SIMPLE ! Change the 5% resists bonus to some other, less "impressive" bonus. What other bonus, now that's a bit tricky. I don't know, missile flight time, or missile speed, or why not, missile explosion radius or explosion velocity bonus. Heck, even a CARGO CAPACITY bonus would (somewhat) make sense. Anything BUT a (passive) tanking-related bonus. Or, well, if it's a tank bonus, then make it an ACTIVE tank bonus (that almost nobody will actually use anyway), like -10% to shield booster CYCLE TIME (har har). _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:09:00 - [14] well if you wanna talk about a real long standing issue, battlecruisers have had the same shield recharge as cruisers for a while now despite having much much more shield hp.. so that right there is going to only be a bigger issue in kali.. ===================
goodby4u	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Elk Dorengard Originally by: goodby4u PS:the hyperion isnt going to be the insane dps boat they promised,its going to be a megathron with a better tank but less tracking. Erm, if a blasterboat, the worst ranged off all ship isn't the best DPS dealer, what's the point in it? Blasterboat are meant to do high DPS, period. Heh sure they are,but the hyperion itself isnt the king,the megathron will still be better because it has that tracking bonus,because of that it can track smaller ships and kill them faster without missing as much as the hyperion.
Waxau Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:15:00 - [16] Or we could just wait till the world and his dog flies the ship. As we know from past examples such as the hawk, the bonuses look great on paper, but dont often mean jack ****. Sisi is different from Traq. You dont get pvp like tranq, nor get pve like tranq. In short, stop asking for nerfs, before somethings even been put live! Bloody whiners. And ive fought a drake on test server - Me vs a corpie. Drake lost. Dont believe me, then fine.
Elk Dorengard	Posted - 2006.11.06 18:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Elk Dorengard on 06/11/2006 18:20:39 You see the purpose of "test server" is to TEST things, then give feedback so as to implement things that suits the rest. Sisi is here to make us helping the dev by experimenting things and telling what we thought about them. I couldn't break his tank, that's a fact and that's not figures on a bloody sheet of paper. It's better to point something that seem imbalanced before release than wait for 9 months to get things fixed.
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 19:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Waxau Or we could just wait till the world and his dog flies the ship. As we know from past examples such as the hawk, the bonuses look great on paper, but dont often mean jack **. Sisi is different from Traq. You dont get pvp like tranq, nor get pve like tranq. In short, stop asking for nerfs, before somethings even been put live! Bloody whiners. And ive fought a drake on test server - Me vs a corpie. Drake lost. Dont believe me, then fine. haha yeah supposedly the hawk was the most imbalanced ship ever when it became a missile AF.. everyone was saying how it was going to ruin the game, was unfair, ect ect the usual caldari h8 and who is using hawks in pvp, honestly? i think the drake will be fairly popular.. but ** the ferox is popular too and that ship is a huge flying turd bucket. ===================
Waxau Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2006.11.06 19:12:00 - [19] Im not saying that its not there to be tested. The simple truth is that it is there to be tested. But we dont need 15 threads, posting how the harbringer, myrim, and however many other ships cant beat it. Now if we talk about passive tanks then. . . Ferox's passive tank - my corpie couldnt break a ferox's passive tank in his Blaster eagle (with void). With no cap, or anything, he was still able to tank at his optimal. And he couldnt take down his tank - at all. Hell - i dont engage ferox in my CBC, because i cant passively sustain a tank that long. Yet the ferox isnt being whined about:P All im saying, is complain; fine. But dont create another thread, when theres already more than 5 out there, where your points have already been covered. If you're wanting the GMs and DEVs to see your point of view, confine it to one thread. Otherwise theyre gonna see a 'ahh drake overpowered' thread, and just ignore it.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.06 21:14:00 - [20] no one complains about ferox passive tank cause its damage is low....drake can wtfpwn damage while passive tanking better then the ferox. both are only good in gangs with tacklers....but in both cases youd want to primary it last...since it takes so long to take down, yet ignoring the drake will be alot more painful then ignoring the ferox till you get around to it. in the end, shield recharge times MUST be looked at before the HP and extender boosts go live.... Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us

Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:05:00 - [21] Don't nerf Caldari now.... I just started to train them... --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
ragewind Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:14:00 - [22] ok so you all hate the drake and its tank ..... ok ..... tux make them all happy follow the caldari ways make it a mini raven give it a range bonus and then some HAM's lol ------------------------------------ Dragon the patch to optimise EVE. Welcome to Tranquillity the optimised snail Please wait 4 minuets to jump war targets are 2 seconds away.
Futuri Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn drake can wtfpwn damage while passive tanking better then the ferox Drake has the lowest dps of all t2 battlecruisers.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:50:00 - [24] Drake resist should be changed to shield HP or something like the auguror, would still give drake lots of HP to put out its ehem "weak" DPS at its measy "short" range, but not an impenetrable tank, thats the problem here.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:59:00 - [25] Alot of people who think the 'no fleeing' fights in SISI are a good way t gauge TQ pk effectiveness are insane. how many people do you kill on TQ in pvp without either side having to tackle? Any solo Drake on TQ is fitting atleast a scram (nerf to tank) and likely a web (another nerf) to keep the target in scram range. If they have to go to the target, you're dropping a 3rd slot for an ab/mwd. Ofcourse, in small gang fighting, it might not matter, but that's why you pop the Drake's support, then warp away or fight them any whatever range you feel like. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Captain Raynor I do not believe a Drakes passive tank is impossible to break with a Hyperion unless he really loaded up on kinetic/therm resist.. more like just takes a long time to wear down.. Yeh, offcourse it isnt overpowered "it just takes a long time to wear down" LOL, listen to yourself hahaha its rediculous... How do you mean giving blasters 10X more damagemod is overpowered, it just just take less time to wear other ships down LOL In that case give the drake 8 launchers a 25% to rof bonus and another 25% to rof bonus + build-in 99.9% resistances. It will now take more time to wear it down and can still give "decent" damage. That thing is overpowered period. But give gallente 250m3 dronebay and we wont talk about it anymore Its great being gallente , aint it? _________________________________________________
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:04:00 - [27] I also support the idea of the Drake losing the resists bonus for missile velocity bonus. The Caldari ships all use Range, so why make the Tier 2 BC a short range, tanking missile boat, rather than a longrange missile ship? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Ilmonstre Minmatar TYRANTS	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:44:00 - [28] raynor you have convinced me les go and take over the galaxy in our awesome ships
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:46:00 - [29] Originally by: Futuri Edited by: Futuri on 07/11/2006 01:28:52 Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Captain Raynor I do not believe a Drakes passive tank is impossible to break with a Hyperion unless he really loaded up on kinetic/therm resist.. more like just takes a long time to wear down.. Yeh, offcourse it isnt overpowered "it just takes a long time to wear down" LOL, listen to yourself hahaha its rediculous... How do you mean giving blasters 10X more damagemod is overpowered, it just just take less time to wear other ships down LOL In that case give the drake 8 launchers a 25% to rof bonus and another 25% to rof bonus + build-in 99.9% resistances. It will now take more time to wear it down and can still give "decent" damage. That thing is overpowered period. But give gallente 250m3 dronebay and we wont talk about it anymore If all mid slots and low slots are used for tank, the Drake can tanks ~250 dps, 300 at most. If you can't break 300dps, maybe its time to replace that civilian railgun? 300 DPS only requires 50% resists, and 150hp/sec peak regen. The Drake can pull 150-200HP/sec peak with 70%+ resists across the board.(T2 em, 2x t2 invuln, DCU) Let's say you CAN break that peak recharge. You've still got to chew your way to, and past it. A Drake with even 100-120shield/sec peak recharge, will take a neutron mega up to two full round of blaster fire to break. If the Drake is smart and puts 5 light TD-ewar drones on you, and pops your drones, then you're not breaking his tank ever with your fubared tracking. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Futuri Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Marsha11 Yes some tanks seem impossible to break and there will be alot of changes, just cause the Dev's dont post, doesn't mean they dont take notice. I think the drake will get some sort of change because with a rack of PDU II's and some hardeners it can sit there all day and tank a stupid amount of stuff. The drake might as well sit in the station since it's not doing any damage or tackling with this setup. Oh, and the best passive tank setup does not use "a full rack of PDUs".



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