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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
91
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Posted - 2015.06.01 11:44:49 -
[1] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Slave sets are one of those thing which everyone knows about, and which have a major shifting influence on the sandbox, but which no one really seems to talk about much. Like many things which have been with us since the early days of eve, they have had an enormous effect on what doctrines and playstyles emerged. The ability for armor tanks to add more than 50% of their base HP in armor without a single concession on the fitting, in a way which scales absolutely with buffer mods, rigs and so on, is far more powerful in the modern eve era than the shield boost bonus that crystal sets give. That this extends to capitals, unlike crystal sets, just tips them further over the line.
Make slaves like Crystals so they don't work on CAPS PLZ PLZ PLZ
The tears will be so so so good i don't even think i have enough jars for them all.
SHIELD FLEET #1 2015
Anthar Thebess wrote:Most of the super pilots are using Nomads or warp speed sets , as they are much more useful than slave set.
(of course if someone have armor super he will have at least 2 clones with proper implants , one for aligning/ warp speed second using slaves , but the slave set is only "in case of next B-R")
You know nothing Anthar Bess
Haatakan Reppola wrote:make the Chimera able to match Archon as a triage carrier without putting a SC worth of isk on the field.
It does all ready.
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Those numbers for tank fit is not 100% correct.
Wyvren using all mid/low/rig having HG slave
If your flying a Wyvern and using Slaves/Nomads/CA-1to4 Then your doing it wrong. |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
92
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Posted - 2015.06.03 23:36:03 -
[2] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:Tappits wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:make the Chimera able to match Archon as a triage carrier without putting a SC worth of isk on the field. It does all ready. Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Those numbers for tank fit is not 100% correct.
Wyvren using all mid/low/rig having HG slave
If your flying a Wyvern and using Slaves/Nomads/CA-1to4 Then your doing it wrong. Your telling me a t2 fit Chimera match a t2 Arhcon for RR, local tank and capacitor? Saying it needed 20b to make it work may have been to much :P but i would still like to see a Chimera that can match a t2 fit Archon for RR/local tank/cap life and still be in the same price range The slave Wyvren was to match the number posted about its EHP, if you read the whole post i made i also stated that slaves do very little for the Wyvren. Note: Im not for nerfing Slaves, i made a comment about someone comparing apples to oranges (passive 11 slot buffer vs active 15 slot buffer).Then i made a suggestion to buff capital shield modules, mainly need a fix for fitting.
Shield cost more to do well but when you spend the isk on them there really good. i have a fit (around 2.5bill in mods and rigs) that will out tank a dead space fit meta rep max tank armor triage before even changing to tank fit.
Shield is just so much better at burst tanking compared to armor. its just when people eft them it looks like its crap but there in fact quite good when used properly and you understand what you need to do to make it work
There is also a prob with a set of T1 rigs you can get for the armor triage that you cannot get for the shield triage so it meens you end up haveinf to fit T2 rigs (i use ccc's) to try and catch up. but its nbd
2nd big cost point is there are no shield EANM's so were you might be spending 100 mill each on a cupple of them on the armor fits you need to spend 300 mill each on 2 nice invuns... other than that its just meta reps and implants but that's the same costs on both.... so its ~1bill on rigs more and 400mill more getting 2 nice invuns over nice EANM's
if people are slave implanting wyverns by default you don't deserve wyvenrs.
Wyverns can get the 2nd biggest EHP in the game after Levis... there is nothing up with shield supers.
Shield supers don't need a buff
Shield caps would be better with like 3%-5% more CPU so you can full T2 fit them like there armor bros |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
92
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 22:12:56 -
[3] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:So we agree that you need to spend more to get comparable numbers on a shield carrier (1.4b or about the hull cost extra) AND we agree that shield could use some help with fitting.
I dont get why people keep quoting me and say that Wyvrens should not use slaves, READ THE DAMN POSTS where i say it myself that i dont think they should use it!
Not really if you just go for a scrub T2 fit with scrub T1 CCCGÇÖs like most bad people do in eve on both ships then the shield one can overload its tank for a higher 4-5 min burst tank and the armor versions will tank less but are a bit more capstable if tanking for longer than one triage cycle. So pretty normal when you compare them to everything else.
Wyverns should not need slaves..... aeons don't NEED slaves 99% of the time ether. its just alot of big blocks would rather have max HP brink tanks as they normally always uses in big coalitions/Alliance Fleets so fitting any other implants would not make sense. shield on the other hand does not have this burden so you regularly see nomad implanted hels and rags and a few hyper max warp speed implanted stuff depending on what the pilot like to do in them. |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
94
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Posted - 2015.06.05 09:31:13 -
[4] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
You are still ignoring the fact that YOU said that a chimera carrier need another 1.4b in fitting to get comparable numbers to an archon. After insurance what is the total cost diffrence? (SRP dont count since that is still isk someone pay for it)
LetGÇÖs make it so everything is the same as everything else and remove all roles specialities from everything and let everything be the same.
Yes a chim will cost more than an armor triage if you fit the armor triage to do something that shield ships do not excel at but then you could fit the shield in a way shield tanks excel at and the armor triage will be left behind/would need excessive isk to make it comparable to the shield one in that role.
That seems quite balanced to me.
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
96
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Posted - 2015.06.05 23:56:53 -
[5] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Entry level fit (T2) for a triage carrier should be around the same for armor and shield, when 1 need faction mods to fit a decent local tank/cap life there should be some changes. Give shield carriers more CPU and lower the CPU use on shield mods and we are close to something
So you would like scrub T2 fit triage to be more effective than they all ready are?
We are not on about just some scrub fit T1 BS here we are on about a force multiplayer that can decide the fates of bill's of isk worth of ships. if your just T2 fitting them you don't deserve the benefits of been cap stable with your reppers running flat out for a whole triage cycle and been cap stable while RRing people.
All i would like to see is the same rig choices for both armor and shield as at the mo the rigs are what make armor better than shield nothing really to do with shield hardeners.
Also we have gone off topic far to long back to Implants (slaves) affecting caps and supers..
TBH its all balanced in terms of supers. no one i know is like... wow having to have slaves to have 50mill EHP is such a drag i wish they would remove them so i can have 30mill ehp but be able to have a set of plus 5's in.
but saying that i don't use slaves in my supers so what ever.. |
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