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Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.07 08:51:00 - [31] How about no warp to zero and no instas? THAT is the solution, not just maintaining the status quo. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Hesod Adee	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Admai Sket Warp to 0KM is a MANUAL THING. Leaving a ship on AutoPilot still warps to 15KM - just in case this affects anyone's opinions on Warping to 0km feature. This is the only part that doesn't really make much sense with the warp to 0 option. How can the nav computer on your ship be less accurate when it gets fed instructions from a separate computer system than when it gets fed instructions from the human pilot ? If this warp to 0 system is implemented it will make the autopilot completely useless as it will make it so that using the autopilot makes your ship reach the destination slower. Well until someone writes an autopilot macro so that long AFK journeys take just as long as if there was a bored player clicking each move in turn. Select yellow stargate symbol in overview. Click warp to. Wait for warp to end. Click stargate symbol in overview. Click warp to. This seems like it isn't that complex to write if you can write the program to find the yellow stargate symbol in the overview (look for the yellow bit) and tell when the ship is warping (look for text above the shield indicator). So if the autopilot doesn't get warp to 0, but 'manual' (your just sending instructions to the nav comp, its handling the complexities of flying) control does, I expect someone to write these macros and spread them around for long journeys in high sec. But some of these will be spyware infected. So if players get a warp to 0 when on 'manual', but not when using autopilot I will get annoyed. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Hesod Adee	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Thor Xian How about no warp to zero and no instas? THAT is the solution, not just maintaining the status quo. And how do you plan to kill instas without the warp to 0 option ? Without hurting the other uses of BMs ? The way I'd prefer is that when you warp somewhere, you come out within 15km from the target in a random direction. That way the current instas could bring you out at insta-jump range, or just as likely they might bring you out 30k from the gate. But this might be difficult to program into eve. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:25:00 - [34] Originally by: Thor Xian How about no warp to zero and no instas? THAT is the solution, not just maintaining the status quo. That would destroy EVE and the devs realise it. At this point in release with instas having existed since beta, such a major change in what has become an essential part of the game would result in decreased subscriptions. Thus far CCP has avoided the major misteps taken by other corps such as SOE, where those corps made drastic changes to their games and suffered greatly because of it. Having the warp to 0km option: 1. Will help alleviate the database strain, if coupled with the removal of gtg, stg and gts BMs. 2. Will encourage newer players and others to venture forth more into low and zero sec space. The addition of them gaining this useful tool should instill some sense of security in them causing them to venture out of high sec more often, further reducing strain on some nodes. 3. It will help retain those individuals who have limited play time. Removing BMs without offering the warp to 0km option would pretty much kill the game for any casual player. 4. It will help retain those individuals who are often dubbed 'carebears' by some players. Removing BMs without offering the warp to 0km option would cause many of these players leave. Thus the change to a Warp to 0 km is necessary for good game health and the continued existance of EVE. Removal of instas without it would not be possible without a drastic loss of subscriptions. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
chillz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:52:00 - [35] I think they should delete every bookmark, give everyone a clean slate. Those that have stuff stashed in space, as long as the change is announced early enough, can retrieve there stuff before it's implemented. It would be nice if they did it with all anchorable cans too, announce that they are going to remove every can in space, just give us enough time to go and collect the ones that we still use. Give us a cleaner universe. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
Sir Juri Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:56:00 - [36] Originally by: chillz I think they should delete every bookmark, give everyone a clean slate. Those that have stuff stashed in space, as long as the change is announced early enough, can retrieve there stuff before it's implemented. It would be nice if they did it with all anchorable cans too, announce that they are going to remove every can in space, just give us enough time to go and collect the ones that we still use. Give us a cleaner universe. /signed **** need to make a new sig...
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Mecinia Lua Originally by: Thor Xian How about no warp to zero and no instas? THAT is the solution, not just maintaining the status quo. That would destroy EVE and the devs realise it. At this point in release with instas having existed since beta, such a major change in what has become an essential part of the game would result in decreased subscriptions. No it wouldn't. It might actually make LESS people quit since the game would be more fun for many. Traveling fast is not THAT critical to how much fun you have is it? And if it is...try a frigate. Quote: Thus far CCP has avoided the major misteps taken by other corps such as SOE, where those corps made drastic changes to their games and suffered greatly because of it. What SOE did to SWG was pure stupid and has no correlation to Eve or CCP. Quote: Having the warp to 0km option: 1. Will help alleviate the database strain, if coupled with the removal of gtg, stg and gts BMs. Warp to zero will not do that, removing BMs will do that, which has to happen anyway. Quote: 2. Will encourage newer players and others to venture forth more into low and zero sec space. The addition of them gaining this useful tool should instill some sense of security in them causing them to venture out of high sec more often, further reducing strain on some nodes. No it won't. The players that avoided low sec like the plague before, will still avoid low sec like the plague after. Quote: 3. It will help retain those individuals who have limited play time. Removing BMs without offering the warp to 0km option would pretty much kill the game for any casual player. Casual players have hours to spend making BMs to every place they go? And why does a casual player need to travel across the galaxy at an accelerated pace, because he/she is casual and shouldn't have to wait to do anything? I shouldn't have to wait for PvP targets, I want everyone to have a warp to me option. Quote: 4. It will help retain those individuals who are often dubbed 'carebears' by some players. Removing BMs without offering the warp to 0km option would cause many of these players leave. Incase you haven't noticed, Eve has too many carebears as it is. The market is silly with the abundance of them. And why would they leave? Mining? Missioning? Quote: Thus the change to a Warp to 0 km is necessary for good game health and the continued existance of EVE. Removal of instas without it would not be possible without a drastic loss of subscriptions. CCP doesn't have the stones to challenge the playerbase like that...but that doesn't mean its better for the game if they don't. However, I think you overestimate the effect complete removal of instas and anything like them will cause, and not by a little. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:34:00 - [38] Originally by: FFGR Assuming the warp to 0 gets in, ID prices will rise and nobody will buy small anchorable bubbles. uh... why should people stop buying bubbles if warp to 0 gets in? .
DeckardIRL Gallente Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:36:00 - [39] Why is this thread not in features and ideas forum? there are about 6 current threads in there about instas.. it is one of the most common bug bears for everyone. As has been previously stated- enable manual warp to 0km... delete gtg, gts, stg BMs and that keeps the status quo. The pwats will not get as many n00b kills but they will still get plenty.... probably more if they sit in the other side of a gate now instead of in front.... to me warp to 0Km changes nothing as I have thousands of BMs and getting rid of them with an acceptable alternative is win win for everyone. Deck _____________________________________________ Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud.... I shoot better on Bud..... Eve Info- All you need to know
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Ravenal Originally by: FFGR Assuming the warp to 0 gets in, ID prices will rise and nobody will buy small anchorable bubbles. uh... why should people stop buying bubbles if warp to 0 gets in? Because right now people only have gate to gate BMs in order to travel. If you scan and see a bubble on the gate you can be sure that you will get drawn by it. With the new patch, you warp to a planet/sun, alas any object that isn't in the "line" of the bubble effect and you just hit warp to 0. There you go, small bubbles 100% ineffective now, medium would still be used for lockdowns of systems and maybe bigger camps. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Will Hunter Black Knight Buccaneers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:53:00 - [41] Quote: No it wouldn't. It might actually make LESS people quit since the game would be more fun for many. Traveling fast is not THAT critical to how much fun you have is it? And if it is...try a frigate. I take it you haven't flown a freighter before? Or been part of a 100 player battleship blob moving from one region to the other? Think of this way (not wishing to start a bob post but seeing as they are usually at war with someone its logical to choose them) Bob form a 100 person gang at 6pm on Monday evening from Fountain, their war target is some alliance in say curse region (not wishing to bring up the current war ) if there are no bookmarks at all how long would it take for bob to get its forces to curse and how many of its gang would remain before they have to log off and go to bed? Also If say bob gang members suffer losses and their clones put them back in fountain how long would it take for reinforcements? Feel free to substitute bob. fountain/curse with any alliance/region name at all... Simply remarking that you should get something faster doesn't help! Quote: Having the warp to 0km option: 1. Will help alleviate the database strain, if coupled with the removal of gtg, stg and gts BMs. Warp to zero will not do that, removing BMs will do that, which has to happen anyway. Bookmarks will probably be removed anyway, what is the use of the 0km option with a database table full of useless information. However imho they will still allow you the ability to create new bookmarks for safe spots/sniper spots etc, but due to not requiring gate to gate instas the number of entries in the database will be significantly reduced. Quote: Casual players have hours to spend making BMs to every place they go? And why does a casual player need to travel across the galaxy at an accelerated pace, because he/she is casual and shouldn't have to wait to do anything? I shouldn't have to wait for PvP targets, I want everyone to have a warp to me option. It sounds to me that the reason you don't want 0km option is that you want easy kills - no effort involved if all possible targets warp in at 15km where you can be sitting waiting for them. Try training for the use of an interdictor in 0.0 space or medium warp bubbles. ---------------------------------------------- If at first you don't succeed, give up - you tried once already. ----------------------------------------------
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:00:00 - [42] Edited by: Mecinia Lua on 07/11/2006 11:04:42 Originally by: Thor Xian No it wouldn't. It might actually make LESS people quit since the game would be more fun for many. Traveling fast is not THAT critical to how much fun you have is it? And if it is...try a frigate. You far underestimate this problem. Travelling is supremely important when its primary purpose is as a time sink. You also can't do much in the game in a frigate... Originally by: Thor Xian What SOE did to SWG was pure stupid and has no correlation to Eve or CCP. It can have a direct correlation. Instas have been in use for the game as long as the game has been gold. They are used by everyone, pirate, privateer, mercenaries, miners, haulers, researchers, etc. It has become at this point a practically essential part of the game, its removal would have a drastic impact I assure you. Originally by: Thor Xian Warp to zero will not do that, removing BMs will do that, which has to happen anyway. Removing all BMs is a mistake. It eliminates many strategic and tactical possibilities in combat and would practically make mining impractical. Most major mining corps use BMs because barges are to slow. When someone only has an hour or two to play a day or less then eating up half or more of that time just in movement is not fun. Originally by: Thor Xian No it won't. The players that avoided low sec like the plague before, will still avoid low sec like the plague after. One thing that kept folks from venturing forth was the feeling that they were not on equal footing and the feeling because of that that they couldn't travel there safely. The addition of warp to 0km will help these people feel more comfortable. Its not going to happen overnight. And not everyone will use it, but it should shift some of the gameplay more in the direction the devs are wanting. Originally by: Thor Xian Casual players have hours to spend making BMs to every place they go? And why does a casual player need to travel across the galaxy at an accelerated pace, because he/she is casual and shouldn't have to wait to do anything? I shouldn't have to wait for PvP targets, I want everyone to have a warp to me option. Most casual players would most likely use their isk to buy BMs from someone else. It seems you have a very self centered attitued, your last sentence in the quote above shows it. By giving the casual player this tool faster, so that they can save their isk for ships and equipment means they can make a venture forth in less time than it would take under the current system. Originally by: Thor Xian Incase you haven't noticed, Eve has too many carebears as it is. The market is silly with the abundance of them. And why would they leave? Mining? Missioning? If it wasn't for the carebears as you call them, EVE wouldn't have been in a position to upgrade its servers in the last year. It is that increased revenue that has allowed CCP to do upgrades. It probably has also provided additional moneys to help CCP hire more people and to do more with what they have available. Originally by: Thor Xian CCP doesn't have the stones to challenge the playerbase like that...but that doesn't mean its better for the game if they don't. However, I think you overestimate the effect complete removal of instas and anything like them will cause, and not by a little. I'm not sure what you mean by challenge. But so far CCP has shown itself to be a competent corp that has no desire to shoot itself in the foot. I believe you need to stop looking at the small picture and look at the big picture. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Theronnos Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Admai Sket Something I think is important for the less-enlightened people to know here... Warp to 0KM is a MANUAL THING. Leaving a ship on AutoPilot still warps to 15KM - just in case this affects anyone's opinions on Warping to 0km feature. I like it and want it! I have been waiting fot a insta fix for a long time and this is atleast a very good start.. aslong as it's manual of course. ---------------
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Jason Kildaro Or maybe they will run a script that deletes all of the BM's around gates before the server comes up? This is what they should do, yeah. Implement Warp to 0, then delete all bookmarks near stations and gates by running a script. They should still allow people to make bookmarks near stations and gates though, because there could be situations where you want to do it. Just that nobody will do it for quicker travelling anymore. In the future, people will just have a handful of bookmarks for their real purpose - strategic locations in space. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Baleorg Gallente Guys of Sarcasm	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:11:00 - [45] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky I think warp to 0km is a bad idea, not because I gate camp and look for cheap kills (which I do on occation) but because it takes the risk out of low sec and makes 0.0 even more deadly. I think BMs have been exploited, and warping to within 15kms of a gate should not be possible (I'm sure the code would be easy to write) - those 15kms are the risk factor - and the fact that people want access to 0.4 and below is simply going to create that dead space. well, so far you can use "instas", its the same as Warp to 0km, so no difference forgot the second half i wanted to answer ^^ --- BTW: A GOOD Cache-Cleaner
Majutsu Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:04:00 - [46] Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:06:20 Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:04:29 Could we not have a warp target accuracy module of some sorts? No instas, no warp to 0km as standard. But maybe a series of low slot modules that with their strength increase warp accuracy by say 5km a level to a max of 3 levels. Or even just one module but with higher fitting requirements that takes you straight to 0km. So with the right equipment (similar to using stabs) for travelling you could gate to gate. Without it neccesarily becoming too easy for everyone to move around and taking the risk out of the equation. So if I'm travelling a long distance in low sec I need to fit a warp accuracy module same as I fit stabs or anything else for travelling, at a cost of tank or targeting, power modules etc
Dubble Dutch Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:04:00 - [47] (copied from one of the many other threads thread abaout the subject) Originally by: Dubble Dutch I'm new to this game (1 month) and I have been hearing a lot of swearing on the insta's/warp to 0. It seems to me the original idea was that a warp engine cannot bring you close to a specific point in space due to the nature of the thing. (it would be very impressive to travel 50AU and land within less then a km 'off'. Nowadays GPS will get you within a few meters at best, and the satelites fly at less then 40 km IIRC) So why doesn't CCP make it so that with whatever warppoint you travel to (bookmark, station or whatever) you actually will NEVER arrive at the exact spot? Let the game generate a random number for the last digit (X,Y and Z) for any point in space that is being warped to and the need for insta's will disappear as well. I've started to use insta's as well: what the game allows I will do, but I find the idea silly that there is no standard way to 'warp to 0' while there is a workaround. The most silly thing is offcourse that while selecting the insta warppoint you still choose 'warp within 15 km' which makes me think the whole point was (and is) the inherent inaccuracy of warping (and simulating that in the game) my two cents, Cheers, Dubble Dutch
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:14:00 - [48] Originally by: chillz I think they should delete every bookmark, give everyone a clean slate. Those that have stuff stashed in space, as long as the change is announced early enough, can retrieve there stuff before it's implemented. It would be nice if they did it with all anchorable cans too, announce that they are going to remove every can in space, just give us enough time to go and collect the ones that we still use. Give us a cleaner universe. In Kali - Any stuff stashed away at a safespot will be easy to scan by anyone. Thus people should be removing their gear NOW, insted of waiting for day 1 of Kali only to find someone has stole their gear. The time to implement their gear is approaching cut off point, and this will no longer be an excuse for the anti-warp-to-0 crowd. Warp to 0, clean out all bm's so we all have a fresh slate. Other than that - agreed --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:16:00 - [49] Originally by: Majutsu Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:06:20 Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:04:29 Could we not have a warp target accuracy module of some sorts? No instas, no warp to 0km as standard. But maybe a series of low slot modules that with their strength increase warp accuracy by say 5km a level to a max of 3 levels. Or even just one module but with higher fitting requirements that takes you straight to 0km. So with the right equipment (similar to using stabs) for travelling you could gate to gate. Without it neccesarily becoming too easy for everyone to move around and taking the risk out of the equation. So if I'm travelling a long distance in low sec I need to fit a warp accuracy module same as I fit stabs or anything else for travelling, at a cost of tank or targeting, power modules etc People will warp to 0 for free. No skill or mod is required. If it is not available ingame, then they will make instas, which is what we have just now. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Temujin Shamen FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:22:00 - [50] i'll be saving all of my bm's in a can, in my hangar. just in case... --------------- Temujin Shamen
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:24:00 - [51] Originally by: FFGR With the new patch, you warp to a planet/sun, alas any object that isn't in the "line" of the bubble effect and you just hit warp to 0. There you go, small bubbles 100% ineffective now, medium would still be used for lockdowns of systems and maybe bigger camps. Unless of course the campers looked which is the most likely planet for people to warp to for scanning the gate and bubbled that line of approach instead or as well... Or what the heck, put a bubble up at the planet... - It's great flying Amarr, aint it?
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:33:00 - [52] Screw it, I say just nuke all BM's when Kali comes, it wont take a long time to get your tactical ones back. Sucks if you have GSC's on safespots like, but ah well. It also ensures that 500au SS's are 100% removed from the game. ....it's great hi-jacking a meme isn't it?
Majutsu Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:49:00 - [53] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Majutsu Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:06:20 Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:04:29 Could we not have a warp target accuracy module of some sorts? No instas, no warp to 0km as standard. But maybe a series of low slot modules that with their strength increase warp accuracy by say 5km a level to a max of 3 levels. Or even just one module but with higher fitting requirements that takes you straight to 0km. So with the right equipment (similar to using stabs) for travelling you could gate to gate. Without it neccesarily becoming too easy for everyone to move around and taking the risk out of the equation. So if I'm travelling a long distance in low sec I need to fit a warp accuracy module same as I fit stabs or anything else for travelling, at a cost of tank or targeting, power modules etc People will warp to 0 for free. No skill or mod is required. If it is not available ingame, then they will make instas, which is what we have just now. You misunderstand my post, I was talking about another possible option that falls inbetween the two main suggestions. I am against instas, but also I don't really like the idea of a blanket and easy warp to 0. There must be some middle ground and that was my suggestion for it.
Itzena Amarr OtakuDyne Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:47:00 - [54] Originally by: Lone Bear All bms are blocked on Sisi, including ss, snipe spot etc... Deleting them doesnt take long tbh. This forum needs an 'EVERYBODY PANIC!' emote. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Jadeon Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:22:00 - [55] If this goes through onto TQ I say HUZZAH ! Finally we get rid of managing Excel sheets in game (People & Places) and actually start playing the game.
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Twilight Moon Screw it, I say just nuke all BM's when Kali comes, it wont take a long time to get your tactical ones back. Sucks if you have GSC's on safespots like, but ah well. It also ensures that 500au SS's are 100% removed from the game. If people have GSC's it makes no difference - the new scanner system means GSC's 1000's of au away can be probed down. So there is no real reason not to have a warp-to-0 command. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:59:00 - [57] Originally by: Majutsu Originally by: Lord WarATron People will warp to 0 for free. No skill or mod is required. If it is not available ingame, then they will make instas, which is what we have just now. You misunderstand my post, I was talking about another possible option that falls inbetween the two main suggestions. I am against instas, but also I don't really like the idea of a blanket and easy warp to 0. There must be some middle ground and that was my suggestion for it. I understand what your post is about - However people in eve will not accept a skill or module to travel to 0km of a gate. They will either use BM's or they will use the Built in facility. There is no middle ground. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Becham	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:14:00 - [58] Quote: I understand what your post is about - However people in eve will not accept a skill or module to travel to 0km of a gate. They will either use BM's or they will use the Built in facility. There is no middle ground. People who already have thousands of bookmarks might not. But, new players would probably use a skill or module. It is far easier to train a skill to do that than to try to get a copy of thousands of book marks. But, personally I hope they put this in without skill or module requirements, but I think the AFK autopilot distance should be backed up to 30KM. Then again, I'm a noob exclamation point and I realise my opinion means little.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:37:00 - [59] If they implement the skill / module, and no "warp to 0", the skill or module would become pretty much mandatory. Like the learning skills. How would you feel about them making a character creation path that gives the newbie L5 in said skill? Would that be good? I would, actually, like a skill or module that reduces the warp-to distance, but for the autopilot, and in addition to the warp-to-0 option. So that it's an OPTION, train some skill and reduce carpal tunnel or if I want my AFK travel to be done faster. Or not train the skill or fit the module, and go the slow way. Options are good.
ponieus Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.07 16:01:00 - [60] All I gotta say is I deleted all my BM's on SISI and noticed a differnce in my game play from not having them. And if it made a differnce on the overworked sisi server then I cant even imagine what it would be like if everyone on TQ deleted theirs. I really hope CCP keeps the warp to 0 option. It is going to help server loads and make just about EVERY paying customer happy.. ----------------------------------------------- ok ok

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