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JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:32:00 - [1] I think it's interesting to think about what's going to happen the day of Kali's release, if "Warp to 0km" is implemented. All of a sudden, millions, maybe tens of millions, of BMs are redundant. People will have a few BMs, their tacticals and SSs, but the vast majority become useless. So the mass destruction begins. The server will already be under huge strain from every man and his dog trying to get Kali'd up on opening day. So will it crash the cluster, everyone trying to delete their BMs? About Invention: From what we've seen on the test server, Invention is just a bad joke by CCP to try and stop our whining. With the current RP
Brolly Caldari The Department of Justice	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:42:00 - [2] I'm more than happy to give up all my bm's in order to have warp to 0km and a clean server. Very intrested in finding out how server performace improves. If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:42:00 - [3] "It was as if millions of bms cried out in pain, and was suddenly silenced" Those that do not adapt become victims of Major Stormer
Redeol	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Redeol on 06/11/2006 23:42:14 Originally by: JForce I think it's interesting to think about what's going to happen the day of Kali's release, if "Warp to 0km" is implemented. All of a sudden, millions, maybe tens of millions, of BMs are redundant. People will have a few BMs, their tacticals and SSs, but the vast majority become useless. So the mass destruction begins. The server will already be under huge strain from every man and his dog trying to get Kali'd up on opening day. So will it crash the cluster, everyone trying to delete their BMs? who says it will be implemented _________________________ spitfires are sad planes.
Jason Kildaro Minmatar Synergy Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:42:00 - [5] Or maybe they will run a script that deletes all of the BM's around gates before the server comes up?
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:44:00 - [6] Assuming the warp to 0 gets in, ID prices will rise and nobody will buy small anchorable bubbles. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Major Stormer "It was as if millions of bms cried out in pain, and was suddenly silenced" Hehe I like the thought.. Well I for one will delete all my navigational BMs (instas) as they are a big liability to the UI and performance anyway, cant wait for "Warp to 0km" option TBH
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:54:00 - [8] Originally by: FFGR Assuming the warp to 0 gets in, ID prices will rise and nobody will buy small anchorable bubbles. Maybe a 50% increase in anchorable bubble range, how does that sound? since dictors are out they have kinda become the underdog utility..
Lone Bear Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:21:00 - [9] All bms are blocked on Sisi, including ss, snipe spot etc... Deleting them doesnt take long tbh.
Muthsera S.A.S	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:23:00 - [10] I think they will do it this time. Since their giving it a second shot. They tried it on the test once for the rmr patch I belive. Or was it the one after? Can't really recall. But you got to considder that once you jump into a system your bm's need to assert itself to the new system. I think this is why we're seeing such lag tbh. :/ But thats just an uneducatedguess. Though the initial destruction of bm's could be a problem. It's only a "one time cpu requirement" after you delete it, the once used bm whould require no more cpu. Quite simple actually. So lets see if they implement it. I sure as hell been waiting for this for a long long time. Rabble
Admai Sket	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:31:00 - [11] Would anyone go round deleting their BMs? Just leave them there and never use them? No-one touches them, no heavy load on server, right? --------- NEED A SIG PLEASE.
Wylker The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:35:00 - [12] Edited by: Wylker on 07/11/2006 00:35:42 I never really seperated my tacticals/cans/SS from my navigation BMs. Deleting will be a pain :(
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:08:00 - [13] im more interested in what sort of party will be going on at CCP when they start seeing bookmark database size go down and how drunk valar will get. 1000% awesome guide to logging out
Kuang V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:15:00 - [14] Personally hope they put it into kali .... Most of the people I fight you gate to gate bms and such and really it will not change much looks like a good way to free up something that is 1 problem of lag and such ... personally also think they should give us 1 month notice and delete all bms ... give us time to remove cans and such . = http://cdc.big-poppa.net/
Ilmonstre Minmatar TYRANTS	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:20:00 - [15] i wouldnt be to fussed about losing some giant cans and if you can probe them out again afterwards that would even be better
Kuang V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:23:00 - [16] That would work also ... either way = http://cdc.big-poppa.net/
Admai Sket	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:27:00 - [17] Something I think is important for the less-enlightened people to know here... Warp to 0KM is a MANUAL THING. Leaving a ship on AutoPilot still warps to 15KM - just in case this affects anyone's opinions on Warping to 0km feature. --------- NEED A SIG PLEASE.
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:30:00 - [18] Personally I'm not deleting any BMs until I'm sure it's in and going to stay in. Imagine the wails of anguish if it was decided to take it out again (for example, if the wrong code branch gets ported to TQ - which has happened before now)
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:33:00 - [19] I think it'd be nice if they just deleted all BMs at Kali. Then you get rid of broken SS's that can't be found, then-useless instas, and everyone gets to rebuild. However it sucks for people with deepspace ammo stashes, and whatnot. But still, it'd be good for exploration. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Admai Sket	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I think it'd be nice if they just deleted all BMs at Kali. Then you get rid of broken SS's that can't be found, then-useless instas, and everyone gets to rebuild. However it sucks for people with deepspace ammo stashes, and whatnot. But still, it'd be good for exploration. Couldn't you use scanners or probey things to find stuff like that again? --------- NEED A SIG PLEASE.
Bonafyde The Legion.	Posted - 2006.11.07 02:25:00 - [21] I like the idea of "warp to 0" in the end it doesnt change a whole lot when it comes to at the keyboard pilots. My biggest fear would be they disabled BM creation entirely, making it impossible to create tactical SS's, or snipe locations, or station overwatches etc etc.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.07 02:40:00 - [22] I think all BMs regardless of purpose or usage should be removed. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Karoth Tyu FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 03:07:00 - [23] I hope they're all deleted, personally. Let everyone start over. If people want safespot or tactical bookmarks, they can remake them in 5 minutes just like they can now. It's been previously stated by a certain dev that bookmarks alone take up an appalling amount of database resources currently. Their demise has been a long time coming and is very much deserved.
Rilder Caldari black viper corp	Posted - 2006.11.07 03:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Thor Xian I think all BMs regardless of purpose or usage should be removed. Ok, so youve hidden a large container in the middle of nowere with some nice expensive stuff just incase something bad happens to you or something (like being hacked), not much just enough to when sold net you a large sum of cash to get you back on your feet, boom all bookmarks removed and your out 10-30 mil of stuff
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.11.07 03:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Rilder Originally by: Thor Xian I think all BMs regardless of purpose or usage should be removed. Ok, so youve hidden a large container in the middle of nowere with some nice expensive stuff just incase something bad happens to you or something (like being hacked), not much just enough to when sold net you a large sum of cash to get you back on your feet, boom all bookmarks removed and your out 10-30 mil of stuff I pity the fools who do that after Revelations, as it will be possible to scan that said container out and blow it up. Now that will be grieving.
Lunarmist	Posted - 2006.11.07 04:22:00 - [26] actually, unless ccp is going to make all bms useless. Otherwise, everybody should hold on to their bms for a few more months in case ccp decided to remove the warp to 0 option. It could be a trick you know. hehe
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2006.11.07 04:25:00 - [27] The funny thing about most data structures delete() operation, is that the more times you use it, the faster it goes...
Haydon IV	Posted - 2006.11.07 07:49:00 - [28] Or, CCP can nudge all the gates a bit due to 'cosmic winds' and cause all 0km BMs to be invalid... and keep doing this every few days-weeks..... kekee... hides
Felix Dzerzhinsky	Posted - 2006.11.07 08:09:00 - [29] I think warp to 0km is a bad idea, not because I gate camp and look for cheap kills (which I do on occation) but because it takes the risk out of low sec and makes 0.0 even more deadly. I think BMs have been exploited, and warping to within 15kms of a gate should not be possible (I'm sure the code would be easy to write) - those 15kms are the risk factor - and the fact that people want access to 0.4 and below is simply going to create that dead space. When 0.4 disspaears, where do you think the Pirates are going to go? Because I'd be ****ed if I hung around 0.4 (there is so little there anyway). If people want to take the element of risk out of the game, sure, make it 0kms - but every pipe is going to be camped till kingdome come, only makeing the distance between empire and allaince space wider, concentrating pirates into all the pipes. In a sick way, I am looking forward to being a part of this segrigation. Nothing will pass unless it is protected. If the noobs want 0.4 to 0.1, let them have it. Personally, I think they should allow warp bubbles in 0.4 and below. All in all, I am against this idea. Poor implimentation, and I am sure CCP will contiune to argue about it.
Miya Kurosawa Caldari White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2006.11.07 08:21:00 - [30] it's only sensible that they implemented warp to 0. For 0.0, it really wouldn't make a difference with people using instas or warping to 0 manually. Most corps and pod pilots working in 0.0 use instas anyway. This could also emphasize the need for players to be always on their toes in unsecure space. sure it may be a pain to keep .0 secure for alliances and corps, but that's what interdictors and interceptors are for Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Pinoy ako! =) For you Philippine players out there, join us in the Pinoy channel
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.07 08:51:00 - [31] How about no warp to zero and no instas? THAT is the solution, not just maintaining the status quo. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Hesod Adee	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Admai Sket Warp to 0KM is a MANUAL THING. Leaving a ship on AutoPilot still warps to 15KM - just in case this affects anyone's opinions on Warping to 0km feature. This is the only part that doesn't really make much sense with the warp to 0 option. How can the nav computer on your ship be less accurate when it gets fed instructions from a separate computer system than when it gets fed instructions from the human pilot ? If this warp to 0 system is implemented it will make the autopilot completely useless as it will make it so that using the autopilot makes your ship reach the destination slower. Well until someone writes an autopilot macro so that long AFK journeys take just as long as if there was a bored player clicking each move in turn. Select yellow stargate symbol in overview. Click warp to. Wait for warp to end. Click stargate symbol in overview. Click warp to. This seems like it isn't that complex to write if you can write the program to find the yellow stargate symbol in the overview (look for the yellow bit) and tell when the ship is warping (look for text above the shield indicator). So if the autopilot doesn't get warp to 0, but 'manual' (your just sending instructions to the nav comp, its handling the complexities of flying) control does, I expect someone to write these macros and spread them around for long journeys in high sec. But some of these will be spyware infected. So if players get a warp to 0 when on 'manual', but not when using autopilot I will get annoyed. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Hesod Adee	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Thor Xian How about no warp to zero and no instas? THAT is the solution, not just maintaining the status quo. And how do you plan to kill instas without the warp to 0 option ? Without hurting the other uses of BMs ? The way I'd prefer is that when you warp somewhere, you come out within 15km from the target in a random direction. That way the current instas could bring you out at insta-jump range, or just as likely they might bring you out 30k from the gate. But this might be difficult to program into eve. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:25:00 - [34] Originally by: Thor Xian How about no warp to zero and no instas? THAT is the solution, not just maintaining the status quo. That would destroy EVE and the devs realise it. At this point in release with instas having existed since beta, such a major change in what has become an essential part of the game would result in decreased subscriptions. Thus far CCP has avoided the major misteps taken by other corps such as SOE, where those corps made drastic changes to their games and suffered greatly because of it. Having the warp to 0km option: 1. Will help alleviate the database strain, if coupled with the removal of gtg, stg and gts BMs. 2. Will encourage newer players and others to venture forth more into low and zero sec space. The addition of them gaining this useful tool should instill some sense of security in them causing them to venture out of high sec more often, further reducing strain on some nodes. 3. It will help retain those individuals who have limited play time. Removing BMs without offering the warp to 0km option would pretty much kill the game for any casual player. 4. It will help retain those individuals who are often dubbed 'carebears' by some players. Removing BMs without offering the warp to 0km option would cause many of these players leave. Thus the change to a Warp to 0 km is necessary for good game health and the continued existance of EVE. Removal of instas without it would not be possible without a drastic loss of subscriptions. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
chillz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:52:00 - [35] I think they should delete every bookmark, give everyone a clean slate. Those that have stuff stashed in space, as long as the change is announced early enough, can retrieve there stuff before it's implemented. It would be nice if they did it with all anchorable cans too, announce that they are going to remove every can in space, just give us enough time to go and collect the ones that we still use. Give us a cleaner universe. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
Sir Juri Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:56:00 - [36] Originally by: chillz I think they should delete every bookmark, give everyone a clean slate. Those that have stuff stashed in space, as long as the change is announced early enough, can retrieve there stuff before it's implemented. It would be nice if they did it with all anchorable cans too, announce that they are going to remove every can in space, just give us enough time to go and collect the ones that we still use. Give us a cleaner universe. /signed **** need to make a new sig...
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Mecinia Lua Originally by: Thor Xian How about no warp to zero and no instas? THAT is the solution, not just maintaining the status quo. That would destroy EVE and the devs realise it. At this point in release with instas having existed since beta, such a major change in what has become an essential part of the game would result in decreased subscriptions. No it wouldn't. It might actually make LESS people quit since the game would be more fun for many. Traveling fast is not THAT critical to how much fun you have is it? And if it is...try a frigate. Quote: Thus far CCP has avoided the major misteps taken by other corps such as SOE, where those corps made drastic changes to their games and suffered greatly because of it. What SOE did to SWG was pure stupid and has no correlation to Eve or CCP. Quote: Having the warp to 0km option: 1. Will help alleviate the database strain, if coupled with the removal of gtg, stg and gts BMs. Warp to zero will not do that, removing BMs will do that, which has to happen anyway. Quote: 2. Will encourage newer players and others to venture forth more into low and zero sec space. The addition of them gaining this useful tool should instill some sense of security in them causing them to venture out of high sec more often, further reducing strain on some nodes. No it won't. The players that avoided low sec like the plague before, will still avoid low sec like the plague after. Quote: 3. It will help retain those individuals who have limited play time. Removing BMs without offering the warp to 0km option would pretty much kill the game for any casual player. Casual players have hours to spend making BMs to every place they go? And why does a casual player need to travel across the galaxy at an accelerated pace, because he/she is casual and shouldn't have to wait to do anything? I shouldn't have to wait for PvP targets, I want everyone to have a warp to me option. Quote: 4. It will help retain those individuals who are often dubbed 'carebears' by some players. Removing BMs without offering the warp to 0km option would cause many of these players leave. Incase you haven't noticed, Eve has too many carebears as it is. The market is silly with the abundance of them. And why would they leave? Mining? Missioning? Quote: Thus the change to a Warp to 0 km is necessary for good game health and the continued existance of EVE. Removal of instas without it would not be possible without a drastic loss of subscriptions. CCP doesn't have the stones to challenge the playerbase like that...but that doesn't mean its better for the game if they don't. However, I think you overestimate the effect complete removal of instas and anything like them will cause, and not by a little. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:34:00 - [38] Originally by: FFGR Assuming the warp to 0 gets in, ID prices will rise and nobody will buy small anchorable bubbles. uh... why should people stop buying bubbles if warp to 0 gets in? .
DeckardIRL Gallente Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:36:00 - [39] Why is this thread not in features and ideas forum? there are about 6 current threads in there about instas.. it is one of the most common bug bears for everyone. As has been previously stated- enable manual warp to 0km... delete gtg, gts, stg BMs and that keeps the status quo. The pwats will not get as many n00b kills but they will still get plenty.... probably more if they sit in the other side of a gate now instead of in front.... to me warp to 0Km changes nothing as I have thousands of BMs and getting rid of them with an acceptable alternative is win win for everyone. Deck _____________________________________________ Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud.... I shoot better on Bud..... Eve Info- All you need to know
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Ravenal Originally by: FFGR Assuming the warp to 0 gets in, ID prices will rise and nobody will buy small anchorable bubbles. uh... why should people stop buying bubbles if warp to 0 gets in? Because right now people only have gate to gate BMs in order to travel. If you scan and see a bubble on the gate you can be sure that you will get drawn by it. With the new patch, you warp to a planet/sun, alas any object that isn't in the "line" of the bubble effect and you just hit warp to 0. There you go, small bubbles 100% ineffective now, medium would still be used for lockdowns of systems and maybe bigger camps. _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Will Hunter Black Knight Buccaneers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:53:00 - [41] Quote: No it wouldn't. It might actually make LESS people quit since the game would be more fun for many. Traveling fast is not THAT critical to how much fun you have is it? And if it is...try a frigate. I take it you haven't flown a freighter before? Or been part of a 100 player battleship blob moving from one region to the other? Think of this way (not wishing to start a bob post but seeing as they are usually at war with someone its logical to choose them) Bob form a 100 person gang at 6pm on Monday evening from Fountain, their war target is some alliance in say curse region (not wishing to bring up the current war ) if there are no bookmarks at all how long would it take for bob to get its forces to curse and how many of its gang would remain before they have to log off and go to bed? Also If say bob gang members suffer losses and their clones put them back in fountain how long would it take for reinforcements? Feel free to substitute bob. fountain/curse with any alliance/region name at all... Simply remarking that you should get something faster doesn't help! Quote: Having the warp to 0km option: 1. Will help alleviate the database strain, if coupled with the removal of gtg, stg and gts BMs. Warp to zero will not do that, removing BMs will do that, which has to happen anyway. Bookmarks will probably be removed anyway, what is the use of the 0km option with a database table full of useless information. However imho they will still allow you the ability to create new bookmarks for safe spots/sniper spots etc, but due to not requiring gate to gate instas the number of entries in the database will be significantly reduced. Quote: Casual players have hours to spend making BMs to every place they go? And why does a casual player need to travel across the galaxy at an accelerated pace, because he/she is casual and shouldn't have to wait to do anything? I shouldn't have to wait for PvP targets, I want everyone to have a warp to me option. It sounds to me that the reason you don't want 0km option is that you want easy kills - no effort involved if all possible targets warp in at 15km where you can be sitting waiting for them. Try training for the use of an interdictor in 0.0 space or medium warp bubbles. ---------------------------------------------- If at first you don't succeed, give up - you tried once already. ----------------------------------------------
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:00:00 - [42] Edited by: Mecinia Lua on 07/11/2006 11:04:42 Originally by: Thor Xian No it wouldn't. It might actually make LESS people quit since the game would be more fun for many. Traveling fast is not THAT critical to how much fun you have is it? And if it is...try a frigate. You far underestimate this problem. Travelling is supremely important when its primary purpose is as a time sink. You also can't do much in the game in a frigate... Originally by: Thor Xian What SOE did to SWG was pure stupid and has no correlation to Eve or CCP. It can have a direct correlation. Instas have been in use for the game as long as the game has been gold. They are used by everyone, pirate, privateer, mercenaries, miners, haulers, researchers, etc. It has become at this point a practically essential part of the game, its removal would have a drastic impact I assure you. Originally by: Thor Xian Warp to zero will not do that, removing BMs will do that, which has to happen anyway. Removing all BMs is a mistake. It eliminates many strategic and tactical possibilities in combat and would practically make mining impractical. Most major mining corps use BMs because barges are to slow. When someone only has an hour or two to play a day or less then eating up half or more of that time just in movement is not fun. Originally by: Thor Xian No it won't. The players that avoided low sec like the plague before, will still avoid low sec like the plague after. One thing that kept folks from venturing forth was the feeling that they were not on equal footing and the feeling because of that that they couldn't travel there safely. The addition of warp to 0km will help these people feel more comfortable. Its not going to happen overnight. And not everyone will use it, but it should shift some of the gameplay more in the direction the devs are wanting. Originally by: Thor Xian Casual players have hours to spend making BMs to every place they go? And why does a casual player need to travel across the galaxy at an accelerated pace, because he/she is casual and shouldn't have to wait to do anything? I shouldn't have to wait for PvP targets, I want everyone to have a warp to me option. Most casual players would most likely use their isk to buy BMs from someone else. It seems you have a very self centered attitued, your last sentence in the quote above shows it. By giving the casual player this tool faster, so that they can save their isk for ships and equipment means they can make a venture forth in less time than it would take under the current system. Originally by: Thor Xian Incase you haven't noticed, Eve has too many carebears as it is. The market is silly with the abundance of them. And why would they leave? Mining? Missioning? If it wasn't for the carebears as you call them, EVE wouldn't have been in a position to upgrade its servers in the last year. It is that increased revenue that has allowed CCP to do upgrades. It probably has also provided additional moneys to help CCP hire more people and to do more with what they have available. Originally by: Thor Xian CCP doesn't have the stones to challenge the playerbase like that...but that doesn't mean its better for the game if they don't. However, I think you overestimate the effect complete removal of instas and anything like them will cause, and not by a little. I'm not sure what you mean by challenge. But so far CCP has shown itself to be a competent corp that has no desire to shoot itself in the foot. I believe you need to stop looking at the small picture and look at the big picture. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Theronnos Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Admai Sket Something I think is important for the less-enlightened people to know here... Warp to 0KM is a MANUAL THING. Leaving a ship on AutoPilot still warps to 15KM - just in case this affects anyone's opinions on Warping to 0km feature. I like it and want it! I have been waiting fot a insta fix for a long time and this is atleast a very good start.. aslong as it's manual of course. ---------------
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Jason Kildaro Or maybe they will run a script that deletes all of the BM's around gates before the server comes up? This is what they should do, yeah. Implement Warp to 0, then delete all bookmarks near stations and gates by running a script. They should still allow people to make bookmarks near stations and gates though, because there could be situations where you want to do it. Just that nobody will do it for quicker travelling anymore. In the future, people will just have a handful of bookmarks for their real purpose - strategic locations in space. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Baleorg Gallente Guys of Sarcasm	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:11:00 - [45] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky I think warp to 0km is a bad idea, not because I gate camp and look for cheap kills (which I do on occation) but because it takes the risk out of low sec and makes 0.0 even more deadly. I think BMs have been exploited, and warping to within 15kms of a gate should not be possible (I'm sure the code would be easy to write) - those 15kms are the risk factor - and the fact that people want access to 0.4 and below is simply going to create that dead space. well, so far you can use "instas", its the same as Warp to 0km, so no difference forgot the second half i wanted to answer ^^ --- BTW: A GOOD Cache-Cleaner
Majutsu Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:04:00 - [46] Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:06:20 Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:04:29 Could we not have a warp target accuracy module of some sorts? No instas, no warp to 0km as standard. But maybe a series of low slot modules that with their strength increase warp accuracy by say 5km a level to a max of 3 levels. Or even just one module but with higher fitting requirements that takes you straight to 0km. So with the right equipment (similar to using stabs) for travelling you could gate to gate. Without it neccesarily becoming too easy for everyone to move around and taking the risk out of the equation. So if I'm travelling a long distance in low sec I need to fit a warp accuracy module same as I fit stabs or anything else for travelling, at a cost of tank or targeting, power modules etc
Dubble Dutch Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:04:00 - [47] (copied from one of the many other threads thread abaout the subject) Originally by: Dubble Dutch I'm new to this game (1 month) and I have been hearing a lot of swearing on the insta's/warp to 0. It seems to me the original idea was that a warp engine cannot bring you close to a specific point in space due to the nature of the thing. (it would be very impressive to travel 50AU and land within less then a km 'off'. Nowadays GPS will get you within a few meters at best, and the satelites fly at less then 40 km IIRC) So why doesn't CCP make it so that with whatever warppoint you travel to (bookmark, station or whatever) you actually will NEVER arrive at the exact spot? Let the game generate a random number for the last digit (X,Y and Z) for any point in space that is being warped to and the need for insta's will disappear as well. I've started to use insta's as well: what the game allows I will do, but I find the idea silly that there is no standard way to 'warp to 0' while there is a workaround. The most silly thing is offcourse that while selecting the insta warppoint you still choose 'warp within 15 km' which makes me think the whole point was (and is) the inherent inaccuracy of warping (and simulating that in the game) my two cents, Cheers, Dubble Dutch
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:14:00 - [48] Originally by: chillz I think they should delete every bookmark, give everyone a clean slate. Those that have stuff stashed in space, as long as the change is announced early enough, can retrieve there stuff before it's implemented. It would be nice if they did it with all anchorable cans too, announce that they are going to remove every can in space, just give us enough time to go and collect the ones that we still use. Give us a cleaner universe. In Kali - Any stuff stashed away at a safespot will be easy to scan by anyone. Thus people should be removing their gear NOW, insted of waiting for day 1 of Kali only to find someone has stole their gear. The time to implement their gear is approaching cut off point, and this will no longer be an excuse for the anti-warp-to-0 crowd. Warp to 0, clean out all bm's so we all have a fresh slate. Other than that - agreed --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:16:00 - [49] Originally by: Majutsu Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:06:20 Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:04:29 Could we not have a warp target accuracy module of some sorts? No instas, no warp to 0km as standard. But maybe a series of low slot modules that with their strength increase warp accuracy by say 5km a level to a max of 3 levels. Or even just one module but with higher fitting requirements that takes you straight to 0km. So with the right equipment (similar to using stabs) for travelling you could gate to gate. Without it neccesarily becoming too easy for everyone to move around and taking the risk out of the equation. So if I'm travelling a long distance in low sec I need to fit a warp accuracy module same as I fit stabs or anything else for travelling, at a cost of tank or targeting, power modules etc People will warp to 0 for free. No skill or mod is required. If it is not available ingame, then they will make instas, which is what we have just now. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Temujin Shamen FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:22:00 - [50] i'll be saving all of my bm's in a can, in my hangar. just in case... --------------- Temujin Shamen
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:24:00 - [51] Originally by: FFGR With the new patch, you warp to a planet/sun, alas any object that isn't in the "line" of the bubble effect and you just hit warp to 0. There you go, small bubbles 100% ineffective now, medium would still be used for lockdowns of systems and maybe bigger camps. Unless of course the campers looked which is the most likely planet for people to warp to for scanning the gate and bubbled that line of approach instead or as well... Or what the heck, put a bubble up at the planet... - It's great flying Amarr, aint it?
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:33:00 - [52] Screw it, I say just nuke all BM's when Kali comes, it wont take a long time to get your tactical ones back. Sucks if you have GSC's on safespots like, but ah well. It also ensures that 500au SS's are 100% removed from the game. ....it's great hi-jacking a meme isn't it?
Majutsu Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:49:00 - [53] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Majutsu Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:06:20 Edited by: Majutsu on 07/11/2006 12:04:29 Could we not have a warp target accuracy module of some sorts? No instas, no warp to 0km as standard. But maybe a series of low slot modules that with their strength increase warp accuracy by say 5km a level to a max of 3 levels. Or even just one module but with higher fitting requirements that takes you straight to 0km. So with the right equipment (similar to using stabs) for travelling you could gate to gate. Without it neccesarily becoming too easy for everyone to move around and taking the risk out of the equation. So if I'm travelling a long distance in low sec I need to fit a warp accuracy module same as I fit stabs or anything else for travelling, at a cost of tank or targeting, power modules etc People will warp to 0 for free. No skill or mod is required. If it is not available ingame, then they will make instas, which is what we have just now. You misunderstand my post, I was talking about another possible option that falls inbetween the two main suggestions. I am against instas, but also I don't really like the idea of a blanket and easy warp to 0. There must be some middle ground and that was my suggestion for it.
Itzena Amarr OtakuDyne Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:47:00 - [54] Originally by: Lone Bear All bms are blocked on Sisi, including ss, snipe spot etc... Deleting them doesnt take long tbh. This forum needs an 'EVERYBODY PANIC!' emote. -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be.
Jadeon Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:22:00 - [55] If this goes through onto TQ I say HUZZAH ! Finally we get rid of managing Excel sheets in game (People & Places) and actually start playing the game.
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Twilight Moon Screw it, I say just nuke all BM's when Kali comes, it wont take a long time to get your tactical ones back. Sucks if you have GSC's on safespots like, but ah well. It also ensures that 500au SS's are 100% removed from the game. If people have GSC's it makes no difference - the new scanner system means GSC's 1000's of au away can be probed down. So there is no real reason not to have a warp-to-0 command. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:59:00 - [57] Originally by: Majutsu Originally by: Lord WarATron People will warp to 0 for free. No skill or mod is required. If it is not available ingame, then they will make instas, which is what we have just now. You misunderstand my post, I was talking about another possible option that falls inbetween the two main suggestions. I am against instas, but also I don't really like the idea of a blanket and easy warp to 0. There must be some middle ground and that was my suggestion for it. I understand what your post is about - However people in eve will not accept a skill or module to travel to 0km of a gate. They will either use BM's or they will use the Built in facility. There is no middle ground. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Becham	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:14:00 - [58] Quote: I understand what your post is about - However people in eve will not accept a skill or module to travel to 0km of a gate. They will either use BM's or they will use the Built in facility. There is no middle ground. People who already have thousands of bookmarks might not. But, new players would probably use a skill or module. It is far easier to train a skill to do that than to try to get a copy of thousands of book marks. But, personally I hope they put this in without skill or module requirements, but I think the AFK autopilot distance should be backed up to 30KM. Then again, I'm a noob exclamation point and I realise my opinion means little.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:37:00 - [59] If they implement the skill / module, and no "warp to 0", the skill or module would become pretty much mandatory. Like the learning skills. How would you feel about them making a character creation path that gives the newbie L5 in said skill? Would that be good? I would, actually, like a skill or module that reduces the warp-to distance, but for the autopilot, and in addition to the warp-to-0 option. So that it's an OPTION, train some skill and reduce carpal tunnel or if I want my AFK travel to be done faster. Or not train the skill or fit the module, and go the slow way. Options are good.
ponieus Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.07 16:01:00 - [60] All I gotta say is I deleted all my BM's on SISI and noticed a differnce in my game play from not having them. And if it made a differnce on the overworked sisi server then I cant even imagine what it would be like if everyone on TQ deleted theirs. I really hope CCP keeps the warp to 0 option. It is going to help server loads and make just about EVERY paying customer happy.. ----------------------------------------------- ok ok
Sarpadeon Freedom Guard Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.07 17:32:00 - [61] Originally by: Major Stormer "It was as if millions of bms cried out in pain, and was suddenly silenced" Rofl props for the reference
Kipkruide Quantum Dynamics	Posted - 2006.11.07 17:45:00 - [62] ccp will probably just delete them all for you. :). what i'd do
Skawl GeoTech	Posted - 2006.11.07 17:51:00 - [63] I think someone said the warp to... distances have been changed do that current BMs won't work (i.e. 10km, 20km, etc). I guess people will just delete their gate to gates as they'll no longer work, rather than CCP indiscriminately destroying all BMs.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.11.07 17:52:00 - [64] drop * from Table_Bookmarks ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.11.07 18:12:00 - [65] Originally by: chillz I think they should delete every bookmark, give everyone a clean slate. Those that have stuff stashed in space, as long as the change is announced early enough, can retrieve there stuff before it's implemented. It would be nice if they did it with all anchorable cans too, announce that they are going to remove every can in space, just give us enough time to go and collect the ones that we still use. Give us a cleaner universe. /Signed
Galimiy Portret Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.07 18:19:00 - [66] Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 07/11/2006 18:19:42 Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Twilight Moon Screw it, I say just nuke all BM's when Kali comes, it wont take a long time to get your tactical ones back. Sucks if you have GSC's on safespots like, but ah well. It also ensures that 500au SS's are 100% removed from the game. If people have GSC's it makes no difference - the new scanner system means GSC's 1000's of au away can be probed down. So there is no real reason not to have a warp-to-0 command. Eh, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it that way that you only can pick up ship's signatures? EDIT: Oh, and btw, I am 200% with both arms and legs and my head for a "Warp to 0" AND a BM nuke!
Billy Sastard Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.11.07 18:34:00 - [67] Originally by: Will Hunter Quote: No it wouldn't. It might actually make LESS people quit since the game would be more fun for many. Traveling fast is not THAT critical to how much fun you have is it? And if it is...try a frigate. I take it you haven't flown a freighter before? Or been part of a 100 player battleship blob moving from one region to the other? ** XXX form a 100 person gang at 6pm on Monday evening from Fountain, their war target is some alliance in say curse region (not wishing to bring up the current war ) if there are no bookmarks at all how long would it take for XXX to get its forces to curse I am going to have to play devils advocate here. If Alliance XXX made up that 100 ship gang, and was going to move it quickly with no bookmarks, all they would need to do is send an interceptor ahead to each gate, and while the 99 battleships were aligning and getting to warping speed, the interceptor would line up 15km (or whatever predetermined distance) behind the gate and give the OK, then the 99 others would warp to within 15k of the interceptor and be on the gate as if they still had instas. This is called teamwork, and teamwork can almost always overcome :D That being said, I LOVE** the warp to 0 and hope it makes it into Kali ;) -=^=- My Bookmarking Guide
HostageTaker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.07 18:37:00 - [68] I'm all for Warp to 0m and nuking all BMs; instas/safes/tacticals. >>> EvE-Online Wallpapers <<<
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.07 18:42:00 - [69] Originally by: Mecinia Lua stuffs. You missed my point. Most of the people that use instas now use them to get an advantage in the game it was not designed to give them. Regional Travel is SUPPOSED to be a big deal, not just a 2-3 hour jaunt from one end of the galaxy to the other. As for frigates, if more people flew them, the relative effectiveness of them would go up considerably. And the need to have larger ships would drop, which would promote the use of small modules and equipment. The market would shift to smaller ships rather than just 'better' ships. As for selfish views, sure why not. Isn't everyones' demanding of a replacement for instas as opposed to complete removal of anything like them the same thing? Selfish? Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to be able to drive from California to New York in 30 minutes to have a fun day. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.07 19:29:00 - [70] Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 07/11/2006 19:29:59 Originally by: Thor Xian Regional Travel is SUPPOSED to be a big deal, not just a 2-3 hour jaunt from one end of the galaxy to the other. Well, travel time sinks are a negative game mechanic that most MMOG's are trying to do away with, and trying very hard. Everyone wants to get to the fun right away, wherever that lights up on the map, and we'll put up with some wait time, or logistics challenges, but NOT an extreme sadistic amount of them. It's a very fine balance. Originally by: Thor Xian As for frigates, if more people flew them, the relative effectiveness of them would go up considerably. And the need to have larger ships would drop, which would promote the use of small modules and equipment. The market would shift to smaller ships rather than just 'better' ships. Yes, but MMO's are built on the principle of advancing your character to bigger and "better" things. People can fly T1 frigates as soon as they create a char, and they can fly frigates well within a couple months max. Once they get there, the choice would be "do I fly more of these frigates as the game "entices" me to, or do I quit cause I'm bored?"
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.07 19:35:00 - [71] All your BM are belong to us!!!
DefJam101 Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.07 19:46:00 - [72] Originally by: Redeol Edited by: Redeol on 06/11/2006 23:42:14 Originally by: JForce I think it's interesting to think about what's going to happen the day of Kali's release, if "Warp to 0km" is implemented. All of a sudden, millions, maybe tens of millions, of BMs are redundant. People will have a few BMs, their tacticals and SSs, but the vast majority become useless. So the mass destruction begins. The server will already be under huge strain from every man and his dog trying to get Kali'd up on opening day. So will it crash the cluster, everyone trying to delete their BMs? who says it will be implemented God. ***
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:34:00 - [73] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 07/11/2006 20:35:37 Originally by: Galimiy Portret Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 07/11/2006 18:19:42 Originally by: Lord WarATron If people have GSC's it makes no difference - the new scanner system means GSC's 1000's of au away can be probed down. So there is no real reason not to have a warp-to-0 command. Eh, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it that way that you only can pick up ship's signatures? EDIT: Oh, and btw, I am 200% with both arms and legs and my head for a "Warp to 0" AND a BM nuke! Sorry, I can see where the confusion arrived from, so please let me explain. In Kali, the new scanning system will mean that anybody that has hidden anything - be it nobship to secure can upto hundreds or thousands of au away, can be probed down with relitive ease. At the moment, its a serious pain in the ass to find a giant can. I suspect large numbers of people raiding Red Alliance space to collect a dragon horde on day 1 of kali! --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
turnschuh Eye of God	Posted - 2006.11.07 20:41:00 - [74] Edited by: turnschuh on 07/11/2006 20:42:46 make it security status related: 1.0-0.5 0km 0.4-0.3 5km 0.2-0.1 10km 0.0-0.0 15km but then the BM problem wouldnt be solved :( guess its the best way it is currently on sisi expect that old BMs dont work anymore, thats a pain. I wouldnt had a problem with it though but I guess some people will (ss, deep ss, tactical, etc)
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:34:00 - [75] Edited by: Andrue on 07/11/2006 21:34:23 Ignore me -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
chillz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.08 01:06:00 - [76] Originally by: Thor Xian Regional Travel is SUPPOSED to be a big deal, not just a 2-3 hour jaunt from one end of the galaxy to the other. Yeah, I remember travelling 50 jumps to join a corp pre highways. I love losing a couple of days game time to get my stuff somewhere. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.08 01:12:00 - [77] Originally by: Letouk Mernel Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 07/11/2006 19:29:59 Originally by: Thor Xian Regional Travel is SUPPOSED to be a big deal, not just a 2-3 hour jaunt from one end of the galaxy to the other. Well, travel time sinks are a negative game mechanic that most MMOG's are trying to do away with, and trying very hard. No they aren't. You don't actually have to travel you know. Eve is one of the few MMOs that don't actually make you go anywhere to advance. Quote: Everyone wants to get to the fun right away, wherever that lights up on the map, and we'll put up with some wait time, or logistics challenges, but NOT an extreme sadistic amount of them. It's a very fine balance. Of course everyone wants fun, but jumping right into it...how do instas actually do that? It your fun always 60+ jumps away...and if it is...why don't you just live there? Quote: Originally by: Thor Xian As for frigates, if more people flew them, the relative effectiveness of them would go up considerably. And the need to have larger ships would drop, which would promote the use of small modules and equipment. The market would shift to smaller ships rather than just 'better' ships. Yes, but MMO's are built on the principle of advancing your character to bigger and "better" things. People can fly T1 frigates as soon as they create a char, and they can fly frigates well within a couple months max. Once they get there, the choice would be "do I fly more of these frigates as the game "entices" me to, or do I quit cause I'm bored?" If you WANT bigger, get bigger. but why should the game cater to you for it just because you did? Bigger isn't necessarily better, and BSes were never meant to be yachts. If you want fast, go small, if you don't mind slow, go big. All instas and the like do is take the advantages of small ships and give them to everyone. So what is the point in even having different ship classes? Imagine for a minute what the BS blobs will become if you dont let them run willy nilly all over the galaxy with little effort. They will either become coordinated and maybe supported by a Titan or they will get cruiser and even frigate sized. The insta problem is far bigger than simple convenience, it promotes warfare tactics that should not be feasible in a game that has such a strong strategic and even tactical element. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.08 01:19:00 - [78] Originally by: chillz Originally by: Thor Xian Regional Travel is SUPPOSED to be a big deal, not just a 2-3 hour jaunt from one end of the galaxy to the other. Yeah, I remember travelling 50 jumps to join a corp pre highways. I love losing a couple of days game time to get my stuff somewhere. Why join a corp so far away? You must have had strong motivation if you did. So you must have thought it was worth it. That is my point, make decisions that factor in distance matter. If something is 50 jumps away, are you sure you even want to go there? If yes, then go, if not, then don't. The solution isn't to just go buy instas for that route. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
chillz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.08 01:25:00 - [79] It was something like my 4th day in EVE. I'd just about worked out that that getting a hauler would probably cut down on all these annoying trips back to station to drop off my ore. They said "show up here." I said "OK." How was I supposed to know? Best waste of a couple of days I've ever made in EVE. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.08 02:01:00 - [80] Originally by: chillz It was something like my 4th day in EVE. I'd just about worked out that that getting a hauler would probably cut down on all these annoying trips back to station to drop off my ore. They said "show up here." I said "OK." How was I supposed to know? Best waste of a couple of days I've ever made in EVE. Hehe, they could have helped you haul too. You would be surprised how fun it is to do a cooperative hauling op if you got people who actually are fun. "**** Mammoth, stop breaking the speed limits!" ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
chillz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.08 02:04:00 - [81] To be honest I struggled to fill a Hoarder. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.08 02:13:00 - [82] Originally by: chillz To be honest I struggled to fill a Hoarder. Lol, I remember my first hauler, was a Hoarder as well, it seemed so big back then...now I can fill one with just my projectile ammo ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.08 02:22:00 - [83] I'm sorry, but I really don't like all these people who say "just nuke all BMs" because translated that means "make sure no one has observation spots, safespots, sniper spots, tactical spots, deep space cargo depots..." That, would remove the "chess game" element to PvP, that frankly I love. --- Recently returned from vacation on a sunny planet in 0.0. Guess which one!
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.08 02:49:00 - [84] Originally by: Thor Xian No they aren't. You don't actually have to travel you know. Eve is one of the few MMOs that don't actually make you go anywhere to advance. Of course everyone wants fun, but jumping right into it...how do instas actually do that? It your fun always 60+ jumps away...and if it is...why don't you just live there? If you WANT bigger, get bigger. but why should the game cater to you for it just because you did? Bigger isn't necessarily better, and BSes were never meant to be yachts. If you want fast, go small, if you don't mind slow, go big. All instas and the like do is take the advantages of small ships and give them to everyone. So what is the point in even having different ship classes? Imagine for a minute what the BS blobs will become if you dont let them run willy nilly all over the galaxy with little effort. They will either become coordinated and maybe supported by a Titan or they will get cruiser and even frigate sized. The insta problem is far bigger than simple convenience, it promotes warfare tactics that should not be feasible in a game that has such a strong strategic and even tactical element. Yes, other games ARE trying to make travel last less. EVE is one of the few games where you spend the majority of your time travelling, and especially in warp. Most of the others function of the principle of "all the gameplay areas should be as close as possible to an inn." In any case, it is about instant gratification, but not absolute. There should be some travel time involved, because I agree with you that having none or too little affects game mechanics in an undesirable way. My point is that with the instas, it was sort of ok, and so the warp to 0 should replace that. You think we need more travel time, because the benefit of local markets and local "gaming" / local sandboxes would benefit the game as a whole. We seem to have 2 sandboxes now, Empire and 0.0, with the transition between them being made "difficult" by means other than the "mind numbingly long trip" deterrent. Does it benefit the game that we have 2 sandboxes and that it's difficult to go from one to the other? Within 0.0, insofar as each alliance space being its own pocket sandbox, with travel between being made "difficult" (maybe not) by camps, is that desirable? The answer can be yes or no, I don't really care or have an opinion, but replacing the camps and the need to have camps or some sort of defense mechanism to separate your own sandbox from the rest, replacing that by a 24hr trip mechanism, I don't think that's desirable. I think that if a group wants to separate a chunk of space, they should do so, and they should be able to do so somehow, but NOT via relying on mind-numbing long travel. I prefer to have it be easy / fast to get to anyone's space, or to the mission, or to the belt, but once there, the chances of surviving should be as difficult as the defender wants to make them (they should have the tools to do so). As far as frigate vs. battleship, progression is progression, and going backwards does feel boring. If you don't let BS blobs run willy nilly all over the galaxy, my opinion is that those players will get bored and quit; I don't think they'll go back to flying frigates. Add "for the next year" to the end of every sentence. In any case, these are my opinions, nothing more. I'm very casual about this game; character sits in station training learning skills, while I blab on the boards or play other games. I don't really care where the game is going; if I like it I play, if not, not.
Elphaba II	Posted - 2006.11.08 02:56:00 - [85] Originally by: FFGR Originally by: Ravenal Originally by: FFGR Assuming the warp to 0 gets in, ID prices will rise and nobody will buy small anchorable bubbles. uh... why should people stop buying bubbles if warp to 0 gets in? Because right now people only have gate to gate BMs in order to travel. If you scan and see a bubble on the gate you can be sure that you will get drawn by it. With the new patch, you warp to a planet/sun, alas any object that isn't in the "line" of the bubble effect and you just hit warp to 0. There you go, small bubbles 100% ineffective now, medium would still be used for lockdowns of systems and maybe bigger camps. Do you actualy think that people that know what they are doing with bubbles would just put a small one directly in line with the other gate? My bubble camps have about 4 smalls and 3 meds... no matter where you come from you are caught. Plus, what a good time it would be to seed the large warp bubbles? Hmmm...? 1 for a gate camp and you are done. NO ONE will be able to warp to gate. And just think, CCP just actualy might have a clue.. :)
Varis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.08 11:59:00 - [86] gah... worst decision ever if CCP put "warp to 0" into tq

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