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I've never played a game that cators to grief play as much as this one

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:12:00 - [1] Granted my view point is a little messed up right now. Having played game for a while now ( 2 years in feb ) and loosing literally everything you own on a retarded game mechanic will have that effect on people. But let me explain: I spend 80% of my time in 0.0 and %20 of my time in empire. I was on a empire run when a well practiced group blew up my iteron 5 hauler [with high end expanders] in a .5 system. I was not at war with them, I wasn't afk, I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything (and I mean everything) I own in the form of Bpos/Bpcs/mods etc into nothing. Let me save the naysayers the effort: And explain outright that I understand that this is an accepted method of game play (to shoot and take the Concord hit) and then have your mates loot. But its specifically because its accepted that I come to the conclusion this game is a griefer playground. I have invested as much time and energy in this game as griefers, yet because I chose to move my stuff through what was suposed to be secure space, I am being penalized and the "material" representation of time is now gone. If you don't want players to partake in care bearing empire runs then dont bait them with what is 99.99999999% of the time secure space and write off being ganked with a "you should have known better" attitude. Just call this a %100 pvp only game where combat can happen against your 1hp hauler any time anywhere and remove policing altogther or otherwise repair this pathetic game mechanic. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:19:00 - [2] whos trolling who here? -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:22:00 - [3] Read people , read. I perfectly understand this is accepted game play...thats my point. The fact that non combat characters can't move their crap through safe space is grief at its very core. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:26:00 - [4] what would help is to buff haulers just by a bit so they cant be shot in a hit or two instead of catoring to all griefers in this scenario. If you werent in a hauler you wouldnt die in a hit or two, why penalize people for moving their gear around in situations where tehy would other wise be %100 protected. If i were in 0.0 system that would be different. Whats the point of "prefering safer" systems if they're only safe if survive griefers ganking at an empire gate? -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Dee Ellis I guess you walk in downtown Chicago on Friday nights, alone, in a dress, right? Man whatever you dream up on your own time is entirely up to you. But a .5 system is not downtown Chicago. Learn to make thoughtful comments about things without insulting people. That goes for a lot of you. You can talk about something without making personal attacks. Anyone who sits at a gate camp scanning ships in .5 ++ systems is by definition a ganker - the term "ganker" was first implemented in UO and it was in UO that people would stay just outside the range of the guards to kill people walking by for their stuff. The difference is these gankers are griefers because they take a weak game mechanic and make it their own because they're fighting --in-- the guard range that covers everyone else but the haulers. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Too Kind If you had been a bit more forum whoring, you would have know it. Suicide ganking is a well known topic for years and it has become more and more common with each thread like this. It's not the exception any more, it's daily practise. The problem here isn't griefing. Eve just punishes making mistakes like making wrong decisions based on wrong assumptions hard.You should have known that high sec doesn't mean 99.99% safety, but that the risk is really high, if you present a really juicy target. Uninformed, wrong assumption, put all eggs in one basked => EVE decided to strike you hard for this this time. P.S.: Pointless, if I like suicide ganking or not. As long as it's part of the EVE reality, you have to take care to avoid the pain. What your'e saying is high sec is safe for anyone in ships other than an iteron Mark 5.....its safe for thoraxes, its safe for ravens its safe unless you are an industrial char going about their business. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:50:00 - [7] 1. if you jump trhoguh empire space and 99.99 % of that time is over 1.5 years and you've never had an incident and then you get ganked by a lame game mechanic where is the real problem? 2. if 3000 ppl have this problem where is the real problem? Is it really with the stupid noobs like me who think they can warp through "safe" space or does it rest with a mechanic that allows all by haulers to pass by safely? -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Too Kind Originally by: Rekindle 2. if 3000 ppl have this problem where is the real problem? Is it really with the stupid noobs like me who think they can warp through "safe" space or does it rest with a mechanic that allows all by haulers to pass by safely? Well, I don't know, how many that problem have. But one of my ex-corp mates, also experienced 0.0 pvp player, lost one of his tech-2 bpos right when I tried to get it from his agent. Was not an uber BPO, but anyway. Suicide attacks were one of the standard topics at that time, too, because a new wave of suicide ganking had begun. He filed an exploit petition, but got the answer, that it is no exploit. I was just totally surprised that my mate didn't know about it. 2004, when I joined the game, I've heard already about the first suicide attacks with kestrels. If you'd bother to have read my post before jumping at the chance to flame yet anotehr poster you'd see that I understand this is an accepted mechanic of the game. I'm not on here saying what omfg ccp stop the sploiters -- I'm saying this game is condusive to griefers and macro miners and its too bad that there wasn't a little something to help out the players who dont pvp 24 x 7 365 -- im not talking about magic griffons that fly me here and there or im not talking about magic soul stones - just a stop to the cheap ass tactics of sitting at a empire gate waiting for a iteron hauler to come through so you can suicide yourself with the hope of scoring some loot. Regardless of whether its accepted or not can we not agree that its totally a lame tactic that doesnt have to be given credence? -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:09:00 - [9] Originally by: Dee Ellis Downtown chicago got cops too And they're not even half as fast as Concord. Now about thought out posts, you try to make on and I'll try to follow example, but not until you've actually tried and put som effort into it. This isnt chicago, I'm not in a dress or whatever it is you're messed up mind is going on about. How about you stick to the topic of this conversation which is the subject of empire ganking at .5 gates --not-- my ability to out do you in some weak minded flame fest or otherwise go derail someone elses thread. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 01:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Cipher7 I accepted a long time ago that Eve is Juvi Grieferville. 2 years and you didn't know? Yeah and its reflected quite well on the boards for the most part too. You come on, express an opinion on something and instead of people trying to maturely discuss the topic they insult you instead. There's nothing left for me here. -------------------------------------------

Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 02:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Eilie Originally by: Rekindle Originally by: Cipher7 I accepted a long time ago that Eve is Juvi Grieferville. 2 years and you didn't know? Yeah and its reflected quite well on the boards for the most part too. You come on, express an opinion on something and instead of people trying to maturely discuss the topic they insult you instead. There's nothing left for me here. Good riddance. One less idiot in game. One less troll on the forums... and yes, you are the troll here: People give you good advice but you just ignore them and keep whining and making untrue claims. I'm sure the WoW forums would love another troll. once again I would question whos trolling who here. I come on here to express an opinion on a mechanic taht is obviously broken and the usual suspects of eve forum posters take the opportunity to pounce on me like im some stupid noob whos never played an MMORPG game. The truth is I've played far too many MMORPG games and anyone who clearly has experience should look at the issue of gate campers in NPC patrolled space with some suspicion and question it. I havent yet disagreed with the notion that it IS a game mechanic-- perhaps it was stupid of me to attempt to work the way I did within that mechanic. that does not, however, take away from my orignal notion that the mechanic is stupid and its broken. No matter how often you narrow minded types flame me, call me a stupid noob idiot who knew better, I will maintain my belief (which I'll add attacks no one, trolls no one) that the mechanic , as it is, is designed to support grief play and we wouldnt be having this conversation it if wasnt condusive to such. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 02:55:00 - [12] Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 03:01:04 Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 02:58:46 Originally by: Eilie Originally by: Rekindle The truth is I've played far too many MMORPG games and anyone who clearly has experience should look at the issue of gate campers in NPC patrolled space with some suspicion and question it. I havent yet disagreed with the notion that it IS a game mechanic-- perhaps it was stupid of me to attempt to work the way I did within that mechanic. that does not, however, take away from my orignal notion that the mechanic is stupid and its broken. No matter how often you narrow minded types flame me, call me a stupid noob idiot who knew better, I will maintain my belief (which I'll add attacks no one, trolls no one) that the mechanic , as it is, is designed to support grief play and we wouldnt be having this conversation it if wasnt condusive to such. There's your problem. You're comparing EVE with your knowledge of other MMORPGs. But that is something that you can't do because EVE is nothing like other MMORPGs. The mechanics are designed so that it is easy to lose stuff and that's why it's called pirating and not griefing in EVE. Having stuff lost so easily is what keeps the EVE economy running. Games with no loss all have really bad economies (which are usually also controlled by chinese currency sellers.) As I said in an earlier post, removing the ability to sucide gank will ruin the EVE economy due to both less stuff needing to be replaced and invincible macrominers. It would also remove all of the skill and strategy needed to move expensive stuff around; you might as well just let people teleport all their stuff between stations in high sec... So you need to choose: Do you want to play a game controlled by chinese macroers where RMTers are better than the real players? Or do you want to play a game with a strong economy where everyone has an equal chance as long as they use some intelligence? That is such terribly flawed logic I don't know where to begin. Are you actually suggestioning that gold farmers will take over the eve economy and mudflation will run rampant if gate gankers are not allowed to continue sitting at gates like Jita and other places? We have players running 15 macro miners at once for weeks on end and you think that allowing me to fly through empire space with the expectation that guards will act as designed designed is going to turn EvE into WoW. This is why I can't take half the flames some of you people dish out seriously. Have you actually listened to yourselves? Some these were the types of arguments taht were put to bed 10 years ago. My god. Ps. your comment about the racial origns of gold farmers is pretty narrow minded don't ya think? Most Gold farmers are actually not from Asia. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 04:10:00 - [13] Oh we could go on. Like I could say there are legimate gold sinks all over the eve universe- insurance, tax, clone costs, ships lost to legimate pvp and pve encounters but then you would come up with some other reason why you feel its a legit tactic for some group of gankers to sit a empire gate taking concord hits so they can score a bit of loot.....How exactly to the looters sink their the stuff they steal? Its too bad this community can't talk about something legitimately without it turning into personal attacks. Its a tactic that results from something that was not designed - it has to do with the fact the time lapse between then the guards are triggered and when they arrive is greater than the time it takes for a t1 iteron to blow up. Some of you suggest that the solution is to not fly an iteron in high sec space - well if you want to cure a head ache by cutting of the head I guess that works too. See, there is dieing to a legit pvp encounter and there is dieing to cheap ass tactics. Tonight I encountered the latter and I put it in the same cateogory as logging out in combat, BM copying, and other less than prestigious "techniques" this game offers to augment pvp encounters. I'll step out of this thread and agree to disagree with you all. I'm obviously in the minority here which is fine, I guess. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 04:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Kaaii The way I see it, they did you a favor.... Imagine all the fun you had in the last two years aquireing your little bits. They didn't take that, the fun away. Now you can have more fun getting new stuff..... a most optimistic view point on things Kaaii....I appreciate that at this point actually. I can't help but equate the stuff lost to the amount of freakin time I spent acquiring it- its not really the stuff as much as it is time wasted to some ass clown that bothers me so much. I think one of the solutions is i need to stop playing games that caters to griefers under the ruse of legitimate pvp. Thanks for the uplift though :) -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:25:00 - [15] Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 13:27:57 I have had some sleep and now I understand the difference between my point of view and most that have come here. Piracy to me is something that happens in low sec/ zero sec systems. Empire space in high sec space, outside the paradigm of empire war, is a consentual pvp zone. You can not, normally, fire off on someone in empire without their consent (which gets implied when you gang them/flag off something etc). I'm comparing this to other games that have created consentual and non consentual zones of pvp encounters (well, well, well before WoW). In many games if you attack within the range of "guarded space" you get insta wacked. Eve has a similar system except its not sufficient enough to protect everyone, just people in certain ships. I propose such as system encourages grief play, something I continue to believe regardless of how much advice, flaming or insulting some of you may dish out here. (Learn to attack the idea, not the person - its really quite shallow and immature). The general feed back provided is: You should have known better -Which I agree, give me a cookie for having such a big egg on my face. I accept that my stuff is gone, but that doesn't mean (with my plethora of knowledge of other PvP games) I have to like it. You should have outfitted module X,Y and Z to avoid such ganks. Again, this is like saying you should put on a radiation suit to avoid the nuclear testing in your back yard: Just because its happening doesn't mean you have to automatically accept it. You've been playing the game for 2 years and you dont have 1 bil to fly a friegther? I have been playing the game for x time, that char was an alt . This is an accepted form of play and it helps to keep the economy in check - Perhaps the craziest thing I've ever heard in my 10 years of online gaming. Weak argument founded on a limited experience in MMORPG games. The bottom line is this is a l a m e tactic and no matter how much you folks choose to insult me (which is basically pouring salt on a wound) it remains a lame tactic. I'm not on here ranting about dieing to a bubble or dieing in .4 space or dieing to a fair battle or even dieing to lag. The fact that guards respond to non consentual pvp contact in a "high security" zone is a well known fact. Whats ironic is if I had happened to have a fitted cruiser or something in the area I wouldn't have a chance at getting my stuff back because had I fired on these guys I would have been concorded. So once and for all I have the following conclusions: I dont need your advice on how to protect myself (If i do decide to rebuild i'm quite certain i've learned that lesson). please feel free to flame me though since you all seem to get off on that. Iteron m5 ships are used to transport trit - thats it - if you want the luxury of moving other items spend the 1 bil on a freigther or 100mil on t2 hauler. or ship x y z to avoid a broken game mechanic, because its fine the way it is and it helps the economy. This game caters to griefers by making non pvp targets fodder for people who spend 10-15 hours a day sitting a gate waiting for stuff to come through -- that is the crux of the eve experience. I've heard the suggestion that this game embraces Dwarinistic concepts (Dwarin was an idiot btw) but the reality is the risk vs reward pardigm of this game is so majorly messed up its not funny. For a sand box game it sure does caste people into some pretty tight ruts. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:37:00 - [16] again our understandings differ: Wikipedia Generally, players are griefers if their in-game conduct violates the norms, either explicit or implied, of in-game society in such a way as to frustrate and anger other players. Actions considered to constitute griefing include but are not limited to: kill stealing, player killing, spamming, team killing, ninja looting, spawn camping, and corpse camping. Using exploits in order to harass other players also constitutes griefing. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:53:00 - [17] Rule #1 of mmorpg games - if you give players the option to grief (as previously defined by me for the naysayers) they will use it. If you want to make a massive multiplayer game work and not get the rep of being a game that is a griefer's play ground you need to close the gaps for grief play - not say its an accepted method. The solution to this is quite simple - the risk to a hauler needs to be balanced a bit more. Maybe if you're in a hauler the security rating of a system should change? Or if some ass clown decides to fire at a ship in empire the penality should be increased to properly measure up against the risk that people take moving their hangars from one part of space to another. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:10:00 - [18] Tarazed Aquilae learn to read someone's thread before you actually insult them. If you can't be bothered to read the thread you really have no business making personal attacks. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 07/11/2006 14:11:31 Originally by: James Duar How in god's name can you conclude that high-sec piracy is a 'farming' activity? Go to Jita and take a look at all of them hanging at gates, it's absurd. These "pirates" hang out in front of the cops all day out in front of wal-mart picking ppl off and stealing their goods... Can you honestly say that this is what CCP envisioned 1.0 space to be? Really? If so, you're foolish... Thanks, in less than my 500 paragraphs I've written today you've just summed it up. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 14:43:00 - [20] Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 14:44:45 Originally by: Tirg Originally by: Rekindle Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 13:27:57 I'm comparing this to other games that have created consentual and non consentual zones of pvp encounters (well, well, well before WoW). In many games if you attack within the range of "guarded space" you get insta wacked. Eve has a similar system except its not sufficient enough to protect everyone, just people in certain ships. However, in Ultima, you could get theived in town. They would go grey, you could call the guards, they'd get instawhacked, but you wouldn't get your item back. He was smart enough to pass that item off to his buddy before dieing, or his buddy looted him and passed it to a 3rd guildmate, before he also got whacked. The person traded to never got whacked:) Sound familiar? If you got caught stealing the item it was returned as you got insta wacked. not to mention the fact theives have to grind for months to acquire their skills and that was the theiving skill not the ganking a ship at a .5 gate "skill". -------------------------------------------

Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 16:16:00 - [21] Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 16:17:01 A lot of you have lost sight of what pvp is, really you have. PvP is player vs player combat. Its not logging off, its not mass logins/mass log outs, its not book mark copying, and its not sitting in front of the police to suicide gank haulers as they come through other wise secure space in Jita so the defender has no recourse. I'm over the fact I've lost my stuff - I have to be or there is no point for me to post here or even log on tonight. It sucks and I think its lame. I do question how long I will play now because I can't get over how much time its taken to acquire that stuff. Yes it was stupid of me to take that type of risk within the dynamic of the game. That doesn't change the fact its lame. What is more lame is that there is a subset of the community that think this is what pvp is. Give your heads a shake ffs. Do you want a balanced pvp community where you fight other people in the spirit of competition or do you want more options to gank hauler noobs moving through "secure" space? The same type of element existed in UO and there were those that claimed to be elite PvP'rs. If you're looking for ways to suicide gank yourself to kill haulers through empire space IMHO you're not a pvp player and you dont deserve the title. A game doesnt have to be unfair to be hard core pvp, a game doesnt have to be endorse griefers to be non care bear. Let me buy you some tin foil hats. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:55:00 - [22] Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 21:58:18 Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 21:56:06 no more " you stupid idiot you flew an iteron in empire space" responses are required - we're beyond that No more " you should have had module x" fitted - we're beyond that too I was not in .4 space, i was not in 0.0 space, I was attacked and I had no recourse once concord killed them. I dont debate that this is a tactic and I should have known better but taht does not digress from teh fact it was UTTERLY LAME and CHEAP and I'm not afriad to stand up agasinst all the pvp wananbes to say it. Real pvp'rs are off pvp'ing anyway. This issue is best put by Bhaal. This tactic allows you to stand by a guard kill someone and loot thier crap right in front of them. If that is not grief play then wth is? To anyone who is afraid this game will turn into WoW if it forces you to play a balanced and fair game let me buy you a tin foil hat. I think half the people that proport to be pvp'rs are just griefers in sheeps clothing anyway. PvP is a dieing art and is being contaminated with grief tactics and grief players who dont have a pair big enough to play on even playing fields....this is why people are left resorting to tactics like sitting on a gate in jita drooling like a dog just waiting at teh chance to abuse a game mechanic for their benefit. I dont expect to make many friends with my opinions, I found that this community is generally made up of very hostile people anyway. When you boil down this issue to the reality of the situation yes i shoudl have known better but thats not really my point anymore. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 22:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Ikvar So you lost everything you've owned after playing? Who cares? Why make a thread about it? Move on or quit the game, if you don't like the way EVE works then simply don't play the game. People like you sometimes make me think you get yourself killed in these ways just so you can get all uppity and self righteous. Whos being sell rigteous here? I'm pointing out an obvious flaw in game mechanics which you rebute by flames and insults. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 22:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Arii Smith You dolt, it is NOT an obvious flaw in the game mechanics that is what everyone is arguing about. It is obvious to me that it is NOT a flaw, and obvious to you that it IS a flaw. Do you see why people are talking in this thread now? Yeah its called an opinion, a perspective, a point of view. one of us is capable of forming a thought without degrading into personal attacks on the other. Anyway, this thread is running its course. Tehre IS an issue and it is a FLAw in the game mechanics that allows this to happen its obvious by the consequences. nn all. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 22:51:00 - [25] Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 22:52:24 Originally by: Alowishus [:roll: You're saying piracy is griefing. Maybe piracy does cause you grief but it is an intended part of the game. And lastly, ffs quit your whining. That is exactly what I am Not saying. Thanks for putting words into my mouth but I have had many brushes with pirates and im not against that form of game play whatsoever. We just have differing view on what" piracy" is and what risk vs reward is. Saying this is piracy is saying logging in /out during fleet ops is uber pvp. Give your head a shake man! -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.07 23:05:00 - [26] Edited by: Rekindle on 07/11/2006 23:07:30 We're here to prove nothing. we're here to express opinions on game play mechanis. We're not here to express who's pee wee is bigger than someone elses. We're not here to say "no you're wrong Coronel sanders". I'm not attacking you or your play style - im talking about a game tactic which is obviously flawed. Please for the love of god stop trying to turn this int oa me vs you debate. Im not against piracy unless your defintion of piracy is equated with exploitation. Its a debate on teh mechanics of the game, not a petition to turn it into wow. my god I thought these debates were settled 10 years ago in UO. Let me get my crayons out and draw this out for people: There is a difference between pvp, between piracy and between grief cheap ass tactics which are clearly in violation of systems that were intended to thwart such tactics. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.08 00:45:00 - [27] lol when i lost all my stuff a little puppy died. I find it ironic taht people are acusing me of whining when i've openly admited over and over that I @#$@# up. All im trying to do is address the issue and stay on topic and not have a little ****ing match with various people. I choose to address the issue and thus I get flammed for it. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.08 01:24:00 - [28] Edited by: Rekindle on 08/11/2006 01:26:51 Originally by: Ki An In a futile attempt to lighten the mood in this debate I bring you this 2 a.m. attempt at humor Piccy /Ki bah hahaha that was freakin hilarious--- heheheehehe. Even though it might be perceived that I'm laughing at my own expense i spewed beverage all over my screen - lol tyvm for that. Just one question: where did you get that pic of my hauler blowing up? lol that sums this thread up quite well. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.08 01:29:00 - [29] im the old guy in whos beein playing MMOs since WWII. nice distraction from the issue at hand to see that m8. I stil have my point of view and stuff on it but that was @#$#@ hilarious. classic. -------------------------------------------
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.08 17:27:00 - [30] I think theres still some confusion over the initial intent of this post. I don't think piracy is bad for the game. But anyone whos lost the ability to discren between the concept of suicide ganking in empire and sitting at a low sec/0 sec gate committing acts of piracy (or otherwise working within the confinds of normal game mechanics) is clouding the issue. this isnt a whine post about nerfing piracy or begging for a 1 up on the "bad guys". It makes me sick that everytime people bring up an issue its an automatic challege to the rights of the poor disenfranchised "pvp" members of the community. It also makes me sick that by pointing out some obvious flaw - that is a difference between what was intended, and what is actually happening, that i am some how unworthy or I dont understand the game mechanics or that this is how it is and you should live with it. This is a message forum to discuss things. I think you need to ask who is actually whining when you examine the issue. Some of us have raised a point that suicide ganking is inordinate when compared to the rest of the "protections" offered by teh "automatic" systems of this game.....others suggest that any discussion around such inconsistiencies is a direct threat to their playstyle. If your playstyle is based on a game flaw which causes an inordinate amount of risk to other players and results in your gain then you are, by definition a griefer. Grab a cookie and play some game on cheat mode. Maybe the lines between true pvp and game mechanics have been allowed to blur for too long and your judgement is completely lost. -------------------------------------------

Rekindle	Posted - 2006.11.09 03:33:00 - [31] Edited by: Rekindle on 09/11/2006 03:36:25 Edited by: Rekindle on 09/11/2006 03:35:28 methinks that this has been in the game so long people have concluded its a freakin feature. Maybe CCP should put a log-to-alt button right on the right click menu so people can use that feature in PvP as well. Some day someone is gonna come on the forums and say its lame that people log off in combat and others are gonna scream at them for whining and being a carebear and complain that its a feature of the game and the should live with it. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks along similar lines on this particular issue. My flame suit was actaully starting to get a bit toasty. -------------------------------------------

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