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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.11 02:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 11/11/2006 03:00:17
Originally by: Ms Achura What makes Gallente ships better passive tankers? The mid/low slot combination? Extenders plus shield relays?
It's just the ship type Pottsey flies. A Vulture will fit a passive tank that can out-tank the EOS,. It loses a low for a mid (extra extender), and has a built-in, non-stacked T1 invuln field (the 5% resists per level). The Eos, simply has an exta low instead of an extra mid (and 85% kinetic resists) They both also have the same 1000 sec shield recharge, but the Vulture has a natural 750 hp advantage.
Lets check the Situation:
Advantage Vulture:
Resists of 0/60/70/80 are boosted by 5% per level resists Extra midslot Better base shield/sec recharge Bonuses to seige warfare (only good if ganged) Traditional ubar T2 Caldari range
Advantage Eos:
Base resists of 0/60/85/60 (kinetic resists are very nice if you npc on guristas or CN) Extra lowslot Better DPS, both from guns and Drones. More Grid, which extenders eat (considering how crappy caldari pg is)
Now, with that in mind, you must go with your tank, and figure out how many mods you need to use for hardeners, in this case, we'll say 3. That leaves space for 3 extenders on the Vulture, and 2 on the Eos. The extra lowslot gives the EOs 20% better shield recharge. The extra midslot gives the Vulture around 25-30% more shields (and recharge).
Not being able to fly CBCs just yet, I can't physically get into one to get exact numbers, but the Vulture does come out on top in terms of passive-tank. However as Caldari are the shield tanking race, it makes sense really. The Eos, though, will be a far more practical ship, because a Vulture's damage is embarrassingly bad, whereas the Eos has good damage from Drones, and blasters/rails.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.11 03:22:00 -
[32]
Shouldnt the Claymore, with the same shield strength and recharge as the Vulture and the same 6 mids and 4 lows, do nearly as well, if not better due to the better t2 resist bonus allocation for shields than the nighthawk?
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.11 03:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Goumindong Shouldnt the Claymore, with the same shield strength and recharge as the Vulture and the same 6 mids and 4 lows, do nearly as well, if not better due to the better t2 resist bonus allocation for shields than the nighthawk?
The Claymore has less base shields than the Vulture, so ultimately it would have less peak regen.
However, where the Vulture is 0/60/70/80 (with the 5% per BC lvl bonus it becomes 25/70/77.5/85 iirc), the Claymore is 75/60/40/60. Putting a T2 EM hardener on the Vulture will nearly bring its EM up to be on-par with the Claymore, however the rest of its resists will be better than the claymore by a fair amount. The Vulture ultimately ends up being the 'best' passive tanker, however an active-tanked Claymore/Slepnir is another story, and evil as hell.
I'm too tired to do complex math, but if you want to compare them, go with the Vulture's resists being 25/70/77.5/85 vs the Claymore's 75/60/40/60.
You figure, to even out the resists, you'd need a T2 em hardener on the vulture to get up to around 66.25 EM resist, with a T2 invuln helping push it up towards 72-73% iirc, as well as boosting the other three resistances. So let's say 2 mods to get the EM up.
Now the Slepnir. You're looking at a T2 kin/therm hardener, pushing your resists up around 73 and 82, still alittle below the Vulture. Your explosive is also alittle lower. however, with the use of a T2 invuln (well t1 really to simply match resists) you can bump your exp/kin/therm up to, or slightly higher than, the Vulture's resists. You've used three mods compared to the Vulture's two.
You now are left with:
Vulture has 4 midslots, 4 lowslots. Claymore has 3 midslots, 4 lowslots. Both have the same 1000 sec shield recharge. The Vulture has 3750 shields base. The Claymore has 3375 shields base. The Vulture gets a bonus to Siege Warfare links, which can boost shield resists when in a gang.
Tank-wise, I believe the Vulture comes out on top. It can basically fit 2 Em hardeners t match the Claymore, which has to likely fit an invuln, kin and therm hardener, leaving the Vulture with an extra extender slot.
Pottsey can nitpick my late night explaination if they'd like.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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slothe
Caldari Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.11 04:03:00 -
[34]
what faction battleship do you want to test?
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FraXy
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.11 04:06:00 -
[35]
Originally by: slothe what faction battleship do you want to test?
Rattlesnake after Kali with modified-HG Crystals should get some nice HP/Sec.
This is my lazy attempt to make an uber-signature, please go away!
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eveplayer11
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Posted - 2006.11.11 07:24:00 -
[36]
Edited by: eveplayer11 on 11/11/2006 07:24:55
Originally by: Angus Torg And to be honest, I don't understand why HAC's only get a HP boost of ~25%, while all other ships get around 50% (CS even more).
T1=50% T2=25% , HAC=T2 Battlecruiser/destroyer and capital class ships are exeptions, CS = battlecruiser class...
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VaderDSL
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.11 07:51:00 -
[37]
I'm going to have to resub now and try this, I have 7million skill points in engineering, all skills at lvl 5 except compensation skills
if i get my macbook pro and get eve installed I shall have a play |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.11 08:00:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Goumindong on 11/11/2006 08:03:41
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Vulture has 4 midslots, 4 lowslots. Claymore has 5 midslots, 4 lowslots. Both have the same 1000 sec shield recharge. The Vulture has 3750 shields base. The Claymore has 3375 shields base. The Vulture gets a bonus to Siege Warfare links, which can boost shield resists when in a gang.
Fixed that for you, the Claymore has just as many mid slots as the vulture, and you dont need to fit that t2 EM hardener. Your analysis is dependant on the Claymore fitting more hardeners than it needs to[and ignoring the large difference between 75 and 80% resists]
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.11.11 08:07:00 -
[39]
Pre-Kali, I wouldn't have minded seeing some passive shield tank modules boosted considerably, and stacking penalties added to allow more tactical mods.
Post-Kali, I'm not so sure.
Unless warp disruption could outrange NOS so lasers could make a comeback. 8)
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Pottsey
Gallente Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.11 08:24:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Pottsey on 11/11/2006 08:24:58 I need to double check my notes but in theory I could break well over 250 with a Rattlesnake I donÆt have the skills either to fly one so perhaps the test server would be a good place to borrow a ship. That way I can train skills I never plan to use.
How much are Rattlesnakes now? I have to check the skills as well for roleplay reasons. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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FraXy
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.11 16:45:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 11/11/2006 08:24:58 I need to double check my notes but in theory I could break well over 250 with a Rattlesnake I donÆt have the skills either to fly one so perhaps the test server would be a good place to borrow a ship. That way I can train skills I never plan to use.
How much are Rattlesnakes now? I have to check the skills as well for roleplay reasons.
Around 1.8-1.9 bill on escrow from what i`ve seen.
Caldari and Gallente BS 2 is requirement afaik.
This is my lazy attempt to make an uber-signature, please go away!
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Janus Ovellian
Minmatar Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.11 17:54:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Janus Ovellian on 11/11/2006 17:57:37 If you don't actually care about the resists on your command ship (or being able to fit anything else!) then the astarte actually has the highest potential raw dps recharge at about 230 hp/s.
That's with a frankly ridiculous 4 large extender II's and 6 shield power relay I's setup, giving 17206.875 hp recharging in 186.7776 seconds. (with 5% implants for both hp capacity and recharge - and the siege warfare mindlink 15% hp bonus in gang).
In second place comes the absolution with 13471.~hp and recharge of 149.42208 seconds - giving 225hp/s In third place is the dam-nation with 16640.~hp and the same recharge rate as the astarte - giving 222hp/s. (Of course you can't actually 'fly' these ships with such setups.)
Then the eos in fourth with 218hp/s.
Caldari and minmatar follow.
--edit so you can read the word dam-nation
Interesting times await... |
Horza Otho
Minmatar Silver Star Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.11 18:45:00 -
[43]
I think a stupid but fun record wud be gettin all the stuff u needed to get around 60k shield mark on a rattle --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.11 18:51:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 11/11/2006 18:52:46
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 11/11/2006 08:03:41
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Vulture has 4 midslots, 4 lowslots. Claymore has 5 midslots, 4 lowslots. Both have the same 1000 sec shield recharge. The Vulture has 3750 shields base. The Claymore has 3375 shields base. The Vulture gets a bonus to Siege Warfare links, which can boost shield resists when in a gang.
Fixed that for you, the Claymore has just as many mid slots as the vulture, and you dont need to fit that t2 EM hardener. Your analysis is dependant on the Claymore fitting more hardeners than it needs to[and ignoring the large difference between 75 and 80% resists]
I know they have the same slots, however I was showing what you have left after fitting hardeners to make them match each other's resists as closely as possible.
edit: I keep forgetting to factor implants into my passive tank figures. With Rigs, implants, and max shield hp/regen skills, you can go well past 300 hp/sec peak on a Vulture.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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regergy6h
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Posted - 2006.11.11 18:53:00 -
[45]
anyone ever tried 6 flux coils and 4 extenders? its sorta like the 55hp monk in guildwars... super regen on low sheild.
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Pottsey
Gallente Acme Shipping Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.11 19:52:00 -
[46]
ôI think a stupid but fun record wud be gettin all the stuff u needed to get around 60k shield mark on a rattleö I think I have everything needed fro that just missing the ship. Getting tempted to get one just put of by the Caldari skills needed.
ôanyone ever tried 6 flux coils and 4 extenders? its sorta like the 55hp monk in guildwars... super regen on low sheild.ö Flux modules are rubbish and should not be used. You donÆt get super regen its more mid regen and low shields. Shield relays or PDS are much better.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Wat0721
GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.11.11 20:12:00 -
[47]
Originally by: regergy6h anyone ever tried 6 flux coils and 4 extenders? its sorta like the 55hp monk in guildwars... super regen on low sheild.
OT: 55 SoJ Monks got nerfed recently because mobs recognize SoJ as AoE now and flee.
-nothing to contribute for the OP, Wat sux at math- ---
ECM Fix <--still stands, post-nerf. |
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