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Sticky:[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 663	Posted - 2015.05.10 04:49:51 - [1] - Quote Weeeeh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111eleven I see what you did there and who wouldn't love a 94km missile range destroyer that volley tackle of the field so fast that linked interceptors just don't bother. I love her! /me wants to inject the book right now!!! Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 664	Posted - 2015.05.10 16:41:32 - [2] - Quote Gustav Mannfred wrote: Why is the Jackdaw slower than all cruisers and minmatar Bc's? I think, increasing the speed to about 220 m/s would be better than 160. I also propose a 6/5/3 slot layout, that it can fit more damage modules 160 x 1.25 = 200(m/s) with Navigation V. If you put a nano on you should be at 212m/s (guestimated). Pweese everyone, the values in the thread are the one without any skills applied to them. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 664	Posted - 2015.05.10 23:22:55 - [3] - Quote Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Dude. Flycatcher has 63 pwg and has to fit 7 launchers. This has 56 and only needs to fit 5. It has a built in extender. Calm down. again, 56 x 1.25 = 70 with Engineering V. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 664	Posted - 2015.05.11 13:07:17 - [4] - Quote Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote: I understand that a speedy 10mn missile lobbing dessie would be overpowered, but 160 is beyond cruiser slow. Every cruiser in the game is literally faster than it by quite a bit and even 1 CBC (the Hurricane at 165m/s) is faster than it. Surely it doesn't need to be THAT slow. I mean this thing is about 50% slower than a Corax. What is its role/niche exactly? We already have POS missile turrets. 160 x 1.25 = 200m/s with Navigation V. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 669	Posted - 2015.05.12 23:46:15 - [5] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Wow. Wish the recharge rate for the shields was posted. It might be really mean as a passive tank, as a dual MSEII + CDFEII fit gets 5625 shield HP; With a base 800s time, (equal to the svipul) it would pull in a rocking 23 raw HP/s passive tank. Just to take out some suspence that fit gets 6750hp shield with 28hp regen and the base speed in propulsion mode is 266,66m/s and 702,15 with tech2 1mn afterburner. In defence mode and with the damage control on the fitting screen say it's 24.555hp and a signature of 62m. Oh, and 273.7dps with rage rockets, no heat, no implants, no links. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 669	Posted - 2015.05.14 17:14:12 - [6] - Quote The last two days I was trying to figure this boat out but for the live of me it wasn't successful. The bullet points have been covered by now and only little comes to mind. The shield hp bonus feels out of place on that ship and unvoluntarly forces the ship into a pre-fit kind of fitting and flying the ship in a pre-set fit in the mind of the creator. Yeah, we get it you don't like missiles so why not make the blueprint have the buffer fit preassembled when the ship comes out of the bakery so the more than obvious weaknesses get masked in a shiney package? The Confessor and that minmatar thing make fun of the Jackdaw or leave whenever they think they don't like to be there anymore, every time. If you were to engage something like three Tristans in lowsec they will dismantle the Jackdaw so quickly that the unlucky pilot doesn't even know what's happening all the while the Confessor and that minmatar monstrocity would have made jokes about 'only three of them'. It was already mentioned that one medslot could move in the lows and I would suggest baking the inertia bonus into the hull and increase the base speed of the Jackdaw by 33% in propulsion mode instead. And while we are talking about missiles, we should talk rockets a bit. Rockets have been a joke since the day I joined and maybe they deserve to be made into a proper small missiles instead for once. So a renaming would go a long way in public relations in favor of the rockets and when they have a cool name like 'small or light attack missile' and they would definately need an increase of base damage by 25%. No hold your breath for a minute and let this sink in. On the first look 25% sounds like a ton and I already hear the outcry of OP on comms later today already. In any case an example should put your minds at ease and 25% of 100 isn't that much all of a sudden anymore. (And in case of the Jackdaw with one tech2 ballistic control one rocket volley would go from 460hp to 575hp damage rage rocket damage flying 8434 meters into the void hitting or not a shield or armor layer with 50% or less % of that 575hp every 1.8 seconds or 2 server ticks.) Keep in mind that missiles do not really work in terms of dps and not all dps that your fitting screen shows is the same as the other dps and if people would finally realize and memorize it until the end of time some of our lifes would be much easier. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 669	Posted - 2015.05.14 22:59:15 - [7] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Dual prop (or even triple prop fits) can be incredibly powerful, combining speed & signature tanking. And yes, over-fitting is another interesting choice. Getting back a chunk of the speed but loosing agility. A 'choice' that the Jackdaw cannot make anymore by 'design'. Maybe it escapes the drawing board but a regular web will pin down the Jackdaw so hard the buffer tank only buys you a few more seconds to watch your boat go boom. 728m/s with a tech2 1mn afterburner doesn't feel 'propelled' at all and with a mwd the signature of that boat is a slower Naga. So either make it immune to stasis webs or give them a Sansha like small ab speed bonus. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 673	Posted - 2015.05.17 10:23:31 - [8] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Cry me a river, Need for Speed ain't gonna happen. If anything, Confessor/Svipul velocity bonus in Prop mode will get cut from 66.6% to 50%, which still makes them faster than the Jackdaw. Then take a look at Tech 1 cruiser speeds. No. It doesn't have anything to do with need for speed but need for mobility. I think it would be a good idea to give the Jack 10 points more powergrid and increase the base speed to 240m/s in propulsion mode and 192m/s in the other two. Then give it the explosion velocity bonus of the Flycatch in sharpshooter mode and bake some of the agility into the hull and lower the agility bonus into the currenty value of the propulsion mode to stay the same in propulsion mode. Divide the missile speed bonus in 2x 25%, as in 25% goes into the role bonus and the other 25% go into the sharpshooter mode. Put a 50% recharge time into the defence mode so goes down from 600 to 300 seconds in defence mode. That should make a good tactical destroyer. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 673	Posted - 2015.05.17 13:13:05 - [9] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: elitatwo wrote: No. It doesn't have anything to do with need for speed but need for mobility. Mobility = not speed inherently then? All the people rattling, asking for more speed, are not asking for moar Need for Speed, no? Logic, woman! Quote: I think it would be a good idea to give the Jack 10 points more powergrid and increase the base speed to 240m/s in propulsion mode and 192m/s in the other two. Why? Everything fits as is, even 10MN AB. Oh, you want triple MSE? HAHAHA. HAHAHAHA. HAHA. I don't understand. How would you fit three medium extenders and a 10mn afterburner on the same hull? Magic? I said mobility, as in turn around speed. Right now the Jack has the turn around speed of a Crow. This is fine but the maximum velocity that comes with it is too low. So it would feel great on the Jack to have some of that agility in the other modes and the current maximum agility in propulsion mode. My Rokh can make a 180-¦ turn quicker than the Jack can and has the same singature radius (532m). While you believe it is awesome to per-nerf all Caldari ships and better make them auto-explode when they undock, some of us may want to fly with them first and not die upon undocking. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 673	Posted - 2015.05.17 17:48:35 - [10] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: P. S. A Rokh may turn quicker on the spot at zero velocity, it does not align, accelerate, nor decelerate quicker: -in(0.25) * 105,300,000 * 0.136 inertia * 0.9 * 0.75 / 1,000,000 = 13.4 seconds. Jackdaw's mass-inertia ratio is 4.536e6 to 9.666e6 of the Rokh - the former is naturally 2.13 times more agile, and 6.38 times in Propulsion mode. This also applies while using MWDs, as the ratio of ship mass to module mass added is practically the same - 2.1 vs 2.106. The time to reach 10% of respective top speed is 1.018 sec for the Rokh, and 0.47 for the Jackdaw. Did it ever occur to you that I was comparing two very different hull sizes for a reason? I didn't run any calculations I was comparing experience on flying both ships. If you fit a 1mn afterburner your 'unholy' maximum speed in that sooper propulsion mode does not propel anything, it is the base speed of a linked dramiel without propulsion mod. When you change into the 'defence mode' on the Jack with that 1mn afterburner and someone put one regular web on you, your speed with afterburner is 113m/s. In that 'defence mode' that only thing you can defend against is a freighter. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!

elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 673	Posted - 2015.05.17 21:11:51 - [11] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Napkin math: 200 * 1.333 * (1 + (1.68 * (1,500,000 / (1,050,000 + 500,000))) = 700 m/s. AB gonna afterburn. vOv Please log on SiSi and do that, convo me and I show you how good that goes. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 674	Posted - 2015.05.18 13:28:59 - [12] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: ...Is the jackdaw supposed to be the anti-missile user ship or something? Isn't that what every speedtanking ship since the dawn of time has been? That is the one million isk question at this point. If we would get an answer to that I am curious to what that might be. At the current state the Jack is a one-trick pony with one more or less viable fit that is hardcoded into the hull. Do something else and you get toasted. Did you find a way to take less damage with the low speed and 532m signature radius that comes with it? You should even try heavy missiles against a Jack, it's slow and 'big' enough for them. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 677	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:25:44 - [13] - Quote Oh boy, those changes.. While it is new to change ammo in two seconds it still doesn't help the Jackdaw, the ship without purpose or identity. The thing the Jachdaw has going is that it can run away fast and sometimes even fight a frigate or two. Anything more and it is going to be a 100 million isk loss. The Jackdaw cannot fight a Confessor and hope to win and in no configuration fight a svipul or more, it just can't. You cannot mitigate incoming damage by speed or movement with a 1mn or a 10mn afterburner and your signature radius makes you a battleship with a mwd on. Buffer tanks are a futile exercise and active tanks don't help either and believe me, I tried them all. Rockets used to be one option before the change but brawling isn't really popular these days and you would have to pin your target first, so light missiles it is. Bring friends you say? Yes sure but then, every other boat scales too in numbers, don't they? So here it is again, the one million isk question, what are we supposed to fight with it? Ah, I see - NPCs. Thank you for yet another Caldari pve boat. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 678	Posted - 2015.05.30 20:52:37 - [14] - Quote Sorry for barging in again but I did try standard fits with meta4 / tech2 stuff on and no links to get a feeling for the boat first, so all my findings are without any links or 3 billion isk worth of brain surgery. The opponents were linked, snaked and whatnot and some weren't but I couldn't break one svipul in any fit. One Confessor almost got me but I could escape and the others had a really easy time killing the Jack. Even though I like the rocket fits, there was no way I could keep any ship in web-range to poke them long enough with rockets. And while web range isn't a problem to achieve, getting in scram range is. Of course I had a much easier time with links and some bling but I am still conflicted if it is worth to put in on one. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 680	Posted - 2015.06.01 15:13:11 - [15] - Quote Torei Dutalis wrote: So just got around to running the numbers on this thing in PYFA. I take back half the bad things I said about this ship. [Jackdaw, m1] Overdrive Injector System II Ballistic Control System II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II 1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50 Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile [Empty High slot] Small Bay Loading Accelerator I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Auxiliary Thrusters II Prop Mode 200 dps @ 42.2 2508 m/s Your fitting capabilities may surpass mine, but I feel this shows the ship has more than mediocre performance outside of brawling. This is one of the reasons I don't use fitting tools anymore. On paper or on your screen this may look good but the second you undock this you will be made aware of how this flies and what downsides the fitting tool doesn't show. Try this on SiSi and ask some corpmates to shoot you and tell us how it went. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 682	Posted - 2015.06.03 15:20:30 - [16] - Quote Enviah wrote: All that I am seeing from a lot of the posts in here is 'Waaah, waaah, waaah... This ship does not conform to the exact specifications that I wanted so CCP you have ruined my game...'.... This is not what we are saying. The Jackdaw is now the third destroyer hull of the new tactical kind. The first was the Confessor - you might have heard stories from that one but nobody flies them anymore since CCP thought they were so uber-stronkhhh-omg-bbq-wft-pnw-mobiles that would disband pandemic legion and goonsworm before the new sov system was implemented so they had to nerf them into the stoneage. That slav- minmatar one still reigns supreme all over low- and nullsec but since it's a slave- errm minmatar boat it's toats fine and all. Now we get the Jack' and you cannot blame us when we do comparisons based on the other two hulls. Now what was (as in past tense for the Confessor) the thing they had going for them? Was it an indestructable tank with 23992377427874672 ehp? No, definately not. You cannot call 7000ehp indestructable. Was it yolo-super-swap-speed that no interceptor could match? No, it was not. Was it unmatch firepower of doom that was killing supers and titans all day long? Nope, can't say that it was. The thing was that you could (as in past tense for the Confessor) fit an oversized afterbuner on them to not get stopped by a scram or a scram and a web and succum to a noobship. Now all the faction warfare kids cried rivers of tears at the fanfest because they thought it was a totally good idea to try and gank a destroyer hull in a frigate. The destroyer hulls that are already in the game for ages should have given it away that it was a good idea to try that - so they cried, rivers and oceans. Anyhow, from the past experience we were in hope we would get a Caldari boat with missiles that could mitigate damage as good as the other two and were massivly disappointed that it wasn't. As we started to fiddle with the ship on SiSi for a few days it turned out that the Jack' came with so many inbuild weaknesses that it isn't really worth buying the skillbook in the first place. Anyhow that one thing that CCP is kindly forgetting is that low and dullsec are not the only places in New Eden. In unknown space we need that kind of mitigation and punch in one boat because we deal with stronger forces and all kind of different threats. It may have incurred to you that the tech3 shipline was custom made for dealing with those stronger threats. The Jackdaw will be the first sleeper ship that cannot deal with sleepers since all inbuild weaknesses will make sure that sleepers will just volley them of the grid as soon as they land. That the destroyers were good to use in lowsec too should have been given if you look at what our general destroyer class vessel we had for the better part of a decade already. People were so blindfolded by the cruiser madness that they all forgot that there are other shipclasses out there and were talking about imbalance for the frigate class. How dare the next bigger shipclass was stronger at killing the smaller ones?? That is like saying the a Brutix (I still like the Brutix) should get nerfed because she can sink a stabber on her own. We we get here is a Drake with heavy missiles - that one cannot sink anything but a few NPCs. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!

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