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Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
105
   |
Posted - 2015.05.12 15:28:09 -
[1] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:
No I am describing how my ISK making actvity involves risk unlike cyno'ing a jump freighter into the docking range of a station in low-sec.
If JF jumps to low-/nullsec stations really would be so safe, why are there so many kills on zkillboard with Jump Freighters?
To me it simply looks like you never have flown a capital ship before because otherwise you wouldn't compare the "risk" of flying a cloaky ship which costs less than 200 mio isk (incl. fit), a ship which can defend itself and even attack/kill other ships with the risk of flying a sitting duck aka "jump freighter" worth 7 billion, without the possibility to defend itself and slow as hell when it comes to warping, aligning or generally moving in space.
Please also forget the point about webbing. Lighting a cyno in a system attracts much more people than enetering a system through a gate. A cyno is a clear indicator of fun and a nice fat killmail for every pvp player and typically you have visitors at your place within 15 seconds. Also don't forget that you would have to find new cyno spots for every jump and can't reuse existing ones. Nothing is easier to wait with a cloaked camper 5k off your standard spot and then launch a warp disruptor probe.
Making it impossible to dock immediately in LS/NS would kill the economy in these areas, especially the ones which don't have a direct and fast connection to Highsec. Only big allies could afford the required defense backbone to bring in goods with JF while any small group would fail and have to move back to High sec. Black Frog would have to cancel their flights or raise the costs and any free trader currently seeding ls/ns nullsec stations could go back to HS.
If you mention BR as replacements then you never had a look at the cargo size of goods. Feel free to tell me how you want to store bigger ships in a BR or how many runs you plan to do. A BR typically has around 8k cargo space, a JF around 300k. If you want to do 38 instead of a single run to bring in goods - well well.
If you come up with Wormhole routes as replacement then feel free to do it for a while. I have done it and can ensure you that after some weeks you just don't want to spend 2-3 hours scanning down a route from Null to Highsec just to bring in a cargo load which fits into an Orca.
So in short: NO. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
105
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 15:36:34 -
[2] - Quote
[edit] wrong button hit. grrrr |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
105
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 16:18:33 -
[3] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:[
The only risk in this game is ISK and pride. You losing your JF hits me as hard as me losing an Astero. It is all relative to the assets you have in the game. My entire experience with JF's is seeming them pop into existance at the undock of LS stations in almost empty systems. It lookes pretty safe from where I am at.
Can't you just avoid Niarja and Uedama in a Jump Freigter? Isn't that what they are for?
Your response proves that you have no clue about capital ships which explains your feature request.
Niarja/Uedama are off topic because Highsec. Check Hothomouh or Vehan instead. Both low secs with several JF kills despite the fact that they can immediately dock.
Please explain me why killing my JF (worth 7 billion) hits me "as hard" as killing an Astero worth 200 mio(?). There is a clear discrepancy in the isk involved here - 6.8 billion more. It only would be identically hard if I would be able to replace it as easy as I can replace an Astero - which takes me one evening exploration in nullsec.
People only do things If the reward is worth the risk (here: 7 billion loss). So JF would have to become much cheaper or the prices for the goods must go up in any area outside Highsec. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
105
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:17:55 -
[4] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
It mean jump freighter safe if pilot play good EVE. Jump freighter die if pilot play bad EVE. That not fun if you not jump freighter pilot. If you want kill jump freighter, you can only do if pilot stupid or make accident.
I sorry to use big words for you not understand.
This rule applies to every ship type. If you know how to use it, then there is no or only a risk to loose it. You also almost can-¦t loose a properly fit BR in lowsec or a travel raptor. So why punish the ones who know how to use their ships?
I want to add something to the last response: concerning " only about isk and pride and a JF loss hits as hard as the loss of an Astero":
Let-¦s assume you earn the same amount isk/hour when flying an Astero and doing some jobs than when using a JF to haul goods. I already mentioned that it takes (me) only one evening running explorations to replace a lost Astero (I earn around 200 mio isk/evening doing this). To get an idea how hard a JF loss hits you only have to compare how much more a JF costs - around 23 times. To replace a JF I have to run explorations for 23 days.
Use this info and transfer it to the Astero. Imagine you would have to play for 23 evenings to replace your Asterowhen you loose it and then think about the idea of jumping around with this ship in unsecured nullsec. Now you know how it feels when when you move around a capital. Add the issues of such a ship (no defense, no warp core stabs, no cloak, no agility, sloooow speed and a huge size which makes targeting, scanning down and hitting it very easy), top it with the need of using a cyno which is visible for anyone in the system and can be warped at immediately and there you are.
And you really want to make this even harder? I can predict that in such a case almost everyone will stop using it. At least I wouldn-¦t risk 7 or even more billions (because JF are used to haul goods which also cost money) if I would loose one of them every 2-3 travel to nullsec, at least not when the income is as low as it is at the moment. I would continue it only if the income would be much higher which would result in much higher prices for the transported goods. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
106
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 11:36:25 -
[5] - Quote
Khorvek wrote:
Maybe you should learn something about economies, then. The safer goods hauling is, the more stuff saturates the market. The more stuff saturates the market, the lower the price of a good, and therefore the move volume you must sell to make the same profit. I assume you're the same type of person who still mines veldspar even when trit is crashing.
Maybe you should read and understand what people are talking about instead of quoting Business insider web pages?
Low demand and a saturated market cause prices to drop until trader give up (due to low margin) but this has absolutely no influence on PVP. It's only a game between supply and demand which in the end drives the price and nothing else.
On the other side people who want to shoot things need to re stock ammo, modules and ships. When you stop resupplying an area people will have to move away - either in the last remaining ship they have, in a pod or using pod express. So instead of complaining about markets being seeded by traders you should be glad to have them, or do you want to fly back to Jita from the edge of the universe just to pick up another frig and some modules whenever you loose one?
If you believe that Blockade runners offer enough cargo hold to replace JF for seeding markets and not drying up any place in Lowsec/Null then you never had a look at the fitting details of these ship types and the required volumes (in m^3) to seed a market.
If you believe everyone will switch to JF to haul goods because they are 99.9% safe then you never had a look at the required logistics (multiple cyno alts), the costs (Jump fuel, ozone, cyno generators) the limitations (cyno only LS/NS) and the other costs (billions in skills plus a ship worth 7 billion).
If you really understand something about markets (which I doubt by reading your signature) then you would be able to do a short calculation which includes the costs and only the potential profit / low risk. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
106
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 12:16:08 -
[6] - Quote
Juan Mileghere wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:
No idea. I fly though dozens of empty low-sec systems every day. I know that people jump freighters into Beke and Leran all day long with almost nobody in system.
has it ever occured there are reasons some systems are empty?
Some hints why Beke and Leran are empty: Both are low sec systems which don't have anything around them beside Highsec so they are not attractive/big enough for low sec groups. Both systems are also not important for travelling in the region (check the amount of Jumps/14h on dotlan) and can be avoided easily which makes them unattractive for pirates/gate camps.
Such more quite systems are perfect when you have to move goods in a hauler, freighter, JF or orca. And both systems have connections to HS and stations in HS which makes returning from a hauling trip more safe.
However I am pretty sure that you are wrong about Beke as cyno system. I can't find any recent cyno kill on zkillboard which is not surprising because the stations in this system are unsafe. The docking range in both cases is too small for placing a cyno within its range |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
106
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 12:16:58 -
[7] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:
This is a game. What is good for an economy is not necessarily what is good for a game.
So you want to tell us you don't require a ship to fly around? |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
106
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 12:42:04 -
[8] - Quote
And after this thread you still don't understand why people prefer to use some systems and try to avoid others? Do you believe low sec miners like crowded systems? Do you run explorations in null sec in a system with 20 neutrals in local?
|
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
106
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 12:59:44 -
[9] - Quote
A carrier can defend itself. A freighter in HS uses it's tank and Concord for defense. In LS/NS there is no Concord so the only way for a JF to survive is to jump from station to station and dock immediately. And you want to remove the only defense mechanism this ship class has and believe that in such a case people would still spend 10 billion isk to learn how to fly one, buy it and loose it within a short period?
|
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
108
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 13:39:20 -
[10] - Quote
Khorvek wrote:
The market can't exist without PvP or massive losses in PvE, which are largely mitigated by how simple PvE is. ISK can't exist in the economy without NPC buy orders, rat bounties, and mission payouts. That's just how things are.
You still miss the point of this thread. We are not talking about isk faucets and isk sinks, we are talking about the need to move goods around in EVE and the effects of this proposed change.
And here the situation is clear. You need the possibility to move high volumes to keep the economy running.
Moving high volume goods between low/nullsec and Highsec and within lowsec and nullsec can only be done in a more or less safe way using Jump freighters and their only defense is this cyno/docking game which should be removed according to the OP.
Using a JF in a different way (e.g. jumping into a system without station or by using a cyno outside a docking range) is the best way to loose such a ship within a short period. It can only be done in quiet areas when no one else is around and you still find a lot of kills happening in such systems.
What you all forget is that JF haul goods which end on the market. A market can only exist if people are around so JF pilot simply cannot avoid crowded areas. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
109
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 14:35:06 -
[11] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:
Do you think that prohibiting cynos within 10K of Empire stations would cause enough pain in null to trigger some desperation moves?
Let me explain some game mechanism because it seems you never have used a capital.
- A capital ship always is a huge investment and you really don't want to loose it.
- A capital kill is the wet dream of every pvp player. Flying a capital means you are automatically the primary target for everyone.
- A capital ship (without webbing tricks) needs between 9 (with a MWD trick) and over 30 seconds to enter warp after entering a system through a gate or a cyno.
- A capital requires twice the amount of time (or even more) when undocking from a station to enter warp.
- A capital moves around with 70-90 m/sec which gives you an impression how long it takes to move it if you land outside a safe spot or the docking range
- Capitals can be bumped making their time to warp or fly back into safety even longer.
- A single point is enough to stop a JF from entering warp or jumping to a cyno because a JF cannot fit warp core stabs.
- Locking a huge target like a capital is done within seconds, even when you also fly a capital.
- A JF has a huge buffer tank to withstand attacks until the ship can be docked. It is required so you can dock again after you found the area around the station crowded and/or bubbled.
- Because of no warp core stabs and low speed you don't use kick off stations as long as there is no one outside protecting you.
- There are kills where a JF was alphaed by a titan. I don't know how long a titan requires to lock a capital like a JF but it shouldn't take too long. Just don't care for a second and you have problems. Even a JF doesn't survive a DD.
- Probing down a capital requires a single run with combat probes. With 8 AU range you get a 100% lock signal. A probing run takes less than 6 seconds and can only be detected on d-scan. If you see probes in the air but haven't started aligning then good luck.
- A tackler can cross a system and lock you in under 13 seconds.
- If you rat in a carrier you have less than 10 seconds to collect your drones, align to a safe spot and enter warp when a neut enters the system. If you don't have a MWD fitted in such a case you are lost. And in case the other guy is using probes he can chase you through the system until you run out of safe spots or find a cyno to jump to.
- A carrier can fit a cloak and wait until a roaming gang has left the system.
- A JF can't fit a cloak and/or MWD - you can't hide, you can't run.
- If you try to bump off a spot with a JF to avoid bubbles you are lost. Even with a nomad set, lvl 5 skills and three inertial stabs in low you need 16 seconds to enter warp. Probing and tackling takes less time.
- Cynos can be warped at without probing and stay online for 10 minutes except you trigger the self destruct mechanism of the alt.
- Lighting a cyno in a crowded system typically results in visitors appearing on grid within 20 seconds, sometimes even less time.
- If you are not visited and shot then it's only because they assume the precious target has already docked. If we change this mechanism you will have visitors each time you light one.
- The more mass you have the more you enter a warp bubble until your ship stops. A capital has a huge mass and is slow as hell, you know what a bubble means.
- If you have been unlucky and jumped into a system and you are chased around you can't jump out again because you don't have enough cap. Jump fatigue also makes another jump impossible for the next 2 minutes or even longer - enough time to find and pin you.
With these restrictions in mind do you believe I would continue moving goods into nullsec trading hubs where 20-200 pilots are in local and 10 billion or more isk at risk? |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
109
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 07:41:26 -
[12] - Quote
Madeleine Brioche wrote:POST 10K:
1. wait to be alone in system.
2. get bored to wait for hours.
3. sell JF.
Plus add: 1) never happens because with a JF you move goods to trading stations and there is always someone online.
Yesterday my cynoalt was bubbled with an interdiction sphere 12 secs after the cyno went up and I only had 12 ppl in the system at the moment. Good luck in moving goods if such a change is implemented and people start specializing in hunting you. Then the 12 secs are more or less common and no longer an exception. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
110
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 08:09:11 -
[13] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Are we talking about the NEED or the ABILITY to move large volumes of material? Clearly some people think there is a NEED, that it is important, and that we should have a powerful ABILITY to do that.
We are talking about both. There are structures ingame which exceed the cargo volume of a BR (battle cruiser), you need something bigger to move them. And even if the cargo fits you don't want to go into NS and back again with three frigs stored in a BR when you earn only maybe 6 million isk doing this.
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Dustpuppy wrote:Moving high volume goods between low/nullsec and Highsec and within lowsec and nullsec can only be done in a more or less safe way using Jump freighters and their only defense is this cyno/docking game That's just flat out wrong. Moving high volume goods can be done with a regular freighter and safely. It just can't be done in as manhour and manpower efficient a way, but seeing as how this is a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game . . . that's actually a good thing. [/quote]
Stop thinking in Goons when you think about corp sizes and the amount of pilots they can assign to move goods. If you don't have 50-100 pilots to protect your stuff you will loose it to any gatecamp in Nullsec.
But instead of talking in theory, let's prove us that you are wrong. I will set up a a contract for you which requires a freighter or a similar ship and you move the goods from Jita to a NPC nullsec station to ensure you can dock.
Show me that you can seed a market without a JF, move something for me to D87E-A in Curse.
Let's see if you can moonwalk your freighter through the Gatecamps of Khabi and 7Q and drift through GW. Only 47 jumps to do. Man that's easy according to your suggestion. You just need some protection, I heard Ebola is very active in this region and can even bring some carriers and dreads if needed.
You can also choose the shortest way through HED-GP in Catch. Shorter, less jumps, however I heard in HED you require some more ships to protect stuff.
Or come down the road from Derelik over Doril and VOL-MI. Very attractive. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
111
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 09:48:39 -
[14] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Twenty five seconds vulnerability on a trip that would otherwise involve putting your freighter at RISK each time you go through a new system times the number of systems - that is unfathomable.
I am pretty sure you don't fly capitals because otherwise you wouldn't call 25 seconds in space "low risk". As I have mentioned, there are many places which aren't under SOV control and aren't quiet and empty. Any NPC area falls into this category.
But because you like maths, do me a favor and calculate me the risk of loosing a ship when the following rules apply:
The cyno is light and becomes visible. Now the clock is running...
You switch to the JF pilot or tell your colleague to jump over TS. Jumping to the cyno requires the same amount of seconds like using a gate - 5 seconds. After arrival your ship (without webber) requires 26 seconds to enter warp. This sums up to 31 seconds plus some additional reaction time for moving your ship away from the cyno.
Your cyno is bubbled with an interdiction probe 12 seconds after you have light it. An interdiction sphere has a range of 20km while you land 5km off the cyno so you are 100% warp scrambled after that point. Launching a probe can done without a lock, no delays here while your webber needs a lock after your JF became visible.
Now the calculation: How many webbers do you need to reduce the required time so your JF can enter warp?
Please don't come up with "quiet space" or I will also assign a contract to you to bring in goods into a NPC station of my choice. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
113
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 10:37:13 -
[15] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Yes. Call it just risk.
Simple request: can you please answer a single question instead of using obscure messages which only show that you cannot answer them?
So here again is a concrete question:
How many webbers are required to bring down the align time from 26 seconds to 5 seconds?
Without being able to do this you are unable to jump into any system where someone else is there. This makes restocking any NPC lowsec/nullsec station impossible because the goods you move there attract buyers. Buyers mean pilots in space making restocking impossible. So in the end this idea will kill any NPC lowsec/nullsec region. As soon a the local trade hubs are gone people will leave.
Your idea with escort/scout is bullshit. PL alphas Jump freighters with drive by titans. You don't spot a cyno alt and when the light goes up it's too late. Even when you don't bring in big guns a single point is enough to pin the freighter to the place and then bring in ships to kill. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
113
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 11:27:37 -
[16] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:You'll need to account for the coming Citadel stations when venturing to discuss this topic further. Cynos won't stay as they currently are. 
You still haven't learned to discuss and answer questions. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
113
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 12:57:44 -
[17] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Let us entertain your redirection then,
Same here, let's entertain you.
After the change anyone flying a JF would require at least 3 instead of 2 active accounts (because webber). The ship would have to announces itself in the system at least 5 seconds before it appears by handing out a warpable signal to anyone. It only could enter the system in open space and have more handicaps than any other ship type. Expensive, slow, no warp core stabs, no cloak, no surprising fits for baits and a big signature radius to make locking, shooting and probing down easier. To top this a big cargo bay would be included so you get a nice reward beside one of those wet dream capital kills on zkillboard.
Well, I understand that you like PVP and you are desperately seeking for more targets because in the current situation you either seem too dumb to find them or they shoot back and as a result you require some help pointing you to the best and defenseless targets.
So I have a proposal: Every ship should receive such a "here I am" tag when entering a system and this tag can be warped at, too. This also applies when entering through a worm hole or when using a safe spot. Cloaking wouldn't remove the tag. Don't cry, just use a small ship which can warp around to avoid enemies. Also any kind of ship should land outside the docking range of a station and be forced to slow boat into it. We also should remove "warp to zero" at the gates to make things even easier for you.
I hope that at some point even you are able to do some PVP and find some targets. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
124
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 11:29:27 -
[18] - Quote
Hi,
it seems you guys who favor this idea haven't flown a capital at all, because otherwise you would know how stupid your idea is.
First of all it's nonsense not to split capitals into groups because it's the reason why especially JF pilots are against this idea. When flying a carrier you can avoid crowded areas. PVE usage is limited to quiet areas, otherwise you loose them even sooner than you already do. For this purpose you can and should avoid crowded systems. When doing PVP you always fly together with a supporting fleet which protects you.
JF on the other side are only designed to bring goods to places where people are. Telling a JF pilot to stick to quiet areas is like telling a storm chaser to avoid strong winds.
Conclusion: this idea is a direct hit to anyone who must go to crowded areas and can't avoid it because the instant docking mechanism is gone.
Now let's have a look at the defense mechanism. A carrier can be fitted and adapted to changing situations. I can add cap rechargers and warp core stabs for travelling, I can fit a cloak, a mwd which brings me to warp in 9 secs and last but not least I can defend myself in such a ship. Nothing similar can be done with a JF. Its only defense is to dock as fast as possible and rely on the buffer tank for any attack happening during this period.
Conclusion: changing this mechanism would remove the only defense a JF currently has, another reason why any JF pilot doesn't like this idea.
Talking about price:
A JF costs 2-3x more than a fitted carrier and 30x more than a fitted astero - you don't want to lose it.
The "free money with no risk" can only be considered as a joke. There is no calculation how safe it is to use such a ship. All your "facts" rely on some observations and zkillboard shows that this shiptype can and is attacked. What you also forget is that you don't earn money by moving stuff from station A to station B. You make money selling items. So if you hate people who make money without risk, why don't you bring up ideas to eliminate station trading instead of thinking about funny ideas which would make one ship class obsolete?
Last but not least: Considering this mechanism here as "broken" only shows you have no clue about game mechanisms. Every ship is invulnerable as long as don't make a mistake and use it in the wrong way. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
124
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 12:24:13 -
[19] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I'll be honest with you. I want to kill cynoing dreads and carriers. I want them to call in support when I tackle them. I want to fight that support and make explosions.
Well then the reason why you support is not to balance/improve the game but because in the current situation you are not able to kill ships in a place where you want to do it.
What you don't understand is that carriers don't require stations. You can live out of them doing PVE for months without docking (tried it, it works). Second you don't take balance into account. While capitals can cyno&dock (which is a plus) they have the disadvantage that they have to announce themselves before doing it by giving anyone a warpable object at the point where they will appear.
Other ship types have the disadvantage of having to use gates but the advantage of being able to do this without telling you where they are. And as soon as these ships have entered warp and land on grid of the station you also can't attack them before they dock. The result is the same, no matter if cyno or warping to a station. All ships can dock immediately if they jump into the docking range of a station.
So if you want a balanced mechanism which gives disadvantages to everyone while keeping cynos you have to forbid cynos in a range 15km around the docking range of a station and also to force any other ship to land 15km outside the docking range of a station when warping to it. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
126
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 15:50:20 -
[20] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:
Once your JF is on grid it can warp inside the docking ring of a station just like my ships can as long as you are 150km away. I can't dock before I am on grid either.
Let me repeat it for the ones who are a bit slower in understanding things.
The advantage of being able to appear wherever they want (cynos and capitals) is countered by the disadvantage that the entry point must be launched before they jump and this point is visible and warpable to everyone. Other ships now have the disadvantage to use gates when entering a system but the advantage of not announcing their entry point.
-> So this is in balance.
All ship types now share the same feature of being able to immediately dock into a station when they reach the docking range, no matter if entering this range by using a cyno or by warping to the station from a location in the system. Both methods to dock are bullet proof, you can't be killed as long as you don't make a stupid error doing this.
-> Also in balance
If you now want to introduce something which changes this mechanism for one class (cynos/capitals) then you have to do the same for the rest - to keep the balance.
Your idea to forbid cynos around stations forces capital pilots to run through an additional flight phase during which they have to expose their ships to enemy fire. It's only fair to use a similar same approach then for any other ship type and also add some risks here.
One idea would be to force them to slow boat 15km until they reach the docking range of the station. Another idea would be to for them to slow boat 15km until they reach a jump gate and another one to drop the initial cloak so they can be warp scrambled immediately. All ideas offer an attacker an additional time frame to find and kill them, and that's the idea you have introduced here for capitals.
So choose whatever you want but don't try to change a balanced mechanism into an unbalanced one just because you would like to kill a specific ship type and in the current situation you are only too dumb to do what others can do: shoot them. |
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
130
|
Posted - 2015.05.20 07:45:04 -
[21] - Quote
I can only repeat: "Any ship is invulnerable as long as you don't make a mistake".
Let's use this little gem as prove of the concept:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
As for being invulnerable by warping to 0km . . . warping to 0km could land you up to 2.5km away from your intended position. And, do you know what can happen in that last 2.5km before you reach the station?
The game mechanism:
A station is built up out of three pieces. The center which is marked with a square. You can see it when you are on grid of the station. Then we have the structure, the building itself, and last but not least an invisible sphere with the square as center. The size of the sphere is depending on the station type, we have 29 different types in game (plus 3 outposts) with different ranges. Only if you land with you ship inside this sphere you are in docking range and can dock immediately.
When you choose the square as target and warp to it or click "approach", then you won't land in the center where the visible sqaure is but your ship moves to the edge of the sphere. If you warp to the square representing the station you actually land 2500m away from the edge of docking range sphere in a random direction. This is wanted because otherwise you would warp to the center, land 2500m away from it and by doing this land in the structure. You would bump and land far outside the station
The error:
The poor pilot I have quoted doesn't understand this game mechanism. He thinks the game is broken and wants this to be fixed.
The solution:
Instead of crying for help make a bookmark which is at least 2500m away from the edge of the docking range sphere towards the station but still more than 5000m away from any kind of structures of the station. Then warp to the bm instead of the station square and you will instadock 100% of the time because you will always land within the docking range.
So all you need to "fix" this is to know how to make bookmarks.
More explanation:
The additional space between bm and structure is required because the ship also is built up with an invisible sphere around it. The size is depending on the ship type and the 2500m extra space I have added here are required so the sphere of the ship doesn't hit by accident the edge of the station structure and bumps off even when using a bigger ship like orca or rorq.
Last words:
The point with sphere around the ship and the required additional space is also unknown to a lot of capital pilots and even in the cyno docking guide you can find pictures which show that the author doesn't know this concept. So if you find a cyno less than 7700m away from the next structure you only have to wait until the cap pilot will bump off the wall while jumping in and then you can kill him.
As I said: "Any ship is invulnerable as long as you don't make a mistake". |
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