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Zeknichov
Amarr
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.09 16:19:00 -
[1]
This will increase combat by increasing the time people can run their active tanks. Amarr and Gallante are happy, NOS are slightly less effective rather then more effective... Everyone benefits except possibly caldari who well of all the races need the least favor going for them. On top of this possibly give a 20% HP increase. A 50% hp increase without changing cap was stupid.
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Novan Leon
Goat Raiders
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Posted - 2006.11.09 19:08:00 -
[2]
Sounds good to me, but I don't see anyone actually making a change like this.
We'll just have to see how CCP's plan plays out on Tranquility, so far I've not heard good things about it on SiSi.
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.09 19:33:00 -
[3]
Quiet an interesting idea to keep active tanking viable with the plate buffs.
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konkord
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.09 20:13:00 -
[4]
I disagree... what about amarr ships with NOS bonuses. They'd be indirectly nerfed.
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Sathrai
Unlimited Blade Works
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Posted - 2006.11.09 20:58:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sathrai on 09/11/2006 20:58:28
25% HP bonus (we've done this once before and it didn't pan out too badly), 25% bonus to capacitor capacity, 25% increase in recharge rate so that cap/sec remains same as it currently is.
More capacitor "soak" room indirectly weakens nos, as it increases the time it requires to take full (read: shutdown-level) effect. It also gives people more breathing space to burn cap on various things, so it helps the longevity of ships that are relentlessly cap-thirsty.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.09 21:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 09/11/2006 21:12:48
I actually like the general gist of this idea alot, with emphasis on instead. The base hull HP increase is not a terrible thing, but removing the plate buff and possibly throwing a slight across-the-board capacitor increase out is a good idea for countless reasons.
The biggest one however being that it doesn't remove any depth (the proxynerf to nos is a weak, weak one) but allows more useage of active modules - encouraging interactivity instead of increased waits in skirmishes.
I dare say, it's so simple it's downright brilliant (With the caveat that whatever remaining HP increases stay, they DO NOT APPLY TO PLATES OR EXTENDERS).
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Novan Leon
Goat Raiders
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Posted - 2006.11.09 22:31:00 -
[7]
/signed
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infraX
Caldari
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.09 22:39:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: konkord
I disagree... what about amarr ships with NOS bonuses. They'd be indirectly nerfed.
The bonuses on these ships could be boosted to compensate. I have no problem with specific NOS ships like the curse but when everyone starts using NOS on their battleships instead of guns, something is broken.
Also, while I have thought about a cap increase myself, it doesn't do anything to help larger fights last longer - and I think that is what CCP wants to do. I know +50% hp doesn't help hardly at all when you are called primary, you are still gonna pop rapidly but more cap/better recharge wouldn't help yout at all.
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.09 22:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: infraX
Originally by: konkord
I disagree... what about amarr ships with NOS bonuses. They'd be indirectly nerfed.
The bonuses on these ships could be boosted to compensate. I have no problem with specific NOS ships like the curse but when everyone starts using NOS on their battleships instead of guns, something is broken.
Also, while I have thought about a cap increase myself, it doesn't do anything to help larger fights last longer - and I think that is what CCP wants to do. I know +50% hp doesn't help hardly at all when you are called primary, you are still gonna pop rapidly but more cap/better recharge wouldn't help yout at all.
The curse NEEDS to be nerfed a bit. MWDing at 1500m/sec+ at 35km while nossing everything in sight is just stupid. Indirect nerf? A direct nerf is just fine.
Because I said so...
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Sathrai
Unlimited Blade Works
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Posted - 2006.11.09 23:19:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sathrai on 09/11/2006 23:19:18
Originally by: infraX
Also, while I have thought about a cap increase myself, it doesn't do anything to help larger fights last longer - and I think that is what CCP wants to do. I know +50% hp doesn't help hardly at all when you are called primary, you are still gonna pop rapidly but more cap/better recharge wouldn't help yout at all.
Skirmishes have absolutely no need to last longer than they currently do; small group EVE fights between relatively equal parties already are at something of a sweet spot in terms of firepower to survivability. The main complaint seems to be fleet fights, and for that they need to go about ways of making focused fire produce diminishing returns, otherwise people are just going to keep bringing bigger big-gun blobs in there to ensure they get their sub-5-second kills. No amount of HP increasing will fix that - not without reducing EVE combat to some "target, f1-f8, go get a sandwich over the next five minutes" EQ-style abomination, anyways.
If they want to make fights last longer, they're going about this very much the wrong way.
As it currently stands, this +50% HP thing seems well situated to kidneypunch small skirmish gang PvP, which most people will probably agree is the most enjoyable style of PvP. It changes nothing of note in fleets and it looks set to degrade roving sweep groups - so what's it really achieving? Who is it honestly benefitting? Blockade runners, I suppose. Can't really think of too many others. 
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Novan Leon
Goat Raiders
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Posted - 2006.11.10 14:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sathrai
Skirmishes have absolutely no need to last longer than they currently do; small group EVE fights between relatively equal parties already are at something of a sweet spot in terms of firepower to survivability. The main complaint seems to be fleet fights, and for that they need to go about ways of making focused fire produce diminishing returns, otherwise people are just going to keep bringing bigger big-gun blobs in there to ensure they get their sub-5-second kills. No amount of HP increasing will fix that - not without reducing EVE combat to some "target, f1-f8, go get a sandwich over the next five minutes" EQ-style abomination, anyways.
If they want to make fights last longer, they're going about this very much the wrong way.
As it currently stands, this +50% HP thing seems well situated to kidneypunch small skirmish gang PvP, which most people will probably agree is the most enjoyable style of PvP. It changes nothing of note in fleets and it looks set to degrade roving sweep groups - so what's it really achieving? Who is it honestly benefitting? Blockade runners, I suppose. Can't really think of too many others.
You're 100% right.
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konkord
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.10 18:47:00 -
[12]
I think idealy, increase the hull HP by 100% - with damage controls what they are atm people can choose to make the most of that benefit as they would. Leave shield/armor HP as they stand. Instead, (after careful thinking) Increase capacitor recharge/capacity and also increase NOS ROF.
This will offer a few things. The 'omgimabouttodieiminstructure' feeling will be extended thus increasing playability and enjoyment. It will extend battles by a varying degree dependant on what is important to the pilot; dot hey fit a dmg control unit or not. it indirectly influences combat length, and ships becoming more dependant on the longevity of their tanks, but moreso the quality of their resists. When you get to stage structure, you'd have to do something pretty bloody amazing to pull it back, that said, you'd have the capacity and recharge rate to actually pull it off. I think this way would increase the 'funnage' of pvp, making engagements longer, and more nailbitery.
Yes, it is a word.
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.10 18:51:00 -
[13]
No thank you, instead of fights that last longer you get fights that last forever...
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Segmentor
Hunters Agency
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.10 18:55:00 -
[14]
I just want the **** 50% hp and 25% plate bonus to go away. Cap booster fights and enormous passive tanks are NOT fun.
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konkord
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.10 19:03:00 -
[15]
Arent they?
personally i find it sometimes frustrating that i've either killed or been killed without even 1 reload of ammo. As long as the tanks dont get to a degree that 1v1 theres a position that DPS from 1 BC cant out damage the tank of another similarly setup BC then i think all is good.
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