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Nerfing NOS without actually nerfing it.

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Ruato Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2006.11.10 04:58:00 - [1] Well, heres quick idea: 1. Increase NOS powergrid use by 300% 2. Give some ships (dominix for example) NOS related role bonus (-75% NOS powergrid usage) Result: - Not every ship would be capable running heavy NOS setups. - NOS would not be completely gutted (if you want to use it, buy ship thats designed for it) --- *Get rid of those bleeping secure containers. bleep!*
Mr Ninjaface Minmatar Shurekin INC	Posted - 2006.11.10 05:00:00 - [2] Edited by: Mr Ninjaface on 10/11/2006 05:00:33 Your thread should be called. Nerf nos with out nerfing the nos dominix If anything Amarr should get the nos role they live on cap. MY thoughts on Kali
Luric Vizjier The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.10 05:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Ruato Well, heres quick idea: 2. Give some ships (dominix for example) NOS related role bonus (-75% NOS powergrid usage) This is a joke right? -----------------------------------------------
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.11.10 05:51:00 - [4] Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 10/11/2006 05:51:06 Originally by: Luric Vizjier This is a joke right? Well the same basic idea seemed to work with the ECM ships.
Ruato Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2006.11.10 06:13:00 - [5] Reason i posted this is because all other threads basically aim for complete gutting of NOS across the board. Most of the players seem to want only viable tactic to be throw as much pure damage on your ship as possible and other tactics should not be competitive. Games (including EVE combat) need variety. If all damage setups become only option, eve will be worse game than it currently is. People whine about nos (that it does not have any real counters (it has, for example staying out of range), yet they still want all damage setups to have absolutely no counters. --- *Get rid of those bleeping secure containers. bleep!*
Ruato Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2006.11.10 06:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Luric Vizjier This is a joke right? No its not a joke. --- *Get rid of those bleeping secure containers. bleep!*
Ruato Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2006.11.10 06:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Mr Ninjaface Edited by: Mr Ninjaface on 10/11/2006 05:00:33 Your thread should be called. Nerf nos with out nerfing the nos dominix If anything Amarr should get the nos role they live on cap. Domi was just an example. I said "SHIPS" not SHIP, so domi would not be only nos capable ship out there. --- *Get rid of those bleeping secure containers. bleep!*
Ed Gein Lazy Town	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:12:00 - [8] The primary reason Nos and ECM are deemed over powered is because with a few million skillpoints a noob in a BS can gut a vertern's bs no problem. The only thing this would do is force the noobs to fly specific ships.
Jebidus Skari Amarr KTHNXDIE	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Ruato (it has, for example staying out of range) Screw Blaster, Pulse Laser and Autocannon boats I guess and every ship should have a faction warp disruptor? Who needs to be worried about NOS when you can just fly off...
Ruato Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2006.11.10 08:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Jebidus Skari Originally by: Ruato (it has, for example staying out of range) Screw Blaster, Pulse Laser and Autocannon boats I guess and every ship should have a faction warp disruptor? Who needs to be worried about NOS when you can just fly off... People want counter for NOS. But dear god if theres counter for all damage blaster ships (NOS). Let there be crying Game combat should be bit more varied than "scramble, mwd into blaster range and shoot." --- *Get rid of those bleeping secure containers. bleep!*

infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.10 08:15:00 - [11] Edited by: infraX on 10/11/2006 08:16:01 That's not the issue with NOS. This issue is, it is more effective to NOS your target down and kill them off slowly than to spunk all your cap and try and kill them quickly. Just can't be done. It makes fitting a full rack of guns/launchers suicide because the NOS ship will prevail. FFS, get on sisi, test it a bit and learn what you are talking about or just stfu.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.10 08:35:00 - [12] I think the problem with NOS is that the only counter is another NOS. Introducing a lowslot module such as "powercore shielding" providing say 50% 'resistance' to NOS would be a suitable counter IMO and in line with other types of attacks.
Ruato Gallente Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Malachon Draco I think the problem with NOS is that the only counter is another NOS. Introducing a lowslot module such as "powercore shielding" providing say 50% 'resistance' to NOS would be a suitable counter IMO and in line with other types of attacks. Actually theres 2, another NOS and range. But anyways... Module to shield from powerdrain would be lot better way to deal with this than blanket nerf. --- *Get rid of those bleeping secure containers. bleep!*
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:48:00 - [14] I have a better idea. Cut nos range in HALF. Put bonuses on ships made to use nos, so that they get the same range they are now. A unspecced ship using nos should not out range a warp scram!
MrRx7 Amarr Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.11.10 10:25:00 - [15] LOL, there are only 3 ships in the game that should get that bonus then Curse Pilgrim and the faction battleships Bhaalgorn
Adoran Wa'alle Caldari 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.10 11:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Ruato Well, heres quick idea: 1. Increase NOS powergrid use by 300% 2. Give some ships (dominix for example) NOS related role bonus (-75% NOS powergrid usage) Result: - Not every ship would be capable running heavy NOS setups. - NOS would not be completely gutted (if you want to use it, buy ship thats designed for it) While it's a sound idea, I don't think it'll work. Here's why: As it is on SiSi now, NOS = win. If NOS can only be used on specialized ships, there'd be a lot less diversity in PvP, as everyone will be flying the nos-capable ships. ----------------------------------- Rawr. awrarawr!
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:24:00 - [17] I like the idea of a low slot power core shield. Nos should also be subject to tracking rules - a fast ship should be able to 'outmaneuver' a large nos. Ships with smaller signatures should also be harder for large nos to drain, so they don't have the ability to kill a frigate's cap with a single pulse. Also the lower the target ship's cap is the harder it should be to drain. I don't think there should be a 'cut-off' point but more of an exponential curve similar to a capacitor discharge curve (or even a linear relationship would be better than the current model). This would make cap-draining effective whilst the target had plenty of cap, but as the ship is drained it gets progressively harder to 'squeeze' the cap dry: in fact it gets to a point where it costs you more energy to extract the energy than you get from the target, with the point dependent on skill level in using the nos and the type of nos (named / officer mods more effective).
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:31:00 - [18] If you want to nerf nos without 'nerfing it, make a mod that can counteract it somewhat. Last night I mentioned that cap batteries should be immune to NOS, I still think that'd be a good idea. If you want some NOS immunity, you fit one, still get better recharge than without one, but not as much as a cap charger(in most cases), but in return, people can't NOS you dry. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Sir Drake	Posted - 2006.11.10 14:17:00 - [19] I like the idea of nerfing NOS to a point where they are only usefull with certain ships (like the curse etc). Kali will make cap even more important than it is now. So from my pov this will lead to an even more excessive use of NOS in ship setups. Is this what you want ccp? But what can be done to make them less usefull? As much as i like the idea of hardened cap batteries, i would rather want the NOS to have tracking and hit related cap transfer. Result: NOS would stop being a quasi guarantee for killing cap.
Santa Anna	Posted - 2006.11.10 14:30:00 - [20] How about a "power feedback" mod you can activate when nossed which causes your attacker's cap to empty and his Nos's to deactivate? It'd certainly introduce a bit of risk into using Nos over conventional weapons.

Ruze No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:10:00 - [21] Is it just me, or should cap-needy ships, such as the Amarr and some Gallente craft, get default bonuses AGAINST nos? Caldari, theoretically the best with ECM, are also the most resistant against it. They even have ships designed specifically for ECM. Amarr, theoretically the best with cap (most dependent, at least), should also be the most resistant to being nos'd, by default. They should also have more ships that have bonuses toward Nos/Neut use. Nos needs to be readdressed as an EW tool. Ships need to have default stats against it. It needs to have a countermodule (mid and low), and it needs to be tuned for racial EW. Genesis Project
Sir Drake	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Santa Anna How about a "power feedback" mod you can activate when nossed which causes your attacker's cap to empty and his Nos's to deactivate? It'd certainly introduce a bit of risk into using Nos over conventional weapons. I like that idea! Sounds pretty nasty
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Ruato Originally by: Jebidus Skari Originally by: Ruato (it has, for example staying out of range) Screw Blaster, Pulse Laser and Autocannon boats I guess and every ship should have a faction warp disruptor? Who needs to be worried about NOS when you can just fly off... People want counter for NOS. But dear god if theres counter for all damage blaster ships (NOS). Let there be crying Game combat should be bit more varied than "scramble, mwd into blaster range and shoot." The main counter is not to let them get into range. Its wrong that a few nos can totally shut down anything that requires cap, you just want your nos/domi to be saved from a nos nerf. ---------------------
DDemon The Order of Chivalry	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:49:00 - [24] How about a skill that reduces NOS drained from you with 10% per level?
Sally Caldari R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.12 06:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Sir Drake I like the idea of nerfing NOS to a point where they are only usefull with certain ships (like the curse etc). K So, you basically whant to destroy a whole playstyle just becouse you dont like it? Hope CCP is not so stupid. -- Stories: #1 --
Sir Drake	Posted - 2006.11.12 08:35:00 - [26] Originally by: Sally So, you basically whant to destroy a whole playstyle just becouse you dont like it? Hope CCP is not so stupid. CCP destroys playstyles because they dont like them with every patch. eg ECM in Kali, npc spawn rates in castor, cruise missiles kestrels in castor etc etc very long list. I dont say change was to the bad but it certainly kicked someones playstyle out of the window. Nos is very common in most pvp setup pre-kali and post-kali it will be fitted even more often just to be able to kill someones tank befor running out of ammo.
tarin adur	Posted - 2006.11.12 10:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Malachon Draco I think the problem with NOS is that the only counter is another NOS. Introducing a lowslot module such as "powercore shielding" providing say 50% 'resistance' to NOS would be a suitable counter IMO and in line with other types of attacks. low slot module? gallente and amarr,the ones that Nos will affect the most need those slots to tank and you want to make us waste another one? hell no make that a rig and all will be happy
Aphotic Raven	Posted - 2006.11.12 12:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Ruze Is it just me, or should cap-needy ships, such as the Amarr and some Gallente craft, get default bonuses AGAINST nos? Caldari, theoretically the best with ECM, are also the most resistant against it. They even have ships designed specifically for ECM. Amarr, theoretically the best with cap (most dependent, at least), should also be the most resistant to being nos'd, by default. They should also have more ships that have bonuses toward Nos/Neut use. Nos needs to be readdressed as an EW tool. Ships need to have default stats against it. It needs to have a countermodule (mid and low), and it needs to be tuned for racial EW. This is a wise are powerful man. Listen to his words of wisdom. He balances nos and nerfs caldari, and this is truelly a great thing. Although labelling it as EW will just give it over to caldari to play with... and lets not do that.... ever. The amarr should get bonus's and so should the gallente, we need it almost as badly as the amarr, although few seem to recognize this.
Takahashi Arran Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.11.12 14:19:00 - [29] Edited by: Takahashi Arran on 12/11/2006 14:20:17 Originally by: Ruze Is it just me, or should cap-needy ships, such as the Amarr and some Gallente craft, get default bonuses AGAINST nos? Caldari, theoretically the best with ECM, are also the most resistant against it. They even have ships designed specifically for ECM. Amarr, theoretically the best with cap (most dependent, at least), should also be the most resistant to being nos'd, by default. They should also have more ships that have bonuses toward Nos/Neut use. Nos needs to be readdressed as an EW tool. Ships need to have default stats against it. It needs to have a countermodule (mid and low), and it needs to be tuned for racial EW. /signed but also give nos a signature radius, falloff and optimal . A large gun is only effective against large ships. it should be the same for a large nos. currently on sis NOS is the new ECM. It should be readdressed.
Allantia Caldari FW Inc	Posted - 2006.11.12 16:04:00 - [30] NOS needs a serious nerf across the board IMHO. What other offensive weapon in the game hits 100% of the time, always with 100% effectiveness and with no way to counter it (other than fitting your own NOS)? NOS should be treated more like a turret I would think - give it an optimal range, falloff range, tracking speed, take the target's sig radius into account, and etc.



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