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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
230
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:13:59 -
[31] - Quote
corbexx wrote:HTC NecoSino wrote: He has to ask the goons and will get back to you once he has their consensus.
ah that's easy you just tell me which would cause you the most tears, then assume that ;)
I just noticed that the X's in Corbexx form like 4 little triangle pyramids on their sides.
Illumittani confirmed.
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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Forestwalker
POS Party Low-Class
0
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:15:50 -
[32] - Quote
Is there any information as to which structures will be able to deploy in whspace? At this point that is the biggest question I think most have. As I didn't see anything that shows where you can deploy them other than weapons. |

Ariete
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
44
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:23:52 -
[33] - Quote
Forestwalker wrote:Is there any information as to which structures will be able to deploy in whspace? At this point that is the biggest question I think most have. As I didn't see anything that shows where you can deploy them other than weapons.
We know you will be able to use Citadels in wormhole space. The devs have said they want wormhole space to be able to use all of them, but with restrictions
So CSM IX ????
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Forestwalker
POS Party Low-Class
0
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:30:10 -
[34] - Quote
Quote:We know you will be able to use Citadels in wormhole space. The devs have said they want wormhole space to be able to use all of them, but with restrictions
its the with restrictions undefined that is troublesome at best.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
982
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:35:32 -
[35] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Where does my loot magically go when my station thingy gets destroyed? That's null I really want to know.
Corbexx - do you want totally destructible structures or magic loot storage? We really need to know where you stand on this.
ideally i'd want totally destroyable one
You want them all to be destructable or you want one of them to be destructable?
When they get destroyed do you want loots or do you want space magic for asset protection? |

Newt BlackCompany
BlackCompany Personal Corp
44
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:43:49 -
[36] - Quote
I don't like these structures.
1. They are ugly, hopefully they will fix that before they are released. 2. There is no pos shield. I like my pos shield. 3. Without a pos shield, I can't use cargo containers for spare storage (perhaps changed recently anyway?) 4. The docking effect means everyone knows what ships I have here. 5. What happens if I have 250 shuttles? or bombers? Can I dock them all, or am I limited to only docking 10-20 ships? 6. Can people use ship scanners on my docked ships to find the blingy ones before attacking my pos?
Overall, I'm seriously underwhelmed. The main problem with pos's is the need for starbase config roles to do anything with the pos, all the rest of this seems like change for the sake of change, not to fix anything.
Did I mention the lack of a pos shield? I hate that.
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corbexx
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1338
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:57:08 -
[37] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:corbexx wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Where does my loot magically go when my station thingy gets destroyed? That's null I really want to know.
Corbexx - do you want totally destructible structures or magic loot storage? We really need to know where you stand on this.
ideally i'd want totally destroyable one You want them all to be destructable or you want one of them to be destructable? When they get destroyed do you want loots or do you want space magic for asset protection?
tell you what why don't you tell me what you want and why?
Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
983
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 20:28:11 -
[38] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:corbexx wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Where does my loot magically go when my station thingy gets destroyed? That's null I really want to know.
Corbexx - do you want totally destructible structures or magic loot storage? We really need to know where you stand on this.
ideally i'd want totally destroyable one You want them all to be destructable or you want one of them to be destructable? When they get destroyed do you want loots or do you want space magic for asset protection? tell you what why don't you tell me what you want and why?
I want destructable so I can destroy it. I want loot because loot is good.
EDIT: I want on record what you want so I can compare what you say here and now to what gets put in future CSM minutes.
What do you want and why? |

Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
73
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 21:26:15 -
[39] - Quote
If the baseline for defenses is going to be nullsec behavior, how can we ensure that this system won't be overpowering in wh space? Seems like some of these would be incredibly hard to overcome in lower tier wormholes. Hell, even in c5s. |

Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1325
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 21:33:33 -
[40] - Quote
Well here is the main question. Assuming that these things will be able to defend themselves vs a troll ceptor....
Do we need the timezone protection mechanic for w space? This isn't a issue of space or use as wspace isn't sov.
I understand the need for it in nullsec. I am not sold of the need for it in wspace. It would be a bit more brutal and more timezone coverage would be needed. But knowing the structures can put up at least some defense, i wonder if its needed.
Yaay!!!!
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calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
306
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 22:30:06 -
[41] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Well here is the main question. Assuming that these things will be able to defend themselves vs a troll ceptor....
Do we need the timezone protection mechanic for w space? This isn't a issue of space or use as wspace isn't sov.
I understand the need for it in nullsec. I am not sold of the need for it in wspace. It would be a bit more brutal and more timezone coverage would be needed. But knowing the structures can put up at least some defense, i wonder if its needed.
I'm going to hold off on any speculative judgement atm.
Imo I hope they keep it and according to the quote earlier it will naturally be 6-8 hours or so. I think the ability to deliberatly attack out of the defenders tz (aswell as time the rf timer to do the same) is bad gameplay
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1325
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 23:04:16 -
[42] - Quote
calaretu wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Well here is the main question. Assuming that these things will be able to defend themselves vs a troll ceptor....
Do we need the timezone protection mechanic for w space? This isn't a issue of space or use as wspace isn't sov.
I understand the need for it in nullsec. I am not sold of the need for it in wspace. It would be a bit more brutal and more timezone coverage would be needed. But knowing the structures can put up at least some defense, i wonder if its needed.
I'm going to hold off on any speculative judgement atm. Imo I hope they keep it and according to the quote earlier it will naturally be 6-8 hours or so. I think the ability to deliberatly attack out of the defenders tz (aswell as time the rf timer to do the same) is bad gameplay
If they follow so, yea would probably be ok. Long as it doesn't reduce down to some 2 hour window (longer timespans), should be ok (we don't get the upgrades that null does, etc etc).
We'd definitely need some more detailed mechanic on how the structures Actually function when a person moores/docks/whatever with it. Also how to tell who's home and who is not.
Yaay!!!!
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Alundil
Isogen 5
946
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 00:42:29 -
[43] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:
We'd definitely need some more detailed mechanic on how the structures Actually function when a person moores/docks/whatever with it. Also how to tell who's home and who is not.
This is one of the more important aspects of this change. This and what happens to loot in wspace when one of the new structures is destroyed.
I'm right behind you
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Humang
Awakened Ones
96
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 01:36:53 -
[44] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Some concerns i have.
the fact you can anchor them anywhere.
docking/link games
Since they could be anywhere how will you find them? Since your 1st and 3rd point are on the same thing, I'll skip to the 2nd.
For docking games, could something like WH polarization timers be brought in? Have a rule tied to the invulnerability link that will replace POS force-fields where it can only be applied/removed a set number of times
Applies a cool-down stopping you from being invulnerable/docking for a small period?
Might need to be tied to the ship, not the player.
Now, for structure being anchorable anywhere: It would stop corps from being able to lock out a system simply by having a small poss offline at every moon.
Would require that a corp/alliance actually put effort into stopping an attacker from setting up a staging point.
Being able to find them: Not sure about having a beacon to warp to in the overview or in the system scanner (like anoms) at all times
Maybe only have the beacon active during the structures reinforcement periods?
Maybe have a structure fitting like D-scan inhibitors that can mask the beacon, but are really easy to scan with probes and show up on d-scan themselves?
But all up I'm looking forward to it all, and share the same concerns about "will we be able to see how many people are docked?"
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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
100
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 03:17:41 -
[45] - Quote
CCP is problably going to say **** it & leave old pos in w-space just cause. |

Winthorp
3497
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 04:59:11 -
[46] - Quote
We need to be able to see who is docked/moored on dscan with ship type and then when on grid have the same pilot info we have now.
In reverse the same intel needs to be available to those that are docked/moored, they should still have the same dscan functionality they have now.
The why of this is for several reasons but mostly if you lack this information in both sides docked or a visitor then you will think empty system and no interations between both of those parties will occur.
I also have concerns about the size of this docking/mooring area of safety. If this area of safety is less then the current size of a pos force field it will lead to **** caging this area of effect with you pos guns tanked i feel with a small sized fleet at your door you could be trapped in pretty easilly. If it is a large area of affect this will be harder to achieve.
People will inevitably try to game an ill thought out system like this so things like this need to be thought about now.
I do look forward to having my pos at the sun though.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
109
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 05:42:49 -
[47] - Quote
AUTZ not looking forward to being stuck on over watch duties pretty much there entire game time.
I notice there's industry and military values that can change windows and things, we dont have these in wspace, how will this be calculated for w space?
will people now be forced to do home sites in order to get some kind of index value or is there some other method?
the new structures are interesting, but is probably going to lead to people having bow head alts with all there ships inside, and always logging off in capitals, and minimising asset risk by basicly not having much of anything in there wh.
docking would be nice because that at least fixes assembling t3's. some basic station services like repairs would also be nice + market or what ever.(probably doubtful)
not to fused about the dscan thing, but I do like the pos bubble to give you some room to load grid/space safetly so you dont get blapped by 100 tornado's or something.
also loading grid etc is always an issue for az/nz because of server lag. |

GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
109
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 06:01:27 -
[48] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:corbexx wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Where does my loot magically go when my station thingy gets destroyed? That's null I really want to know.
Corbexx - do you want totally destructible structures or magic loot storage? We really need to know where you stand on this.
ideally i'd want totally destroyable one You want them all to be destructable or you want one of them to be destructable? When they get destroyed do you want loots or do you want space magic for asset protection?
Because this is the way forward for every one in the game, what ever option that's picked will have to accommodate HS, LS, NPC null and Null sec proper as well as WH space.
So believe it or not regardless of how we feel hes going to have to co ordinate with all the other people, In the rest of space.
Null players or even LS / HS corps wardeccing and headshoting Hostiles structures with 1000 man blobs (maybe more when brain in a box kicks in) while fun for the aggressor in the short term, wont be conducive to either in game subs or overall content in the long term because you just killed all there caps/ships they have nothing to shoot you with any more so back to lvl4's in hs for them and back to ship spinning for you.
These are some of the things that will have to be balanced out for all areas of space. They could possibly make special conditions for wspace and structures, I dont want that tho because the games already got enough complexity to worry about than to be running around making special use cases and adding further complexity. |

Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
436
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 06:20:46 -
[49] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:We need to be able to see who is docked/moored on dscan with ship type and then when on grid have the same pilot info we have now.
In reverse the same intel needs to be available to those that are docked/moored, they should still have the same dscan functionality they have now.
The why of this is for several reasons but mostly if you lack this information in both sides docked or a visitor then you will think empty system and no interations between both of those parties will occur.
This is definitely the primary problem with the proposed approach. With no Local (and none wanted, thank you) the mechanisms that we currently have are great. They reward effort but do not require probing or reveal.
Occam's razor solution: No docking in W-space, only mooring (occupied ships) and storage (unoccupied ships) and all moored ships show up on d-scan.
Yes, other solutions like structure scans would work but it needs to be doable cloaked, which currently nothing else is.
I also agree with those who want structures moon-locked, not for defensive purposes but for offensive ones. Defense of you having to actually find it is sufficient - having it on permascan like an Anom is too easy IMO. At least on moons you have to hunt the right moon but can still do so easily and stealthily. It provides both attacker and defender with benefits.
The proposed model is all for the defender, hiding away in some deadspace pocket.
With this model, the attacker has to spend a crazy long time hunting and pecking until they find something. After about the third system of that the scout is going to say "F* this" and go back to their home system and do something else. People need to be able to be found, and without giving away your presence every time.
But hey, as long as it works for the sov null guys, right?
Author of Interstellar Privateer
Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
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calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
306
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 06:25:05 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:thebringer wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:When do we get some news on these new structures and how or if they will interact in wormhole space? We want most of those structures to be available in W-space, but with some special restrictions if need be. Bringing full docking into wh space will change the place entirely, one of the reasons to live there is to avoid dumb docking games and how intel gathering is important (finding poses, seeing what in them players/ships/structures). I would rather we stay with the current pos system (at least for wormholes) than this stupid capture the flag rubbish and no loot drops from structures. But you will do it anyway because who cares about wormholers... Just please dont break it too badly. We're considering letting you scan who is docked inside these structures. Also yes docking games suck, so do force field games. We're accepting input on how we can setup the docking / invuln link to improve this, for all of space not just WH. source
~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
.ORLY is recruiting
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
153
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 07:24:29 -
[51] - Quote
Adriana Nolen wrote:CCP is problably going to say **** it & leave old pos in w-space just cause.
At some point POS will go the way of the dodo just because of the amount of problems and bugs the POScode produces.
Here are the important questions I came up with after reading:
Shilalasar wrote:Thanks for putting devblogs about this important issue out long before making final designdecisions. Some questions I came up with:
1.Will the structures have a predefined undock? Will you be able to bump ships within the invullinked area? What ranges are you plaining for the linked areas? 2,5 like docking or 20 like a FF? Will it work like the invultimer upon undocking so the player can decide when to break it or will you be autolinked if within range like a FF now?
2.Unless you are able to bring capitals (c1-4 or highsec, where most of the small corps live) or completely stupid numbers the timeinvestement to RF a well defended (resi-,****- or deathstar) is 2-5 hours. This is more to stop people from even thinking about it than actual defense. Will the entosistime be along the same numbers, the nullnumbers so far suggest no. The current POSdefenses and mechanics are hugely imbalanced towrds the defender in smaller conflics. But this is also the reason why smaller groups, especially in lowend WHs, can survive and have fun without getting facerolled just because they are there (like in sov-nullsec).
3.T2 entosis has 250 km range so structureweapons and ewar have to have a range higher than that to be of any use. That just sounds wrong. I could also entosis from the undock of next structure over.
4.Placing them everywhere would include inside of static DED pockets.
5.What will be the cynorestrictions near structures? None like stations or far away like a POS?
6.If you don-¦t limit them to number of moons how do you plan on keeping them on a handable level? I can see 200+ of those strucs in jita just because we can. And there is no UI that works well on those numbers. Most Whs of larger corps have already 50+ towers in system.
7.Scanning the structures equals uncloaking, getting spotted and being blabbed by structureguns. Are scanners that work while cloaked a possibility?
8.Drones as weapons, I do not like. Not just because I hate the current drones everywhere meta but because I think a station should not launch some small throwaway drones to defend but starships.
9.Will the citadels have captain-¦s quarters?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5741499#post5741499
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Kynric
Sky Fighters
305
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 16:37:11 -
[52] - Quote
The new structures are very different. Perhaps instead of evaluating them relative to how they perform in evictions we should look at them in terms of what produces more ships moving in space. Ships moving in space is content every day while evictions are rare and generally not very fun events. With that standard it seems like there will be more ships in space with this plan. The asset protection feature will both make for ships shuffling about picking up goods and give a measure of perceived safety that might help grow the population in our neighborhood. For me at least it would also save me the 20 minutes at the end of my night when I log in the carrier and orca alts and scoop every last valuable/ship into them followed by a similar 20 minutes at the start of my night when theybunloadvthe goods. Skipping that would give me more time to fly in space which is content for all compared to the logged off alts which are content for nobody. The logoff trick was neccessary for both asset protection as if the tower were reinforced the cha would be sealed and to assure that neccessary siege items are still accessible in the event of a suprise siege. The thought of losing those daily tasks is a happy one. |

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
986
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 17:06:38 -
[53] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:corbexx wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:corbexx wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Where does my loot magically go when my station thingy gets destroyed? That's null I really want to know.
Corbexx - do you want totally destructible structures or magic loot storage? We really need to know where you stand on this.
ideally i'd want totally destroyable one You want them all to be destructable or you want one of them to be destructable? When they get destroyed do you want loots or do you want space magic for asset protection? tell you what why don't you tell me what you want and why? I want destructable so I can destroy it. I want loot because loot is good. EDIT: I want on record what you want so I can compare what you say here and now to what gets put in future CSM minutes. What do you want and why?
It only took me 1 minute to answer when you asked me directly. It's been almost 24 hours since I asked you. |

Alundil
Isogen 5
947
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 19:10:46 -
[54] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:It only took me 1 minute to answer when you asked me directly. It's been almost 24 hours since I asked you.
At a certain point, forum autism is best ignored. You are being, ever so slightly, ridiculous. But it's the intarwebz, so carry on I guess.
I'm right behind you
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Oriki Ituin
Antex Solutions
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 20:43:51 -
[55] - Quote
I'd quite like to see a 'ransom' feature built into the new structures. Something along the following lines:
1) Corporation that reinforces a structure [at both Reinforced 1 and Reinforced 2] can apply a ransom to the structure. 2) Owning corporation can pay the ransom, which returns the structure to online. 3) The ransom transaction would be handled by game code.
If the new structures can be scanned, then both corporations will know a suitable ransom value.
However, if you still want to kill the structure for revenge, eviction etc there would be no difference to what we know so far. |

slam34
Defiance LLC Praetorian Directorate
12
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 21:31:40 -
[56] - Quote
But let's get back to this gem:
"We are also thinking of having them visible and directly warpable from the on-board scanner to preserve Wormhole space gameplay.
How in holy hell does that "preserve Wormhole Space Gameplay" ?
-áPeople are people. No matter what country, culture, religion, political party, business or communtiy you encounter in your travels, you will never find a shortage of people who will make it their personal mission in life to tell you how to live yours.
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Forestwalker
POS Party Low-Class
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 16:36:18 -
[57] - Quote
I think the coding for warping to any structure in wh space if added to probe scanner is only warpable by the corp that deployed it every other corp alliance what have you should have to combat scan it out. |

Ilaister
Absolutely Certain
193
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 17:47:22 -
[58] - Quote
slam34 wrote:But let's get back to this gem:
"We are also thinking of having them visible and directly warpable from the on-board scanner to preserve Wormhole space gameplay.
How in holy hell does that "preserve Wormhole Space Gameplay" ?
Asked and answered previously, but a question for you that might answer your own.
Where do you currently point your dscan to find a POS? |

Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
472
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 04:38:45 -
[59] - Quote
so reading is pretty hard and i usually only forum browse while i am at work and my attention is split.
so i have one very important question, that need a simple answer. (don't wall of text me bro)
Will any of these changes make it easier to kick out those inactive tards who log in once a week to farm and otherwise provide 0 Content?
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Winthorp
3504
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 05:53:08 -
[60] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:so reading is pretty hard and i usually only forum browse while i am at work and my attention is split.
so i have one very important question, that need a simple answer. (don't wall of text me bro)
Will any of these changes make it easier to kick out those inactive tards who log in once a week to farm and otherwise provide 0 Content?
Honestly no i think it will be harder to evict them.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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